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The Times on EDL: 24th Oct - 25th Oct
Topic Started: Oct 26 2010, 07:51 AM (454 Views)
General Pershing
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I know this is a pay to view paper, so I've taken the liberty of showing you all for free.

Here's five articles by The Times and what they've had to say about the EDL over the last couple of days:

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Look at all that publicity ;)
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Battle of Lepanto
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Kafir
Don't wish to appear ungrateful, but where's the next page of the first interview? I was enjoying it!

It was a good idea to do the interview. Makes it more mainstream.
Or was that it for the interview? Bit brief but good publicity. Hopefully it will encourage others to come forward.
The 3rd paragraph from the end of the Cruddas comment piece is a pretty accurate reflection of things.
Respect to Stephen Lennon for putting himself on the front line.
I love the commitment "to ensure Christian values are upheld" and the threat to "turn the heat on" if there are multi-culti attempts to re-name Christmas anywhere.

Some of the aggressive atheists here won't like it - but good on him!
Nice one General Jack!
Edited by Battle of Lepanto, Oct 26 2010, 08:16 AM.
ANTI-JIHADIST FREE-THINKER
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General Pershing
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TV175
Oct 26 2010, 08:01 AM
Don't wish to appear ungrateful, but where's the next page of the first interview? I was enjoying it!

It was a good idea to do the interview. Makes it more mainstream.
Or was that it for the interview? Bit brief but good publicity. Hopefully it will encourage others to come forward.
The 3rd paragraph from the end of the Cruddas comment piece is a pretty accurate reflection of things.
Respect to Stephen Lennon for putting himself on the front line.
I love the threat "to ensure Christian values are upheld" and to "turn the heat on" if there are multi-culti attempts to re-name Christmas anywhere.

Some of the aggressive atheists here won't like it - but good on him!
Whoops, forgot to screenshot those..... I've added them in for you now :)

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Edited by General Pershing, Oct 26 2010, 08:16 AM.
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Battle of Lepanto
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Thanks Jack - great ending to the interview.

Dunno about others, but that was a well-needed shot in the arm (not the brown, tho').
Edited by Battle of Lepanto, Oct 26 2010, 08:24 AM.
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Wow, that's some coverage, well done Tommy.

Thanks for putting it up, General, it's an interesting read. ;)

In general what were the comments like, anyone?
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donsilbers
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Yep, good one Tommy and the Rabbi's a genuine bloke as well.
info activism tactics

http://www.informationactivism.org/en/viewonline

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General Pershing
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Should I copy and paste the comments?
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Yes, that would be good. ;)
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ENUFisENUF
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Kafir
Good stuff...the fact we got so much coverage in The Times means we are being heard at last.
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“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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General Pershing
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OK, here goes then. All comments from each of the five articles in the same order they appear above.

1st Article:
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Comments (63)

Alan Hawkes

October 24, 2010 11:02 PM

Alan Hawkes.

There is a sizeable section of the indigenous population that feels that it has been ignored by a metropolitan elite. Neither group understands the other. In some ways this movement resembles the Luddite reaction to early industrialisation when workers saw their jobs being destroyed by a process that left them feeling impotent. It is significant that the report selects as its example local authorities that might want to change the name of Christmas to something thought to be more muliticultural. This is strange as I have never seen a report of any other religious group seeking this change, so such an action would be the misguided efforts of the local authority. As so often it is a small thing, true or exaggerated that is often the last straw. Job losses will only add to the anger.
(60)

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Christian Neukirch

October 25, 2010 1:45 AM

Christian Neukirch.

Seems like more groups like this could come up across Europe. The leaders of the Europe fail to understand that you can't force society to be liberal - the society itself has to become it first and then rules can be made. Groups like this can turn out to be pretty nasty soon and may cause some considerable damage to the reputation of nations.
(26)

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Patrick Rynne

October 25, 2010 1:48 AM

Patrick Rynne.

I don't support extremist groups, but multiculturalism has failed. Some form of assimilation is necessary.





Global Voter

October 25, 2010 2:13 AM

Global Voter.

This is entirely understandable, when governments allow uncontrolled political correctness to surge, then extremist groups will look after those left behind. Governments need to control immigration and respect a country's historic values. Immigrants, like me, need to respect that when in Rome....
(90)




Nicholas Reuss

October 25, 2010 2:23 AM

Nicholas Reuss.

We should welcome all comers to work, marry, raise families and prosper in the free and liberal society that is Britain which has its own distinct culture, long history and resulting values. Immigrants must accept our way of life and not expect us to change to meet their legion of different cultures. If they don't like that then they should accept our right to be British and go back to where they came from.
(135)

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chas dutton

October 25, 2010 3:22 AM

chas dutton.

The EDL and the likes of BNP, NF etc will never reach a critical mass because:

Violence and Thuggery on the streets of UK sabotages their message.
Their message and methods are bigoted.
Plod, Court Orders and The Media will neutralize them.
(7)




Peter Maclean

October 25, 2010 4:52 AM

Peter Maclean.

The Pen is only mightier than the sword if those using it have INK. Think about it
(3)


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Richard Martin

October 25, 2010 4:57 AM

Richard Martin.

Communist Islamist Capitalist World
Social Democracy Class British
Liberal Left Conservative Right
Christian Left Witness Right
(0)


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Sebastian Collier

October 25, 2010 5:29 AM

Sebastian Collier.

um...I thought Christmas was celebrated on a Roman calender involving the birth of the King of the Jews with a cultural contribution of Frankincense, Myrrh and gold from the Oriental kings with the star of Bethlehem set in the Middle East mixed with a combination of Nordic folk stories with ornate Hindu temple decorations while eating a bird ( Turkey) that originated from the American continent. I think one would have to accept that Christmas was very multicultural.
(26)

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Hugo Slade

October 25, 2010 6:53 AM

Hugo Slade.

Dangerous..... very dangerous. With the benefit of hindsight we can see what the possible repercussions are of movements that start like this.
(7)


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Robert Rosenberg

October 25, 2010 6:54 AM

Robert Rosenberg.

