| Welcome to Edl The Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Strategy; What's the long term view? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 17 2010, 01:41 AM (323 Views) | |
| shnarkle | Dec 17 2010, 01:41 AM Post #1 |
|
Firstly, I'd like to say that I totally endorse everything EDL stands for, and that it is an absolutely necessary organisation which gives a voice to the vast majority who are effectively disenfranchised by the attitude of our liberal elite to the very real threat from Islam. However, what should be our long term strategy? Already, we have been marginalised by the major political parties as a right wing, racist copy cat of BNP. Aided by the likes of the BBC and the national press we have essentially been dismissed as a bunch of thugs who are just looking for trouble, and perhaps we are in danger of confirming that view in the minds of the public, rather than getting the essential message across of the dangers we face through Islamisation. Yes, demonstrations are essential, and I applaud everyone who attends, but they will only get us so far. What we really need is a strategy to get the message acknowledged by mainstream politics. Only then will we have a powerful enough lever to take truly effective measures against this growing cancer. We need to be lobbying our MPs in their surgeries, asking them what they propose to do about the threat; and not accept the, "Vast majority of Muslims are peaceful." tosh as an answer. We need to argue our case at every opportunity in public, using calm and measured tones. Every bit of ammunition we need is contained in the Koran; we need to expose the explosive (oops!) verses to the widest public examination, because as yet the majority of the public are blissfully unaware of the Koran's content, or Islam's blood soaked history. We absolutely have to maintain a demeanour of rationality, logic and calmness so as not to give further ammunition to the likes of the BBC; but rather show more and more people that we are a respectable organisation of countrymen and women who share the same concerns as their own, and can give them a voice that will be listened to. |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Dec 17 2010, 02:22 AM Post #2 |
|
Deleted User
|
No fcuking way. Who needs their fcuking respect? 18 months of abuse and villification, and we are still stronger than the trade unions. We need to terrorise the liberal-left who have abandoned all defense of the UN Declaration of Human Rights. We need to declare war on these spineless morons who will give way to any fascist with a tan and a funny hat. We should grind their faces in the dirt, and leave them battered and bruised. These liberal-lefties are the people who should be ashamed. Take no prisoners.... |
|
|
| lancastrian | Dec 17 2010, 09:20 AM Post #3 |
Member
|
Sorry Homo Sapiens, that sort of attitude is just a one way ticket to irrelevance. The original post say it all because we need numbers, significant numbers and if you think that the majority of people will respond to your approach with anything other than loathing you are plain wrong. Simple test for anyone who thinks I'm wrong, go on to other fora such BBC Points of View, itv.com, Wales Online etc and try arguing there with people who haven't seen a problem with Islamic militancy or just don't think about it and who aren't generally UAF types either. They are the people we need to awaken to the threat that we have already perceived because they are the vast majority in this country. Get them on our side and we will be many steps forward. Try appealing to the street fighting thuggish elements in this country and not only will the EDL be totally irrelevant, it will lose a lot of support from this board, myself for one. |
| Outlaw sharia law | |
![]() |
|
| shnarkle | Dec 17 2010, 09:33 AM Post #4 |
|
Homo Sapiens; if we were stronger than the trades unions we would both have the ability to cause concern in the corridors of powers, whereas at present we are dismissed as hard right racists and not treated as a valid voice of the people; and we would be treated respectfully by the media; which we aren't. We shall only terrorise the liberal left when we have true political power, and that means being a part of mainstream politics; not making the same mistake as the twots in the BMP. |
![]() |
|
| Lunar Monkey | Dec 17 2010, 09:38 AM Post #5 |
|
Patriot
|
I see so many questions on this forum asking "What's the plan" and I don't think one really exists. The EDL is doing all it can to highlight the problem, which is all we can do in the hope that those in power who are supposed to represent us actually do something about it. It's complicated. Very. Islam is a worldwide problem, but we need to concentrate on our own country first. Islam itself needs to change for any real difference and I'm taking history as my example here in saying that it never will. Given that fact, it's our own governments attitude that has to change. We have to stop giving away our own traditions in favour of other cultures, and as far as I'm aware, there is only Islam that has ever complained. |
![]() Support those who risk their lives to speak the truth! | |
![]() |
|
| lancastrian | Dec 17 2010, 10:14 AM Post #6 |
Member
|
I think Lunar Monkey is right, we don't have a strategy. However, one thing we definitely need to do is to try and make the EDL at least tolerated by the media, I mean, even the Daily Mail gives us a slating! First step to that is to expel anyone who is identified as a member of the BNP. No ifs, no buts, and no matter how senior or involved in the original set-up they may have been, if they are currently a member of the BNP then they need to go. We also need a clear rule saying that no body who is a BNP member will be accepted here. If we don't do this then the message we are trying to put out won't be heard because the instant association will be BNP and like myself, most people absolutely despise them. |
