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«Yet scapegoating Israel won't atone you».
Topic Started: Oct 16 2010, 06:39 PM (2,077 Views)
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peterpedant
Oct 18 2010, 01:28 PM
VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 12:58 PM
Comparing international waters with taking a wrong turn up a Bradford street.... :D
1. Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.

2. Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognised measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.

3. A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral states.

4. Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area. That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.

5. A state (Yes, including the yet to be de-legitimised state if Isreal) may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.
thats all well and good but it doesnt solve the islamic paedophile problem in keighley.
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Arthur
Oct 18 2010, 01:55 PM
We discussed this a long time ago and the leadership team agreed that we would support Israels right to exist and that there would be a Jewish division, so it is EDLs official policy.

Arthur.
So basically what you're saying is that the leadership made a decision and that can't be discussed further by anybody?
I am neither arguing against Israel or the Jewish Division's right to exist.
I will argue broadly that the minority groups which you constantly court, while ignoring the grass roots meat and potato English working-class who put the EDL where it is in the first place, still haven't shown in any great numbers.
Browbeating people into support of Israel isn't going to work, the English are by nature defiant and as history has shown us don't react well to being dictated to, especially regarding dress code.
I posted something which I thought was humourous, my mistake as it then leads to posts designed to browbeat and posts such as yours which seek to stifle free speech.
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brianoflondon
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VillaLoyal, I, for one, am fine with your stance (not that you need ego massage from a Jew and a Zionist to boot :) ) and I also thought we had some good banter going here. You keep objecting and challenging and I'll keep coming back with a smile and a laugh. I've got no problem at all when it stays like this.
Brian of London has been actively occupying a very small slice of hideously over-occupied Tel Aviv since early 2009.


Islam is a giant bungee cord tying it's adherents to the 7th century.
They can pull themselves almost to the twenty first century but eventually the cord tightens and flings them back.
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lan-astaslem
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peterpedant
Oct 18 2010, 11:21 AM
So its all about body counts is it? FYI more Palestinians were killed by fellow Arabs on black September alone than the entire state of Israel has in all of its its existence.

For this statement you would be banned from leftist forums, Black September are heroes of the resistance

The Black September Organization (BSO) was a Palestinian militant secular group, founded in 1970

The group's name derives from the Black September conflict begun on 16 September 1970, when King Hussein of Jordan declared military rule in response to a fedayeen coup d’état to seize his kingdom — resulting in the deaths of 10,000 Palestinians from Jordan. The BSO began as a small cell of Fatah men determined to take revenge upon King Hussein and the Jordanian army.

The group's most infamous operation was the killing of 11 Israeli athletes, nine of whom were first taken hostage, and the killing of a German police officer, during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich. Black September's official name for the operation was "Ikrit and Biram", after the names of two Palestinian villages whose residents had been killed or expelled by the Israeli military Haganah in 1948

Other actions attributed to Black September include:

28 November 1971: the assassination of Jordan's prime minister,

December 1971: attempted assassination of Zeid al Rifai, Jordan's ambassador to London and former chief of the Jordanian royal court;

6 February 1972: sabotage of a West German electrical installation and gas plants in Ravenstein and Ommen in the Netherlands and in Hamburg in West Germany;

8 May, 1972: hijacking of a Belgian aircraft, Sabena Flight 572, flying from Vienna to Lod.

September and October 1972: dozens of letter bombs were sent from Amsterdam to Israeli diplomatic posts around the world, killing Israeli Agricultural Counselor Ami Shachori in Britain.

1 March 1973: attack on the Saudi embassy in Khartoum, killing Cleo Noel, United States Chief of Mission to Sudan, George Curtis Moore, the US Deputy Chief of Mission to Sudan, and Guy Eid, the Belgian chargé d'affaires to Sudan

2 March 1973 1973 New York bomb plot

5 August 1973: two Palestinian militants claiming affiliation with Black September open fire on a passenger lounge in an Athens airport, killing 5 and wounding 55. A Lufthansa Boeing 737 is hijacked in December to demand that the gunmen be freed from Greek custody

The result of their revenge for the slaughter of 10,000 Palestinians

1 Jordanian killed
1 Belgian killed
2 Americans killed
5 Greeks killed
12 Israelis killed

“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 02:02 PM
thats all well and good but it doesnt solve the islamic paedophile problem in keighley.
Why should I care about what happens in keighley, I live in London?
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peterpedant
Oct 18 2010, 03:01 PM
clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 02:02 PM
thats all well and good but it doesnt solve the islamic paedophile problem in keighley.
Why should I care about what happens in keighley, I live in London?
thats probobly the crappest comment ive ever seen on this forum tbh.
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brianoflondon
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clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 03:04 PM
peterpedant
Oct 18 2010, 03:01 PM
clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 02:02 PM
thats all well and good but it doesnt solve the islamic paedophile problem in keighley.
Why should I care about what happens in keighley, I live in London?
thats probobly the crappest comment ive ever seen on this forum tbh.
I thought it was pretty astute myself.

Jihad is global, you fight your corner, don't stop Israelis fighting ours.
Brian of London has been actively occupying a very small slice of hideously over-occupied Tel Aviv since early 2009.