The rabbi doesn't represent Jews here. He is regarded as a nutter.
We need to neutralise groups like this by not being stupid. Christmas is Christmas and should be celebrated properly. Minorities just want to be able to celebrate their own festivals in peace, not change the way Christians celebrate their festivals! These local government idiots just don't get this simple concept.
(31)

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Richard James

October 25, 2010 7:07 AM

Richard James.

"To each action there is an equal and opposite reaction". One of the basic laws of physics that can easily said to apply to this situation. President Merkl has pronounced that multi-culturism has been a failed experiment in Germany and its about time we were honest enough to admit it too.
(53)


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Current Bun

October 25, 2010 7:09 AM

Current Bun.

Sebastian Collier - actually Christmas is the Saturnalia - a northern European pagan festival which predates the Christian overlay. The cultural history of the Saturnalia is deeply fascinating. It acknowledges the Winter Solstice among other things and the return of sunlight in the northern hemisphere as days get longer after the 21st Dec - whatever date you want to give it, the Solstice is at the same time. The birth of Christ is a latecomer to the party.
I prefer the old tradition - I do not like the dubious cultural input which has seen Christmas become a credit binge. So for me multiculturalism does not work especially when one of the most insidious contributions is usury.
(9)


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Shrikant Deshpande

October 25, 2010 7:25 AM

Shrikant Deshpande.

New name for Christmas !!! Honestly! I dont understand how some people can be so right-sided such as the BNP or the EDL, but with steps such as this - as well as all the other steps councils and the government take to be PC - I can understand why such extremists get an audience.

I have lived in the UK for the past 4 odd years, and it is the most or one of the most inclusive societies. But pressuring people into accepting more than they are ready to accept is only a recipe for trouble.

Hopefully this government will have its antennae set right and make people coming into the country accept that they have to align to the UK, rather than expect everyone else to change. Its not the basic values that have to change, but immigrants have to understand that if they expect their new home-countries to be inclusive, they themselves will have to change and be inclusive to the thoughts and beliefs of the new country.
(32)

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Mike

October 25, 2010 7:52 AM

Mike.

Multi-ethnic - YES. Multi-cultural - NO !

A common culture is the cement that holds any society together. Cultures, like languages, evolve all of the time as new influences permeate them and that's how it should be - a ground swell shift from below rather than an imposed artificially edict from above.

There are many immigrants of all colours and creeds who have integrated into our society and have subtly influenced our outlook and habits. This can clearly be seen in the food that we eat, the clothes that we wear and our artistic output and this is the way that it has always been in the past.

Immigrants who congregate into Ghettos, make little effort to speak our language and who clearly reject our indigenous culture should not be accomodated here and should return to their countries of origin. They constitute the most devise element in any society and it is not an example of liberal toleration but more of a harbinger of social and cultural disintegration.
(81)

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David MacKinnon

October 25, 2010 8:18 AM

David MacKinnon.

Promoting everything from people dancing around poles to Poles dancing around people tends to, I dunno, POLARIZE things...
(3)


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martin leslie

October 25, 2010 8:37 AM

martin leslie.

The three MP's in the news don't help.
(4)




alan ronan

October 25, 2010 8:39 AM

alan ronan.

europe faces a very real danger from a group that is anti democracy and predujice against anyone who is not like them, they are racist , homophobic, sexist , and self serving. im talking about islam.
(21)

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Maria A

October 25, 2010 8:50 AM

Maria A.

It doesn't surprise me that there are 40000 extremists on facebook
(3)


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Xavier Onassis

October 25, 2010 9:08 AM

Xavier Onassis.

Unfortunately this group seem to be articulating in an extremist way the reasoned thoughts of many who feel ignored or overlooked by our current crop of "politically correct" politicians of all parties.
(10)


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Lady Truly Barking Madstock

October 25, 2010 9:09 AM

Lady Truly Barking Madstock.

THey are no better than the extremists they protest about. They are just thugs who are out for a fight, if it wasn't extremists it would be blacks, homosexuals or any other target.

Doing it for the British people?

Not in my name!
(7)


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Lizard

October 25, 2010 9:10 AM

Lizard.

Am I the only one who finds it funny that Stephen Lennon appears to be wearing something resembling a burka?
(12)




Andrew Ross

October 25, 2010 9:25 AM

Andrew Ross.

The EDL needs to avoid the trap of nationalism. Global organization is good. Globorg is GO, GO dominion is GOD, and GOD is great!
(1)


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Peter Burgess

October 25, 2010 9:31 AM

Peter Burgess.

"God bless our Queen, England and St. George" Discuss with refeerence to England's history of adapting to multiculturalism. Please will some of you go back to the Daily Mail.
(4)




Alison Figueiredo

October 25, 2010 9:34 AM

Alison Figueiredo.

"His group is also receiving funding from those organisations to help it to achieve its aim of countering what it perceives as the “Islamisation of Britain”."

With regard to Tower Hamlets is there any need for The Times to include these parentheses? The press never bothers to question or investigate other extremist organisations. Why it cannot join the dots here regards the emergence of this apparently "far right" organisation is curious. Is Ken Livingstone now far right given he supports similar organisations in the opposite corner staking their claim on a London council whose supporters were intimidating women going to vote? Just curious how the Times wants to set about pigeon holing this whole debate.
(11)


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Guy Higby

October 25, 2010 9:41 AM

Guy Higby.

This is a dangerous street movement which the people of our country need to take seriously. If such an extremist group starts to win seats, well, we all know how history could play out.
(3)

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Kader Nahaboo

October 25, 2010 10:00 AM

Kader Nahaboo.

