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controversial i know-Christianity, Islam and Judaism are all alien religions
Topic Started: Nov 5 2010, 12:31 AM (845 Views)
Neverforget
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All come from the middle east, got brought here by foreigners. Im an atheist and think they are all as bad as each other (islam is particularly nasty as the liberals try to present it as the ROP). I hope this does not get put in the cage. What do the lads and ladies here think about this? Do I have a point? Or are non believing atheists not welcome in the edl? ;)
Edited by Neverforget, Nov 5 2010, 12:42 AM.
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Wigone
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Hell yeah, oh well you won;t believe in hell ....definately.
They don't like it up 'em.
Don't tell them your name Pike.
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Neverforget
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Wigone
Nov 5 2010, 12:40 AM
Hell yeah, oh well you won;t believe in hell ....definately.
Yeah I don't. I think its aload of bollocks.
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I don't see why this needs to go in the cage. Unless of course, you have ulterior motives for raising this subject.

Christianity (and the Old Testament) have undoubtedly had a profoundly formative influence not just in the British isles, but throughout Europe.

I'm a buddhist and an atheist. Buddhism is far more alien to this country than Christianity.

I feel that the microwave oven is an alien technology and does not belong in this country.
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repulse
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judaisme started out as a respons for beeing held as a slave by the egypthians, thats why judaisme has very stron social binding, is a very thight group, everybody whit in the group will work for the group.

The romans saw this system and thought that it would be a lot cheaper to have this system in place in the lands they controlled, they saw how the jews would donate money out of free will to the priests. They decided it would be a great way to still get the taxes whit out having to have large army's which costed a lot of money. So they took judaisme en changed it a bit around. The changes they made are the reason why the christian church is loosing power as a opposite of judaism, which still is a strong system but is able to handle itself during times of pressure from other people. The changes are also the basis of the western belief of equality between al man.

mohammed took judaisme and used the strong social basis of it as the basis of his islam, he fooled around a bit whit the rules, created a hirachie around his soldiers(the muslimmen) gave the muslimma more rights as a unbeliever and presto he had a warideologie and we are stuck whit the nonsence of it all.

Humans have no soul, there is no god, if there was a god he would have did the same as he supposed to have done whit sodom and gomora to the vatican and mecca. The excitence of thos 2 places is the best proof you could ask to prove god dousent excist.

Humans are yust the same as computers, we start out whit a empty hard drive and every expirience we have teaches us something. When a computers breaks down, the information is lost and we throw it away, same as a human body.
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AQH
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I see no reason to believe in anyones imaginary friends.
Edited by AQH, Nov 5 2010, 01:25 AM.
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Gorgie
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I like how it seems to be the trend to take a dig at Christianity (or all religion, as in this case) these days. It really shows that the egaltarian liberals have really won.

Be an athiest, that's fine, but stop mocking those who follow religion.

This isn't directed at you by the way mate, just athiests in general :)
"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!"

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."


Winston Churchill
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ignominius
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Well, that's your choice and as a Christian I'll defend your right not to believe in a creator! Modern Atheism is as much a religion as any of the mainstream religions. It's no longer about an absence of belief but it's now a belief in nothing...almost a kind of nihilism. But it's still a valid belief system...I just wish that some Atheists would stop lumping all religions together and and equating them to Islam. In 2000 years of Christian history (that should be historical christianity), there have been wars fought over differences in belief between Christians, and whilst some loss of life resulted it was only other Christians (doesn't make it any better or worse as all loss of life is wrong). The Inquisition though it cost some 5,000 lives over 350 years again were not driven by Christian teaching but by men bent on power. None of the wars caused by men in the name of Christianity were commanded by Christian scripture or teachings.

Judaism has never taken itself beyond it's borders. The only time that judaism has been historically violent is at the start when they were commanded to take the promised lands. Judaism does not command it's adherents to kill or wage war to convert people. It doesn't even do mission like Christianity or Islam. As a non Jew it is up to the individual if they wish to follow Judaism.

Buddhism teaches respect for all life, Hinduism has been at the forefront of human advancement until the arrival of Islam.

Only Islam teaches death and destruction. There is an article somewhere where the number of people murdered worldwide by Islam since it's inception 1400 years ago was estimated. It runs to nearly half a billion people murdered in the name of Allah and of Muhammad.
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BlueStar
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Graffitti on toilet wall:"God is dead" - Friedrich Nietzche.
Written underneath "Nietzche is dead" - God.

