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Why ARE so many modern British career women converting to Islam?; Another Daily Mail article.
Topic Started: Oct 27 2010, 08:40 AM (478 Views)
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Why ARE so many modern British career women converting to Islam?
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER

Tony Blair’s sister-in-law announced her conversion to Islam last weekend. Journalist Lauren Booth embraced the faith after what she describes as a ‘holy experience’ in Iran.
She is just one of a growing number of modern British career women to do so. Here, writer EVE AHMED, who was raised as a Muslim before rejecting the faith, explores the reasons why.

Rejecting her faith: Writer Eve Ahmed was raised a Muslim
Much of my childhood was spent trying to escape Islam.
Born in London to an English mother and a Pakistani Muslim father, I was brought up to follow my father’s faith without question.
But, privately, I hated it. The minute I left home for university at the age of 18, I abandoned it altogether.
As far as I was concerned, being a Muslim meant hearing the word ‘No’ over and over again.
Girls from my background were barred from so many of the things my English friends took for granted. Indeed, it seemed to me that almost anything fun was haram, or forbidden, to girls like me.
There were so many random, petty rules. No whistling. No chewing of gum. No riding bikes. No watching Top Of The Pops. No wearing make-up or clothes which revealed the shape of the body.
No eating in the street or putting my hands in my pockets. No cutting my hair or painting my nails. No asking questions or answering back. No keeping dogs as pets, (they were unclean).
And, of course, no sitting next to men, shaking their hands or even making eye contact with them.
These ground rules were imposed by my father and I, therefore, assumed they must be an integral part of being a good Muslim.
Small wonder, then, that as soon as I was old enough to exert my independence, I rejected the whole package and turned my back on Islam. After all, what modern, liberated British woman would choose to live such a life?
Well, quite a lot, it turns out, including Islam’s latest surprise convert, Tony Blair’s sister-in-law Lauren Booth. And after my own break with my past, I’ve followed with fascination the growing trend of Western women choosing to convert to Islam.
Broadcaster and journalist Booth, 43, says she now wears a hijab head covering whenever she leaves home, prays five times a day and visits her local mosque ‘when I can’.
She decided to become a Muslim six weeks ago after visiting the shrine of Fatima al-Masumeh in the city of Qom, and says: ‘It was a Tuesday evening, and I sat down and felt this shot of spiritual morphine, just absolute bliss and joy.’
Before her awakening in Iran, she had been ‘sympathetic’ to Islam and has spent considerable time working in Palestine. ‘I was always impressed with the strength and comfort it gave,’ she says.
How, I wondered, could women be drawn to a religion which I felt had kept me in such a lowly, submissive place? How could their experiences of Islam be so very different to mine?


Changing values: Camilla Leyland, 32, pictured in Western and Muslim dress, converted to Islam in her mid-20s for 'intellectual and feminist reasons'
According to Kevin Brice from Swansea University, who has specialised in studying white conversion to Islam, these women are part of an intriguing trend.
He explains: ‘They seek spirituality, a higher meaning, and tend to be deep thinkers. The other type of women who turn to Islam are what I call “converts of convenience”. They’ll assume the trappings of the religion to please their Muslim husband and his family, but won’t necessarily attend mosque, pray or fast.’
I spoke to a diverse selection of white Western converts in a bid to re-examine the faith I had rejected.
Women like Kristiane Backer, 43, a London-based former MTV presenter who had led the kind of liberal Western-style life that I yearned for as a teenager, yet who turned her back on it and embraced Islam instead. Her reason? The ‘anything goes’ permissive society that I coveted had proved to be a superficial void.
'In the West, we are stressed for super ficial reasons, like what clothes to wear. In Islam, everyone looks to a higher goal. Everything is done to please God'
The turning point for Kristiane came when she met and briefly dated the former Pakistani cricketer and Muslim Imran Khan in 1992 during the height of her career. He took her to Pakistan where she says she was immediately touched by spirtuality and the warmth of the people.
Kristiane says: ‘Though our relationship didn’t last, I began to study the Muslim faith and eventually converted. Because of the nature of my job, I’d been out interviewing rock stars, travelling all over the world and following every trend, yet I’d felt empty inside. Now, at last, I had contentment because Islam had given me a purpose in life.’
‘In the West, we are stressed for super ficial reasons, like what clothes to wear. In Islam, everyone looks to a higher goal. Everything is done to please God. It was a completely different value system.
'Despite my lifestyle, I felt empty inside and realised how liberating it was to be a Muslim. To follow only one god makes life purer. You are not chasing every fad.
‘I grew up in Germany in a not very religious Protestant family. I drank and I partied, but I realised that we need to behave well now so we have a good after-life. We are responsible for our own actions.’
For a significant amount of women, their first contact with Islam comes from dating a Muslim boyfriend. Lynne Ali, 31, from Dagenham in Essex, freely admits to having been ‘a typical white hard-partying teenager’.