Islam is a giant bungee cord tying it's adherents to the 7th century.
They can pull themselves almost to the twenty first century but eventually the cord tightens and flings them back.
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lan-astaslem
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clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 02:02 PM
thats all well and good but it doesnt solve the islamic paedophile problem in keighley.
Are you saying there is still a problem in Keighley
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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brianoflondon
Oct 18 2010, 03:09 PM
clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 03:04 PM
peterpedant
Oct 18 2010, 03:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
thats probobly the crappest comment ive ever seen on this forum tbh.
I thought it was pretty astute myself.

Jihad is global, you fight your corner, don't stop Israelis fighting ours.
i know exactly what he meant!

whos stopping you fighting yours mate?
no one i can see?

im more concerned with islamics grooming our kids in the UK
personally speaking though.
israel can look after itself ! good luck to you all.
im yet to find an israeli movement thats falling over itself with the problems we've got here in the UK.
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clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 03:04 PM
thats probobly the crappest comment ive ever seen on this forum tbh.
Crappy or selfish/Short sighted?

I thought it was more selfish/short sighted myself. tbh. ^_^
clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 03:26 PM
im more concerned with islamics grooming our kids in the UK
They are not grooming your kids are they?
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mate you dont half suit your forum name :P
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clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 03:41 PM
mate you dont half suit your forum name :P
And the Emperor said "Throw the pedants to the lions!” And the pedants replied: “Which kind of lions? There are a few, you know..” ;)
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Jim_54
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lan-astaslem
Oct 18 2010, 08:21 AM
uk4ever
Oct 17 2010, 09:57 PM
recently.
1,133 Israelis and an estimated 5,144 Palestinians (including 952 children) have been killed since September 2000. From UN data, the post-1967 avoidable mortality (excess mortality) in the Occupied Palestinian Territories totals 300,000 and the post-1967 under-5 infant mortality 183,000 (of which 90% has been avoidable) - as compared to 2,178 post-1967 Israeli terrorism deaths (Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs figures).



... also check http://anonym.to?http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7375994.stm if you want to feel really sick.

you will notice a demographic change similar to our problems here

Deaths from Internal Palestinian Violence

Since 2005, there has been a marked increase in the number of Palestinian deaths resulting from internal violence. In 2005, only 4% of the total Palestinian deaths for that year were the result of internal conflict. In 2006, the figures rose to 17% and in 2007, deaths from internal violence accounted for 65% of the total Palestinian death toll.

More than twice as many Palestinians were killed by other Palestinians (415) in 2007 as were killed by Israelis (185).

The cause of deaths from internal violence has changed. From the beginning of the intifada until the end of 2004, 72% of internal deaths were for alleged collaboration. The remaining deaths were detainees, accidents with firearms or gunfire incidents between the police and individuals.

Since January 2005, a different trend has emerged with 74 % of the deaths occurring as a result of factional fighting, 13% from family and clan feuds, 3% from so called “immoral behaviour” and 10% for other reasons or reasons that were unclear. Only eleven of the 573 internally related deaths, during that period, were for alleged collaboration.

During the most recent round of factional fighting in June 2007 armed groups engaged in acts that appeared contrary to international law including summary executions,torture,attacking ambulances and putting the lives of civilians at risk.

In June alone, 193 Palestinians were killed of which 181 were from factional violence.The rise of inter-factional fighting has also proved deadly for children: since 2005 a total of 39 Palestinian children have died from internal fighting. In 2007, approximately the same number of Palestinian children was killed as a result of internal violence (26) as were killed by Israeli security forces (25).

The changing patterns of internally related deaths reveal fundamental changes in the nature of Palestinian society particularly in the Gaza Strip. Whereas once collaboration constituted the ultimate crime because of a unified focus on resistance to the Israeli occupation, current concerns have focused inwards. Dominating them has been the Fatah and Hamas rivalries springing from the political divisions that have emerged largely as a result of the 2006 Palestinian Legislative elections.

The increasing lack of law and order to has also eroded public confidence, in the ability of the security forces to ensure protection. Consequently, many Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have sought protection from individual clans and family groups whose power has increased. But coupled with increasing gun ownership, family based disputes have also led to an increasing number of fatalities. In 2005 there were no recorded incidents of deaths caused by family fighting: by July 2007 there were 72 such cases.

There has also been an increase in the number of deaths for so called “immoral behaviour” including alleged drug dealing and honour killings, suggesting the increasing influence of Islamic groups. Since 2005 there have been 19 deaths for this reason with the figure for 2007 (14) almost three times that of 2006 (5). Although both men and women are victims, in 2007 there have been 11 cases of honour killings of women, (four cases in July) all reported in the Gaza Strip.

Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA)

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/be07c80cda4579468525734800500272?OpenDocument

Unless otherwise indicated all figures used in this paper are derived from a combination of OCHA and B’Tselem data.

The link you gave goes to the BBC where the also link to B’Tselem data

When you compare the data from BBC and compare it with the data B’Tselem data a lot of figures do not add up

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7375994.stm

http://www.btselem.org/english/statistics/Casualties.asp

So once again the BBC are caught out passing porkies

One very interesting thing to note the figures do not look good for Israel here, yet it is the Israelis who are publishing these figures.