You decide. ;)

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repulse
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ignominius, i am a libertarian even more then i am a atheist, i dont care if anybody believes or not the only thing i want is for people to dont force there views on others. I have no problems whit judaisme, no problems whit christianity and not even whit islam. I have a problem when communitys are slowly beeing forced to follow other people's beliefs. You believe and youre happy whit it? Great then i am happy for you!
But yust the same that is alowed for christians (and other religions)to talk about there views, so am i.
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caesar
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When one states that all religions are crap; this isn't really a very original thesis. I heard it many times. Mostly from people who want to find a way out to the problem that islam is not really a religion, so they want to put their head in the sand..
Religion is the true philosophy
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Neverforget
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caesar
Nov 5 2010, 02:26 AM
When one states that all religions are crap; this isn't really a very original thesis. I heard it many times. Mostly from people who want to find a way out to the problem that islam is not really a religion, so they want to put their head in the sand..
I am not putting my head in the sand. I would say Islam is the most aggressive religion out there atm in the uk. The fact that a man has to convert to islam if he wants to marry someone who follows islam etc. The way that no criticism of islam is allowed in this country atm. The way we can't even draw muhammed without some muslim crying and having a hissy fit about it.

They way women in islam are 2nd class citizens is what really gets on my nerves(although Christianity and Judaism- ain't exactly perfect in that respect neither). Also the whole anti homosexual attitudes you get from the muslim 'community' in britain.
Edited by Neverforget, Nov 5 2010, 08:24 AM.
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dinkydee
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gorgie rules
Nov 5 2010, 01:13 AM
I like how it seems to be the trend to take a dig at Christianity (or all religion, as in this case) these days. It really shows that the egaltarian liberals have really won.

Be an athiest, that's fine, but stop mocking those who follow religion.

This isn't directed at you by the way mate, just athiests in general :)
well said. :)
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caesar
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Neverforget
Nov 5 2010, 08:22 AM
They way women in islam are 2nd class citizens is what really gets on my nerves(although Christianity and Judaism- ain't exactly perfect in that respect neither).

Look, what I'm reading here: in islamic countries women are second class citizens by law.. In Christian countries women and men are equal before the law. Or do you have other information?? Takiyya perhaps??

caesar
Nov 5 2010, 09:27 AM
Neverforget
Nov 5 2010, 08:22 AM
They way women in islam are 2nd class citizens is what really gets on my nerves(although Christianity and Judaism- ain't exactly perfect in that respect neither).

sorry fcuked up the quoting in my last posting, of course you noticed; here is what it should be like:

Look, what I'm reading here: in islamic countries women are second class citizens by law.. In Christian countries women and men are equal before the law. Or do you have other information?? Takiyya perhaps??
Edited by caesar, Nov 5 2010, 09:29 AM.
Religion is the true philosophy
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Neverforget
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I was getting at the way in alot of christian movements such as Roman catholic, women are not allowed to be priests. This is the same for Judaism, were women are frowned at from becoming rabbis. Also the catholics frown if women don't dress modestly. Why do you think nuns look abit like headscarfs. I don't even have to talk about islam and women, we all know the appalling way they are treated and as you said its actual law in alot of muslim countries.

Takiyya!You are saying im muslim? Even though I said I personally think god/allah is a sham. Grow up.
Edited by Neverforget, Nov 5 2010, 10:02 AM.
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caesar
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@neverforget: if you equate the fact that here in the Christian Nations we have patriarchal/men-only churches and clubs with the fact that in muslim nations women are officially second class citizens; you are giving a wrong picture of the state of affairs. There are of course also women-only clubs in Christian nations, if I may be so free to add.

I do not think you're a muslim, I just hear that lying about how much Christianity is just as bad as Islam crap enough. It seems to me that that crap-equation is meant to avoid that we confront islam, as it divides us: non-muslims.
Religion is the true philosophy
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ENUFisENUF
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The arguments between believers and atheists will always occur.
There is one sure fire way to settle the argument once and for all and that is for the god in question (of the 2500 odd gods worshipped over the milennia) to show him/her/itself in some irrefutable way.
That would shut us atheists up altogether, guaranteed.