Liberating: Kristiane Backer says being a Muslim makes her life purer
She says: ‘I would go out and get drunk with friends, wear tight and revealing clothing and date boys.
‘I also worked part-time as a DJ, so I was really into the club scene. I used to pray a bit as a Christian, but I used God as a sort of doctor, to fix things in my life. If anyone asked, I would’ve said that, generally, I was happy living life in the fast lane.’
But when she met her boyfriend, Zahid, at university, something dramatic happened.
She says: ‘His sister started talking to me about Islam, and it was as if everything in my life fitted into place. I think, underneath it all, I must have been searching for something, and I wasn’t feeling fulfilled by my hard-drinking party lifestyle.’
Lynne converted aged 19. ‘From that day, I started wearing the hijab,’ she explains, ‘and I now never show my hair in public. At home, I’ll dress in normal Western clothes in front of my husband, but never out of the house.’
With a recent YouGov survey concluding that more than half the British public believe Islam to be a negative influence that encourages extremism, the repression of women and inequality, one might ask why any of them would choose such a direction for themselves.
Yet statistics suggest Islamic conversion is not a mere flash in the pan but a significant development. Islam is, after all, the world’s fastest growing religion, and white adopters are an important part of that story.
‘Evidence suggests that the ratio of Western women converts to male could be as high as 2:1,’ says Kevin Brice.
Moreover, he says, often these female converts are eager to display the visible signs of their faith — in particular the hijab — whereas many Muslim girls brought up in the faith choose not to.
‘Perhaps as a result of these actions, which tend to draw attention, white Muslims often report greater amounts of discrimination against them than do born Muslims,’ adds Brice, which is what happened to Kristiane Backer.
She says: ‘In Germany, there is Islamophobia. I lost my job when I converted. There was a Press campaign against me with insinuations about all Muslims supporting terrorists — I was vilified. Now, I am a presenter on NBC Europe.

Ex-MTV Presenter Kristiane Backer with Mick Jagger in the late Eighties
‘I call myself a European Muslim, which is different to the ‘born’ Muslim. I was married to one, a Moroccan, but it didn’t work because he placed restrictions on me because of how he’d been brought up. As a European Muslim, I question everything — I don’t accept blindly.
‘But what I love is the hospitality and the warmth of the Muslim community. London is the best place in Europe for Muslims, there is wonderful Islamic culture here and I am very happy.’
For some converts, Islam represents a celebration of old-fashioned family values.
‘Some are drawn to the sense of belonging and of community — values which have eroded in the West,’ says Haifaa Jawad, a senior lecturer at the University of Birmingham, who has studied the white conversion phenomenon.
‘Many people, from all walks of life, mourn the loss in today’s society of traditional respect for the elderly and for women, for example. These are values which are enshrined in the Koran, which Muslims have to live by,’ adds Brice.

