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My next assignment at Uni is right wing groups and EDL is on the list...; I could use some help...
Topic Started: Dec 6 2010, 06:38 PM (906 Views)
Corni
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You could start with a definition of what right wing actually means, in the social sense and the economic sense. Personally I think the EDL is more left than right wing, in that it is mainly made up of working class people (the ones I've met at least) who have no time for Thatcherite Tory policies, and that it is against religious conservatism, typically a left wing interest area. Also I should mention I have sympathy for you having to listen to those loony left dickhead lecturers. I went to uni and had to do the same for three years, biting my tongue trying not to tell them to f*** of back to the eighties. Their time is over. They are dinosaurs living in a bubble.
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donPelayo
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From what I've seen so far, I'd say the EDL is a "classical liberal" movement, what would be called progressive and left-wing in the 18th century, long before Marx, when "conservatives" were religious, monarchic, economic interventionists (mercantilists) and liberals were for free markets, secularism and civil liberties. The EDL is not specifically pro-free markets, but it's not Marxist at all.
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dragon
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I think this maybe the best topic iv read in ages. My advise on your resurch is try to us his list as a guide you can be marked down if you go off the list. Pick 3 groups say EDL BNP and NF then show how been called right wing dose not make it so. Try to stay balaced show what each groups members say what the press say and what your resurch shows. Good luck as it will be very hard to get a good grade and tell the truth
FOR QUEEN , COUNTRY AND A COLD BEER
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uk4ever
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I'm a socialist and i'm here.

primarily because i don't like the cultural changes that are being forced upon us.

i see the EDL as a liberal movement, ensuring freedom of speech and equal rights.
As at the moment we have neither, being white and British means you're worthless to the gov.
we should be free to critisise all religion; and all should enjoy equal rights, gay, female etc

We shouldn't be forced into silence, if you don't like something and see it as against your priciples, you should be able to say so.

political correctness doesn't leave room for honesty, and the extreme lefty's hate to admit they were wrong about this whole multicultural experiment.
ask your lecturer (a) who, in the british gov, stood up against the nazis? and.. (b) who wanted to appease and placcate them?

use answers..
- socialists
- nationalists

it seems the left hate to admit that the fascisti movement was a socialist one. now they use the term fascist to insult each other and close down discussions on immigration.

try to separate nationalism/patriotism with right-win politics




Edited by uk4ever, Dec 7 2010, 07:51 AM.
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Mahihkan
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http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html
AUT PAX AUT BELLUM
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uk4ever
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Mahihkan
Dec 7 2010, 07:56 AM
another thing you might want to discuss about the EDL is how these cnut zionists and right-wingers are always trying to make cause with us.

ironic when we're all talking about the religious settlers here in the UK.

most of us here aren't zionist and don't make cause and stick to the true EDL message, a vocal few will try and make us all look like right-wing idiots.

this really has fkuc all to do with isreal, pls don't let those wnakers give u a false view of who the people of the EDL are.
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Mahihkan
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The Modern Jihad movement had it's beginnings with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
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Try to include a section on Islamism, what it means and where would this fall left/ right spectrum.
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lancastrian
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The EDL covers all shades of politics. I have voted labour/green most of my life and was a union branch secretary for about 9 years. Altghough the standard media portrayal is rightwing, I don't believe it is nor from conversations I have had over the years are many people who oppose Islamic militancy. I looked hard at the EDL before deciding to join and if I had thought it was a synonym for the BNP, I wouldn't have joined. IMO your lecturer is misguided.
Outlaw sharia law
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Mahihkan
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uk4ever
Dec 7 2010, 08:08 AM
Mahihkan
Dec 7 2010, 07:56 AM
another thing you might want to discuss about the EDL is how these cnut zionists and right-wingers are always trying to make cause with us.

ironic when we're all talking about the religious settlers here in the UK.

most of us here aren't zionist and don't make cause and stick to the true EDL message, a vocal few will try and make us all look like right-wing idiots.

this really has fkuc all to do with isreal, pls don't let those wnakers give u a false view of who the people of the EDL are.
UK4Ever Could you enlighten me please, not really sure what your on about
here.

