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England a Christian Country or a muslim country?; Jesus Vs Muhammed
Topic Started: Nov 7 2010, 02:14 AM (1,242 Views)
Xboxgen
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I don't know where to start really. i'll try my best to explain. I was having a conversation with a girl who happens to be a Muslim. I happened to say that England is a Christian country. she said. I have to stop you there. I don't believe England is a christian country. at this point I got heated. I told her in no certain terms that England is a Christian Country that the Queen of England and Northern Ireland is the Head of the Church of England. we are and will always be a Christian Country. I shouted some other facts at her. then she came at me with yeah but what power does the Queen Have! I told her she has the power to disolve government in this country. she has the ultimate say on everything. which I wasn't 100% sure of to be honest I will check. but I needed to make my argument strong. I thought that was it but she came back at me with yeah but English people in this country aren't religious. still I wasn't beaten. I said to her why? because we don't go to church? we don't have to I said. we can have a personal relationship with Jesus and God from anywhere. I told her just because we don't push our religious Beliefs on others doesn't mean we are not religious. I was angry with her perceptions. it made me think that this is what all Muslims believe. it also put into my head another thought, that if Islamics in this country think that or even worse if that is true then it would be so easy for Islam to become the biggest 'religious' faith in this country.
I am a Christian. that is our Culture. it is you know. we shouldn't turn away from it like we have done for so long. the Idea of having to sit through a church service isn't that appealing to me but i'm going to start going. I'm going to go to church tomorrow. I know we have alot of sceptics and Atheists here. I don't say you don't have the right to believe and think what you want. free thinking people is what this country needs. but if you have faith in Jesus in Christianity. show it. with Pride. let them report on the news that their has been a record increase in church attendance. encourage others to go. it is our culture. we have to hang on to it. not give it away to Islam. we need to make the Church important again.

I truely hope others feel as strong about this as I do.

I accept Jesus as my Lord and savior.
Edited by Xboxgen, Nov 7 2010, 02:16 AM.
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Silo
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You know bro we need a country wide revival here in Britain...just like in Wales around 1910-1912 If i remember correct...Where Gods power was strong enough to knock people to the ground at a sea port when a boat with Christians was few miles away, where miracles were breaking out in the streets like never before...

There is a big revival coming, a single day doesn't go by where I wait for that day where we will see this nation really get its knee's to embrace Jesus.
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Xboxgen
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Silo
Nov 7 2010, 03:32 AM
You know bro we need a country wide revival here in Britain...just like in Wales around 1910-1912 If i remember correct...Where Gods power was strong enough to knock people to the ground at a sea port when a boat with Christians was few miles away, where miracles were breaking out in the streets like never before...

There is a big revival coming, a single day doesn't go by where I wait for that day where we will see this nation really get its knee's to embrace Jesus.
it's difficult to convince anyone of anything. I think it would take a miracle to get people back into the churches. it feels to me like it is my duty to go tomorrow and i'm looking forward to it. i'm sure I will feel uncomfortable and out of place seeing as I haven't been for years apart from a funeral a year or so ago but i'm going to brave it. it will be a new experience. in that I'm going of my own accord. I think it will be actually quite cool. my girl friend don't know yet but i'm taking her with me. I think it will be a nice thing. wholesome anyway and I will be stronger for it.
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Silo
Nov 7 2010, 03:32 AM
There is a big revival coming, a single day doesn't go by where I wait for that day where we will see this nation really get its knee's to embrace Jesus.

Not for me, I have no intention of bowing of being slave to any religion - ever.

However, going back to the op, I think this'll not be easy for you. If the lady has had a lifelong course in islamic enlightenment to the point of total obedience to islam you may find your work cut out.

Your approch seems to be based on logic and reasoning for the discussion but this has to be receivrd in the same manner, is this remotely possible? However prepared for debate you may be, progress with your arguments may well fall upon deaf ears if her mind is closed to the logic and reason you present.

Adopting standpoints from directly opposing religious divides may be less advantageous to you than positioning yourself in the middle ground/a neutral (religious) position to counter her argument first via logic and reason. She may be a little more approachable if she doesn't think or feel you're trying to convert her! (I'm assuming you're not.) Get her to explain her view then take it to pieces with logic and reasoning (or underatanding if that is the case) - see, middle ground? BTW: Did she say why she thought England wasn't a christian country?