Escape route: Former DJ Lynne Ali is happy to pray five times a day
It is values like these which drew Camilla Leyland, 32, a yoga teacher who lives in Cornwall, to Islam. A single mother to daughter, Inaya, two, she converted in her mid-20s for ‘intellectual and feminist reasons’.
She explains: ‘I know people will be surprised to hear the words “feminism” and “Islam” in the same breath, but in fact, the teachings of the Koran give equality to women, and at the time the religion was born, the teachings went against the grain of a misogynistic society.
‘The big mistake people make is by confusing culture with religion. Yes, there are Muslim cultures which do not allow women individual freedom, yet when I was growing up, I felt more oppressed by Western society.’
She talks of the pressure on women to act like men by drinking and having casual sex. ‘There was no real meaning to it all. In Islam, if you begin a relationship, that is a commitment of intent.’
Growing up in Southampton — her father was the director of Southampton Institute of Education and her mother a home economics teacher — Camilla’s interest in Islam began at school.
She went to university and later took a Masters degree in Middle East Studies. But it was while living and working in Syria that she had a spiritual epiphany. Reflecting on what she’d read in the Koran, she realised she wanted to convert.
Her decision was met with bemusement by friends and family.
‘People found it so hard to believe that an educated, middle-class white woman would choose to become Muslim,’ she says.
While Camilla’s faith remains strong, she no longer wears the hijab in public. But several of the women I spoke to said strict Islamic dress was something they found empowering and liberating.
Lynne Ali remembers the night this hit home for her. ‘I went to an old friend’s 21st birthday party in a bar,’ she reveals. ‘I walked in, wearing my hijab and modest clothing, and saw how everyone else had so much flesh on display. They were drunk, slurring their words and dancing provocatively.
‘For the first time, I could see my former life with an outsider’s eyes, and I knew I could never go back to that.
‘I am so grateful I found my escape route. This is the real me — I am happy to pray five times a day and take classes at the mosque. I am no longer a slave to a broken society and its expectations.’
Kristiane Backer, who has written a book on her own spiritual journey, called From MTV To Mecca, believes the new breed of modern, independent Muslims can band together to show the world that Islam is not the faith I grew up in — one that stamps on the rights of women.
She says: ‘I know women born Muslims who became disillusioned an d rebelled against it. When you dig deeper, it’s not the faith they turned against, but the culture.
'Rules like marrying within the same sect or caste and education being less important for girls, as they should get married anyway —– where does it say that in the Koran? It doesn’t.
‘Many young Muslims have abandoned the “fire and brimstone” version they were born into have re-discovered a more spiritual and intellectual approach, that’s free from the cultural dogmas of the older generation. That’s how I intend to spend my life, showing the world the beauty of the true Islam.’
While I don’t agree with their sentiments, I admire and respect the women I interviewed for this piece.
They were all bright and educated, and have thought long and hard before choosing to convert to Islam — and now feel passionately about their adopted religion. Good luck to them. And good luck to Lauren Booth. But it’s that word that sums up the difference between their experience and mine — choice.
Perhaps if I’d felt in control rather than controlled, if I’d felt empowered rather than stifled, I would still be practising the religion I was born into, and would not carry the burden of guilt that I do about rejecting my father’s faith.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1324039/Like-Lauren-Booth-ARE-modern-British-career-women-converting-Islam.html#ixzz13Xi0jADv
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slodger
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I am no authority on feminism but I cannot understand why a woman would give up all the achievements of the women's movement to live as a muslim. I think the key is Lauren Booth saying she felt Islam was like a "shot of spiritual morphine" . Morphine is a pain killer. These converts must somehow be in pain.

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And morphine is soporific, I think she nodded off. :D

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Orwell
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At least in the West they have the freedom to believe whatever dark age superstitious nonsense they choose.

The real tragedy is for the millions of Muslim women who live totally without choice.

Fools.
Political Correctness is a gift from Allah
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Attention seeking drama queens who have passed their best before date.
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Ah, truth be known: They've read EDL commenters call the islamics 'special ones' and they're stupid enough to brlieve it's true, they just want attention. It's a fad, the latest thing, to replace little doggies in big handbags, adopting African children or having a lesbian friend!

It'll blow over when they see the true face of islam.
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A definite fad. See how much they would like being a faux muslim living with some domineering husband in a 2 up 2 down in Bradford and being a baby producing, house bound non entity, or married off to some toothless rotting old peasant from a small disease ridden village in Pakistan. Even the ex MTV woman felt stifled by her Morroccan husband.

Easy to like certain bits, but none of them live the full dream do they?
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I see this as a new fad or trend... However unlike a dog in a had bag getting rid of Islam will not be easy.