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Mahihkan
Dec 7 2010, 05:45 PM
uk4ever
Dec 7 2010, 08:08 AM
Mahihkan
Dec 7 2010, 07:56 AM
another thing you might want to discuss about the EDL is how these cnut zionists and right-wingers are always trying to make cause with us.

ironic when we're all talking about the religious settlers here in the UK.

most of us here aren't zionist and don't make cause and stick to the true EDL message, a vocal few will try and make us all look like right-wing idiots.

this really has fkuc all to do with isreal, pls don't let those wnakers give u a false view of who the people of the EDL are.
UK4Ever Could you enlighten me please, not really sure what your on about
here.

He should know we support Israel's right to exist and that is the official line.
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Andy Wilders
Dec 7 2010, 11:00 AM
Try to include a section on Islamism, what it means and where would this fall left/ right spectrum.
ask a muslim if hes left or right and he'll look at you like a fool and say "i'm muslim"

cant remember who said that but it is brilliant.
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Mahihkan
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Thanks guys! I was left wondering how pointing out the link between Islam and the Nazi's made me a right-winger.

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tulsa9856thomas
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..V..
once you have done your essay post it on here mate so we can have a giggle
sorry ment read
would be nice to see whats been said also if it goes into a debate record it and post it on here
cheers
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aluman
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jayfer72
Dec 6 2010, 11:47 PM
V when you put your assignment together do it as tho you are a complete neutral..

what i mean is take a step back and your opening gambit should be something like - what is a right wing group, and what defines a group as being right wing in the eyes of the public...

then you can say that during your research into the EDL you found out that the EDL are embracing all religions, creeds, colours and sexes into its ranks, give and show examples either in a powerpoint format or from scanned photos clearly showing different coloured people and ensure the rainbow flag is in at least one of your pictures. If as you say your lecturer is a typical lefty, as him what his views on the EDL are.

Or take a different stand and research the MDL etc or even the UAF. Show footage of the UAF at bolton (last series of coppers) and ask the question if there were no islamic extremists in the UK milking the UK etc, would there be a need for the EDL.
I like it good post
ALUMAN HAS BEEN GAGGED FOR TELLING THE TRUTH
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Mahihkan
Dec 7 2010, 06:25 PM
Thanks guys! I was left wondering how pointing out the link between Islam and the Nazi's made me a right-winger.