As an atheist I would say that England is definately NOT a christian country, more that it's precise to say that the overwhelming majority of the population have been christian and practitioners of the christain faith for many hundreds of years.
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Xboxgen
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Christine Patriot
Nov 7 2010, 04:31 AM
Silo
Nov 7 2010, 03:32 AM
There is a big revival coming, a single day doesn't go by where I wait for that day where we will see this nation really get its knee's to embrace Jesus.

Not for me, I have no intention of bowing of being slave to any religion - ever.

However, going back to the op, I think this'll not be easy for you. If the lady has had a lifelong course in islamic enlightenment to the point of total obedience to islam you may find your work cut out.

Your approch seems to be based on logic and reasoning for the discussion but this has to be receivrd in the same manner, is this remotely possible? However prepared for debate you may be, progress with your arguments may well fall upon deaf ears if her mind is closed to the logic and reason you present.

Adopting standpoints from directly opposing religious divides may be less advantageous to you than positioning yourself in the middle ground/a neutral (religious) position to counter her argument first via logic and reason. She may be a little more approachable if she doesn't think or feel you're trying to convert her! (I'm assuming you're not.) Get her to explain her view then take it to pieces with logic and reasoning (or underatanding if that is the case) - see, middle ground? BTW: Did she say why she thought England wasn't a christian country?

As an atheist I would say that England is definately NOT a christian country, more that it's precise to say that the overwhelming majority of the population have been christian and practitioners of the christain faith for many hundreds of years.
England is a Christian Country. Christian because of the reigning monarch and the church of England. we are a christian country. alot of non Christians live here in peace but it doesn't take away from the fact England is a Christian country.

I've not been a big fan of organised religion since I first started forming my own opinions but I feel that the more redundant Christianity becomes the more powerful Islam is becoming. I'm a big fan of the Godfather, there's a line in it 'your enemies always get strong on what you leave behind'
I think we give up our culture too easy, Christianity being a huge part of our identity. she was refering to the fact that English people don't go to church anymore and are without religion.

then again when i'm working and driving around london on a friday I think English people are too busy working to pay their benefits to goto church cause somehow I see hundreds apon hundreds of Muslims all hanging outside mosques on a friday. I don't see how they can all get the time off work. they can afford to be religious on the backs of the poor Englishman.

I've got nothing against Atheists by the way christine. I used to be one. ;)
Edited by Xboxgen, Nov 7 2010, 05:11 AM.
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I don't get all this kneeling and bowing sh1t. I really don't. Nobody is any better or more important than anybody else. Kneeling and bowing to anybody, real or imaginary, is a personal form of defeatism.
We have a legal system that's based on Christianity and it works, when it's applied properly and without favour to our peaceful friends. The fact that it usually works is a happy co-incidence as far as I'm concerned and not a reason for otherwise sane people to tug their forelocks to their 'betters'.
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Xboxgen
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I really don't know Elgreco. perhaps if people become more religious in regards to Christianity it could create more of a bitter rivalry between Christians and Muslims. Either way I feel better off for being Christian.
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If it works for you, then fair play to you.
One thing is for sure, there is only one religion that is threatening the well-being of me and mine and it isn't Christianity.
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Elgreco
Nov 7 2010, 05:50 AM
If it works for you, then fair play to you.
One thing is for sure, there is only one religion that is threatening the well-being of me and mine and it isn't Christianity.
I believe in god but if i'm wrong i'm wrong. I'm cool with that but if i'm right I know one thing and that is God isn't on the side of my enemies.
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lan-astaslem
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Elgreco
Nov 7 2010, 05:22 AM
I don't get all this kneeling and bowing sh1t. I really don't. Nobody is any better or more important than anybody else. Kneeling and bowing to anybody, real or imaginary, is a personal form of defeatism.
How do you feel when you are at a demo with hundreds of others who believe the same as you
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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Xboxgen
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lan-astaslem
Nov 7 2010, 08:14 AM
Elgreco
Nov 7 2010, 05:22 AM
I don't get all this kneeling and bowing sh1t. I really don't. Nobody is any better or more important than anybody else. Kneeling and bowing to anybody, real or imaginary, is a personal form of defeatism.
How do you feel when you are at a demo with hundreds of others who believe the same as you
hundreds of people at demo's feel that way about Christianity? are you sure? cause thats like saying no Christians turn out for Demo's.
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Mad One
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The main belief of this country many years ago was Pagan. That was before the Romans invaded. If I’m not mistaken it was the Romans that brought Christianity here. As with many invasions of their day, they blend into the society and their beliefs / religions blend in with them gradually wiping out the previous beliefs.