Any human society has never been, and will never be perfect. Education
conducive to wisdom can change people's minsdsets. In a civilised
society one must learn the intgelligent way to put forward one's beliefs, to
argue for or against one's values, to agree to differ wisely. It's very sad,
and disturbing to encounter individuals in our country to distort painfully
the two great beautiful religions of Christianity and Islam. Those Christians
and Muslims who are so doing have to learn the true values of their respedtive beliefs, they will find themselves on the wrong track, besides they will discover how wrong they are against the non-believers as well.
Those who profess to be Christians or Muslims, must ponder in depth on
their beliefs, they will find out the tolerance and respect those two great
religions can offer.
(3)


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Mr D Leslie

October 25, 2010 10:01 AM

Mr D Leslie.

Whilst there is evidence that some groups/people take offence on behalf of others who they do not represent (a councillor up here complained about a Tayside Police information brochure that included a picture of a dog, which Muslims may, or may not, consider unclean), there are indications that some religious groups/sections who do not wish to comply with the laws of the land, or who wish to impose their beliefs on others. One indication was the Muslim who stated that if his wife was not forced to wear a Burka in public he would not let her out of the house.
As others have said, multiculturalism has failed, not just in this country, but just about everywhere. Governments need to accept this and promore assimilation as the way forward.
(9)


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christine blackshaw

October 25, 2010 10:03 AM

christine blackshaw.

If the disgruntled and unhappy Muslim youth don't like our lifestyle, then they should be pioneers as were their grandparents in coming here, and make new lives for themselves in Muslim countries.
(21)


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TB

October 25, 2010 10:08 AM

TB.

'ensuring Christian values are upheld' Wouldn't these values be turning the other cheek, living in tolerance with our neighbours and helping those less fortunate? These values appear to be just what the EDF is fighting against.
(9)




Joannah Yacoub

October 25, 2010 10:09 AM

Joannah Yacoub.

I hate this and hate the use of the Red Cross to further their crackpot programme. There is nothing "Christian" or "English" about these people, and anyway, using the Red Cross of the Knight's Hospitalers or the cross of Saint George is misleading. The Hospitalers were Middle East and Malta based, as well as a major scourge of the Jews at the time and Saint George was a Turk, also based in the Orient. Neither had anything to do with England. This is ignorance on legs and endangers every single aid worker in the Middle East, especially the genuine Red Cross who do fantastic work in very difficult conditions. We should stop this rubbish, even if it means dumping feasts like Saint George's Day and the use of this cross as a symbol, whether for football or anything else as otherwise, we legitimise what is a very nasty organisation.
(4)

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San Toi

October 25, 2010 10:23 AM

San Toi.

I suggest we re-name it Purchasemass. Only kidding, I love Chrimbolina, and I think we should preserve it in all its true traditions indefinitely.

On the less, pressing issue - how can we take a man in a plastic horror mask seriously - it is a serious subject, but Hannibal Hector here is a joke.
(6)


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Joe Ogden

October 25, 2010 10:24 AM

Joe Ogden.

Y does every one here keep comparing the EDL to the BNP the EDL arnt a political party for crying out loud , jus working class people standing up for what we belive in. Why do the MDL or UAF never get bad press when infact the UAF have more arrests than the EDL an tthe MDL spark off 99% of violence .... This country needs to stand up and realise whats goin off!!
(11)

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Text

October 25, 2010 10:24 AM

Text.

English lessons should be free, in some cases compulsory, and provided by the state.

The minute you speak the language of a country you begin to assimilate and look further than your own community for work and play. Not everyone will have the motivation or courage to do this for themselves so we must hep them or further divide our communities.
(4)


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Anthony Hubert

October 25, 2010 10:27 AM

Anthony Hubert.

The thing is that people turn a blind eye, the media included, to the fact that muslims believe in the message that Jesus Christ sent as he is one of the central prophets in Islam. Hence Christmas, whether the date is set wrongly or rightly, is also a time for celebration amongst muslims. So please don't set this move by misguided councils down at door of those who follow the Islamic faith.
(3)


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daniel case

October 25, 2010 10:31 AM

daniel case.

You can't say they are wrong. After 13 years under the loony left wing this country is overrun with Muslims many of who want to change our way of life. Many town councils pandering to them. I used to be moderate and believe racism to be wrong but after 13 years of Labour ramming it down my neck I am ready to take to the streets to defend my way of life. If my local council decided to change the name of Christmas they would be in very big trouble for sure.
(18)


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Roy Marsh

October 25, 2010 10:31 AM

Roy Marsh.

Please, everyone, whatever your views on multiculturalism, or religious identity, please don't give credibility to a gang of thugs, who wear masks, and act from simple hatred and paranoia. Let them speak but then denounce them for the idiotic minority they are while the rest of us carry the torch of a just and tolerant society.
(5)




Liam B----

October 25, 2010 10:55 AM

Liam B----.

I'm not racist. Although after 13 years of Labour, i can believe their cause and would not be surprised to find them having a lot of (secret) support..

The average UK person is put into 2nd or 3rd place beneath everyone else who is not British.

Our OAP's starve whilst failed asylum seekers are given their sons/daughters tax money to pay for their 20 kids. All of whom do not work or do not pay taxes.

You couldnt make it up!
(17)

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Paul Collins

October 25, 2010 10:59 AM

Paul Collins.

So finally we get to see the face of hate and bigotry in this country was he too scared to show his face or is his acne bad at the moment I think he should move to Germany more chances of becoming prison fodder over there. This hatred of Muslims and foreigners is nothing new it's been around since the crusades may be one day they will realize that purity is from within not something you can create
(5)




Sally Barrett

October 25, 2010 11:11 AM

Sally Barrett.

I find it infuriating that once again the EDL is labeled as extreem far right. I am neither extreem far right nor have I ever been to a football match and yet they have my full support! It is time that the political parties realised that the people are getting sick of all of their PC madness. I just wish a newspaper would actually look in to the true facts and maybe grow a pair of testicles and do a report on Muslims & sharia law that is already in place in OUR country.
(15)


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Peter Bulmer

October 25, 2010 11:59 AM

Peter Bulmer.