But he/her/it never shows itself in such a way as there would be no doubt of its existence. Believers claim all sorts of things to show god in action but these very same things can always be shown to have a natural origin.

Surely a god capable of creation is also capable of speaking for itself and silencing us atheists once and for all.
“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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Neverforget
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caesar
Nov 5 2010, 10:21 AM
@neverforget: if you equate the fact that here in the Christian Nations we have patriarchal/men-only churches and clubs with the fact that in muslim nations women are officially second class citizens; you are giving a wrong picture of the state of affairs. There are of course also women-only clubs in Christian nations, if I may be so free to add.

I do not think you're a muslim, I just hear that lying about how much Christianity is just as bad as Islam crap enough. It seems to me that that crap-equation is meant to avoid that we confront islam, as it divides us: non-muslims.
For someone who has 5 posts to their name. To claim I was comitting Takia is abit of a cheek and I think you should get a slap on the wrist for that.

What I said was Islam is the worst at fcuking over women. But Christianity and Judaism ain't exactly the most pro womens rights and are patriarchial aswell.
Edited by Neverforget, Nov 5 2010, 10:39 AM.
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thepagan
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As a pagan I couldn't agree more
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caesar
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Neverforget
Nov 5 2010, 10:39 AM
What I said was Islam is the worst at fcuking over women. But Christianity and Judaism ain't exactly the most pro womens rights and are patriarchial aswell.
Well, there is nothing wrong with patriarchal! Many successful families of non-believers are. There are strong condemning words however for how the structure of islamic society is: it's criminal, because it's against human rights. That islamic societies are also patriarchal is not a problem. Christianity and Judaism can not be equated with respect to the rights of women, or even the way women are viewed, to islam. In Islam women are "like cattle" to their husbands. You can, in the whole Bible, not find a single such hateful remark on women.

Are you still bothered by me putting Takiyya with a questionmark in an earlier post? Surely you read the questionmark.. I didn't accuse you of anything.
Religion is the true philosophy
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Idjut Bungmewonga
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BlueStar
Nov 5 2010, 01:27 AM
Graffitti on toilet wall:"God is dead" - Friedrich Nietzche.
Written underneath "Nietzche is dead" - God.

You decide. ;)

Nietzche : "In Heaven, all the interesting people are missing !"
Winston Churchill on Islam ; ' The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world....
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Gorgie
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ENUFisENUF
Nov 5 2010, 10:30 AM
The arguments between believers and atheists will always occur.
There is one sure fire way to settle the argument once and for all and that is for the god in question (of the 2500 odd gods worshipped over the milennia) to show him/her/itself in some irrefutable way.
That would shut us atheists up altogether, guaranteed.

But he/her/it never shows itself in such a way as there would be no doubt of its existence. Believers claim all sorts of things to show god in action but these very same things can always be shown to have a natural origin.

Surely a god capable of creation is also capable of speaking for itself and silencing us atheists once and for all.
Good point.

But maybe He doesn't want to show himself. Maybe he wants to actually see who believes in him? I personally don't know the reason(s). I have some reasons in my head, but who really knows.

"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!"

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."


Winston Churchill
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Neverforget
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caesar
Nov 5 2010, 10:59 AM
Neverforget
Nov 5 2010, 10:39 AM
What I said was Islam is the worst at fcuking over women. But Christianity and Judaism ain't exactly the most pro womens rights and are patriarchial aswell.
Well, there is nothing wrong with patriarchal! Many successful families of non-believers are. There are strong condemning words however for how the structure of islamic society is: it's criminal, because it's against human rights. That islamic societies are also patriarchal is not a problem. Christianity and Judaism can not be equated with respect to the rights of women, or even the way women are viewed, to islam. In Islam women are "like cattle" to their husbands. You can, in the whole Bible, not find a single such hateful remark on women.

Are you still bothered by me putting Takiyya with a questionmark in an earlier post? Surely you read the questionmark.. I didn't accuse you of anything.
You implied it.
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caesar
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Neverforget
Nov 5 2010, 11:26 AM
You implied it.
You implied that I -as a proponent of Christianity and Judaism- am not respectful of women.
Religion is the true philosophy
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Neverforget
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caesar
Nov 5 2010, 11:37 AM
Neverforget
Nov 5 2010, 11:26 AM
You implied it.
You implied that I -as a proponent of Christianity and Judaism- am not respectful of women.
Did I f*ck.
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Sussex 66
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One thing I'd say about Christianity, and not Islam, is that it has many similarities with our ancient religions that came before it.