I really wonder if they know what they are letting them selves in for.
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ADW
Oct 27 2010, 10:20 AM
I see this as a new fad or trend... However unlike a dog in a had bag getting rid of Islam will not be easy.

I really wonder if they know what they are letting them selves in for.
what he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Idjut Bungmewonga
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slodger
Oct 27 2010, 09:05 AM
I am no authority on feminism but I cannot understand why a woman would give up all the achievements of the women's movement to live as a muslim. I think the key is Lauren Booth saying she felt Islam was like a "shot of spiritual morphine" . Morphine is a pain killer. These converts must somehow be in pain.
There are certain similarities between the authoritarian brands of feminism and islam; ie; the urge to censor "provocative" literature and making women cover up so men can't treat them as "sex objects" (their doublespeak for admiring the female form - though they conveniently ignore the fact that lesbians also admire women in their birthday suits ).
Winston Churchill on Islam ; ' The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world....
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ENUFisENUF
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These women falsely believe that a western version of a moderate Islam is possible. It might be possible for a while, but all theocracies eventually end up fanatical and fundamental.
It's a case of starting a theocracy in a moderate sense and then, as some people begin to say ''Well, I'm more muslim than you because I do x, y and z'' other people will then respond with ''Well, I do x, y, z and a,b, and c so I'm more muslim than you.''
The end result, and the inevitable result, is that everyone will start having to behave as muslim as they can and that means living the qur'an by the letter.
As we all know, living the qur'an by the letter is what happens in Somalia.
These western converts are having their cake and eating it too. They have no concern for future generations who will be forced to live a completely different Islam than these utopian ideals they strive for.
Blind fools, the lot of them. Blind, selfish fools.

If western culture is so depraved we must do something about it, not abandon it and embrace an even more depraved culture.
“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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its just an excuse to cover a pig ugly face
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The Walking Dude
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Like other poster have alluded to, they are attention seeking, middle class rootless metropolitan types, its all about me me,.

It must be pretty revolting for them being around all those pakistani men who have the maturity of a horny 14 year old.

Let them convert, useless hasbeens.

Whats immensely irritating is the mention of London being such a good city for muslims, hopefully we can change that for them within the next 5 years.

WD
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Why do these women convert to Islam? Because they see Islam as the perfect religion. They perceive it as something that will bring them peace.

These women are Muslim now so that means they would not be against the Islamification of Britain. So in their own little way, they are helping Britain go backwards in time, and that includes women's rights.

These women are fools, they believe the lies that are fed to them by Imams and Liberals who tell them that Islam is a "religion of peace".

But maybe they, and other converts to Islam, will realise what they are doing, and that Islam wasn't as sweet as they thought.
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The Swine
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Quote:
 
Broadcaster and journalist Booth, 43, says she now wears a hijab head covering whenever she leaves home, prays five times a day and visits her local mosque ‘when I can’.


And all that after reading 60 pages of the Koran.By the time she has finished it she will be demanding she is stoned to death for her past adultery.

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lan-astaslem
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I reckon Aufseherin Booth would feel more enlightened if she lost all those extra kilos
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

Posted Image
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scotsguy
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its all about male domination! these skanks feel the need to be dominated and treated as second class citizens!...islamic culture surely fufils that mindset!...sub slaves!
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raaina
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We-Are-The-British
Oct 27 2010, 12:08 PM
Why do these women convert to Islam? Because they see Islam as the perfect religion. They perceive it as something that will bring them peace.

These women are Muslim now so that means they would not be against the Islamification of Britain. So in their own little way, they are helping Britain go backwards in time, and that includes women's rights.

Do we really have equal rights for women in this country?

I think not.
They’re sailing for England
Oh! What a shame!
Someone is after our island again
We’ll let them have it…
Oh, yes we will!
But maybe they won’t want it when they get the bill!