I came across this demonstration as I was walking home from a stroll through Hyde Park yesterday, so unlike most of the people posting comments here I actually witnessed what went on (and photographed it.). So, for what it's worth:

Yes, a couple of the EDL demonstrators were wearing masks. They explained that this was because the police had a photographic unit taking close up shots of everyone in the demo. For the same reason, many of the demonstrators in the small Anti-Fascist counter-demo also hid their faces with masks and scarves.

The demo was tiny - a couple of hundred people at most, and the demonstrators were easily outnumbered by the uniformed police who penned them in and sealed off all the side streets from the Israeli embassy up to the middle of Kensington High Street.. God knows what that cost in overtime payments.

I saw no violence at all from either the EDL or the Anti-Fascist demonstrators, though the A-F demonstrators attempted a half-hearted surge towards the EFL pen when a speaker started quoting passages from the koran.

I was astonished to see that the EDL demo apparently included representatives of the Jewish community and homosexual groups.

Bloggers have criticised EDL leader Lennon (or whatever his name is) for his poor grammar - it was noticeable that during his speech he stumbled over quite a few words and had difficulty reading his notes, so I assume that he is mildly dyslexic or nervous about public speaking (or both).
(12)


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SWF66

October 25, 2010 12:02 PM

SWF66.

"[The EDL] would be a lobbyist movement aimed at threatening legislators."

That's a very charitable way of describing veiled threats of violence if the EDL don't get their way. That's not lobbying, that's racketeering.
(2)




Peter Evans

October 25, 2010 12:05 PM

Peter Evans.

Sometimes natives have to assimilate to the newcomers' way of life - to that of Romans, Celts, Saxons, Danes and Normans. Tribes already abound in Britain and Northern Ireland:- protestants, catholics, Welsh and most certainly Scots. Who woukl ban the kilt with its accompaniments? My American grandson is Jewish. My mother's family has lived in the same place for more than 500 years, and their name is Saxon in origin. My Danish wife had a bent finger which is said to have been the genetic fault of a true Viking. People assert identity in response to the threat to it - through territory, languge, religion and costume. Anthems and flags demonstrate identity on football grounds and elsewhere, and the ex-chairman of one club told me that the scattering of fans' ashes at the ground had to be banned. .
(1)




Darren Ali

October 25, 2010 12:10 PM

Darren Ali.

The EDL and all the supporters can expect major opposition to their action and ideology. If those so upset by multi-culturalism step foot into a curry/chinese restaurant or travel abroad then they are exposed as ignorant and hypocritical. Racist? no.

I agree with people integrating however, this should be allowed to happen naturally as it has all over the country and of which I am a product.

I love football and find it tragic that it has been hijacked in this insidious manner.
(1)

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Claude Lombart

October 25, 2010 12:32 PM

Claude Lombart.

72% of the British population have declared their allegiance to Christian values, according to the National Census. This is our history and our culture. The minority of other religions can live peacefully in this country so long as they don't dictate to the majority how to live their lives. We allow mosques to be built in the UK, how many Moslem countries in the Middle East and Gulf region would reciprocate and allow Christian churches to be built in their countries. There isn't a single Christian church in Saudi Arabia and Christians there do not enjoy a fraction of the freedom that Moslems enjoy in the UK.
(11)




Miles Lynn

October 25, 2010 12:45 PM

Miles Lynn.

I am actually already considering leaving this country although I am British. Why ? Because myself (very British and paying lots of tax) and my wife (who is from the Far East) see such bigotry and racism in our posh southern market-town. Get rid of these evil bigots or we leave. I wonder what kind of country it would be like if it were left to them and many more like me simply left. One of these nutters, who displays the flag of St. George (was he not from Turkey or Greece?) said my wife should not be living in this country. Frankly, the Authorities are not politically correct - they are basically too weak to deal with these people who seem to think they are superior to others.
(1)


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Debbie Davies

October 25, 2010 1:23 PM

Debbie Davies.

The slow drip drip of acceptance of extreme right wing views and politics thinly disguised as making a stand for the good of the country is what lead to people like Hitler gaining power. I see groups like the EDL and other right wing groups and I’m scared of what I’m seeing.

By all means be proud of our heritage and history and do not let others take advantage of us but at the same time we must not let this people gain a foothold in our democratic society. The price will be far to high in the long run
(2)


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Karen Wood

October 25, 2010 1:24 PM

Karen Wood.

'Jews have their own equivalent of Sharia courts - nobody objects to these. The reason why this country is Great is down to our ability to accept and learn from other cultures.'

However the Jewish population of the UK is far more integrated than other minorities even so some women have difficulties obtaining a 'religious' divorce from their tribunals. The spread of Sharia tribunals is a problem as they will increasingly become a parallel legal system which despite their 'voluntary' nature will for communities become mandatory due to family and social pressure. Sharia law discriminates against women in ways that are directly in contravention of UK law.

Sharia and other religious law elevates itself above all other laws and there is no appeal. It must not be allowed to take root and UK law must be asserted as paramount. Further information can be found here
http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/
(6)

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Manchester 69

October 25, 2010 1:31 PM

Manchester 69.

Interesting article, however on the home page the banner above the article reads "Racist? So what?" yet I can find no reference to Mr Lennon stating that within the article? I'm aware that the EDL have Asian and Afro-Caribbean members, so I was suprised to see that as a header to the article. Could someone from the editorial team confirm whether I am missing something or was this just an assumption being reported?
(8)




Claire Skrine

October 25, 2010 1:54 PM

Claire Skrine.

'They will 'turn the heat on' to ensure Christian values are upheld.' Erm...since when has 'turning the heat on' in the way I think they mean ever been a Christian value? Just another example of mankind trying to justify violent, selfish, tribal actions by pinning it to an ideology or religion.
(2)


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Ian Bunn

October 25, 2010 2:14 PM

Ian Bunn.

As an atheiest I find myself rolling my eyes more and more at the stories sprouting from some flavour of religion. People are entitled, however, to practice their religious beliefs without interference. I just wish they would do it from the comfort of their own homes.
(2)


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L Frampton

October 25, 2010 3:25 PM

L Frampton.