The basis of many European pre-Christian religions was a myth about a dying and resurrecting god-man, similar to the story of Jesus in the New Testament.

Spring rituals about fertility and the resurrection of nature after the dead of winter tie in well with the resurrection of Jesus, and many ancient customs are included in our Christian Easter and Christmas celebrations.

So, although Christianity is from the same land as Islam, it's not half as 'alien', and helps keep alive our ancient beliefs and customs because of that, whereas Islam would wipe them out altogether.
"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England." - Sir Winston Churchill
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Neverforget
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Sussex 66
Nov 5 2010, 11:53 AM
One thing I'd say about Christianity, and not Islam, is that it has many similarities with our ancient religions that came before it.

The basis of many European pre-Christian religions was a myth about a dying and resurrecting god-man, similar to the story of Jesus in the New Testament.

Spring rituals about fertility and the resurrection of nature after the dead of winter tie in well with the resurrection of Jesus, and many ancient customs are included in our Christian Easter and Christmas celebrations.

So, although Christianity is from the same land as Islam, it's not half as 'alien', and helps keep alive our ancient beliefs and customs because of that, whereas Islam would wipe them out altogether.
You have a point.
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made in England
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Ive debated this on many occasions, yes Christianity,Judaism and Islam all originated in the Middle East furthermore are all cut from the same cloth and most definitely not a Northern European Religion, it was Constantine that originally enforced Christianity onto Rome causing a bloody civil war from which they never really recovered from then expanded into the rest of Europe with catastrophic consequences, centuries later it was Charlemagne that reinforced Christendom and crushed the revolt of other German tribes in the vane attempt to reestablish their indigenous faith, the ancient Saxon chronicles tell us that Charlemagne ordered the savage beheading of over 4ooo saxon warriors for refusing to submit to Christianity.

Heres a concept to ponder over, if by our misfortune Islam was to remain in the UK for the next 2000 years would that also become our natural religion ?
In my opinion the speed Islam is gaining momentum in the UK and Europe along with the Muslim population expansion, the Islamic faith WILL prevail over all other.
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

Werian se Angelcynn
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Neverforget
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Nov 5 2010, 01:21 PM
Ive debated this on many occasions, yes Christianity,Judaism and Islam all originated in the Middle East furthermore are all cut from the same cloth and most definitely not a Northern European Religion, it was Constantine that originally enforced Christianity onto Rome causing a bloody civil war from which they never really recovered from then expanded into the rest of Europe with catastrophic consequences, centuries later it was Charlemagne that reinforced Christendom and crushed the revolt of other German tribes in the vane attempt to reestablish their indigenous faith, the ancient Saxon chronicles tell us that Charlemagne ordered the savage beheading of over 4ooo saxon warriors for refusing to submit to Christianity.

Heres a concept to ponder over, if by our misfortune Islam was to remain in the UK for the next 2000 years would that also become our natural religion ?
In my opinion the speed Islam is gaining momentum in the UK and Europe along with the Muslim population expansion, the Islamic faith WILL prevail over all other.
Cheers thats really interesting. Is their any books you can suggest which talk about this more in detail?
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ENUFisENUF
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Then read a book about the History of Christianity, I'll dig through my bookshelves and see if I can find it. It's a damn good read.
Here's some of what wiki says about Constantine and his Council of Nicaea..
''The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Christian bishops convened in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day İznik in Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in A.D. 325. The Council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.

Its main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the relationship of Jesus to God the Father; the construction of the first part of the Nicene Creed; settling the calculation of the date of Easter; and promulgation of early canon law.
it resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Creed of Nicaea. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent general (ecumenical) councils of Bishops (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy— the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom.

The council did not create the doctrine of the deity of Christ (as is sometimes claimed) but it did settle to some degree the debate within the Early Christian communities regarding the divinity of Christ. This idea of the divinity of Christ along with the idea of Christ as a messenger from the one God ("The Father") had long existed in various parts of the Roman empire. The divinity of Christ had also been widely endorsed by the Christian community in the otherwise pagan city of Rome. The council affirmed and defined what it believed to be the teachings of the Apostles regarding who Christ is: that Christ is the one true God in deity with the Father.''



