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| Response to Tommy R's Debate with a Muslim; On the BBC's Asian Network | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 6 2010, 11:36 PM (422 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Dec 6 2010, 11:36 PM Post #1 |
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Deleted User
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http://theenglishdefenceleagueextra.blogspot.com/2010/12/english-defence-league-leader-debates.html |
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| Bob England | Dec 6 2010, 11:49 PM Post #2 |
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Kafir
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A perfect example of takiya there
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| Deleted User | Dec 6 2010, 11:51 PM Post #3 |
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As always, another good blog entry from R.S Peters. |
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| easyt | Dec 6 2010, 11:53 PM Post #4 |
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Patriot
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thanks for that link i didnt know about that site some more reading to do |
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| Zcott | Dec 7 2010, 12:16 AM Post #5 |
Armchair Division
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Tommy looked bad at the end. He needs to back up what he says with evidence. When he was talking about stoning he should of mentioned Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani from being Stoned to Death in Iran for something she didn't even do. 'Are women treated equally in Shariah law?' 'Absoloutly' 'No there not' There Tommy should of backed himself up with examples of when women are not treated equally under shariah law. Mention the burka, and also mention that the head of the British muslims has condemned the burka, yet, it is still allowed, and I also believe that mohammed condemed the use of it in the koran? Mention Qur'an 24:31 Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye. And when he mentions he learnt all he needs to know about Shariah law on the internet is a bad move, because anyone can write anything on the internet. It should be 'I've learnt about shariah law from reading the Qur'an, the hadith, from conversing with others such as -example- and maybe throw in some quotes such as Qur'an 38:44, "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." and Hadith 33:10, "A'isha reported: Allah's Apostlemarried me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old." Edited by Zcott, Dec 7 2010, 12:17 AM.
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I may criticize the EDL a bit, but I support the cause 100%. Armchair division. I may not go to demos, but I'm there in spirit. | |
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| roger_bates | Dec 7 2010, 12:27 AM Post #6 |
Patriot
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Good article. The guy was lying. Tommy needs to bring up taqiyya and also memorise the key discriminatory points against womnen in sharia law |
| Visit my website - How to be Politically Correct www.makemepc.com | |
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| Deleted User | Dec 7 2010, 12:28 AM Post #7 |
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Yes, but how much do you NEED TO KNOW before you can take an anti-Islamic position? When we went to war with Hitler, had every Brit read Mein Kampf? Do I need to read Das Kapital before I can righfully criticise Communism? Do I need to know anything at all about serial killers/paedophiles to be against them? Muslims play on that lack of knowledge, I admit. They try to suck you in. They want to make Muslims out of us by highlighting the kuffars lack of knowledge of Islam. I have read the Koran. But I simply don't feel the need to study it anymore. I know what I need to know. I will only go into greater detail for publicity or propaganda purposes, not enlightenment into Islam. ... Now where's that book on witchcraft? |
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| Zcott | Dec 7 2010, 12:35 AM Post #8 |
Armchair Division
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I see what you mean Peters, but it helps to back yourself up in an argument. What if someone from a neutralist position had listened to that debate? Quotes from the Qau'ran and Hadith and examples of modern day Shariah would of swayed them a lot more to the EDL side. |
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I may criticize the EDL a bit, but I support the cause 100%. Armchair division. I may not go to demos, but I'm there in spirit. | |
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| Deleted User | Dec 7 2010, 12:43 AM Post #9 |
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38:44 is never a good one to use unless you know what your talking about since it relates the the biblical story of Ayyub (job) and could be (and often is) argued as specific to context. far better to opt for 4:34 which is explicitly clear and open ended. |
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| UK-Jack | Dec 7 2010, 12:43 AM Post #10 |
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Kafir
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That's why we should always treat what islam says as economically truethful. NS |
Patriotism is love and devotion to one's country![]() Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society. Aristotle All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke | |
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| Zcott | Dec 7 2010, 12:45 AM Post #11 |
Armchair Division
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Wasn't aware of that. Thanks for that.