There is a problem that the English are the only national group that have no representation. Noone to speak on their behalf. We are not even accepted on national form s to exist as an ethnic grouping. No wonder the extremists have a clear field!
(5)

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Bullfrog

October 25, 2010 4:46 PM

Bullfrog.

The report above indicates the EDL's concerns with Islam :

"In a declaration of “war” with Islamic extremism, the English Defence League has vowed to step up its campaign of hardline protests likely to cause violence on the streets of Britain".

Yet the report goes on to say,

"The move comes as the EDL held its first high-profile demonstration on the streets of London, outside the Israeli Embassy".

Any organisation with issues on multiculturalism will include all races.

A paradox that 'anti islamic' issues result in a demonstration outside the Israeli embassy.
(0)


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STUART KERR

October 25, 2010 5:21 PM

STUART KERR.

So Muslims need to swear an oath to the queen, flag and country. But what about all the british people who do not accept or support the queen, or British flag. All the scots, welsh, n.irish and many many English?
(1)




John Samuelson

October 25, 2010 6:41 PM

John Samuelson.

I think the reason that extremists like the EDL can exist at all is because as a nation we seem to have stopped taking pride in our history, traditions and culture, as a matter of course. We are to blame. There seems to be a burst of national pride when there is a major football event on, soon to dissipate as the team inevitably crashes out.

Too many people also don't realise that in terms of ethnicity, "English" is one of the most mongrel of races, so the historical construct of English identity is even more important.

Look at the Scots, Irish, Welsh. As a people they are generally much more conscious of their heritage than we the English. Or Aussies, or Kiwis.

If more was done to teach people where they have come from - then more of us might know where we are going and who we want to be, and realise that the people who gravitate to organisations like the EDL are mostly misguided thugs.
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chas dutton

October 25, 2010 7:20 PM

chas dutton.

Even within our indigenous populace there is tribalism and nationalism; a visit to an 'Old Firm' fixture illustrates it perfectly. So what are the chances of integration between ethnic minorities and natives?
(0)




Laurence Wells

October 25, 2010 8:26 PM

Laurence Wells.

Another group of idiots who are guided by ignorances and passion. Their movement is completely lacking in logical basis. While there are immigrants who leech off our society, there are also many others who are highly productive professionals who contribute to society. The same can be said about local, native Britons.
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Matt Pryor

October 25, 2010 8:27 PM

Matt Pryor.

The vast majority of British Muslims are hard working and loyal to the State. Islamism as a political ideology, however, worries a lot of people who are aware of the havoc it is reaping overseas.

The other week in Kingston a group of Sufi Muslims received death threats from a local Islamist gang. It's not a far cry from the campaign of terror they are waging in Pakistan and elsewhere. There is a great deal of fear in Muslim communities, with intimidation coming from the "native" groups such as the EDL on one side and Islamist groups on the other. Do we want to put them in a position where they have to choose between these two awful mentalities?

Our education secretary, Michael Gove, understands the problem well and has written an excellent book on the subject. Ed Hussein's "The Islamist" is also worth a read, although I disagree with many of his views (particularly Israel).
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Angela Barratt

October 25, 2010 9:18 PM

Angela Barratt.

Ironic really. They want to reclaim Christian values without actually behaving in a Christ-like way. There's more to Christianity than celebrating Christmas.
(0)

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Compton Arthur

October 25, 2010 9:54 PM

Compton Arthur.

The Wesminster Government has totally failed the people of the UK. It is time to call last orders on it and the EEC .
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Common Sense

October 25, 2010 9:58 PM

Common Sense.

If this is what it takes to stop the onslaught of our values and the constant islamic pandering circus, then so be it. I applaud them for standing up for the values that they believe in. If we all took note of how strongly they feel, maybe we could have a better life, rather than just paying more tax, doing less, and complaining more.

Even speaking english doesnt consititue "integration". Integration is a cultural path, not one of secular society.

British Values first. European 2nd. Everything else after that.
Anything else is Pandering and losing out identity. Surte they're great workers, and welcoem in the country, but not if they''re going to be put ahead of our own culture, values, tradtions.
Bring back Xmas (not winter festival), bring back Baa Baa Black Sheep (not rainbow sheep), and anything else houded out by the PC brigade.
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David Hooper

October 25, 2010 10:20 PM

David Hooper.

So do the likes of Mike think Brits abroad should actually learn to speak a language other than English and dissipate their cultural heritage as they merge into their host society? I suspect not. Like so many he displays the arrogance of the British hypocrite.
(0)




paul clarke

October 25, 2010 11:20 PM

paul clarke.

its in mans nature to fight..........picket lines and football matches and right wing marches are just an excuse for the outbursts and ease of gathering groups of men who just want to indulge in the rush of tribal heritage, after all its all we used to do five hundred years ago..albeit without the leftys
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Comments (7)




John James Carty

October 25, 2010 4:46 AM

John James Carty.

You're 'avin' a laugh, aintcher? Any true English patriot would at least speak English. Yet this man with the brown eyes can say, "if we didn't do nothing",
if your reporter's notes are correct.
May we assume that he only likes and wants to preserve those aspects of being English that he understands or remembers?
He's obviously some sort of European spy: he reminds me of the movie 'Firefox' in which Clint Eastwood invaded Russia without a word of Russian.
Good idea to attack other religions, though. Stops us directing him and his pals to their family trees.
You should leave him alone with his L-plates on his face.
(5)

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Peter Maclean

October 25, 2010 5:11 AM

Peter Maclean.

Sadly we have bred like rabbits for the past sixty years + and now have more than three times the population we had in 1946 - this despite the warnings of so many sages. It is this accumulation that is behind so much aggravation....meantime young men have also lost their way due a host of social shifts (primarily mums no longer playing their natural role in life - house husbands do not work where kids are concerned) and unrest is as in the fifties and seventies going to implode again.......but this time we each have less personal space to escape to and have relinquished the drivers that can keep them in check - revolution??- could provide some latter bemusement for us selfish, self-centred Baby Boomers!!!
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Current Bun

October 25, 2010 7:19 AM

Current Bun.