Sounds pretty much like what is happening today with the Muslims. They are invading, not in the sense of running battles with the natives, but in the sense of the influx that’s coming over here and settling, slowly pushing the natives out of small areas. These areas grow and grow and before you know it you have whole communities that are Muslim.

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caesar
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Mad One
Nov 7 2010, 08:58 AM
Sounds pretty much like what is happening today with the Muslims. They are invading, not in the sense of running battles with the natives, but in the sense of the influx that’s coming over here and settling, slowly pushing the natives out of small areas. These areas grow and grow and before you know it you have whole communities that are Muslim.

This sketch of yours doesn't put the blame where it ought to be: our own governments. This is why I disapprove of the term "invading"! It is a fact that the muslims are "welcomed in" our European civilization.
Religion is the true philosophy
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Mad One
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caesar
Nov 7 2010, 09:12 AM
Mad One
Nov 7 2010, 08:58 AM
Sounds pretty much like what is happening today with the Muslims. They are invading, not in the sense of running battles with the natives, but in the sense of the influx that’s coming over here and settling, slowly pushing the natives out of small areas. These areas grow and grow and before you know it you have whole communities that are Muslim.

This sketch of yours doesn't put the blame where it ought to be: our own governments. This is why I disapprove of the term "invading"! It is a fact that the muslims are "welcomed in" our European civilization.
Yes it’s the fault of the government, but it’s early in the morning (my excuse), and I wasn’t trying to portion the blame on anyone, I was trying to liken it to previous times when the belief / religion of this country have changed. Perhaps invasion is the wrong word, can’t think, haven’t had my cuppa yet :-)
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Xboxgen
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what are we in defence of if not Christianity? it is such a massive part of our identity, our traditions, our history. the fact we are Christian we can celebrate other cultures and religions, we protect other religions within the confines of our Christian way of life. some people here may have no interest in religion whatsoever. which is fair enough. its the fact we are a Christian nation we protect those with no belief in god too but at our core we are Christian. we should be fighting for the Church of England, our monarch Queen Elizabeth II, the land under our feet and each other including all the religious beliefs and cultures who care about the same things we do. I love my country. I know everyone here does too. we're not anarchists. we stand in defence of our beautiful country.
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Mad One
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Quote:
 
An invasion is a military offensive consisting of all, or large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively entering territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government, or a combination thereof. An invasion can be the cause of a war, be a part of a larger strategy to end a war, or it can constitute an entire war in itself. Due to the large scale of the operations associated with invasions, they are usually strategic in planning and execution.
from wikipedia

Yes I think invading is the right word, all right it’s not a military invasion but the objective is the same. And yes you are still right it is the fault of the government.

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lan-astaslem
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Mad One
Nov 7 2010, 10:10 AM
And yes you are still right it is the fault of the government.

Not exactly correct
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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Xboxgen
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church wasn't bad. after to the pub for a nice roast. pretty successful trip and the misses didn't complain one bit. what I said before stands. England is a Christian Country and should always remain so. its a massive part of our culture, our history, our identity. take Christianity away and we may as well hand it over to the Islamists. thats whats happening anyway. if your faith is Christian be proud of it.
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getonwithit
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see enough Christmas trees every year to show Christmas is thriving.
The Clash, doing Tommy Gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh0orhvcxBY&feature=share
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Steve Freedom
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Xboxgen
Nov 7 2010, 05:58 PM
church wasn't bad. after to the pub for a nice roast. pretty successful trip and the misses didn't complain one bit. what I said before stands. England is a Christian Country and should always remain so. its a massive part of our culture, our history, our identity. take Christianity away and we may as well hand it over to the Islamists. thats whats happening anyway. if your faith is Christian be proud of it.
me n my wife went to our local church today too ,i've been back in the fold for a month ,wifes second visit too .
I i agree mate its the same reason i went back if we dont use it we lose it and i am not losing my identity and heritage to Islamics
“The modern definition of "racist" is "someone who is winning an argument with a liberal” --- Peter Brimelow
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infidel 9755
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i cant make my mind up with god, some days we're good mates and other days (usely bad days) i dont belive for a second theres a chap sat somewere all high and mighty. i have been tempted for a while to go to church.
'islam should get what ever it demands, all criticism of it is racism' -Pat Condell