Question remains what sort of figures would the arab publish.

If we would believe the Arabs there would be no conflict today as there would not be any alive, We just have to look at Jenin

"Jenin remained sealed throughout the invasion and rumors of a massacre circulated. Stories of hundreds or thousands of civilians being killed in their homes as they were demolished spread throughout the Arab world.

When it was over they where claiming 500

Subsequent investigations found no evidence to substantiate claims of a massacre. At least 52 Palestinians, mostly gunmen and 23 IDF soldiers were killed in the fighting.

Your right there, the BBC have always had a little soft spot for the Palestinians.
You ought to have seen the amount of coverage they gave to Arafat’s funeral.

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peterpedant
Oct 18 2010, 03:01 PM
clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 02:02 PM
thats all well and good but it doesnt solve the islamic paedophile problem in keighley.
Why should I care about what happens in keighley, I live in London?
Comments like that one, indicate to me that you support Israel before the EDL. The comments of the pro-Israel lobby on here have started to become divisive, IN MY OPINION
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Quiet_Man
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VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 07:55 PM
peterpedant
Oct 18 2010, 03:01 PM
clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 02:02 PM
thats all well and good but it doesnt solve the islamic paedophile problem in keighley.
Why should I care about what happens in keighley, I live in London?
Comments like that one, indicate to me that you support Israel before the EDL. The comments of the pro-Israel lobby on here have started to become divisive, IN MY OPINION
Actually all it says is that he supports London before Keighley.

You seem to be the one with a problem in supporting a democratic nations fight against Islamic tyranny.
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”

George Orwell
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Quiet_Man
Oct 18 2010, 08:02 PM
VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 07:55 PM
peterpedant
Oct 18 2010, 03:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Comments like that one, indicate to me that you support Israel before the EDL. The comments of the pro-Israel lobby on here have started to become divisive, IN MY OPINION
Actually all it says is that he supports London before Keighley.

You seem to be the one with a problem in supporting a democratic nations fight against Islamic tyranny.
I have a personal problem supporting a nation which was forged on the cold blooded murder of British servicemen by terrorists. Do you have a problem with that?
I am not anti-Israel, I am not pro-Israel. I will not however sit by and let British victims of terrorist attacks, which are now celebrated in Israel, be forgotten. If my view is contrary or damaging to the EDL, I have no problems in terminating my association, as I would never, and refuse to deny the sacrifice made by British servicemen because it would suit an argument.
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villa m8...never terminate your association with the EDL ffs.
membership would half overnight if anyone with views like yours were said to be damaging to the EDL.
you know theres a lot of people with the same views as well,inc those that have actually lived there!
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Quiet_Man
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VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 08:11 PM
Quiet_Man
Oct 18 2010, 08:02 PM
VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 07:55 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Actually all it says is that he supports London before Keighley.

You seem to be the one with a problem in supporting a democratic nations fight against Islamic tyranny.
I have a personal problem supporting a nation which was forged on the cold blooded murder of British servicemen by terrorists. Do you have a problem with that?
I am not anti-Israel, I am not pro-Israel. I will not however sit by and let British victims of terrorist attacks, which are now celebrated in Israel, be forgotten. If my view is contrary or damaging to the EDL, I have no problems in terminating my association, as I would never, and refuse to deny the sacrifice made by British servicemen because it would suit an argument.
Do you have a similar problem with Americans celebrating the 4th of July?
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”

George Orwell
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Quiet_Man
Oct 18 2010, 08:02 PM
Actually all it says is that he supports London before Keighley.

it doesnt actually -

its peter talk :D
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Quiet_Man
Oct 18 2010, 08:29 PM
VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 08:11 PM
Quiet_Man
Oct 18 2010, 08:02 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I have a personal problem supporting a nation which was forged on the cold blooded murder of British servicemen by terrorists. Do you have a problem with that?
I am not anti-Israel, I am not pro-Israel. I will not however sit by and let British victims of terrorist attacks, which are now celebrated in Israel, be forgotten. If my view is contrary or damaging to the EDL, I have no problems in terminating my association, as I would never, and refuse to deny the sacrifice made by British servicemen because it would suit an argument.
Do you have a similar problem with Americans celebrating the 4th of July?
I didn't know anyone who served in the British Army during the American Revolution, but I wouldn't celebrate the 4th of July myself, do you?
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VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 02:07 PM
Arthur
Oct 18 2010, 01:55 PM
We discussed this a long time ago and the leadership team agreed that we would support Israels right to exist and that there would be a Jewish division, so it is EDLs official policy.

Arthur.
So basically what you're saying is that the leadership made a decision and that can't be discussed further by anybody?
I am neither arguing against Israel or the Jewish Division's right to exist.
I will argue broadly that the minority groups which you constantly court, while ignoring the grass roots meat and potato English working-class who put the EDL where it is in the first place, still haven't shown in any great numbers.
Browbeating people into support of Israel isn't going to work, the English are by nature defiant and as history has shown us don't react well to being dictated to, especially regarding dress code.
I posted something which I thought was humourous, my mistake as it then leads to posts designed to browbeat and posts such as yours which seek to stifle free speech.
A bit quick off the mark there Villa mate, simply posting a fact, how that is browbeating I don't know and it certainly wasn't intended to be taken that way.