But, who’s sticking in here? Who will defend
every inch of England no matter what they send?
Who’s standing firm in our own front yard?
The soldiers of the old home guard
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1Pat
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"As far as I was concerned, being a Muslim meant hearing the word ‘No’ over and over again.
Girls from my background were barred from so many of the things my English friends took for granted. Indeed, it seemed to me that almost anything fun was haram, or forbidden, to girls like me.
There were so many random, petty rules. No whistling. No chewing of gum. No riding bikes. No watching Top Of The Pops. No wearing make-up or clothes which revealed the shape of the body.
No eating in the street or putting my hands in my pockets. No cutting my hair or painting my nails. No asking questions or answering back. No keeping dogs as pets, (they were unclean).
And, of course, no sitting next to men, shaking their hands or even making eye contact with them.
These ground rules were imposed by my father and I, therefore, assumed they must be an integral part of being a good Muslim."

How quickly freedom fades.



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ENUFisENUF
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No, we don't have fully equal rights in this country yet, and we should hang our heads in shame for that.
BUT, we are leaps and bounds ahead of the rights of women under Islam.

The west still has some way to go before women are truly equal in their rights, but submitting to male dominance under Islam is not the way forward. It is a huge backward step. And one that will take centuries to reverse.
“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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raaina
Oct 27 2010, 01:58 PM
We-Are-The-British
Oct 27 2010, 12:08 PM
Why do these women convert to Islam? Because they see Islam as the perfect religion. They perceive it as something that will bring them peace.

These women are Muslim now so that means they would not be against the Islamification of Britain. So in their own little way, they are helping Britain go backwards in time, and that includes women's rights.

Do we really have equal rights for women in this country?

I think not.
Are you going to explain what you're talking about?

As far as I can see, there is equal rights for women, but if Islam continues to rise and spread, the rights of women will be reduced to what Islam would want. That was my point.
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1882
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Eve Ahmed ...MMMMmmm! hubba hubba !!
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U.B.A.
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...todays muslim converts are yesterdays Buddhist ones.

yawn.............stupid women.
"...NOR SHALL MY SWORD SLEEP IN MY HAND."

E.D.L......THE THIN RED LINE
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littlejohn
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20 years ago these women would have gone on about how great Russia was. ] while living here of course]
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MissM
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5 years ago, one of my closest girlfriends who was of Spanish background had converted to Islam after marrying... after she converted she chose not to associate with 'non islamic' friends....her husband certainly laid down strict rules for her too...at first she would call me & 'politely' suggest i look at Islamic religion, i was horrified and offended!
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It's a similar kick to what those women get who befriend serial killers in jail,

it's a validation that they are special; above being murdered by a psychopath.

A uniquely evil man has recognised that they are lovable and apart from other

run of the mill victims.

None of these woman have gone for the full islamic experience, they have chosen, islam light.

The version saved especially for unique women, the one where they live their western lives as before but

with a crown of thorns on their head, namely the hijab, so we mere mortals can recognise their

specialness, and are in awe of them...so they believe.
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roger_bates
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Lets just hope they don't change their minds and want to convert back. I assume they've read the rules on apostates.....
Visit my website - How to be Politically Correct www.makemepc.com
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learning curve
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the biggest problem that exist's with many area's of islam and within this article is that no-body is prepared to actually sit down, think things though and reasearch the full facts before commiting themselves to such a treaherous way of life and thinking, no matter how "peacefull" the glossy cover's are.

were's their brain's at,.. up the perverbial pipe me thinks.
its not just the women either ffs...!
Edited by learning curve, Oct 27 2010, 11:29 PM.
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Wigone
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These women who convert were the ones who at school were subservient to everyone so as to feel accepted. Well darlings Islam will certainly allow you to be subservient and you can excell at that.
They don't like it up 'em.
Don't tell them your name Pike.
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roger_bates
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For all of them it seems to be just a rebellious thing. None of them talk about the actual religion. None say they read about a guy who had 11 wives, had sex with a 9 year old, was a warlord who killed hundreds and assumed he must be a prophet of God.

For every 1 white convert there are 10 muslim girls going the other way and out partying and s*agging about but these never get reported
Edited by roger_bates, Oct 27 2010, 11:44 PM.
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roger_bates
Oct 27 2010, 11:26 PM
Lets just hope they don't change their minds and want to convert back. I assume they've read the rules on apostates.....
I guess they didn't know what the Quran's stance on apostasy is:

"Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

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slodger
Oct 27 2010, 09:05 AM
I am no authority on feminism but I cannot understand why a woman would give up all the achievements of the women's movement to live as a muslim. I think the key is Lauren Booth saying she felt Islam was like a "shot of spiritual morphine" . Morphine is a pain killer. These converts must somehow be in pain.
I think she might still be suffering from her shit childhood. She hasn't exactly had the best upbringing. It's a bit drastic converting to Islam though, if I was her I would have tried Prozac for a few months first.