Don't waste your breath mate. he's one of a few little agitators on here, just wait for one of usual suspects to come on.
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waspish
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Your typical example of a politics lecturer in Higher Education? :)
an ex student, useually a left thinking (marxist) ideological believer who useually supports the beliefs of anyone who agrees with their own exacting standards of fairness, political agenda and or their views of a nation dictated to by those who believe they are interlectually removed from the same people they are said to represent. (they simply believe everyone else is stupid and ignorant) George Orwells animal farm fits the easy introduction to leftist elitist idea of knowing what is best for everyone exept themselves. These people suffer from the worst type of self important patronisation of people they deem inferior to themselves. Its a little like a preist who has never had sex or love, lecturing a prostitute on the values of family life and abstainance. She has never had love either, but she knows what she doesnt want and that is the opinion of a man. (almost all prostitutes are female but not all) how could he possibly give her advice on something that neither of them understand. (in this case love between a happy couple) leftists are very good at telling others how not to think, but they are useless at giving reasons as to why they shouldnt think it so the only thing left to them to get their point across is, to shout at the person until they are beaten into towing the line.the EDL doesnt fit into a cateagory that the leftist elite can argue against or shout into submission, so they are flailing around at the moment looking for direction ( hence the diminishing attendance of students with a clue) the leftist elite are sat a loss as to how to pigeonhole a cross demographic of people who are coming out in support of the EDL differing groups such as black, white, gay, asian and different classes has simply confused the f**k out of them and they dont know where to attack next.
I was educated (sort of) in the 60s and 70s, when a university education was for the children of doctors, lawyers and the posh folk from the private estates (where we were allowed to deliver papers, but werent expected to read them) with age and experience comes a kind of equality of minds, I can read a busy pub and see trouble coming half a hour before it happens, my friend the lawyer can take me to the pub in a nice car, who has the advantage ? thats for you to decide. life is an education, I can tell you one thing though. Islam is evil, I have witnessed its rise here in my country, I have seen first hand what it does to communities and what it does to ill educated teens with no identity. I have seen what it does to loveley young girls who are sent home for a holiday, girls who used to laugh and chat with my children at school, I Have seen racism first hand and it isnt a black and white thing anymore. It is a struggle for the british people to hang on to their idintity that is being erased by political correctness and the forcing of islam on our nation.evil is evil whatever form it takes and islam is evil believe me... and this time... I wont be shouted down, told im inferior or told to accept it, because this is the end game for o0ur freedom and ill be buggered if my grandchildren will face mecca 5 times daily, ive fought long and hard to be heard and to be respected by my peers and my so called betters, and no f**ker is dragging my lineage back to the 7th century. I/WE owe it to our children and our heritage o make a stand here, and if those who should be in the know cant see it, those who live beside it will have to bring it to their attention and do the stopping its getting too l;ate for jaw jaw jaw and the time is coming for war war war....
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waspish
Dec 7 2010, 06:45 PM
Your typical example of a politics lecturer in Higher Education? :)
an ex student, useually a left thinking (marxist) ideological believer who useually supports the beliefs of anyone who agrees with their own exacting standards of fairness, political agenda and or their views of a nation dictated to by those who believe they are interlectually removed from the same people they are said to represent. (they simply believe everyone else is stupid and ignorant) George Orwells animal farm fits the easy introduction to leftist elitist idea of knowing what is best for everyone exept themselves. These people suffer from the worst type of self important patronisation of people they deem inferior to themselves. Its a little like a preist who has never had sex or love, lecturing a prostitute on the values of family life and abstainance. She has never had love either, but she knows what she doesnt want and that is the opinion of a man. (almost all prostitutes are female but not all) how could he possibly give her advice on something that neither of them understand. (in this case love between a happy couple) leftists are very good at telling others how not to think, but they are useless at giving reasons as to why they shouldnt think it so the only thing left to them to get their point across is, to shout at the person until they are beaten into towing the line.the EDL doesnt fit into a cateagory that the leftist elite can argue against or shout into submission, so they are flailing around at the moment looking for direction ( hence the diminishing attendance of students with a clue) the leftist elite are sat a loss as to how to pigeonhole a cross demographic of people who are coming out in support of the EDL differing groups such as black, white, gay, asian and different classes has simply confused the f**k out of them and they dont know where to attack next.
I was educated (sort of) in the 60s and 70s, when a university education was for the children of doctors, lawyers and the posh folk from the private estates (where we were allowed to deliver papers, but werent expected to read them) with age and experience comes a kind of equality of minds, I can read a busy pub and see trouble coming half a hour before it happens, my friend the lawyer can take me to the pub in a nice car, who has the advantage ? thats for you to decide. life is an education, I can tell you one thing though. Islam is evil, I have witnessed its rise here in my country, I have seen first hand what it does to communities and what it does to ill educated teens with no identity. I have seen what it does to loveley young girls who are sent home for a holiday, girls who used to laugh and chat with my children at school, I Have seen racism first hand and it isnt a black and white thing anymore. It is a struggle for the british people to hang on to their idintity that is being erased by political correctness and the forcing of islam on our nation.evil is evil whatever form it takes and islam is evil believe me... and this time... I wont be shouted down, told im inferior or told to accept it, because this is the end game for o0ur freedom and ill be buggered if my grandchildren will face mecca 5 times daily, ive fought long and hard to be heard and to be respected by my peers and my so called betters, and no f**ker is dragging my lineage back to the 7th century. I/WE owe it to our children and our heritage o make a stand here, and if those who should be in the know cant see it, those who live beside it will have to bring it to their attention and do the stopping its getting too l;ate for jaw jaw jaw and the time is coming for war war war....
Outstanding post...
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stormcrow
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waspish
Dec 7 2010, 06:45 PM
Your typical example of a politics lecturer in Higher Education? :)
an ex student, useually a left thinking (marxist) ideological believer who useually supports the beliefs of anyone who agrees with their own exacting standards of fairness, political agenda and or their views of a nation dictated to by those who believe they are interlectually removed from the same people they are said to represent. (they simply believe everyone else is stupid and ignorant) George Orwells animal farm fits the easy introduction to leftist elitist idea of knowing what is best for everyone exept themselves. These people suffer from the worst type of self important patronisation of people they deem inferior to themselves. Its a little like a preist who has never had sex or love, lecturing a prostitute on the values of family life and abstainance. She has never had love either, but she knows what she doesnt want and that is the opinion of a man. (almost all prostitutes are female but not all) how could he possibly give her advice on something that neither of them understand. (in this case love between a happy couple) leftists are very good at telling others how not to think, but they are useless at giving reasons as to why they shouldnt think it so the only thing left to them to get their point across is, to shout at the person until they are beaten into towing the line.the EDL doesnt fit into a cateagory that the leftist elite can argue against or shout into submission, so they are flailing around at the moment looking for direction ( hence the diminishing attendance of students with a clue) the leftist elite are sat a loss as to how to pigeonhole a cross demographic of people who are coming out in support of the EDL differing groups such as black, white, gay, asian and different classes has simply confused the f**k out of them and they dont know where to attack next.
I was educated (sort of) in the 60s and 70s, when a university education was for the children of doctors, lawyers and the posh folk from the private estates (where we were allowed to deliver papers, but werent expected to read them) with age and experience comes a kind of equality of minds, I can read a busy pub and see trouble coming half a hour before it happens, my friend the lawyer can take me to the pub in a nice car, who has the advantage ? thats for you to decide. life is an education, I can tell you one thing though. Islam is evil, I have witnessed its rise here in my country, I have seen first hand what it does to communities and what it does to ill educated teens with no identity. I have seen what it does to loveley young girls who are sent home for a holiday, girls who used to laugh and chat with my children at school, I Have seen racism first hand and it isnt a black and white thing anymore. It is a struggle for the british people to hang on to their idintity that is being erased by political correctness and the forcing of islam on our nation.evil is evil whatever form it takes and islam is evil believe me... and this time... I wont be shouted down, told im inferior or told to accept it, because this is the end game for o0ur freedom and ill be buggered if my grandchildren will face mecca 5 times daily, ive fought long and hard to be heard and to be respected by my peers and my so called betters, and no f**ker is dragging my lineage back to the 7th century. I/WE owe it to our children and our heritage o make a stand here, and if those who should be in the know cant see it, those who live beside it will have to bring it to their attention and do the stopping its getting too l;ate for jaw jaw jaw and the time is coming for war war war....
absolutely brilliant.very well put mate.
Posted Image