Arthur.
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VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 07:55 PM
Comments like that one, indicate to me that you support Israel before the EDL. The comments of the pro-Israel lobby on here have started to become divisive, IN MY OPINION
Do you really think so? I thought I would make a point by following your short sighted and selfish thought process to see what response I would get.

Despite your blinkered and isolated view, I see view what is happening in Israel no different to what's happening in Keighley. My solidarity and support lies with ANYONE at the sharp end of the GLOBAL JIHAD.

Whats wrong with that?
Jim_54
Oct 18 2010, 07:35 PM
Your right there, the BBC have always had a little soft spot for the Palestinians.
You ought to have seen the amount of coverage they gave to Arafat’s funeral.

And who could forget Barbara Plett openly sobbing at Arafats funeral :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3966139.stm

clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 08:34 PM
its peter talk :D
Clee, you know me too well mate :D
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peterpedant
Oct 18 2010, 08:41 PM
VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 07:55 PM
Comments like that one, indicate to me that you support Israel before the EDL. The comments of the pro-Israel lobby on here have started to become divisive, IN MY OPINION
Do you really think so? I thought I would make a point by following your short sighted and selfish thought process to see what response I would get.

Despite your blinkered and isolated view, I see view what is happening in Israel no different to what's happening in Keighley. My solidarity and support lies with ANYONE at the sharp end of the GLOBAL JIHAD.

Whats wrong with that?
You made light of the suffering of young girls in Keighley to try and prove a point, judging by your subsequent post you are obviously proud of the fact, classy.
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ENUFisENUF
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How has Israel and its right to exist become a slanging match?
If we knuckle down and see what we are BOTH fighting against, we see we are all fighting the same foe.
I for one do not think Israel deserves its reputation as an aggressive nation. To me it is a nation defending its people against an onslaught of aggressors. I would be horrified if, in 50 years time when Islam takes over the UK, there are not people out there arguing for britain's right to exist.

I'm not a jew, I'm not a zionist....but I am a believer in freedom and democracy. Last I looked Israel was the ONLY beacon of freedom and democracy in the middle east. They stand between us and a sh1t load of jihadii headache.

“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 08:45 PM
You made light of the suffering of young girls in Keighley to try and prove a point, judging by your subsequent post you are obviously proud of the fact, classy.
"If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time-a tremendous whack."

~ Winston Churchill
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peterpedant
Oct 18 2010, 08:53 PM
VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 08:45 PM
You made light of the suffering of young girls in Keighley to try and prove a point, judging by your subsequent post you are obviously proud of the fact, classy.
"If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time-a tremendous whack."

~ Winston Churchill

That's it, try and justify it by using Churchill..... I am sure he wouldn't have used the plight of young girls to prove a point on an Internet forum, but it's obviously very important to you, so carry on
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i cant see how some people have a problem putting the UK first tbh.
my view is sort the shite out here first THEN maybe help out abroad.

i cant see anyone clamouring to help us?
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clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 08:56 PM
i cant see anyone clamouring to help us?
you're not looking hard enough
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ENUFisENUF
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we are sorting our sh1te out first Clee.
We are all sorting our own countriies' sh1te out before we take up arms and go and fight for another country's sh1te. That's why we have a scottish, ulster and wel;sh defense league, surely??
The point is, we are warriors in our own borders first and foremost. But there shouldn't be anything stopping us sending the odd ammo belt over to fellow warriors in other countries.
This fight is global. It's the only fight we, the west, will ever fight that takes prominence over international rivalries. We fight for Australia, America, Italy, Belgium, France, Germany, Holland etc etc etc ie ANYONE who fights what we fight in order to maintain western civilisation.
For fcuk's sake, if we can have a Pompey and a Scummer division walking side by side we can have anything.

The point is, petty international rivalries (including WW2) are put aside to combat a greater evil. Among the people we thought were enemies we will find friends who fight our fight.

“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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I'm a patriot and of course I support England, but this Jihad is not just about England, it's an attack on all of western civilisation, EDL flew the American flag along side ours in New York, we're are joining forces with many different groups right across Europe, we have flown the Canadian flag at one of our demos and if I remember right a French flag.

It's a sign that we are inclusive, that we are not Racist or Nazis, we may have a bad image here but it has done our world wide reputation a power of good, hence the Tea Party for example. Who may back us.

90% of flags flown at our demos have been and still are the Jack and St George.

I see no problem in flying the flags of countries and groups that are fighting jihad.

Arthur.
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lan-astaslem
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VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 08:11 PM
I have a personal problem supporting a nation which was forged on the cold blooded murder of British servicemen by terrorists. Do you have a problem with that?
I am not anti-Israel, I am not pro-Israel. I will not however sit by and let British victims of terrorist attacks, which are now celebrated in Israel, be forgotten. If my view is contrary or damaging to the EDL, I have no problems in terminating my association, as I would never, and refuse to deny the sacrifice made by British servicemen because it would suit an argument.
On the other thread you said something along the same lines but the thread was locked while you was playing football, before you had a chance to reply to my post.