Carty - get your nose out of Fowler's English and go and tour the shires - you will find English similarly misused because that is the vernacular. When you are busy trying to correct this man's grammar, he and his henchmen wil be one step ahead, with a fist.
He's right, the pride which ordinary men could take from their role - jobs in steel manufacturing, mining, car manufacture, ship building etc etc has gone. Thatcher had a pathalogical loathing of the working man as did Blair. It seems the essential pride a person might get from being useful in a society has gone in favour of tick box substandard media study degrees, paper shunting jobs and the right to get drunk on a regular basis.
(15)




Ivor Wander

October 25, 2010 12:52 PM

Ivor Wander.

@ Alex Jones

The British working classes are more directly affected than any other part of society by immigration because they have to compete with the newcomers for housing and jobs.

Iam not surprised that the EDL is gaining traction, the major political parties have not addressed the problems caused by mass immigration the loss of traditional industries and poor social mobility caused in part by the lack of social housing.
(15)




Clare Marks

October 25, 2010 1:27 PM

Clare Marks.

Great! I for one am really looking forward to this pillock and his band of merry men causing mayhem throughout the country; like he said “We are now sending letters to every council saying that if you change the name of Christmas we are coming in our thousands and shutting your town down.” let me think, we do not tolerate terrorism from outside of the UK, so why from the inside??? Back to the football grounds with you my lad!!!
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Ronald Van Putten

October 26, 2010 2:08 AM

Ronald Van Putten.

This happens when mainstream politics looses touch with their roots, are we willing to give up hundreds of years of culture to a bunch of agressive newcommers, people come here out of free choice because it is better here then where they came from,
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Evans Graham

October 26, 2010 5:52 AM

Evans Graham.

Come back Adolf, but this time 'no more Mr. Nice Guy'
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Comments (8)




Hugh Harnett

October 25, 2010 12:23 AM

Hugh Harnett.

Stephen Lennon, appears to be a person who it would be unwise to take lightly. He has seen the PR necessity sanitize the far right by clearly distancing his movement from antisemitism and homophobia. Maybe he sees himself as Britain's answer to Geert Wilders?
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Daren Miller

October 25, 2010 7:48 AM

Daren Miller.

Hugh Harnett - there is no difference between antisemetism and antimuslim activism - they are both racism and as odious as each other.

Rabbi Shifren is not representitive of the uk jewish community nor in the USA indeed in the US he is the self proclaimes 'surfing Rabbi'

His lectures include topics such as:

1) Can I be Jewish and still be a professional surfer?
2) What is the connection between Torah, Mysticism, and Surfing?
(0)




stella hollis

October 25, 2010 7:55 AM

stella hollis.

If only the Press ignored these loud mouthed publicity seeking minor minorities who could not themselves together with such supporters as they have buy a half page ad in a local paper they might realise their insignificance . And this applies equally to television which whips up protesters by its very presence .
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D Koffman

October 25, 2010 9:20 AM

D Koffman.

To attack all Moslems is like advocating the putting down of every dog because of pit bull terriers. As a Jewish supporter of Israel I condemn Hamas but defend the right of all peace loving Moslems to live in peace. Accordingly I also strongly condemn "the senior (sic) US rabbi", Nachum Sifren in his support of the English Defence League.
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Ivor Wander

October 25, 2010 12:55 PM

Ivor Wander.

Just shows how the actions of Israel has caused the Jews in the diaspora to resort to supporting right wing neo facists who would have been the people the Jews would have fought in Cable Street in years gone by, which is kind of ironic if you think about it.
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Clare Marks

October 25, 2010 1:32 PM

Clare Marks.

Like the lady said, football hooligans...
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vince paul

October 25, 2010 2:12 PM

vince paul.

Why is everyone that protesters a football hooligan??

When they are just normal people who, are seen they way of life changed, by so called people who are come to the UK for a better life.

The people that come here are trying to make our country the same as the crap country they have come from.
If they don't or cannot join in to our way of life then our country is not for them and they should move back to they country or find another country that is to they way of life.

People who move to any given country should fit in with that countries way of life and not try to change it.

You wouldn't go to another country and try to change the way they live??

You move to another country because it may give you a better life, and because you like the way they do things. i.e school your children, help you when ill, fair policing for all, help when you have no work to feed your family. etc....
You don't try to make it like the country you have just left.
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Hugh Harnett

October 25, 2010 2:46 PM

Hugh Harnett.

Daren Miller,

Not too sure what you mean by the whole Jewish Surfer business, but I suspect you misunderstood me.

In no way shape or form do I sympathise with the EDL. My post was simply commenting that the likes of Stephen Lennon are not too be taken lightly.

By inviting a Rabbi and including a rainbow flag in his demonstration, shows that he has the political savvy to distance himself from anti-Semitism and homophobia making the usual label of neo-Nazi / fascist hard to pin on the EDL.

That is not to say his statements are any more palatable.
The rest of the comments to each article, in the order that the articles appear above:

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Comments (2)




Alison Figueiredo

October 25, 2010 9:20 AM

Alison Figueiredo.

Not a single mention of the "anti fascists" groups marching and their part in the resulting violence - not to mention their tendency to only protest the EDL and never extremist muslim demos in any of your articles. Are you even pretending to be balanced in any of this? Good grief.
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Ivor Wander

October 25, 2010 12:59 PM

Ivor Wander.

Those who support the imposition of Sharia Law in the United Kingdom deliberatly provoke and antagonise the EDL with their counter demonstrations in the hope of ccausing violence.

In the full knowledge that the vast majority of the indigenous population would reject any group which uses violence to get it's message across.

When in reality they are fully aware that the message the EDL is trying to expose is actually one the vast majority of the indigenous population of the United Kingdom agree with
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Comments (10)




Text

October 24, 2010 9:41 PM

Text.

