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edl and patriiotism
Topic Started: Dec 19 2010, 03:17 PM (303 Views)
rikjd
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just on another forum and the EDL came up, one of the statements was should the EDL be considered patriotic if they are just anti-muslim, thoughts please?
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roger_bates
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The EDL is not anti muslim
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If you were patriotic and understood what Islam really is, then you would want to protect your country from Islam.

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what forum was this you speak of ?

I agree with we-are-the-british
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BaconBreakfast
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I'm not "anti-Muslim", as there are many decent people out there who were unfortunately brought up into the Islamic cult. I'm vehemently anti-Islam, for many reasons, not least that everything about it flies in the face of England and its noble values. Being a patriot, EDL is just one patriotic organisation that I support.
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rikjd
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boudicca
Dec 19 2010, 03:22 PM
what forum was this you speak of ?

I agree with we-are-the-british
the hunting life, ye i tried to put across this but its difficult to do when you get a lot of comments along the lines eastern europeans are destroying the country as well so you cant pick and choose who you protest against is if your patriotic you should be against everything that is bad for the country etc etc :-/
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roger_bates
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Personally I don't think nationalism is the right tool to fight islamic extremism with as it is an issue which transends national boundaries.
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rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 03:17 PM
just on another forum and the EDL came up, one of the statements was should the EDL be considered patriotic if they are just anti-muslim, thoughts please?
you have not rectified/corrected your OP with the anti-muslim line,why?and also you have not mentioned/acknowledged that you have made a mistake in typing it.could i ask why?

keep the faith

paxi :)
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BaconBreakfast
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roger_bates
Dec 19 2010, 03:29 PM
Personally I don't think nationalism is the right tool to fight islamic extremism with as it is an issue which transends national boundaries.
Roger, can you elaborate on that point a bit more? Cheers
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rikjd
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paxi christi
Dec 19 2010, 03:40 PM
rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 03:17 PM
just on another forum and the EDL came up, one of the statements was should the EDL be considered patriotic if they are just anti-muslim, thoughts please?
you have not rectified/corrected your OP with the anti-muslim line,why?and also you have not mentioned/acknowledged that you have made a mistake in typing it.could i ask why?

keep the faith

paxi :)
muslims are the religous followers of islam, so i feel my OP was correct. please enlighten me as to why it was wrong as im pretty new to all this and learning every day :$
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rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 03:51 PM
paxi christi
Dec 19 2010, 03:40 PM
rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 03:17 PM
just on another forum and the EDL came up, one of the statements was should the EDL be considered patriotic if they are just anti-muslim, thoughts please?
you have not rectified/corrected your OP with the anti-muslim line,why?and also you have not mentioned/acknowledged that you have made a mistake in typing it.could i ask why?

keep the faith

paxi :)
muslims are the religous followers of islam, so i feel my OP was correct. please enlighten me as to why it was wrong as im pretty new to all this and learning every day :$
the EDL isnt anti-muslem at all.ITS ANTI SHARIA/ISLAMISM.
i dont hate muslems i hate and dispise islam.

keep the faith

paxi :)

the first peole who suffer from the devil practising barbarick teachings are moslems them selves.islam is the creed of the devil himself.
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roger_bates
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BaconBreakfast
Dec 19 2010, 03:45 PM
roger_bates
Dec 19 2010, 03:29 PM
Personally I don't think nationalism is the right tool to fight islamic extremism with as it is an issue which transends national boundaries.
Roger, can you elaborate on that point a bit more? Cheers
Yes there's a couple of issues.

1.Islamic extremism is an issue facing many countries in the world. Islamification specifically threatens every country in the west. English nationalism is traditionally coupled with hatred of other countries (france germany etc) and is a dividing force where as we need to be united with our allies in europe. I do not believe that nationalism will ever defeat islam, it is a powerful ideology spanning many countries.

2. "English" is seen as white. Many black and asian people describe themselves as "british". Many black and (non muslim) asian people share the anti islam views but the title of the group is a barrier.

3. From an outsiders point of view waving england flags and singing enerland is meaningless. I've stood from the outside of a demo and watched people's perlexed faces who had no idea what the demo was all about. As there was no football match on they assumed it was bnp and this was confiremd by the uaf telling them. I don't know any other protest issue where people would wave england flags. Can you imagine waving an england flag a demo to stop a hospital closure? It would be meaningless. Even the name "english defence league" says nothing about what the group is about. The only way people find out is trhough the media, which of course is out of our hands. So they end up getting told its a far right bnp off shoot and the damage is done. Marketing is very important and the name is probably the key part.

4. Nationalism often goes hand in hand with racism and facsism whether we like it or not. Yes I think thats nonsense and yes we should be able to be partiotic but it ends up that half our battle is spent fighting these allegations and the message gets diluted.