Quote:
 
Do you not think British attitudes might've been tempered by a difficult guerilla war being fought by Jewish terror groups in a region where at the time they were a minority, as well as the KDH attack there were many atrocities carried out against British forces, including the hanging of British squaddies with piano wire.
Atrocities committed against British troops by terrorists have in recent times been celebrated in Israel.


The Jews where attacking military targets, so how can that be terrorism.

The KDH was only a hotel in name, Headquarters of the British Forces in Palestine and Transjordan.

From the sources I have read there is no mention that Sergeant Clifford Martin and Sergeant Mervyn Paice where hung by piano wires. Irgun kidnapped and threatened to kill them if the death sentences passed on Irgun militants arrested by the British authorities on charges of terrorism were carried out. When the executions were carried out, the Irgun murdered its hostages and hung their booby-trapped bodies in a eucalyptus grove near Netanya. This act was widely condemned in both Palestine and the United Kingdom. Soon after hearing of the deaths, British troops and policemen "went on the rampage" in Tel Aviv, killing five Jews and injuring others. The murders also sparked off antisemitic rioting in some British cities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sergeants_affair

The British hung at least seven Jews in cold blood

These two soldiers, did not sacrifice themselves for England, they where sacrificed by the English government in a war they should not have been in.

On December 13, 1946 the Irgun robbed a bank in Jaffa. Three of the perpetrators - Benjamin Nes, Eliezer Sudit and seventeen years old Benjamin Kimkhi - were caught and tried a few days later. Nes and Sudit were convicted of robbery and illegal possession of firearms and were given long sentences, while Kimkhi was also convicted of discharging a firearm with intent to endanger life. He refused to recognize the British courts jurisdiction and was sentenced to an eighteen year imprisonment and eighteen lashes. Twelve lashes was also the punishment given to another Irgun member, Aharon Katz, for possession of propaganda material.

Upon notification about the punishment, the Irgun headquarters convened and decided that such a "humiliating" punishment was not to be tolerated. It published a warning, in Hebrew and English, to the British authorities not to carry out the flogging, threatening to do the same to British officers.
On Saturday, December 28, Kimkhi was lashed eighteen times.

On Sunday night an armed Irgun unit broke into a hotel in Netanya and ordered major E. Brett to come along. He was led to a eucalyptus grove were he was given his "sentence" of eighteen lashes. He returned to the hotel in his underwear.

In Rishon Lezion a sergeant was captured and flogged in the street. Two other sergeants were kidnapped in Tel Aviv and flogged in a park, while two others were caught in the northern part of the city and suffered eighteen lashes as well.

From 22:00 to 1:00 army cars drove around the streets of Tel Aviv and ordered the soldiers of the 6th Airborne Division to return to their homes. From Lod to Netanya, loudspeakers ordered the soldiers to return to their camps.

In the Kfar Sava area, roadblocks were set and a car transporting five armed Irgun men (carrying a whip) was caught. One of them, Avraham Mizrahi, was killed when fire was opened at the car, while three other - Eliezer Kashani, Mordechai Elkahi and Yehiel Drezner - would be executed


“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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lan-astaslem
Oct 18 2010, 09:22 PM
On the other thread you said something along the same lines but the thread was locked while you was playing football, before you had a chance to reply to my post.

The Jews where attacking military targets, so how can that be terrorism.

If you remind me what the closed thread was about/what I was commenting on I will reply by all means.

Do you count the British civilians they targetted as military targets, lets not forget they included policemen and civilian diplomats. They also toured one target after they had bombed the living daylights out of it killing unarmed and wounded survivors. Captured British servicemen were also executed, hung from the orange groves of Haifa (wasn't it?), by piano wire. Of course in your view all acceptable?
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VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 08:55 PM
That's it, try and justify it by using Churchill..... I am sure he wouldn't have used the plight of young girls to prove a point on an Internet forum, but it's obviously very important to you, so carry on
Making light? I pretended not to care about what happens outside of my immediate back yard unless it directly affected me in order to prove a point. Amazingly, some people do actually think this way. Even more amazingly, is it went straight over your head.

You are trying to make it sound as though I was telling crude jokes about Charlene Downes or something. Clutching at strawmen methinks?
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lan-astaslem
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VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 09:28 PM
by piano wire.


A link to support this anti-semetic myth




That morning, eighteen days after the kidnapping, the Irgun chief of staff, Haim Landau, ordered Assaf to hang the hostages. Initially Assaf and Paglin looked for a suitable grove, but given the large military and police presence they decided to kill the hostages at the plant itself. Since the hangings were meant as a 'lesson for all to see', they still wanted to hang the bodies in public. That was so clear that the mayor of Tel Aviv, Yisrael Rokah, feared Irgun would hang them in the city’s main square, while in Netanya it was feared that they would be hanged on local lamp posts. Haganah increased its patrols around the city centres, which made the transfers even more difficult.
In the afternoon Paglin and four other men arrived at the factory. At around 18:00 Paice and Martin were individually taken out, hooded, tied by the wrists and ankles, stood on a chair, had a noose placed around their necks and then, by the kicking away of the chair, hanged.