Lauren Booth's childhood.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-540153/Lauren-Booth-reveals-HATES-mother-wants-again.html
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U.B.A.
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Great post Ruby...."islam lite"....ha ha like it!!!
"...NOR SHALL MY SWORD SLEEP IN MY HAND."

E.D.L......THE THIN RED LINE
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moongodout
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Perhaps these women "converts" should see the movie NOT WITHOUT MY DAUGHTER. I'm sure they won't appreciate how Sally Field's character was treated by her Muslim husband.
The PROTESTANT CRUSADERS fully support the English Defence League in their battle against evil.

Abraham Lincoln said: "Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves."
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I think some wimen just like it rough. They watch stuff like this and think, "Yeh' Islam's deffo' for me!"...
http://vodpod.com/watch/3004394-liveleak-com-women-beaten-for-not-wearing-burqa
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mostonian
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Christine Patriot
Oct 27 2010, 09:40 AM
Ah, truth be known: They've read EDL commenters call the islamics 'special ones' and they're stupid enough to brlieve it's true, they just want attention. It's a fad, the latest thing, to replace little doggies in big handbags, adopting African children or having a lesbian friend!

It'll blow over when they see the true face of islam.
Correct!!
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8thCrusade
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On the whole I can agree with some of the points that are raised in the article, such as women feeling content and happy without the need to drink heavily, sleep with multiple partners and the general modern Western ways of life. They feel happy and content to devote themselves to God. Sadly this is a problem in Westerrn society, that we must face and the result is very visible today, just look around, the low birth rate of indigienous British people means we will soon be out numbered (Mohammed is now the most popular name in the UK for a new born boy, scary) and the breakdown of the traditional family unit. Although it is not my role to judge people who choose how to live there free lives, but I do like to comment on it. People use the term freedom loosely. We have freedom because teenage boys take up arms and fight, bleed, sweat and die for us on foreign soil. And those are the lucky ones, at least they die with some dignity, for every dead hero another 3-4 are seriously injured, i.e. multiple amputees. And I am ashamed at what those lads come home to. A nation of disrespectful chavs, who get beered up and fight eachother over fat birds every weekend while Islam runs amock and we now have Islam no go areas. My point here is that yes we are a free nation, but at a very heavy cost. Therefore we owe it to our men fighting in foreign lands, we owe it to ourselves, our family our friends to make the most of our freedom. What I mean by this is we should strive to be the best in what we do whatever we do. As a nation we are becoming a nation of mongs who religously follow X-factor, reality TV and the likes of Wayne Rooney, and our little sleeper cells are totally taking advantage of this, for most people in this country are more concerned about where the Rooneys are vacationing next than they are about the 54 souls who died at the hand of Islamic terrorirsts on 7/7.
We all need to become more aware and more tactical in our thinking and actions, that means getting invloved in your local politics, join the TA if you have spare time, get promoted at work, earn more money, we need to raise our bar, so we can influence and change policy with power and influence.
And finally the most important part of that article which almost brings my blood to the boil, is that any of these women could turn to any religion to follow god, they could be Christian, Hindu, Jewish, no but they join Islam as they know its the golden ticket to get promoted and they know they will never get fired as positive discrimination is on their side, plus they get off work to pray 5 times a day plus all the extra holidays...hello 'career women' its in the name. Also has anyone noticed how many government employees, i.e. policemen, firemen etc are converting...its great for your career plus you get lots of extra time off.

Sorry for the rant lads, but we need to get much smarter to take on this enemey.

Strength and honour
"Goodbye my love." He doesn't say it. There's no room for softness... not in Sparta. No place for weakness. Only the hard and strong may call themselves Spartans. Only the hard, only the strong.
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Feliz Navidad (Gold) created by Sarah & Delirium of the ZNR