I think you'll find managing immigration at 1980's levels and stopping using the UK tax take as a vast charity fund to make the lives of non British people better will help the anger recede. We don't think the 3rd world and its beliefs are our problem and we don't want ever more of them foisted on us, to be housed and paid for at our expense while they lecture us on our lack of tolerance.
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Robert Dewar

October 25, 2010 4:43 AM

Robert Dewar.

The EDL taps into the anger felt by all those native-born or empire-born Englishmen (and Britons) against the political elite (encompassing the 3 main parties), the chattering classes in general, and the spoiled commentariat - all those who feel that their birth or educations entitle them to take far-reaching decisions on England's social, political, economic and cultural future without reference to the wishes of the ethnic majority (or as the official EDL line would have it, to the English cultural majority).
Alienation is the theme of this age in Britain, and in England in particular. Millions of citizens, those whose ancestry is English, believe that their values are discounted today, that their aspirations are mocked, that their wishes for the future are consigned to the political gutter. Many such have temporarily hitched their wagons to the Tories, but when the true extent of Tory fellow-travelling dawns on them (the current regime's fundamental fondness for the EU, which offers huge riches and cast-iron security to many of it's politicians on the day when they move on from British politics); that the Tories under Cameron are touchy-feely metropolites, spouting rubbish about paternity leave for fathers, and proud of the vast number of gay MPs within it's ranks; that these people have not the slightest feeling for the working class - which is NOT yet dead - and who deride it's parochialism; that the Tories' political stress on multiculturalism, and their political readiness to accord overweighted emphasis to the presence of a foreign Muslim minority (witness the number of Muslim Tory peers); as the ordinary, British-born Englishmen and women come to comprehend how scorned they are by the Tory leadership, and how their values and aspirations are ignored, they will desert the Tories in droves, and this is when the EDL can and will ramp up it's influence on political decision-makers. That the Tories' promises of economic recovery will also prove to be chimerical (that is, lies), will fuel the groundswell of hatred against all establishment politicians, and especially the Tories. More and more Englishmen and women (yes, of all races, but primarily those whose ancestry is English, or at least, British), will come to sympathise with the aims of the EDL supporters.
I loathe the EDL worldview, but I comprehend it. I dread the rise of the equivalent of an English Tea Party (narrow-minded, given to petty hatreds and mean-spirited judgementalism and denunciations), but there is part of me which says "More strength to them!" . . . .
. . . . because the established political parties have the system so thoroughly sewn up, and work it to their own advantage time and time again, and are giving the finger to the people of Britain., not only to the native English-born.
(10)

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Sally Barrett

October 25, 2010 11:44 AM

Sally Barrett.

Here is an idea...Maybe, just maybe if the Govenment stopped selling us out and stuck up for the British we would not need organisations such as the EDL. The EDL are growing at 250 new supporters a day. The political powers need to start listening and stop Sharia Law Courts, Halal only meat in NHS, building of copious amounts of new mosques and start reinvesting in to Britain. How can a 3% population make such demands and 97% ignored?

Well done to the EDL!!!
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Liquidator

October 25, 2010 11:45 AM

Liquidator.

Why cant John Cruddas and his like just accept that we can now see the elephant in the room and so can Angela Merkel. He has no mandate to speak for people like myself and the millions of others who would not vote for the same old moribund and handcuffed 3 party whip. No matter how much the liberal elite try to re-educate and confront our 'non-conformist' views about the so-called great benefits of diversity he only serves but to stoke the flames of discontent even further.
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daniel case

October 25, 2010 12:07 PM

daniel case.

The EDF are the true face of the feelings of most Englishmen who have had to suffer as they watch their country given away to foreigners.
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Ivor Wander

October 25, 2010 1:18 PM

Ivor Wander.

John Cruddas is not in direct competition with immigrants for housing and local resources. Much of which is seen being given to newly arrived immigrants who are perceived rightly or wrongly to get everything they demand to keep them quite.

Until the ruling political classes sort that out, the EDL will grow in size.
(8)




vince paul

October 25, 2010 2:26 PM

vince paul.

It's easy to stop the immigrants getting anything, If you have not paid TAX and national insurance then you don't get any help with benefits, housing and any other local resources.
Whats the point of payment tax and national insurance, if you and your family don't get to use what you paid for.

It would be like you going to your next door neighbours, paying all your bills and doing the house up for them to live in. You just wouldn't do it.

So why do we let immigrants come here and do it??
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Vanessa Hudson
October 25, 2010 6:56 PM



The EDL's aims are not simply to voice opposition against Islamic extremism, they also seek justice for the underdog against Islamification and enforced multiculturism which unfortunately has been imposed in the main upon the working class.
To label all it's members as uneducated thugs who's main aim is to create violent disorder is indeed naive and misguided.
Perhaps if those who oppose EDL removed their rose tinted glasses and experienced the TRUE reality of life in a multicultural town where Muslims are the majority over whites and other ethnics, then they'd see the massive problems that exist and the real threat of the melting pot boiling over.

Multiculturism can never be successful if certain cultures refuse to integrate, insisting not only in retaining their own ideals and culture but also attempting to impose those ideals on the host nation whilst at the same time showing contempt for that very country.

Of course the majority of politicians and upper and middle class members of society have no real perception of these problems, nor do they really care. They sit in their safe havens of ignorance and spout a plethora of misinformed garbage about being politically correct and embracing multiculturism whilst at the same time never really having to co exist along side it.
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Common Sense

October 25, 2010 11:20 PM

Common Sense.

10 years contirbutions in Tax, NI, Living here before any benefits paid. Leave the EU, Close the borders, Stop the wars, concentrate on ourselves for a change.
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Alison Figueiredo

October 26, 2010 8:57 AM

Alison Figueiredo.

Third time lucky posting this perhaps?