Good night
Edited by lan-astaslem, Oct 18 2010, 09:51 PM.
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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lan-astaslem
Oct 18 2010, 09:48 PM
VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 09:28 PM
by piano wire.

A link to support this anti-semetic myth

That morning, eighteen days after the kidnapping, the Irgun chief of staff, Haim Landau, ordered Assaf to hang the hostages. Initially Assaf and Paglin looked for a suitable grove, but given the large military and police presence they decided to kill the hostages at the plant itself. Since the hangings were meant as a 'lesson for all to see', they still wanted to hang the bodies in public. That was so clear that the mayor of Tel Aviv, Yisrael Rokah, feared Irgun would hang them in the city’s main square, while in Netanya it was feared that they would be hanged on local lamp posts. Haganah increased its patrols around the city centres, which made the transfers even more difficult.
In the afternoon Paglin and four other men arrived at the factory. At around 18:00 Paice and Martin were individually taken out, hooded, tied by the wrists and ankles, stood on a chair, had a noose placed around their necks and then, by the kicking away of the chair, hanged.

Good night
You off now, I have just got the thread from the other day. All I can see is me asking HS to provide evidence of the right-wing infiltration? And how is pointing out that Jewish terrorists killed British servicemen in the terrorist war they waged in British Mandate Palestine anti-semitic?

EDIT* Think I have found what you mean, your argumen t that Irgun and the Stern Gang weeren't linked is false. It is like saying the Real IRA have no links to PIRA
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lan-astaslem
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Okay you are narked about 2 british soldiers be being hung, I am narked that it could have been avoided, I am narked that 7 jews where hung, I am narked that the British sided with the muslims.

“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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lan-astaslem
Oct 18 2010, 10:16 PM
Okay you are narked about 2 british soldiers be being hung, I am narked that it could have been avoided, I am narked that 7 jews where hung, I am narked that the British sided with the muslims.

More than two British soldiers (and civilians) were murdered by terrorists from Irgun and the Stern Gang mate.
How do you come to the conclusion that the British sided with the Muslims? The British squaddies were just out there doing their duty, so you are more narked about Israeli issues than you are about the deaths of British people?
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lan-astaslem
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VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 09:51 PM
lan-astaslem
Oct 18 2010, 09:48 PM
VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 09:28 PM
by piano wire.

A link to support this anti-semetic myth

That morning, eighteen days after the kidnapping, the Irgun chief of staff, Haim Landau, ordered Assaf to hang the hostages. Initially Assaf and Paglin looked for a suitable grove, but given the large military and police presence they decided to kill the hostages at the plant itself. Since the hangings were meant as a 'lesson for all to see', they still wanted to hang the bodies in public. That was so clear that the mayor of Tel Aviv, Yisrael Rokah, feared Irgun would hang them in the city’s main square, while in Netanya it was feared that they would be hanged on local lamp posts. Haganah increased its patrols around the city centres, which made the transfers even more difficult.
In the afternoon Paglin and four other men arrived at the factory. At around 18:00 Paice and Martin were individually taken out, hooded, tied by the wrists and ankles, stood on a chair, had a noose placed around their necks and then, by the kicking away of the chair, hanged.

Good night
You off now, I have just got the thread from the other day. All I can see is me asking HS to provide evidence of the right-wing infiltration? And how is pointing out that Jewish terrorists killed British servicemen in the terrorist war they waged in British Mandate Palestine anti-semitic?

EDIT* Think I have found what you mean, your argumen t that Irgun and the Stern Gang weeren't linked is false. It is like saying the Real IRA have no links to PIRA
They split in 1940 Irgun fought with the British, the Stern Gang sided the the germans. Most of the Jews where on our side and many died while serving in the British army, including a founder of Irgun. Where as the Arabs sided with Germany. When the war was over Britain stabbed the Jews in the back and sided with the arabs.
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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brianoflondon
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As usual the troops on the ground were pawns in the hands of their masters:

1939 Neville Chamberlain remarked "If we must offend one side, let us offend the Jews rather than the Arabs." - 25. Cabinet Committee Minutes: Cabinet Papers 24/285, April 20, 1939. Cited in Gilbert, Exile, p. 226; also see correspondence to Winston Churchill reporting of British officials who were "strongly anti-Semite" in Bucharest and Prague, despite the "persecution" of Jews there. Cited in Gilbert, Exile, p. 226.

It's pretty clear they sided with the Arabs when not letting a few million Jews flee the death camps.[R4E]Better source for quote[/R4E]
Edited by brianoflondon, Oct 18 2010, 10:33 PM.
Brian of London has been actively occupying a very small slice of hideously over-occupied Tel Aviv since early 2009.