| Outlaw sharia law | |
![]() |
|
| Lunar Monkey | Dec 17 2010, 10:29 AM Post #7 |
|
Patriot
|
That's going to be hard to do. I don't agree with the BNP policies but I assume there are many supporters of the BNP who are also anti Islam. There are members of the EDL who have other views widely different to my own that I don't agree with, but we still stand together on the main issue. How can anyone identify an EDL member? Purely because they have posted on here, or have "liked" a certain facebook page? There simply isn't a membership list, so there's no way of knowing. The EDL is a huge movement, but we don't really know who's a member and who isn't. Given that, how can we identify someone who agrees with the BNP policies that most humans would scorn? I'm not willing to discount BNP members of the EDL, even though I don't agree on their racist policies, because if I discounted the BNP does that mean I should discount every other group I don't agree with? Even if they are anti-Islam like myself? I don't agree with football hooligans, but we all know that it's thanks to that "group" that we have the EDL today. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Islam is my enemy, and if they're willing to stand by my side in the fight then I will welcome them, whatever their other views. Let's sort out the main problem, then fight about the trivialities later. |
![]() Support those who risk their lives to speak the truth! | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Dec 17 2010, 11:54 AM Post #8 |
|
Deleted User
|
Eighteen months ago the police thought EDL would collapse within 6 months (as confessed by the police themselves). Instead we've gathered more support than the UAF, and done more to fight fascism and put forward religious tolerance then the UAF have done. Twelve months ago the media were describing EDL as "racist, homophobic, far-right extremists". Two weeks ago the police's own Domestic Extremism Unit made a public statement saying "EDL are not far-right extremists". We don't have to cosy up to the liberal left and the media. We have to smash them because they are the ones who allowed this to happen. We have to show how they are the ones who have abandoned civilised values like the UN Declaration of Human Rights. Whatever our strategy is, we should not be discussing it on an open forum like this. EDL is not an organisation - it is a disorganisation. The fascist left and the establishment cannot know what we are going to do. Feel free to discuss strategy until you are blue in the face. I'm pretty sure that whatever you all conclude the strategy should be will be totally ignored. In fact, it may end up being the reverse of what you conclude. We are not giving our enemies any indication of what we are going to do. Loose lips sink ships. |
|
|
| williamdegriffin | Dec 17 2010, 12:13 PM Post #9 |
|
Patriot
|
the E.D.L. political wing .....its the only way forward . take the fight to goverment Edited by williamdegriffin, Dec 17 2010, 12:14 PM.
|
|
This land is mine and as such respect me and my ways for my tolerance only goes so far william de griffin REGAIN THE CHURCH REMOVE ISLAM FROM THE UK AND EUROPE. | |
![]() |
|
| Lunar Monkey | Dec 17 2010, 12:20 PM Post #10 |
|
Patriot
|
HS, while I agree with what you say, poor old Tommy is always asked at the interviews "what do we want"....... It's the same as if we ask old Andy Choudary what he wants. For now, he wants everyone out of Afghanistan and Iraq, but we all know that even after the troops have pulled out we'll still be hit by terrorists, so what will their excuses and demands be then? When will we, the EDL be happy? When the muslim communities say there are no terrorists left? We all know that will never happen, and if it did, it would be a lie. Will we be happy if muslims alter the koran to fit in with western values? Yes, we would, but again, we all know that will never happen. This is the media nightmare, because the only true answer to suit most members of the EDL is that we will only be happy when Islam is no longer a threat to our country. In my view, that is when Islam is no longer tolerated and is sent back to where it belongs. The 7th Century. |
![]() Support those who risk their lives to speak the truth! | |
![]() |
|
| williamdegriffin | Dec 17 2010, 12:21 PM Post #11 |
|
Patriot
|
id like to put an order in for 10000 leaflets and 1000 window stickers ....an office in watford and some staff . lets make things move .The unaficial E.D.L awareness branch , support your local candidate. today watford ,tomorrow , the world. |
|
This land is mine and as such respect me and my ways for my tolerance only goes so far william de griffin REGAIN THE CHURCH REMOVE ISLAM FROM THE UK AND EUROPE. | |
![]() |
|
| totherarf | Dec 17 2010, 12:54 PM Post #12 |
|
Member
|