“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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Sussex 66
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made in England
Nov 5 2010, 01:21 PM
Heres a concept to ponder over, if by our misfortune Islam was to remain in the UK for the next 2000 years would that also become our natural religion ?
In my opinion the speed Islam is gaining momentum in the UK and Europe along with the Muslim population expansion, the Islamic faith WILL prevail over all other.
It might well prevail over all religions the way things are going, but that isn't really saying that much these days because so many people are abandoning Christianity that there isn't going to be much competition at all.

It's only going to win because we're giving up on religion, so I don't think it ever could seriously be called 'our' natural religion, and I just can't see many of those who have abandoned Christianity ever embracing Islam. No beer or bacon butties? No way! :'(
"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England." - Sir Winston Churchill
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Our true native religion is Druidism. Unfortunately we know sod all about it because the Druids, although they were capable of reading and writing, forbade any of their doctrines to be written down. The only information we have is from the Romans, who were hardly unbiased since they spent a great deal of effort battling Druid-inspired Celts.
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Quiet_Man
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Judge religions by what they do, when Christians, Buddhists, Jews et al start suicide bombing buildings, stoning women for adultery, hanging gays and justifying paedophilia because their founder did it. Then you might have a case against them. Otherwise feel free to ignore as they aren't hurting you or society.
Islam is different, it's more a political/military cult than a true religion, hence all the barbarism that goes with its territory and the fact that it follows it's rules to the letter as and when it can.
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”

George Orwell
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ignominius
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Whilst it's true that Charlemagne had 4,000 Saxon's heads lopped off for not converting please remember, Christianity doesn't demand that people convert to Christianity. What Charlemagne did was not based on Christian teaching nor was it the action of a Christian man.

However, Islam does call for the forcible conversion to it's belief system - the only religion that does so - and is the only religion that encourages the decapitation of those who refuse.
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Neverforget
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ENUFisENUF
Nov 5 2010, 02:10 PM
Then read a book about the History of Christianity, I'll dig through my bookshelves and see if I can find it. It's a damn good read.
Here's some of what wiki says about Constantine and his Council of Nicaea..
''The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Christian bishops convened in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day İznik in Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in A.D. 325. The Council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.

Its main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the relationship of Jesus to God the Father; the construction of the first part of the Nicene Creed; settling the calculation of the date of Easter; and promulgation of early canon law.
it resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Creed of Nicaea. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent general (ecumenical) councils of Bishops (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy— the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom.

The council did not create the doctrine of the deity of Christ (as is sometimes claimed) but it did settle to some degree the debate within the Early Christian communities regarding the divinity of Christ. This idea of the divinity of Christ along with the idea of Christ as a messenger from the one God ("The Father") had long existed in various parts of the Roman empire. The divinity of Christ had also been widely endorsed by the Christian community in the otherwise pagan city of Rome. The council affirmed and defined what it believed to be the teachings of the Apostles regarding who Christ is: that Christ is the one true God in deity with the Father.''



Cheers hope you find that book and thanks for info. Pretty fascinating that about constantine.
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repulse
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Enufisenuf, you might want to check out the consillie of jerusalem between petrus and barnabas, i think that is the real start of the christian church.
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made in England
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Neverforget
Nov 5 2010, 01:56 PM
made in England
Nov 5 2010, 01:21 PM
Ive debated this on many occasions, yes Christianity,Judaism and Islam all originated in the Middle East furthermore are all cut from the same cloth and most definitely not a Northern European Religion, it was Constantine that originally enforced Christianity onto Rome causing a bloody civil war from which they never really recovered from then expanded into the rest of Europe with catastrophic consequences, centuries later it was Charlemagne that reinforced Christendom and crushed the revolt of other German tribes in the vane attempt to reestablish their indigenous faith, the ancient Saxon chronicles tell us that Charlemagne ordered the savage beheading of over 4ooo saxon warriors for refusing to submit to Christianity.