Islam is a giant bungee cord tying it's adherents to the 7th century.
They can pull themselves almost to the twenty first century but eventually the cord tightens and flings them back.
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lan-astaslem
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brianoflondon
Oct 18 2010, 10:29 PM
It's pretty clear they sided with the Arabs when not letting a few million Jews flee the death camps.
Exodus




The Evian Conference - Hitler's Green Light for Genocide

http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/evian/evian.html

[R4E]Better source for quote[/R4E]
Edited by lan-astaslem, Oct 18 2010, 10:48 PM.
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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lan-astaslem
Oct 18 2010, 10:27 PM
VillaLoyal
Oct 18 2010, 09:51 PM
lan-astaslem
Oct 18 2010, 09:48 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You off now, I have just got the thread from the other day. All I can see is me asking HS to provide evidence of the right-wing infiltration? And how is pointing out that Jewish terrorists killed British servicemen in the terrorist war they waged in British Mandate Palestine anti-semitic?

EDIT* Think I have found what you mean, your argumen t that Irgun and the Stern Gang weeren't linked is false. It is like saying the Real IRA have no links to PIRA
They split in 1940 Irgun fought with the British, the Stern Gang sided the the germans. Most of the Jews where on our side and many died while serving in the British army, including a founder of Irgun. Where as the Arabs sided with Germany. When the war was over Britain stabbed the Jews in the back and sided with the arabs.
Some Irgun joined the allies yes The New Zionist Movement supported the British. That only lasted till 1943 though didn't it, as I am sure you must know. In 1944 before the war was won, all Jewish terror groups announced they would target British installations etc In fact the first attack was February 1944, over a year before the war finished and 5 months before D-Day. They then proceeded to attack military targets such as diplomats and civilians
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brianoflondon
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I've asked this before but I'm still curious Villa, getting away from the detail: British servicemen and even civilians were killed all over the world, and all through a number of centuries by local insurrections, hell I can even say terrorists. Why are those killed in Israel by Jews so interesting to you above and beyond all others? I'm really not trying to make light of any of these deaths, I'm just really curious.
Brian of London has been actively occupying a very small slice of hideously over-occupied Tel Aviv since early 2009.


Islam is a giant bungee cord tying it's adherents to the 7th century.
They can pull themselves almost to the twenty first century but eventually the cord tightens and flings them back.
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Look guys, does it actually matter now, we are all faced with a common enemy and we are to put it in real terms, at war and we should cast aside the past, we have had problems and war with many countries in our existence, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Holland, America, the list is endless, and what was done is surely water under the bridge.
We face the biggest battle that we have ever faced, aided and abetted by even our own people, traitors. So lets not turn on those who would support us, be they Jews, Germans or who ever. The past cannot be undone but the future can.

Arthur.
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brianoflondon
Oct 18 2010, 10:49 PM
I've asked this before but I'm still curious Villa, getting away from the detail: British servicemen and even civilians were killed all over the world, and all through a number of centuries by local insurrections, hell I can even say terrorists. Why are those killed in Israel by Jews so interesting to you above and beyond all others? I'm really not trying to make light of any of these deaths, I'm just really curious.
I know what you'd like me to say Bri, it's because I'm a card carrying member of the National Socialist Party and sitting here in full SS dress uniform.
But alas it is because it is mentioned so often. People give personal opinions which I add to. I leave some threads but on some threads the Israeli lobby is so vehement, that as an Englishman I can't help myself. If there are any whirling dervish or mau-mau's threads on here I would be on them like a cheetah, but alas it's all Israel, Israel, Israel
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Honestly Villa I don't think that, please don't put words like that in my mouth! I'm really not all that bothered and I really know you're not a Nazi and I know we have more in common cause than not because of the common enemy we face. I'm off to bed. Lets just let this thread die shall we?
Brian of London has been actively occupying a very small slice of hideously over-occupied Tel Aviv since early 2009.


Islam is a giant bungee cord tying it's adherents to the 7th century.
They can pull themselves almost to the twenty first century but eventually the cord tightens and flings them back.
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nemisis123456
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clee1970
Oct 18 2010, 10:56 AM
nemisis123456
Oct 18 2010, 12:43 AM
uk4ever
Oct 17 2010, 10:04 PM
EDL is a broad movement but we look polarised when someone waves an isreali flag.

it should be about England.

but i don't want the settlers here taking over and forcing religious extremism on us.
Your talking out your arse mate.

Israeli settlers arnt forcing ANYTHING on the EDL. Especially not any form of "religious extremism"

We don't look polarised when we wave an Israeli flag why would we be?

We fully support Israel's right to exist and Israel's right to defend itself.

Learn some history before you puke any more crap on this page eh?

theres a few REALLY good lads round here been put off by the israeli flags at demos.
their blood runs red white and blue.
but their arguement is-
if theyre putting their jobs on the line by coming to demos and getting photographed by left wing filth they want to know its for standing up for great britain NOT israel.
i know first hand israeli flags put some good people off.

im still finding it hard to get me head round searchlights stance on the EDL when gables sons in the israeli army as well?
wtf are they goin to do on sunday in london?
gable must be sat there gibbering wondering wtf is going on.
Clee mate let me set out my stall clearly for you and everyone else involved in the Anti Israel connection with EDL.

Why should people be put off an Israeli flag at our demos?