Dont bite the hand that feeds you,
it may punch you in the face.
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me,my wife,son and dughter went to mass this morning,it was dedicated to the dead.it was really nice and thought provoking on the people i knew from the past to be reflected on and prayed for.

keep the faith

paxi :)
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I believe as Europe and the west moves farther away from Christ the faster it shall fall. You cannot complain about islam taking over while at the same time not going to Church and leaving behind the foundations of your country. Christ is the foundation of our countries and the weaker the foundation the easier they shall fall.
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JackRipper
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England is a Christian country on paper, but in reality, however much you want it, the Christian churches aint ever gonna be full again. I truly believe that in a coupla hundred years that all religions will have died a natural death as people realise how pointless they are - and that includes the special religion. My worry is what will happen before that point is reached.
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infidel 9755
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JackRipper
Nov 7 2010, 07:02 PM
England is a Christian country on paper, but in reality, however much you want it, the Christian churches aint ever gonna be full again. I truly believe that in a coupla hundred years that all religions will have died a natural death as people realise how pointless they are - and that includes the special religion. My worry is what will happen before that point is reached.
agreed, there will be alot more wars before then.
'islam should get what ever it demands, all criticism of it is racism' -Pat Condell

Dont bite the hand that feeds you,
it may punch you in the face.
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JackRipper
Nov 7 2010, 07:02 PM
England is a Christian country on paper, but in reality, however much you want it, the Christian churches aint ever gonna be full again. I truly believe that in a coupla hundred years that all religions will have died a natural death as people realise how pointless they are - and that includes the special religion. My worry is what will happen before that point is reached.
i bet julius ceaser said something very similar back in his day ,lol.
i say this with respect but,what a load of nonscence i think.

keep the faith

paxi :)
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tobias malachi
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Hi Xboxgen Iam a Christian and I could give you loads of waffle, but my only advice is visit several churches until you find one that suits you, I like a liveley church one that has guitar and drums and a youngish congregation, to me a church is nothing without children, but you may prefer something quiter, it is where you feel comfortable and relaxed.
God bless.
Tobias Malachi
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England is a secular country but with its traditions and culture based on Protestantism. I do think with the decline of organised religion Islam is somewhat 'filling a void' where before even mild adherence to Christian beliefs has disappeared
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4MERLINS
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Not for me, I have no intention of bowing of being slave to any religion - ever.

Be free in Our Lord JESUS CHRIST.

The bible states than in the last days Men will be lovers of Men, Haughty ,proud and arrogant..

Open your eyes, its not about being a complete angel, no man or woman is perfect, its about the fact that were all born and ultimately we all die, dont u see this is just a game?? i know where i want to spend all eternity there after.
i must admit though the Church, be it Catholic, or C of E are drunk on the blood ofthe saints (accumalted wealth that jesus no doubt would of donated to the poor and starving!!) pick up a newspaper their is sum peodophillic priest whos been bumming the choir boys or sum naughty vicar thats been fondling the congregation. these events are very disturbing and great ammunition for atheists not to want a part of holy life. I found Jesus through Pentcostal Church, they provide young and dynamic services without the dogma and stiff sermons. They are full of the spirit and really inspire through prayer , song, talk and ultimetly faith. God works in mysterious ways, he is in my opinion raising an army of true beleivers as we speak.
Edited by 4MERLINS, Nov 7 2010, 08:13 PM.
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Xboxgen
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VillaLoyal
Nov 7 2010, 07:33 PM
England is a secular country but with its traditions and culture based on Protestantism. I do think with the decline of organised religion Islam is somewhat 'filling a void' where before even mild adherence to Christian beliefs has disappeared
my sentiments precisely. Islam is filling the Void. Even Atheists should turn up even if it is just to protest Islam. the Church I was at today wasn't empty either. I half imagined it would be. you know just a lonely vicar talking to himself delighted that at least somebody turned up but it wasn't like that. quite a mixed bunch and a few types you wouldn't expect to see aswell as families. the church was bright and clean and the Vicar even made a couple of jokes that wern't too terrible either. it was really a pleasent, no complaints. I intend on making it a regular thing. I want to make that effort.
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Xboxgen
Nov 7 2010, 11:14 PM
VillaLoyal
Nov 7 2010, 07:33 PM
England is a secular country but with its traditions and culture based on Protestantism. I do think with the decline of organised religion Islam is somewhat 'filling a void' where before even mild adherence to Christian beliefs has disappeared
my sentiments precisely. Islam is filling the Void. Even Atheists should turn up even if it is just to protest Islam. the Church I was at today wasn't empty either. I half imagined it would be. you know just a lonely vicar talking to himself delighted that at least somebody turned up but it wasn't like that. quite a mixed bunch and a few types you wouldn't expect to see aswell as families. the church was bright and clean and the Vicar even made a couple of jokes that wern't too terrible either. it was really a pleasent, no complaints. I intend on making it a regular thing. I want to make that effort.
Good deal. ^_^
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Wasp
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Being a Christian country has far more than simply going to church. For starters, our entire legal system is based on the Judaic/Christian teachings of the Bible. It's the Christian values that made this country tolerant to others and generous to those who are less fortunate than ourselves. For example, the British are among the most generous donors to charities (along with Christians in other parts of the world).