Heres a concept to ponder over, if by our misfortune Islam was to remain in the UK for the next 2000 years would that also become our natural religion ?
In my opinion the speed Islam is gaining momentum in the UK and Europe along with the Muslim population expansion, the Islamic faith WILL prevail over all other.
Cheers thats really interesting. Is their any books you can suggest which talk about this more in detail?
Ive got quite a lot of old books that i doubt you would be able to get anymore including the Ancient Anglo-Saxon chronicles, the Saxon culture was more sophisticated and advanced than they would have us believe but no thanks to the Norman victory and conquest of England theyve been able to manipulate and almost eradicate all historical evidence of our Anglo-Saxon history.
After the Saxon and Viking rebellion in 1067 against the Norman overlords our Germanic and Norse culture slipped into an abyss, the historical context is somewhat grainy to say the least but the events of the aftermath that took place could not be covered up of the Norman death squads that systematically slaughtered most English males from the ages of 14 to 40 out of fear of another uprising.
No matter how you perceive it we have been a conquered race for over a thousand years but some would say its evolution of our nation however to settle this debate just look at how the very name English has become a swear word,some have been conditioned to accept to be of the English is admitting your a racist, England as a race and a homeland that is not recognized and frowned upon by our modern day overlords and masters.

Sorry im starting to rant now, please excuse me i put it down to patriotic passion ;)
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

Werian se Angelcynn
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Neverforget
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Nov 5 2010, 10:12 PM
Neverforget
Nov 5 2010, 01:56 PM
made in England
Nov 5 2010, 01:21 PM
Ive debated this on many occasions, yes Christianity,Judaism and Islam all originated in the Middle East furthermore are all cut from the same cloth and most definitely not a Northern European Religion, it was Constantine that originally enforced Christianity onto Rome causing a bloody civil war from which they never really recovered from then expanded into the rest of Europe with catastrophic consequences, centuries later it was Charlemagne that reinforced Christendom and crushed the revolt of other German tribes in the vane attempt to reestablish their indigenous faith, the ancient Saxon chronicles tell us that Charlemagne ordered the savage beheading of over 4ooo saxon warriors for refusing to submit to Christianity.

Heres a concept to ponder over, if by our misfortune Islam was to remain in the UK for the next 2000 years would that also become our natural religion ?
In my opinion the speed Islam is gaining momentum in the UK and Europe along with the Muslim population expansion, the Islamic faith WILL prevail over all other.
Cheers thats really interesting. Is their any books you can suggest which talk about this more in detail?
Ive got quite a lot of old books that i doubt you would be able to get anymore including the Ancient Anglo-Saxon chronicles, the Saxon culture was more sophisticated and advanced than they would have us believe but no thanks to the Norman victory and conquest of England theyve been able to manipulate and almost eradicate all historical evidence of our Anglo-Saxon history.
After the Saxon and Viking rebellion in 1067 against the Norman overlords our Germanic and Norse culture slipped into an abyss, the historical context is somewhat grainy to say the least but the events of the aftermath that took place could not be covered up of the Norman death squads that systematically slaughtered most English males from the ages of 14 to 40 out of fear of another uprising.
No matter how you perceive it we have been a conquered race for over a thousand years but some would say its evolution of our nation however to settle this debate just look at how the very name English has become a swear word,some have been conditioned to accept to be of the English is admitting your a racist, England as a race and a homeland that is not recognized and frowned upon by our modern day overlords and masters.

Sorry im starting to rant now, please excuse me i put it down to patriotic passion ;)
No worries I enjoyed your rant. :) cheers for book recommendations.
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KingsNewClothes
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ONe of the most interesting and really quite surprising aspects of the EDL forum - and it was not something I expected to find I must say - is the fierce opposition to ALL religions, its a kind of 'militant atheism'.

I support the National Secular Society and the British Humanist association in their work to stop religions in society getting undue privilege and actually, I would strongly suggest that those EDL supporters who are anti-religion start looking into both those organisations.

In my first post, I said that I see no reason for any human being to need religion. Even if you take the kind of ceremonies normally thought to be reserved for religion (weddings, namings and funerals), these today can all be done in an entirely non-religious way. I know, I have conducted many naming ceremonies for friends children.

None the less, I have a close friend who is a christian minister, I lived in lodgings with a Jewish family for 7 years, attending lots of Jewish events where I was totally treated as one of the family AND my best mate at university converted to Islam!