I am sure that we (EDL) are not persuing a "grand stratergy" but reacting to events arround us. Our membership is diverse and has many different views on many different things ...... the one common theread seems to be our opposition to "Radical Islam"! This is our weakness and our streingth at the same time. Our opponents cannot predict where we will be next year because we do not know ourselves! If the "leadership" decided to persue a course of action that was unpopular with the majority of the members, it would find itself loosing power ...... conversely whilst they do things that we approve of they gain power (and we gain members)! Those who study Trotski will see some interesting connections! On a practicle note there are some things that are happening that are seen as good and will therefore be pushed ..... Peacefull demmos like Peterborough and Newcastle, and interviews on sky (Tommy and Kev) or the inclusion of the Iconic EDL Santa (genious) as well as visible multinational emblems, flags and facepainting are some! We will obviously want to promote good relations with the police and press, and with the general public as well as promoting international support ....... how this is achieved (if we do achieve it) is not certain ..... yet! The only thing that I can say with any certainty is we will .......... NEVER SURRENDER! |
![]() |
|
| shnarkle | Dec 17 2010, 01:17 PM Post #13 |
|
|
![]() |
|
| Popper | Dec 17 2010, 02:24 PM Post #14 |
|
Good post. I especially agree with the point about the media and the liberal left. The EDL, in my view, should not get involved as a political party. The only thing that it needs to do is to oppose everything, however minor, that advances the islamisation of our country. We are all in agreement about the problem. There does not even have to be a plan. I have been recently impressed with an internet phenomenon originating from a group calling itself "Anonymous". This group has no leadership whatsoever. They basically decide to attack someone and if they are in agreement about it the target is mercilessly targeted. As there is no leadership they are very difficult to defend against. I think the EDL just needs to keep it simple and carry on doing what it has been doing so far. The trick is to make sure an EDL protest is a fun event which is addictive. KISS Keep It Simple Stupid |
![]() |
|
| BlueStar | Dec 17 2010, 03:32 PM Post #15 |
Member
|
@ Popper. Well said. Keep it simple. Keep it focused. The issue of the increasing Islamification of this country is now on the table and is less of a taboo subject. We've made the government and a myriad other agencies sit up and take note that people are fed up with the abject appeasement of militant Islam and are prepared to take to the streets to demonstrate such concerns. These are exciting times. The EDL has enormous potential as a popular movement against militant Islam to shape future opinion in this regard both here and abroad. |
![]() |
|
| shnarkle | Dec 17 2010, 05:09 PM Post #16 |
|
There can be no doubt that without political representation the EDL will continue to be marginalised up a cul-de-sac. Even Hitler saw that, and advanced his ideals through the democratic process. If you want to effect change in a democracy, (which is one of the bastions we are trying to protect from Islam) then you have to use the political process otherwise you will always have more bark and less bite. Make no mistake; the Islamists recognise this, and flood local labour parties with memberships so that they become the majority. When candidates are chosen for local election the Islamists block vote in their candidate who then becomes the official Labour Party candidate for the local council. Once there they have privilaged access to a large number of influential people and movers and shakers denied to those outside the accepted political process. Yes, rhetoric is a fine thing; but it is toothless. Without political representation we will only achieve so much influence. If we are going to do this thing; then let's do it properly. |
![]() |
|
| lancastrian | Dec 17 2010, 06:13 PM Post #17 |
Member
|
Well said snarkle. You are quite right but don't forget there are some 6m muslims here. That's a pretty big pool to select from. To have any effect we need to get to the point of supporter numbering hundreds of thousands |
| Outlaw sharia law | |
![]() |
|
| BlueStar | Dec 17 2010, 07:23 PM Post #18 |
Member
|
@ Shnarkle I think you're overestimating the influence Councillors have in local government. They don't have the power you seem to think they do as its often the Executive - Council officers - who run the show not the Members i.e. Councillors. Both the Members and Executive of Councils work alongside statutory agencies such as the Police, local health authorities etc... and all these agencies meet together regularly and inter-relate in local strategic planning committees (every district throughout the country has such committees). IMO social pressure groups like the EDL have a much greater chance of influencing and shaping opposition to the Islamification of this country by remaining singly-focused, not on electoral success, but on simply raising awareness nationwide of what would otherwise be treated as a taboo out-of-bounds subject. It is in creating a focused groundswell of public opinion and street protest against Islamification rather than in seeking to be able to set, for example, budgets relating to council tax expenditure and a hundred other local authority issues, that will ensure the EDL's voice and influence is clearly and often heard, throughout the aforementioned committees and government departments. |
![]() |
|
| lancastrian | Dec 18 2010, 09:09 AM Post #19 |
Member
|