Next time you meet a Muslim like that one, ask him or her if they are so tolerant and generous to infidels.

You could also point out that Christianity is taught from the New Testament (which is where Christianity begins). There is not a single word, phrase, sentence or paragraph that preaches violence and hatred against others. Unlike the Quran.

And, a warning. Be careful of such conversations with Muslims. They may try to trap you and denounce you for religious hatred. Whereupon the ob will be called and only the Muslim's word will be taken for evidence. Just like those poor sods in Blackpool who ran a hotel.
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Xboxgen
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Wasp
Nov 8 2010, 01:00 AM
Being a Christian country has far more than simply going to church. For starters, our entire legal system is based on the Judaic/Christian teachings of the Bible. It's the Christian values that made this country tolerant to others and generous to those who are less fortunate than ourselves. For example, the British are among the most generous donors to charities (along with Christians in other parts of the world).

Next time you meet a Muslim like that one, ask him or her if they are so tolerant and generous to infidels.

You could also point out that Christianity is taught from the New Testament (which is where Christianity begins). There is not a single word, phrase, sentence or paragraph that preaches violence and hatred against others. Unlike the Quran.

And, a warning. Be careful of such conversations with Muslims. They may try to trap you and denounce you for religious hatred. Whereupon the ob will be called and only the Muslim's word will be taken for evidence. Just like those poor sods in Blackpool who ran a hotel.
I honestly would't care if they did call the OB. I would call the national news papers. I won't allow Islam to stifle debate. but really good post. It is the Christian values that have allowed this country to be so tollerant and so generous to those less fortunate. 100% you still abide by the laws and practices of England regardless of your religious background. we need to have respect for ourselves and others need to respect that fact. what is so troubling to me is the lack of recognition from people. we need to make the Islamists in this Country recognize we are a Christian Country. it doesn't change the fact that we have multi-faith's within it. only that we are ultimately a Christian nation.
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cornishphoenix
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This is an interesting thread. But I still think we should be wary of going down the line of "defending christian values" or whatever, we should not line up to support ANY religion, but should concentrate on opposing religious extremism.
A world free from ALL religious bigotry is humanity's best hope!
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Xboxgen
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cornishphoenix
Nov 9 2010, 12:42 AM
This is an interesting thread. But I still think we should be wary of going down the line of "defending christian values" or whatever, we should not line up to support ANY religion, but should concentrate on opposing religious extremism.
I agree we should be wary but disagree that we shouldn't line up to support any religion, because defending them is defending ourselves.
I know you said religious extremism but Islam is as far as I am concerned is one in the same, if we were to only oppose Islam that would be doing it for the wrong reasons and would seem like we are picking on Islamics. the UAF would be right to call us Facsists in that case but if we are in defence of something like our way of life which Islam threatens everyone's Christian and non Christian alike then I can't think of a more noble cause. we should always remain mindful that Christianity is thee biggest part of our culture as British Citizens. before we lose it. I really do hear what you've said though and agree in part. but think about this one way or another Islam is more consuming than Christianity in this country. to everyone on this site especially and this shouldn't be the case. if we spent half as much time doing things for our own faith Islam wouldn't have the strength it does today.

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