However I do recognise that without the nationalistic focus edl would probably not have galvonised so many people to come out. IMO the best thing is to dilute it and concentrate on specific issues, ban the burkha, ban minarets, sharia etc. These issues really resonate with the public but nationalism for the sake of nationalism doesn't.
rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 03:51 PM
muslims are the religous followers of islam, so i feel my OP was correct. please enlighten me as to why it was wrong as im pretty new to all this and learning every day :$
Most muslims are born into the religion and have no choice but to follow it. In some countries they face death if they leave. Many muslims are decent people who do not follow the full religion. Being anti muslim is completely wrong. EDL is anti islamists, they are the extremists who want islam to become a poltiical system, implement sharia law, make britain an islamic state etc
Edited by roger_bates, Dec 19 2010, 04:15 PM.
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rikjd
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paxi christi
Dec 19 2010, 04:00 PM
rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 03:51 PM
paxi christi
Dec 19 2010, 03:40 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
muslims are the religous followers of islam, so i feel my OP was correct. please enlighten me as to why it was wrong as im pretty new to all this and learning every day :$
the EDL isnt anti-muslem at all.ITS ANTI SHARIA/ISLAMISM.
i dont hate muslems i hate and dispise islam.

keep the faith

paxi :)

the first peole who suffer from the devil practising barbarick teachings are moslems them selves.islam is the creed of the devil himself.
okay ye i get what you mean ill edit my post to suit it was a typo on my part that can and most likely will be used to cause an uproar and i apologise for that, but can you hate a religion yet have no feelings of hate towards those who force it onto us? Im not saying all muslims should be hated or anything, its a difficult thing to state a religion is evil yet say oh the people who follow it arent hated. Kind of like saying its not their fault they follow a bad religion?
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roger_bates
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rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 04:19 PM
but can you hate a religion yet have no feelings of hate towards those who force it onto us?
As I said above, replace "muslims" with "islamists" in future.
Visit my website - How to be Politically Correct www.makemepc.com
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Being anti-Islam doesn't mean that you're against peaceful Muslims, it means you're just against the ones that believe in the violence in the Quran.
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rikjd
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roger_bates
Dec 19 2010, 04:33 PM
rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 04:19 PM
but can you hate a religion yet have no feelings of hate towards those who force it onto us?
As I said above, replace "muslims" with "islamists" in future.
will do, tried editing my post but there doesnt seem an option for it :-/ thanks for clearing it up for me i knew what i meant but didnt put it across correctly which when its such a sensitive issue is bad form on my part.
We-Are-The-British
Dec 19 2010, 04:37 PM
Being anti-Islam doesn't mean that you're against peaceful Muslims, it means you're just against the ones that believe in the violence in the Quran.
I tried stating this on another topic about a mosque leader i know who is a really sound bloke and knows the quran off by heart yet is quite integrated into our society and easy to chat to about the pros and cons to not only his beliefs but those of other religions, yet the response i got was that Islam isnt a peaceful religion and Jihads will lie to you as a way of controlling and making you believe their ways?
Edited by rikjd, Dec 19 2010, 04:42 PM.
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roger_bates
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rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 04:39 PM
roger_bates
Dec 19 2010, 04:33 PM
rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 04:19 PM
but can you hate a religion yet have no feelings of hate towards those who force it onto us?
As I said above, replace "muslims" with "islamists" in future.
will do, tried editing my post but there doesnt seem an option for it :-/ thanks for clearing it up for me i knew what i meant but didnt put it across correctly which when its such a sensitive issue is bad form on my part.
No probs. Its actually a really key issue. It is generally acceptable in the media, with poltiicans etc to be against islamists (eg Andrew Gilligan). People try and demonise and write off the edl by saying it is against all muslims. If we can clear up and get that point straight, the future is massive.
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Malbekh
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roger_bates
Dec 19 2010, 04:33 PM
rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 04:19 PM
but can you hate a religion yet have no feelings of hate towards those who force it onto us?
As I said above, replace "muslims" with "islamists" in future.
Yes, language is of the utmost importance. "Islamists" not "muslims" are the threat and that should be the language employed, as Wilders says there are moderate Muslims but no moderate Islam.
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WATP
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Anti jihadism will only fight one of our enemies. patriotism will preserve our nation, our culture and fight all our enemies.
:uk: :england: We are the people
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roger_bates
Dec 19 2010, 04:33 PM
rikjd
Dec 19 2010, 04:19 PM
but can you hate a religion yet have no feelings of hate towards those who force it onto us?
As I said above, replace "muslims" with "islamists" in future.
In the west muslims (on the whole) do not force their religion onto us. Their leaders and institutions have found willing allies on the multi-culturalist left. At UAF conferences on islamophobia and multiculturalism, there may be 5% of the audience that is muslim, and this is in cities where the population is 30-40% muslim. Think about it....

This alliance of evil is pointed out by Kenan Malik here:
http://www.kenanmalik.com/papers/fatwa_intro.html

Malik was a member of the SWP in the 1980s. It is these multiculturalists who are the true racists - they need and want the concept of "race" to survive. They defend it every bit as strongly as the BNP.

Furthermore, the left and the right in Britain are desperately trying to stop muslims from joining EDL. They are failing - muslims are coming along to EDL demos, and before long they will be speaking at EDL demos.

It is actually possible that the majority of "muslims" in Britain would like nothing better than to have the 40% of muslims who are extremists and want sharia silenced. I walked past a betting shop last week, in a very muslim area - I've never been in a betting shop in my life, but the 8 people I saw through the window all looked like "muslims" to me.
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Homo Sapien
Dec 19 2010, 07:49 PM
I walked past a betting shop last week, in a very muslim area - I've never been in a betting shop in my life, but the 8 people I saw through the window all looked like "muslims" to me.
A sign of the Muslim community integrating? Hopefully.
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