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| BBC on EDL Surprisingly neutral | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 6 2010, 09:50 PM (1,128 Views) | |
| pyrus | Dec 7 2010, 09:44 PM Post #51 |
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I don't get this class stuff at all maybe I live in a happy little bubble, but I have no idea which class I 'belong' to, and I really don't care either class war is for... well it's for those crazy loons class war isn't it... (strange they don't get as many mentions as C18 isn't it...) |
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| roger_bates | Dec 7 2010, 09:45 PM Post #52 |
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Its got nothing to do with class. There is a mass of 'silent majority' middle class right wing thinking people in this country, witness the most popular comments section on daily mail and bbc. The middle class liberals, the unions, the working class all have one thing in common, they vote labour. For years these working class have been voting labour in who in turn have flooded the country with immigrants, promoted islam and mulitculturalism. As a 'middle class' person and tory member, i have spent years walking labour areas trying to convince working class people that labour are screwing them over. But all we get in reply is 'labour are for the working class' bollocks. Now finally after how many years some of them are starting to wake up which is great. A case in point is my grandad who is 'working class' and his whole life a staunch labour supporter. This time for the first time ever he voted tory. And who is it that turns out to oppose the edl? None other than the working class warriors of the unions and socialist worker. However I am clever enough to know that they do not represent all working class people. They represent themselves an no one else, just as the middle class liberals represent themselves. Islam is united, the rest of us need to be too. Trying to divide people is not the way forward, particularly when we all have the same views and same common enemy, and that is islam and the liberal idiots (I won't even say white cause there are black ones too like Weyman Bennet and Dianne Abbot) Edited by roger_bates, Dec 7 2010, 09:46 PM.
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| CynicalSod | Dec 7 2010, 09:46 PM Post #53 |
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No sh1t. I've seen the vids myself, they're disgusting, stomach turning events. White rags become blood-tattered rags, as rocks are thrown en masse, large rocks, small stones, it don't matter - whatevers around! Stone them to death! For Allah! For peace! Lol. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 7 2010, 09:52 PM Post #54 |
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Why don't the silent middle class people speak out (apart from anonymously on the Daily Mail site)? You cannot blame the working class for Labours years in power, the middle class kept them in power, simply because the majority of working class people don't vote anymore. Why is correctly stating this is a class war divisive? Where are all these middle class people? On the comments section of the Daily Mail? And actually the Daily Mail is a good case in point. In the 80s when the working class was the target it was 'Sun readers' who were mocked by journalists, comedians etc Now all working class institutions are wrapped up it is the Daily Mail reader who is roundly ridiculed. |
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| pyrus | Dec 7 2010, 09:56 PM Post #55 |
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Patriot
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sometimes there are specific rules about the size of the stone too small and it won't do much damage too big and it'll do the job too quickly (and that would be no fun now would it) |
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| roger_bates | Dec 7 2010, 10:08 PM Post #56 |
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Its a good question, I agree they need to wake up. I hope they will get off their asses and do something, hopefully come together with the edl. But if the edl is going to turn it into a class thing then they won't. I don't think apathy is a middle or working class thing, its right wing people in general. The liberals to their credit get invloved more and get themselves into positions of power where as the rest just moan. If you look at all working class areas in Britain they are always Labour, maybe lib dems, but tories never get a look in. Like the muslims they vote Labour on mass. In the last election some didn't vote, and thats why Labour lost. Like I said they are waking up which is good but lets not forget how we got into this mess. Edited by roger_bates, Dec 7 2010, 10:09 PM.