2011....THE YEAR THE UAF DIED.
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lionsingh
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..V..
Dec 6 2010, 06:52 PM
I get you, I want to argue against the EDL being right-wing or having any political affiliations at all, I don't think I made that clear. Sorry. The fact is you were on a list my lecturer gave me of right wing groups and I wanted to sort of prove him wrong...
As you said "The fact is you were on a list my lecturer gave me of right wing groups and I wanted to sort of prove him wrong... "

What organisations were on the list ? Love to know what list the EDL were lumped with.

It's okay..we appreciate wikileaks on these forums.

The list your lecturer came up with ....that should be interesting in what we are with ?

Perhaps ... who ?
How can you prove him wrong if we cant defend up and support you. You wont have to prove him wrong...guess we all will. ..

fairs fair...who was on the list ?
Edited by lionsingh, Dec 7 2010, 07:13 PM.
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16Floyd10
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See if your uni professor can explain:
:
Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader , and a strong demagogic approach.

Racist a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
adjective
having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another:


Nazi. a person with extreme racist or authoritarian views.
a person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way:

Sounds more like a follower of islam.
E E EDL NS
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waspish
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Ask in writing why ? the EDL are there, Question the validity of this reasoning. Ask why the UAF arent there. ask in a reasoned manner and back it up by facts as you have seen here on this forum. Your so called lecturer will have to give a reasoned argument to question your views, at which point, you have thousands of people to argue your topic, i suggest your lecturer is trying to skew your views of politics and of left/right thinking with his/her own personal beliefs (illegal if im not mistaken in teaching) Im fairly sure that teachers and lecturers arent allowed views on politics or political activity and they must not put students in a position of having to favour one belief or another where politics and moral questions are concerned. If you are feeling that your so called teacher is putting you in a position where your personal beliefs are being put on trial, im sure you have the right to report this to the board of govenors or to the uni heirarchy. (apologies for the correct language as to who to go to but i was never allowed to even think that uni was an option.) hey ho. dont feel guilty for questioning people who are (above you) in my experience, these people are clueless when it comes to real life situations, nthey are cossetted and insular. they seldom leave the comfort of their personal clouds. (im not criticising university education her, its just that ive been around a while, and i say it as i see it) Dont feel that you have to meet the bench mark so to say, yoy dont have to agree to what they believe, just show that you understand it. your mind, your opinion and your beliefs are yours, tick the boxes expected by all means. Tell them what they want to hear. dont give them any reason to do you down. but hold on to your roots and your beliefs. see with your own eyes before you accept the politically correct line.
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lionsingh
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so who are the EDL grouped with please ?
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GumboPickles
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Traditionally, the Left includes progressives, social liberals, social democrats, socialists, communists and anarchists.[2][3][4][5] The Right includes conservatives, reactionaries, capitalists, monarchists, nationalists and fascists.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics

I have no shame in being open about having right wing views as I have no shame in being open about having left wing views. It depends on the subject matter. I am no nazi or racist and do not agree in anyway that the EDL is any type of facist collective.