My own views can best be summed up in this brilliant article by the gay journalist and President of the National Secular Society, Terry Sanderson.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/terry-sanderson-and034im-a-confi.html

I neither know nor care whether god exists, because it matters not a jot to anyone.
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4MERLINS
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Seek and yea shall find, Knock and yea shall enter.. im a reborn again Christian, once was an atheist... listen Jesus is the ALPHA and the Omega The beginning and the end. Sometimes we are touched by God in a profound way a bit like me. Not everyone sees or chooses to see spiritual things though. Read bible prophecy, with out doubt we are living in the end times. God bless the EDL.
lISTEN MR Humanitarian, i would suggest you read the works of say Sir Issac Newton, a man whos mind far suppasses that of yours and ask yourself why he said their has to be a creator! NNewton was adamm fine scientist and logical thinker...one of our finest.
Edited by 4MERLINS, Nov 6 2010, 12:14 AM.
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For what it is worth this is my personal input...... I have never thought that I live in a Christian country...I was born into a very poor indigenous common family. I was taught from the first conscious moment, to answer when asked what faith I am, "old faith". I reply now as I was instructed to reply by my family, " all the sayings and the prayers and the gods and beings that they were said to, all these are long gone and the people who spoke the prayers are dead and their bones are dust. But we acknowledge the dates and by doing stay true to our ancestry, this is our faith"...To us it was explained that this was our common culture and we must never ever give it up........We were instructed that on entering the school system we would be taught a different way... The Christian faith...We were told to be like grass in the wind , to bend and say nothing, to carry our faith close to our hearts..... I have been astounded by the recent revelations that archeology as brought forth from around Durrington walls near Stonehenge. What I was taught seems to have been shown to be true.......The EDL is and will become the last and final expression of the indigenous common English, as it does so alot of strange truths will be revealed........Our ancestry is so very,very old......
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4MERLINS
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Your Right i dare say the EDL WILL be the last expression of the indigenous people and its emblem bears the CROSS. for we are Christendom not Mohammedom and thus defended the one true faith..
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caesar
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KingsNewClothes
Nov 5 2010, 11:33 PM
ONe of the most interesting and really quite surprising aspects of the EDL forum - and it was not something I expected to find I must say - is the fierce opposition to ALL religions, its a kind of 'militant atheism'.
One of the LEAST interesting thing I myself found on the EDL forum is the God exists/no he doesn't discussion.. This kind of discussions repeat themselves over and over again, seldom with original words.

By the way: you write "all religions", but of course islam isn't a religion in the first place. That's WHY I am so opposed to it.
Religion is the true philosophy
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made in England
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casualgreen
Nov 6 2010, 12:56 AM
For what it is worth this is my personal input...... I have never thought that I live in a Christian country...I was born into a very poor indigenous common family. I was taught from the first conscious moment, to answer when asked what faith I am, "old faith". I reply now as I was instructed to reply by my family, " all the sayings and the prayers and the gods and beings that they were said to, all these are long gone and the people who spoke the prayers are dead and their bones are dust. But we acknowledge the dates and by doing stay true to our ancestry, this is our faith"...To us it was explained that this was our common culture and we must never ever give it up........We were instructed that on entering the school system we would be taught a different way... The Christian faith...We were told to be like grass in the wind , to bend and say nothing, to carry our faith close to our hearts..... I have been astounded by the recent revelations that archeology as brought forth from around Durrington walls near Stonehenge. What I was taught seems to have been shown to be true.......The EDL is and will become the last and final expression of the indigenous common English, as it does so alot of strange truths will be revealed........Our ancestry is so very,very old......
Superb and quite emotional posting mate.
The introduction of Christianity into Britain in evolutionary terms is a minor insignificance as no one knows how old our true culture and civilization really is, just as no one knows how old and who built stone henge amongst many older unmentioned artifacts and settlements.
As a school boy i was taught that prior to the Roman conquest Britains were a race of unintelligent primitives but evidently and on the contrary this was not the case as we were even then the envy of the world with our import and export trade routes hence in which Rome wanted.
Regarding the Roman invasion, this is an a elaborate myth as the Romans were actually invited and welcomed by the 5th century king Vortigen in his bid to stem or stop other marauding tribes in which later on backfired when Rome did take full control that lead to the conquest of Britain.
What im saying is we only ever hear of a one sided history of those whom prevail over others, in the words of the victors, whether it be Roman, Norman or Christian history
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

Werian se Angelcynn
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ENUFisENUF
Nov 5 2010, 10:30 AM
The arguments between believers and atheists will always occur.
There is one sure fire way to settle the argument once and for all and that is for the god in question (of the 2500 odd gods worshipped over the milennia) to show him/her/itself in some irrefutable way.
That would shut us atheists up altogether, guaranteed.