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| Deleted User | Dec 7 2010, 10:20 PM Post #57 |
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They wont until they feel forced to, and they won't 'join' the EDL they will try and take it over or form their own group(s) This is just the first wave, people are looking at things too simplistically and not taking social factors and human nature into account. The EDL isn't turning it into a class thing I am because I believe it is. I have been saying it since I came on the forum, slowly but surely people are realising, you will yourself eventually. But to do so you must first rid your mind of the old order of things, because that became irrelevant a long time ago
No, Labour stopped relying on the working class vote in the 80s, the reason Blair was so successful was because he courted the middle class vote. Working class people don't vote anymore, and the ones that do are the drones who vote Labour because their parents did etc. The working class were disenfranchised from power long before Labour took office. Your average working class voter is someone who votes on X Factor or any of the other mindless shows which they use as the placatory soma for the masses these days. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2010, 12:19 AM Post #58 |
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I'm middle class. If you can't recognise the failures of the middle class, that's your problem not mine. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2010, 10:09 AM Post #59 |
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Well said HS. This isn't about denigrating other people/classes, or taking sides, it is about recognising what is going on. This isn't a class war in the traditional sense. This is a created class, the new communitarian political class, seeking to shape the old established classes into a new order. The bottom half of the middle class (and the working class social climbers) are next in line for social engineering. Evidence of this is the rise in tuition fees. They broke and divided the working class with education, or lack of it. Poor education gives people lower horizons and breeds apathy, subsequently they are less likely to engage with society and vote, losing their voice. As a result the working class was divided into three levels (underclass/abandoned w/class, working class and social climbers who entered the lower middle class during the classless society) and lost its voice and power. They also infiltrated the Labour Party, trades unions and church, the institutions which had traditionally spoken for the working class (for proof of that look at who is now running those institutions) The social climbers from working class and lower middle class are next in line, hence my Daily Mail comment. They're raising tuition fees, who will suffer out of the present middle class? The people on lower incomes. The purpose of this war is to change the country, our customs and traditions and most importantly our nationalism and identity. This is a multi-pronged attack on our whole way of life and people really need to drop the old conceptions, realise what is going on and who their real enemies are. |
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| jepi | Dec 8 2010, 10:28 AM Post #60 |
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wow the the mussie in the interview!!!! makes me so mad. Saying that Tommy is just like a muzzer extreminst!!! The last time I checked Tommy does wear a suicide vest does he? Hate people like this that try to blame people like us for extremism. Why can't they accept that their quran teaches it!! |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2010, 12:04 PM Post #61 |
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Your Daily Mail comment is very telling. Last night I was at a lecture on islam in a university. The room was divided into thirds - one third muslim fundamentalist, one third "moderate" muslims who knew little about islam, and one third non-muslims sympathetic to islam or worried about islam. When one of the muslim fundamentalists quoted something from the Daily Mail, the "liberal" part of the room fell about laughing at the idea that someone would quote from the Daily Mail without a sense of mockery. Another of the fundamentalists in the room castigated the room for laughing at "the brother" and for laughing at The Daily Mail. It was not the only time that night that the fundamentalists and I were in agreement (until the end, I think they thought I was on their side). Watching the UAF on the TV programme "Coppers" it struck me how many of the UAF were actually lower-middle class. That group of people seem to be desperate to dissociate themselves from the working class and to assert some moral, cultural and political superiority. To that end, they are not opposing EDL because they truly want to defend islam or "fight racism" - IMO they are opposing the EDL because they think the EDL are "chav scrotes" (as the UAF like to call us). I think you are right that the expansion of (useless) universities has been provided as a mechanism to give those people a way out of their proximity to the working class. They are bllthely unaware of the fact that the degrees they are getting are useless - graduates are now doing the jobs that 20 years ago people with A levels or O levels would have done. The mass higher education system is another Ponzi scheme. The middle class have been played by the media when it comes to EDL. With the media only ever showing photos of "racist drunken hooligans", they ensure that the middle class don't get involved with EDL. But middle class people share responsibility for this - they are perfectly capable of finding out things for themselves using the internet and a bit of intelligent footwork. I have no doubt that there are some middle class people who are getting very well informed about islam before they take the leap to align themselves with the EDL. When they come they will be made as welcome as black people and asians. Those few middle class people like me who do go on demos are fully aware that we do not experience any hostility or prejudice for not being like the other 99% of the people there. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2010, 04:20 PM Post #62 |
