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secular state
Topic Started: Dec 6 2010, 03:19 PM (206 Views)
patriotic
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just been wondering if the edl should campaign for the uk to become a secular state?
im sure a lot of people would support the seperation of politics and religion plus it could only help against radical islam?
just a thought :wub:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state
Edited by patriotic, Dec 6 2010, 03:20 PM.
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The UK is secular, but with traditions based upon Christianity
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patriotic
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well we dont seem to be following the rules very well.
taken from wiki

A secular state is a concept of secularism, whereby a state or country purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion.[1] A secular state also claims to treat all its citizens equally regardless of religion, and claims to avoid preferential treatment for a citizen from a particular religion/nonreligion over other religions/nonreligion. Secular states do not have a state religion or equivalent, although the absence of a state religion does not guarentee that a state is secular.

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rita.ar
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patriotic
Dec 6 2010, 03:19 PM
just been wondering if the edl should campaign for the uk to become a secular state?
im sure a lot of people would support the seperation of politics and religion plus it could only help against radical islam?
just a thought :wub:
my own view - edl should remain focussed on its raison d'etre

there's enough ppl want us to become a secular state - theyre part of the problem being the same ones who want special treatment for the special ones

a secular state wld become a free-for-all - which would actually mean a freeer-for-some-than-others (bad enough as it is now, dont try to make it worse!)

just my tuppence
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patriotic
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like i said, just a thought. appreciate your point of view, pat
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patriotic
Dec 6 2010, 03:22 PM
well we dont seem to be following the rules very well.
That is probably why the EDL exists mate. But the UK is to all intent and purpose secular
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patriotic
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VillaLoyal
Dec 6 2010, 03:23 PM
patriotic
Dec 6 2010, 03:22 PM
well we dont seem to be following the rules very well.
That is probably why the EDL exists mate. But the UK is to all intent and purpose secular
yeah, your right lol! :X
i didnt know we were a secular state. i know france is
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Xboxgen
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thats a terrible idea. politics should always favour Christianity. but with Lord Ahmed putting his hand on the Kuran when being sworn in it is debatable whether it is secular already.
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uniondefender
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VillaLoyal
Dec 6 2010, 03:20 PM
The UK is secular, but with traditions based upon Christianity
I think this has to be the model promoted by the EDL.

If we have a state based on Christianity then we would have to outlaw abortion, divorce, gambling, alcohol and sex outside marriage.

Isn't the whole idea of the EDL to protect our secular society from those who want to take us back to the stone ages?
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uniondefender
Dec 6 2010, 03:42 PM
Isn't the whole idea of the EDL to protect our secular society from those who want to take us back to the stone ages?
Personally I agree with you there mate
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Peter67
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I would welcome a secular state at some point in the future...I am against all religion per se but I can fully understand why many believe in a creator/after-life and all that mallarkey. Many of our laws are historically and rightly so based on the christian tradition of our forefathers and the true religion of Mr J H Christ (not the versions created by christian fundamentalists) is not a bad one to "loosely" base a society on but in a truly modern way.....unlike some we could mention !

I would defend anyone's right to be religous so long as their version of religion does not wish me dead.
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uniondefender
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There's definitely two main strands in EDL thinking being revealed here.
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if it was a secular state,for-

1/ would it not be i thought country not state?

2/ do all the natonal flags have to go,no religion to rule or influence the counrty?

3/would secularism become a fascist state do you think,mind control and the likes?


keep the faith

paxi :)
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Idjut Bungmewonga
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I personally would like a secular state, but whether it is the EDL's business to campaign on this is another matter, I think they've got enough on their plate campaigning against islamism !

I have no more time for Christians or New Age Gurus telling me what i should and should'nt do with my life than I have for Islamists,Leftists or Nazis telling me what to do !
Winston Churchill on Islam ; ' The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world....
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Idjut Bungmewonga
Dec 6 2010, 04:47 PM
I personally would like a secular state, but whether it is the EDL's business to campaign on this is another matter, I think they've got enough on their plate campaigning against islamism !

I have no more time for Christians or New Age Gurus telling me what i should and should'nt do with my life than I have for Islamists,Leftists or Nazis telling me what to do !
you have a flag on your avi, that shows christian saints? how does that match up with what you have said?
im not getting funny about this just confused a little.

keep the faith

paxi :)
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Personally I'm all for the end of religion, but I'm quite happy to march alongside the many patriotic Christians in this organisation, and I'd take living under Jesus's teachings over those of Muhammad's any day. Sort out the Muslim problem first, then we can see if it's worth it turning our attention into making the UK a totally secular state.
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ignominius
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It's a pity that Peter67 spouts off about something he knows nothing about. A Christian fundementalist and there are a variety. I'm one for instance, but the kind of fundementalism is not the one that people identify with in the United States. There is a growing movement within Christian circles to move the faith back to it's Jewish roots and that is the fundementalism I am involved with. The all Christian fundementalism is about getting back to the original teachings of the bible and of Yeshua. The 'fundementalism' talked about and sneered at by the left and atheists is acutally a stream of Christianity which has almost no bearing on the teachings of Christ or of the Bible and is seen particularly in the US. This is observed in those kinds of churches which call for gays to be ostracised or people attacked who work at abortion clinics. These people are as about as Christian as Moa Tse Tung was! They are not Christian fundementalists. The term is used as term of derision to belittle real Christianity.