Lunar_Monkey let me have a go at explaining why I believe the BNP need to be treated as an exceptional case where proscription is justified. If you look at British culture over the recent decades, one consistent theme has been WWII. From the Dambusters March at football, through numerous war films to Dad's Army the defeat of Hilter and the Nazis has been one of our proudest moments. The public perception of the BNP and their predecessors is that they are fascists/nazis who love Hilter and the SS, a perception fuelled by the symbols and statements at various times by some of their members. This is the antithesis of what British culture has meant for at least the past 70 years. No mainstream politician, church leader (important since the Christian churches are under heavy attack by militant Islam) or journalist etc will go near them with a barge pole. Worse, any group that contains people who are members of the BNP is popularly assumed to be a BNP front with everyone in it being a closet fascist. Also, once a fascist always a fascist is the general perception. To take the other group you mentioned, Football hooligans, whilst that isn't good publicity, the sins there are on the individual and British culture generally is much more tolerant of that. Look at the love/hate relationship with the Krays and Ronnie Biggs. Also people can say they are reformed characters and are much more likely to be believed. The Tory party has managed to live without throwing Archer out after his spell of residence at her Majesty's pleasure. When the EDL get the kind of slating, stating 'nazi' type links that the Daily Mail recently handed out more or less at the same time as they ran the article by Melanie Phillips which said a lot of what the EDL says about Islamic militants there is a need to seriously consider the public image. Some people here believe that the EDL is winning the 'demo war' and yes, it probably has lasted longer than the authorities expected but so long as the media coverage is hostile, it isn't going to make an impression on the wider audience. The EDL is far from winning the publicity battle and that battle is vital to establishing a critical mass of followers that will make the EDL a group with significant influence. Islam has had 50 years to establish in Britain and a pool of circa 6m people from which to draw activists. The EDL doesn't have that length of time to work its way into public life and the positions of power from which policy can be influenced. The threat from militant Islam grows by the day, so the quicker the EDL can become an effective pressure group the better and a lot of noise on the streets doesn't equate to political pressure. Take the current student demos. Plenty of noise, plenty of quiet sympathy in positions of power (these students are the children/grand-children of the policy makers) but the tution fees policy will go through. Getting a reversal of policy in this country e.g. a burka ban on security grounds or stopping Islamic schools teaching the Saudi curriculum which IMO would have widespread public suppport isn't going to happen unless effective pressure which can counter the well entrenched opposition that will be put up by the many Islamic groups in public life can be brought to bear. To do that the EDL must lose any association with fascism in the public consciousness. I know that many in this echo chamber, as albion_uk accurately described it, will say either the association isn't there or "fcuk the leftie arseholes" but that won't make a blind bit of difference in the wider world. I will repeat my simple test again for anyone who doubts the above. Go and try and argue the case against Islamic militancy on mainstream media fora such as BBC Points of View, itv.com etc and look at the reaction you get. The vast majority will be on the lines of "nazi scum", "racist thug" etc no matter how polite and well presented the initial piece might be. I agree that the only common thing on here that binds people together is opposition to Islamic militancy and that identification of current bNP membership is very difficult but a public perception that the EDL is trying to combat the BNP influence would help the image immensely. |
| Outlaw sharia law | |
![]() |
|
| RMB | Dec 18 2010, 09:42 AM Post #20 |
![]()
Member
|
" A first response, long favoured by political elites, is a strategy of political exclusion that aims to exclude extreme right parties from elected office and political debate. Critics of this approach focus on two points. First, exclusion risks fuelling perceptions among the extreme right electorate that their concerns are not taken seriously. Second, its effectiveness is challenged by research elsewhere in Europe which concludes that parties that are excluded from the political process become more radicalised whereas those that are not either become more moderate or implode from within, unable to reconcile public office with their ‘outsider’ image." From an article about what to do with EDL I posted awhile back. The trick is for them to want you; politicians are whores. They'll do whatever it takes to get elected. Which is kind of a problem due to the political diversity inherent to EDL; you'll never be a monolithic political bloc. Edited by RMB, Dec 18 2010, 09:44 AM.
|
|
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. -Voltaire NEVER SURRENDER | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Dec 18 2010, 09:45 AM Post #21 |
|
Deleted User
|
Probably the best few words I have read here for a long time. |
|
|
| Deleted User | Dec 18 2010, 10:32 AM Post #22 |
|
Deleted User
|
i am with you on this one we dont need there respect |
|
|
| jmhoufton | Dec 18 2010, 10:43 AM Post #23 |
Newbie
|
I agree with shnarkle...we need to be seen to be peaceful yet strong so as to gain the trust of the British people. we need to expose the Koran for what it is too. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · EDL Chat · Next Topic » |
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
1:16 AM Jul 11
|
Feliz Navidad (Gold) created by Sarah & Delirium of the ZNR








1:16 AM Jul 11