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I may criticize the EDL a bit, but I support the cause 100%. Armchair division. I may not go to demos, but I'm there in spirit. | |
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| English Badman | Dec 7 2010, 12:46 AM Post #12 |
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I agree with Zcott, evidence, quotes, and facts are really important in a debate like that. All together I think Tommy did a good job though, he didn't loose his temper and the Muslim guy wanted nothing more than for Tommy to loose his temper on live TV. The Muslim bloke was in the wrong though, wether or not Sharia Law tells Muslims to obey British laws they'd still try use it as an excuse in a court situation. For example, beating your wife half to death is illegal but if a Muslim was taken to court and Sharia Law ran alongside British law that Muslim would try to use Islam and Sharia Law as an excuse. - NS |
Be England what she will, with all her faults, she is my Country still - Charles Churchill
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| roger_bates | Dec 7 2010, 12:48 AM Post #13 |
Patriot
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Zscott is right but I understand your point and there is a balance. Debates with muslims always go in a certain way and you need to plan for this in advance. They will always claim your lack of knowledge makes you ignorant and prejudice. The trick is to show a good grounding of basic knowledge and then turn the questions back to them. So in this case he could've said he has read the koran and hadiths (mention the 2 most trusted, Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih muslim). Then stated a few key components of sharia law that discriminate against women (eg they are entitled to half the inheritance, their word is worth half a man's). Throw that back on the guy and see if he denies it is true. Make him squirm. |
| Visit my website - How to be Politically Correct www.makemepc.com | |
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| Deleted User | Dec 7 2010, 12:51 AM Post #14 |
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I think RS has hit it here. I mean, how can anyone really, honestly defend against an analogy like that. I'm sure in the world of Islam someone would but by doing so they would back them self in to a corner. <Disclaimer: I know Islam relies on being dishonest here, but RS's comment really speaks to the Brit in me> |
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| Zcott | Dec 7 2010, 01:00 AM Post #15 |
Armchair Division
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We went to war against Hitler because Hitler has broken many terms of the treaty of Versailes and he had taken up land in Czechoslovakia and Austria. Britain warned Germany not to invade poland, Hitler invaded Poland, we went to war. You can criticize communism without reading the communist manifesto, but when you critisize it you no doubt give reasons why you don't like it, or do you just go "communism is stupid", you'd give reasons why you don't like it, like how it always ends up in a dictatorship government of which you'd say Stalin and Kim Jong Ill, and maybe say how it makes living conditions worse, like Cuba having a great medical service before Castro taking over and then it become like that of an African country after. You don't need to know the profile of a serial killer or a peadophile to be against them, because those actions are what our society strongly doesn't like. With Islam you will need examples, you will need reasons, you will need quotes to backup what you say, other wise you can easily be called a racist, islamophobic, narrow minded, a bigot. If someone watched an debate between 2 people, person 1 said something and person 2 disagreed with it blankly without backing it up, the person watching it would think they're ignorant. What would a person with no view on that situation had been watching that debate? They wouldn't be massivly swayed in the EDL view would they. Edited by Zcott, Dec 7 2010, 01:01 AM.
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I may criticize the EDL a bit, but I support the cause 100%. Armchair division. I may not go to demos, but I'm there in spirit. | |
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| Deleted User | Dec 7 2010, 01:14 AM Post #16 |
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Here’s a quick and easy answer for anybody suggesting we allow sharia law in the UK. We do not extradite people to countries which have the death penalty. Why the fcuk would we allow the introduction of any part of a legal system which includes the death penalty. Stare into the camera, end of discussion. In the case of Soering v. United Kingdom, the European Court of Human Rights held that it would violate Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights to extradite a person to the United States from the United Kingdom in a capital case. This was due to the harsh conditions on death row and the uncertain timescale within which the sentence would be executed. Parties to the European Convention also cannot extradite people where they would be at significant risk of being tortured inhumanely or degradingly treated or punished. |
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| desade | Dec 7 2010, 01:23 AM Post #17 |
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Whilst the posts here do make relevant points, I suggest that those of you making them, and indeed all of us, should make an effort to do what Tommy has done. Which is to say, put ourselves in harms way and oppose the islamists in whatever way we can publicly. NFSE. |
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| the captain | Dec 7 2010, 01:25 AM Post #18 |
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i dont post as much as i should i tend to do more reading and with the utmost respect for tommy and what he has done and is still doing i think that when it comes to interviews and debate we have to look for someone with experience in such matters i think of someone ln the mould of pat condell as an example as the edl growes i can see more high profile interviews wether it be on tv or political debate just a thought as i believe its only a matter of time when it will be debated on tv some night and representatives of the edl and the muzzies will be asked to take part so best to be prepared |
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| Bob England | Dec 7 2010, 01:27 AM Post #19 |
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Kafir
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My response to Mohammad Ayoub On Stoning! Edited by Bob England, Dec 7 2010, 01:27 AM.