As for separation of church and state, that's good and should be the way. All states should be secular in that sense. However, all states are guided by an ideology or belief system. I cannot think of a more just or fairer system than that on which British Common Law was built on which is based largely on Christian teachings.
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Idjut Bungmewonga
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paxi christi
Dec 6 2010, 04:55 PM
Idjut Bungmewonga
Dec 6 2010, 04:47 PM
I personally would like a secular state, but whether it is the EDL's business to campaign on this is another matter, I think they've got enough on their plate campaigning against islamism !

I have no more time for Christians or New Age Gurus telling me what i should and should'nt do with my life than I have for Islamists,Leftists or Nazis telling me what to do !
you have a flag on your avi, that shows christian saints? how does that match up with what you have said?
im not getting funny about this just confused a little.

keep the faith

paxi :)
The Union Jack is taken by everyone to represent Britain, I don't look seriously into the original symbolism - if the British people chose a different flag as a symbol of democracy,freedom and a love of our green and pleasant lands, I'd be perfectly happy to use that !
Winston Churchill on Islam ; ' The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world....
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ignominius
Dec 6 2010, 05:06 PM
British Common Law was built on which is based largely on Christian teachings.
With the greatest of respect mate, I think British common law is based on practicalities such as keeping the status quo, agenda (at the time), order, status, ownership etc rather than religion
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Idjut Bungmewonga
Dec 6 2010, 05:14 PM
paxi christi
Dec 6 2010, 04:55 PM
Idjut Bungmewonga
Dec 6 2010, 04:47 PM
I personally would like a secular state, but whether it is the EDL's business to campaign on this is another matter, I think they've got enough on their plate campaigning against islamism !

I have no more time for Christians or New Age Gurus telling me what i should and should'nt do with my life than I have for Islamists,Leftists or Nazis telling me what to do !
you have a flag on your avi, that shows christian saints? how does that match up with what you have said?
im not getting funny about this just confused a little.

keep the faith

paxi :)
The Union Jack is taken by everyone to represent Britain, I don't look seriously into the original symbolism - if the British people chose a different flag as a symbol of democracy,freedom and a love of our green and pleasant lands, I'd be perfectly happy to use that !
then you should.you have to know yourself when facing the enemy.

the same as sharia/islam. people say they just take it for granted that it is just for them not us.that is pure ingnorance at its best.

and you would go with the flow of a new flag?if evry one else wanted one.does that mean you will follow like a sheep or you want it changed? remember im only curios

keep he faith

paxi :)
VillaLoyal
Dec 6 2010, 05:20 PM
ignominius
Dec 6 2010, 05:06 PM
British Common Law was built on which is based largely on Christian teachings.
With the greatest of respect mate, I think British common law is based on practicalities such as keeping the status quo, agenda (at the time), order, status, ownership etc rather than religion
and what have the romans ever done for us then?lol

keep the faith

paxi :)
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Peter67
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ignominius
Dec 6 2010, 05:06 PM
It's a pity that Peter67 spouts off about something he knows nothing about. A Christian fundementalist and there are a variety.

The 'fundementalism' talked about and sneered at by the left and atheists is acutally a stream of Christianity which has almost no bearing on the teachings of Christ or of the Bible and is seen particularly in the US. This is observed in those kinds of churches which call for gays to be ostracised or people attacked who work at abortion clinics. These people are as about as Christian as Moa Tse Tung was!

That's what I was talking about.......so why the is it "a pity" that I "SPOUT OFF"....i'm not spouting anything, I was just joining the discussion..."something I know nothing about"?..why do you assume this is something I know nothing about? You're talking about the same thing that I was talking about, but I know nothing apparently!!

Sorry, I am not interested in arguing, I am just defending my post which I feel you have chosen to make a point of.
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new faces and names on the forum of late...........
understanding comes in time.

keep the faith

paxi :)
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squarepeg
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ignominius
Dec 6 2010, 05:06 PM
It's a pity that Peter67 spouts off about something he knows nothing about. A Christian fundementalist and there are a variety. I'm one for instance, but the kind of fundementalism is not the one that people identify with in the United States. There is a growing movement within Christian circles to move the faith back to it's Jewish roots and that is the fundementalism I am involved with. The all Christian fundementalism is about getting back to the original teachings of the bible and of Yeshua. The 'fundementalism' talked about and sneered at by the left and atheists is acutally a stream of Christianity which has almost no bearing on the teachings of Christ or of the Bible and is seen particularly in the US. This is observed in those kinds of churches which call for gays to be ostracised or people attacked who work at abortion clinics. These people are as about as Christian as Moa Tse Tung was! They are not Christian fundementalists. The term is used as term of derision to belittle real Christianity.

As for separation of church and state, that's good and should be the way. All states should be secular in that sense. However, all states are guided by an ideology or belief system. I cannot think of a more just or fairer system than that on which British Common Law was built on which is based largely on Christian teachings.
Can I as an atheist just say that bit about fundamentalism is spot on. The nicest, most accepting, and least judgemental people I have ever met have been fundies.
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