The issue we face today is that our politicians no longer share their own personal views and are more interested in following the party line in order to progress their own careers. Just watch Question Time or a debate in the House of Commons these days. Most MP's are following the script that their peers dictate to them. They have no interest in anything that is deemed as not being politically correct or that may offend someone. We, the British people swallow it like a bad pill. That is why I support the EDL, it is the only place where I can share my views without fear of reprisal. I do not agree with everything the EDL stands for and I do not agree with everything that is said on here, however in the EDL I can be part of the debate and share my views.
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pyrus
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We're not party political, and that makes it difficult to assign us to either political wing.

Other pressure groups (of various kinds) do have much stronger relationships with either the right of the left, but that's often because they've been born of political parties or gain much of their support from a very particular political grouping.

We are truly diverse - uniting socialists, liberals and conservatives - so it makes little sense to describe us in right/left terms, at least in any way that compares directly political parties.

Some groups, like American's Tea Party movement, are grounded on principles that are fundamentally tied to one side of the political spectrum. Less government interference in people's lives - more freedom - that's got right wing written all over it.

We are making a political point, but it's not one that's fundamentally tied to either the left or the right. Both the left and right have equally good reasons for wanting to oppose the spread of radical Islam.

One of the main reasons that we are portrayed as right wing is that nationalism is often identified with the right (it's not an essential relationship, but it's one that's stuck - possibly grounded on the old distinction between national socialism and communism - both left wing ideologies in a number of ways - but I digress...).

The term 'far right', as I'm sure everyone will be fully aware, has become a useful tool for anyone wishing to demonise their opponents (far more emotive than 'far left', which is just as misunderstood, but not as effective). So it makes sense for our opponents to encourage the view that we are a right wing movement.

But the appeal of the far right 'tag' goes further than that. It's part of the old Nazi-Commie dichotomy - two equally dangerous ideologies best understood as extreme versions of right and left - ideologies that reflect the left/right distinctions of 'mainstream' politics, but are beyond the pale.

Therefore, far right and far left politics exist in something of a bubble - they are notions based on the traditional left/right distinction, but never truly reflective of it. They form a symbiotic relationship - two sides of a bad coin.

It is simply not the case that the far right are to the 'far side' of the right, and that the far left are to the far side of the left - rather, the far left and the far right are off gallivanting together somewhere else, quite removed from the modern understanding of left/right politics.

To muddy the waters a little more, whilst the general understanding of what it means to be politically left or politically right doesn't vary too greatly across the world (excepting disagreements on how exactly libertarian and authoritarian perspectives necessarily fit into the mix), what it means in practice can vary hugely. Americans, for example, have a vastly different idea of what it means to be on the left than the Swedes.

The huge influence of American politics also makes it difficult to avoid seeing the left/right distinction through eyes heavily influenced by the American perspective.

The point being that whilst there are principles that are essential to the right and to the left, where exactly the two sides meet depends on your own nation's domestic scale, and the external influences on how you perceive your own domestic politics.

Of course proponents of each political wing always enjoy blaming the other for anything unpleasant, so you'll have to take this next comment with a pinch of salt...

...maybe the EDL is thought of as right wing because its opponent, radical and political Islam, embodies some of the very worst characteristics of the political left
(All about me: http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3771350/)

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albionuk
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..V..
Dec 6 2010, 06:38 PM
I have to compare three right wing groups from three different countries,
Define 'right wing'
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lancastrian
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Some wonderful posts here and waspish, your contribution was superb.

..v.., all I can say is it's no use screwing up your marks by getting up your lecturer's nose, even if he is a cnut. As someone said, a neutral standpoint is best
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pyrus
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neutrality is so boring.. you never know, the chap might applaud you for making things interesting

..maybe
(All about me: http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3771350/)

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