But he/her/it never shows itself in such a way as there would be no doubt of its existence. Believers claim all sorts of things to show god in action but these very same things can always be shown to have a natural origin.

Surely a god capable of creation is also capable of speaking for itself and silencing us atheists once and for all.
even those who have eyes,ears and tongue couldnt see him/feel him/know him.we put him on a cross with nails in his feet,hands.made him wear a crown of thorns.pearced his side with a spear.all this after barbaricaly torturing him with every known weapon from the cat of nine tails to solid pieces of woood.made him carry his cross some distance away to a hill side,to die for us.

that was nearly the end of him,the story continues....... ;)

keep the faith

paxi :)
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Sussex 66
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I went off Christianity for a while but I've come back around to it recently. Not in a born again way, but I like the values and traditions. It's all part of our history and, and who knows what we would be like without it. We wouldn't have the same flag, for one thing, or EDL badge, for another.
"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England." - Sir Winston Churchill
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caesar
Nov 6 2010, 11:25 AM
KingsNewClothes
Nov 5 2010, 11:33 PM
ONe of the most interesting and really quite surprising aspects of the EDL forum - and it was not something I expected to find I must say - is the fierce opposition to ALL religions, its a kind of 'militant atheism'.
One of the LEAST interesting thing I myself found on the EDL forum is the God exists/no he doesn't discussion.. This kind of discussions repeat themselves over and over again, seldom with original words.

By the way: you write "all religions", but of course islam isn't a religion in the first place. That's WHY I am so opposed to it.
One of the LEAST interesting thing I myself found on the EDL forum is the God exists/no he doesn't discussion.. This kind of discussions repeat themselves over and over again, seldom with original words.


with the name of Ceaser,i suppose you have/will washed your hands with it?
now does that tell you anything about yourself?

keep the faith

paxi :)
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caesar
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paxi christi
Nov 6 2010, 01:23 PM
with the name of Ceaser,i suppose you have/will washed your hands with it?
now does that tell you anything about yourself?
Dear Paxi: in my eyes there is only one pax: the peace of Christ. Do you have heard of this commandment: don't use the name of the Lord to easily...
Religion is the true philosophy
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caesar
Nov 6 2010, 01:31 PM
paxi christi
Nov 6 2010, 01:23 PM
with the name of Ceaser,i suppose you have/will washed your hands with it?
now does that tell you anything about yourself?
Dear Paxi: in my eyes there is only one pax: the peace of Christ. Do you have heard of this commandment: don't use the name of the Lord to easily...
and in my heart i will not take the lords name in vein,but i will in provoked into it do what arc angel micheal did and saint george ok.hope you understand.
talk from the heart not the eyes then you can be clear about peoples intentions CEASER. ;)

keep the faith

paxi :)
caesar
Nov 6 2010, 01:31 PM
paxi christi
Nov 6 2010, 01:23 PM
with the name of Ceaser,i suppose you have/will washed your hands with it?<br />now does that tell you anything about yourself?
Dear Paxi: in my eyes there is only one pax: the peace of Christ. Do you have heard of this commandment: don't use the name of the Lord to easily...
and in my heart i will not take the lords name in vein,but i will if provoked into it,do what arc angel micheal did and saint george ok.hope you understand.
talk from the heart not the eyes then you can be clear about peoples intentions CEASER. ;)

keep the faith

paxi :)
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caesar
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paxi christi
Nov 6 2010, 01:35 PM
talk from the heart not the eyes then you can be clear about peoples intentions CEASER. ;)

Talk from the heart? TALK from the heart can cause you to speak libel and hate. My name is caesar by the way, not c e a s e r: thou shall not judge people, another wonderful commandment. What's you fcuking problem with my name, friend?

Pax (without the 'i'),

caesar
Religion is the true philosophy
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