Where were you to tell us its time we confront hatred when a group of men blew up the London transport system murdered over 50 people and injured hundreds and days later tried again?
Where were you confronting the hatred that marched through Luton's streets against British soldiers coming home?
Where were you confronting the racism on show in 2006 when groups of Al Qaeda supporting racists were allowed to demonstrate and call to murder on our streets?
Where were you when thugs turned out to barrack women turning up to vote in Tower Hamlets for being 'immodestly dressed'?
Where were you when hook handed extremists preached violent racism and hatred in London streets as local people walked around in fear?
Where were you when sharia courts were established wherein chief leaders of it suggest that marital rape is not rape?
Where were you when preachers of hate were allowed to preach about beating up women and gays from inside mosques inside this country (Undercover Mosque)?
Where are you as more and more British born women choose to adopt tribal desert clothing as a symbol of rejection of all around them - a middle finger to women as equal citizens in a liberal democracy?

Along with everyone else wringing your hands is where you were. Or in Ken Livingstone's case along with other politicians of his ilk embracing that kind of racism fully.
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Edited by General Pershing, Oct 26 2010, 11:14 AM.
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waspish
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Its clear from this interview that some people are actually thinking that mabey the e.d.l arent going to go away. I think that some newspapers are going to have to print the truth (that will be first for most of them) now that Tower Hamlets is turning into a muslim ghetto the press will have to print the rise in crime, drugsa and blatant benefit frauds that the special ones are oh so good at. let them run with it. when the brown stuff hits the fan we can all stand up and say WE TOLD YOU SO..
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nothing better than free publicity, the articles are a lot better than they could have been.
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Some interesting comments made though I am suprised at the ignorance of some posters who obviously know nothing of the EDL but still pass comment on the EDL.

They're probably too far up their own noses to research a street movement of peasants.
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Night_Crawler
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I stopped reading on halfway past pic 2.
It's obvious from the get go it's sputing out vile lies to try and damage us, and is not going to give us type of a fair review.
It starts of with being anti EDL and continues to be anti EDL till the end.
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Thank you for posting this, I particularly enjoyed the comments most of which are very supportive of us in principle. A very long but worthwhile read. :)
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infidel 9755
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Christine Patriot
Oct 26 2010, 06:47 PM
Some interesting comments made though I am suprised at the ignorance of some posters who obviously know nothing of the EDL but still pass comment on the EDL.

They're probably too far up their own noses to research a street movement of peasants.
and ignorant is exactly what they are.
'islam should get what ever it demands, all criticism of it is racism' -Pat Condell

Dont bite the hand that feeds you,
it may punch you in the face.
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jayfer72
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Kafir
i like this comment...

""The Pen is only mightier than the sword if those using it have INK. Think about it""

maybe the poster is referring to a petition to number 10?.....and using the same tactics that the mooslimes use to get what they want?


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Irish_Kid
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cheers General Black Jack :)
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http://theopinionator.typepad.com/ << The blog which reports the news you never see from mainstream media!
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jayfer72
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Kafir
where can i get one of those coats with the goggles in the hood? look smart as fcuk!...
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ENUFisENUF
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jayfer72
Oct 26 2010, 08:58 PM
where can i get one of those coats with the goggles in the hood? look smart as fcuk!...
I'm hearing ya!!! That gas mask look is ubercool ;-)
“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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londonloyal
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almost certain you can get them here
http://www.silvermans.co.uk/Products/tabid/54/Department/Military/Category/JACKETS%20%20%20SMOCKS/id/1/Text/80/page/1/Default.aspx
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littlejohn
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I like the bit about the ' terraces' at football matches, not been lately have we? Unless we are talking non=league of course.
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tobias malachi
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Intersting point the artical in the Times about the EDL on Monday. This morning the Indipendent ran a large artical about the demise of Christianity in the Middle East not because of Christians leaving the faith but because they are being out-bread by the muslims, which is exactly what we have been saying about what is happening in this country. This leads to the question. Have the serious papers decided that there may be some truth in what we have been saying and have decided to investigate for them selves.
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There's an article by Julie Birchill in tomorrow's Independent

on Lauren Booth's conversion. I don't think it will be flattering, either.
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brianoflondon
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ENUFisENUF
Oct 26 2010, 09:00 PM
jayfer72
Oct 26 2010, 08:58 PM
where can i get one of those coats with the goggles in the hood? look smart as fcuk!...
I'm hearing ya!!! That gas mask look is ubercool ;-)
I've got masks for the whole family in my bomb shelter but I'm not allowed to open the boxes till the "Rear Command" orders me to.

Not kidding.
Brian of London has been actively occupying a very small slice of hideously over-occupied Tel Aviv since early 2009.


Islam is a giant bungee cord tying it's adherents to the 7th century.
They can pull themselves almost to the twenty first century but eventually the cord tightens and flings them back.
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ste-plaza
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General Black Jack Pershing, many thanks for posting this. Admittedly a long read but worth it to see what the broad sheets make of us. They were still biased, but I suppose there is no such thing as bad publicity. The word is getting out there, that is the main thing. I see that a lot of the comments were favourable in one way or another. But sadly many of the population who posted still can’t see the wood for the trees, and have absolutely no idea what is going on, and what makes us tick as individuals.

Peace
Ste
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phillips
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ste-plaza
Oct 27 2010, 12:53 AM
General Black Jack Pershing, many thanks for posting this. Admittedly a long read but worth it to see what the broad sheets make of us. They were still biased, but I suppose there is no such thing as bad publicity. The word is getting out there, that is the main thing. I see that a lot of the comments were favourable in one way or another. But sadly many of the population who posted still can’t see the wood for the trees, and have absolutely no idea what is going on, and what makes us tick as individuals.

Peace
Ste
Yeah not many good ones was there, just bin on the Daily Star site but theres no comments on there
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stormcrow
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what you have to remember is its the times.read by the very people who dont live in areas of multi-culturalism.who quite frankley would never go anywhere near a muslim ghetto.the very people who believe that the working classes( us )should know our place.and it isnt in the times.lol.
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2011....THE YEAR THE UAF DIED.
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phillips
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Yeah fook em
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