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| Deleted User | Dec 7 2010, 01:36 AM Post #20 |
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I'm sure we'll be ready for anything. Tommy has passion and you can't fake that. He's right and he knows he's right. I'm sure we have some media people on here who can do a bit of fine tuning for him, but I can't wait for Tommy to get in amongst some of the political classes. Tommy can say to any one of them, if they try to talk down to him, "What have you ever physically done in support of your beliefs? If you want to know what I've done, look on youtube." I think people are desperate to see somebody debating who actually believes in what he's saying. Our time is coming. NS |
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| wodin | Dec 7 2010, 02:32 AM Post #21 |
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It would'nt hurt to have a public relations officer on board, then the msm couldn't barrack Robbo all the time! Someone who could work full time on our publicty, someone who could sort all the wheat from the chaff for interviews, and field questions from Antifa supporters who just want to miss-quote us all the time. Just a suggestion!
Edited by wodin, Dec 7 2010, 02:37 AM.
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| bodey3 | Dec 7 2010, 04:08 AM Post #22 |
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Ayoub was smug and told half-truths. Host was good looking, though. Agree that the EDL needs someone working on better publicity. Every misstep by individual members is picked up in the press and the good is overshadowed by that. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 7 2010, 04:17 AM Post #23 |
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Good points! |
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| Mahihkan | Dec 7 2010, 04:27 AM Post #24 |
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The last thing you need is PR, you are what you are? Ordinary working Brits. |
| AUT PAX AUT BELLUM | |
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| Xboxgen | Dec 7 2010, 05:08 AM Post #25 |
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I know this is a terrible admition but I've read the Kuran 3 different translations and I know more about it than I do the holy bible. my shame I know but that is the very reason why I am in violent opposition to it. this is a very good blog. well done. |
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| Caractacus | Dec 7 2010, 05:23 AM Post #26 |
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That host was fit but was she ever a biased piece of work! Dunno bout you lot but I thought she might as well av been beside mo-man arguein against Tommy aswell. |
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British by birth, English by the grace of God. “St George he was for England, and before he killed the dragon, he drank a pint of English ale, out of an English flagon.” "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." | |
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| Xboxgen | Dec 7 2010, 06:23 AM Post #27 |
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I thought she was souless. you need more than 10 minutes to debate something as important as this. still lesson learned. the BBC should be ashamed of itself. |
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| brawlad | Dec 7 2010, 08:26 AM Post #28 |
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I have no wish to offend anyone, nor in any way detract from what 'tommy robinson' has achieved by sheer passion & courage, but i have to say this discussion on sharia seemed to me pretty disastrous. I simply dont agree with those here who think that a lack of knowledge of sharia, or at best some vague idea about it, is a sufficient basis for effectively opposing it. Its not easy because sharia (contrary to the idea some posters seem to have) is not a single monolithic code, far from it, there are many schools, traditions, versions, areas & varieties of implementation. Maybe it would help us all if a clear simple summary of what aspects of sharia the edl is actually opposed to & why were to be constructed by those members who evidently have the knowledge to do this. A start could be the principle that a united country should have one legal system applying to all its citizens equally. In a way, lack of precision has served the edl well so far, because people with different concerns can identify with it, but for the future this could become a handicap. |
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| Xboxgen | Dec 7 2010, 09:16 AM Post #29 |
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can I say this. who was this Muslim anyway for godsakes? some random Muzzie the Beeb pulled off the street??? seriously. why did Tommy even bother to engage with this nobody?? it is simply beneath him and all of us. we didn't gain anything apart from something to talk about. if it was the Crazy Muslim Cleric Anjem Choudary Tommy was engaging with then yeah that may have been worth while but this random Islamist. its an Isult. the BBC Insulted us. |
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| roger_bates | Dec 7 2010, 10:04 AM Post #30 |
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I agree with this point. Specifics are needed Also the other point that edl needs someone who is media savvy. There are people here like peter pededant that would wipe the floor with that mussie or any journalist. One slip up in an interview could be enough to ruin the whole reputation and open edl to ridicule |
| Visit my website - How to be Politically Correct www.makemepc.com | |
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| englandman | Dec 7 2010, 11:21 AM Post #31 |
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Kafir
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NO! is the final word on sharia law in ENGLAND!! |
| "Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." George Orwell | |
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| Deleted User | Dec 7 2010, 11:52 AM Post #32 |
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He was the editor of some "muslim youth" magazine. Obviously the Beeb thought he would be "moderate" and therefore Tommy would show he is open to dealing with people like that, or that Tommy was simply anti-islam. How it backfired was that Tommy had not anticipated a muslim who simply knew nothing about sharia law (or who would flat out lie). Tommy needs to know nothing more about sharia law than to produce some photos of women being stoned and homos being hanged. And he just says "we are not letting this come to our country, and the existing 100 sharia courts are the thin end of the wedge". |
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| The Swine | Dec 7 2010, 12:08 PM Post #33 |
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Kafir
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Tommy should have suggested that the Muslim is quite free to live under the Sharia in Saudi or Iran and planes leave Heathrow everyday for those destinations. |
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