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Again, absolutely spot on. Ridicule is a potent weapon, it has been employed repeatedly over the last 50 years. The trades unions (helped by themselves admittedly), the church, the Labour Party (look what Sun headline 'Will the last person to leave Britain turn the light off' did to Labours 94 election bid) then the Tory party. Of course it wasn't just those institutions, there were a plethora of others that had the same treatment. They use an inherent tribal mentality that we all posess, everyone needs to feel 'in' on the joke, part of it, so the ridicule is automatically perpetuated once the seed is sown. Then, after the ridicule (Labour are a good example, made unelectable [same with the Tories 97-2007], it is the opportune moment to infiltrate and say 'Look we'll get you power if you do it our way'. The media are complicit because they are now controlled by the same people (links in with trades unions, they used the unions to break the control by upper class on the press, then turned on the unions to break the working class control). With a complicit media, public perception changes quickly, everyone's a winner, except the people they used to represent. Not everyone in the middle class is an enemy but all the enemy are middle class and they are now turning on their own, simply because they think the working class are finished. Far from criticising anyone middle class in the EDL I actually applaud them as free thinkers |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2010, 05:01 PM Post #63 |
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Villa Loyal:
Same here. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2010, 06:56 PM Post #64 |
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More working class people voted in the 2010 election than didn't vote, and I have the figures in this room right now to prove it. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2010, 07:05 PM Post #65 |
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What information would that be? Could you give me a link mate? 65% turnout at last election. Can't find any data which indicates the class of voter? |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2010, 07:18 PM Post #66 |
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Sorry mate I don't have a link, but I have a sheet full of various different voting statistics from May's election from a sample of 10,211 people given to me in a politics lesson, and it says that voter turnout for women in classes D and E (unskilled working and the unemployed) was 56%, men of the same class was 59% Class C2 (Skilled labour, plumbers and carpenters and the like) was 58% for both men and women. |
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| pyrus | Dec 8 2010, 09:50 PM Post #67 |
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Patriot
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interesting stats - what other categories were there? |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2010, 11:57 PM Post #68 |
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That will be a percentage of a small sample questioned by pollsters mate, you cannot put that up (10,000 people out of an electorate of at least 40 million) as conslusive proof that over 50% voted unfortunately, I wish it was true actually but it's sadly not |
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| rita.ar | Dec 9 2010, 04:06 PM Post #69 |
Newbie
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agree with much of your analysis there villa loyal (but wldnt really say its the 'middle classes' who are the ruling elite, most just dont get a look in and are just as surprised at the rest of you as to what the feck went wrong) but i would just ask one question: you say "there has been a class war going on in this country for the last 50 years" yet we all know 'class' existed before that. so i ask: who started this class war, and for what end? the fact that it [class war] has (in your own admission) only been going on these last 50 years suggests something changed at that point for the 'war' to 'start'. it can't have been the appearance of 'class' since this existed prior to that point. so what changed? i agree that some ppl who are labelled middle class are clearly cnuts, but to be honest, they [cnuts] appear right across many different spectrums (class, political, religious & so on) so surely the 'war' should be against 'cnuts' not classes? my own view on it anyway (war on cnuts is what we need) Rita PS pls excuse my unladylike language but sometimes its justified |
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| stormcrow | Dec 9 2010, 04:31 PM Post #70 |
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declare war on the cnuts. C - consevatives. N - nazis. U - unwashed. T - taliban (british branches) S - socialist workers party. LOL. |
![]() 2011....THE YEAR THE UAF DIED. | |
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| Deleted User | Dec 9 2010, 06:45 PM Post #71 |
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The old status quo consisted of the ruling upper class, with the cooperation of the working class. This national unity was based on patriotism, reverence to traditional rallying points such as the monarchy and the church. Into the equation with mass urbanisation and the industrial revolution came the mercantile or middle classes. Following the boom after WWII the middle classes became powerful, the politically minded amongst them began to crave power, they identififed things such as nationalism, patriotism and anything which gave the accepted staus quo (at the time) power. To usurp power they had to infiltrate bodies which gave the opposing classes their power, in the case of the working class that was the Labour Party, church and trades unions. In the case of the upper class it was universities, legal system, local and national politics, business etc A new ruling class emerged, from the upper levels of the middle class, however if you look at it, they are now involved in every facet of life to some extent, whatever their social standing within the middle class, we are now a middle class governed society. (Some of that copied and pasted from an old post of mine) |
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| Deleted User | Dec 9 2010, 11:27 PM Post #72 |
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I love how you pre-empted the swear editor
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| waspish | Dec 10 2010, 03:25 AM Post #73 |
Patriot
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class.... or no class... you dont have to be a chav to see islamic drug dealers on a daily basis on the streets where you live, they deliver to homes in places where neighbours are streets apart, they deliver coke with a curry... they deliver e's and speed at the school gates, they deliver to the city boys when they want coke, they deliver to prostitutes and dependant kids in school. they laugh at people of every class equally. dont make the mistake of thinking that islam is class based. it is not. I have friends who are doctors, I have friends who are lawyers, and even one quite high in the police force. they are old school friends and old work colleagues. and the same people still see the problems we do, they simply arent prepared to put their careers on the line to take to the streets. This doesnt make them cowards, It simply means they want their kids and grand kids to go to uni, and they are the ones who will have to stump up the money for it, especially now. People of all classes have to be guarded for many reasons. It doesnt mean they dont care or support the people who do take to the streets. |
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