I ask this because surely then you have a problem with any other flag flown at an EDL demo? That is of course by using the same train of thought/reasoning (but please correct me if you think i am wrong).

My blood runs Red, White and Blue. I fcuking love my country, i support our military through thick and thin, my MAIN concern is MY COUNTRY, first and foremost, always has been always will be.

Therefore should i ignore all the other Islamist problems throughout the world?

Of course not, rather than be so narrow minded or blinkered by the problems we face here from the scourge of Islamism, from education, its reasonable to come to the conclusion that other countries also have the problems we face, problems faced in Europe, problems faced in America, problems faced in the Middle East.

We are not only fighting a National war against Jihad we are facing a much larger problem, a GLOBAL Jihad as set out in the "fundamental" tenets of Islamic doctrine.

What happens in Europe will affect us, what happens in America will affect us, like it or not what happens in the Middle East will affect us. Whether that be through politics, law, war, culture or religion disguised as as politics (and vice versa), economics etc etc etc.....

We will be effected, it takes strong politicians to break that pc mould, none of whom reside here in the UK (much is the pity). The irony is that there is a strong politician, his name is Geert, hes not English, hes not British, we support his right to freedom of speech, we support his right to tackle the growing Islamist problem in the Netherlands, we also support his right to raise the same issues in Europe, America, Israel and the rest of the world for that matter.

Should we not support Geert either?

Again im only citing the same train of thought/logic in your argumentation.

The point is people ARE standing up for Britain, that includes Britains Jewish community, people who have stood up for the EDL when others dare not do so. The reality is that we do have Jewish support and im proud that they can come to our demos and stand shoulder to shoulder with us. After all arnt we the nasty Nazis the media like to portray us as?

Surely them putting their necks on the line and stepping up to the plate negates some of the crap thrown in our general direction?

I say fair play to them, and if they want to highlight the problems they continue to face from "PROSCIRBED TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS" like Hamas and Hezbollah, again i say fair play to em. We have their supporters marching in MY capital city, and that frankly "offends" me.

If any country in the world should know what its like dealing with militant Islam and Islamic nations that surround them them Israel is a prime example. Thank fcuk its not us in the same position eh?

Israel is the ONLY democracy in the Middle East, now thats front line sh1t mate! That Democracy vs Theocracy and dictatorships. This aint about squaring up to some divvy ob or a scruffy UAF twat or even the odd Jihadi nutjob over here. This is full scale war against militant Islam in a region where Jews are a minority. Where Jews are considered to be "apes and pigs" and less than human.

Oh how Hitler admired the spirit of the Arabs, no wonder he utilised their hatred for his own ends, even though he still thought Arabs were inferior he knew how to tap into that hatred and utilise it. That Nazi propaganda still resonates throughout the Middle East. Thats why Hitler is still venerated in certain Muslim communities, thats why certain Muslims associate with National Sociallists for that common cause.

Iv said it before and ill say it again......

Opposite sides of the same coin!

Nazi'ism/Islamofascism same sh1t different smell!

If people are "offended" by an Israeli flag then my advice to them is dont look at it! If people cant understand that we have Jewish support fighting FOR British democracy then we are at a loss. Jews have so much more to loose from their association with us rather than the other way round.

As for Gabel well who cares about him?

So what if his son served in the Israeli military, if he was born in Israel then he would have to serve at some point in the military, did you not know that it was originally the left who supported and defended the Jews once upon a time?

Now they too have become fascist like in the Anti Semitic sense of the definition. Oh the irony!

Jews have a lefty problem just as much as we do believe it or not, and those "lefty" Jews who came here to interview the JDL and question their support for the EDL were given a short sharp lesson in taking us for mugs. I know that those people "tried" to stitch us up, but because of our Hebrew speaking defenders of Great Britain they were forced to report their findings in full as their hatchet job was exposed by those who could read and write Hebrew. Cowardice is something id never associate with any Jew who fights our corner.

So in short i will fully support Israels right to exist, i will fully support Israels right to defend itself from a Pan-Arab/Pan-Islamist supremacist ideology, an ideology that has been exported over here, an ideology that our Jewish friends are fighting "for us" and "with us".

Lets not mince our words here bud.

The EDL supports Israels right to exist, the EDL support Israels right to defend itself. The EDL supports ANY Jew who will stand shoulder to shoulder with us because we are an "inclusive" movement.

And if Jews want to fly their flag then i say let them, because they are fighting with us, not against us.


Anyway rant over hope that makes some kind of sense its bloody late and im bolloxed.







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lan-astaslem
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After the last couple of posts I have no mire to say here Thanx Brian/nenisis

Except one thing that was mentioned above

Keighley

Is there still a problem in Keighley
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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kaimana1
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WELL SAID nemesis! :)
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uk4ever
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The fact that there's an argument/discussion about this subject proves that it's divisive to support a zionist regime at an EDL rally.

... and anyone can support the EDL, but don't push other agenda's.

The broad EDL movement will stop being so broad when it offers support to another movement which not everyone supports.

I feel embarrassed by an isreali flag at an EDL rally simply because i personally (that's right brian -personaly- do you need me to explain that word for you?) don't support them.

It seems others feel this way and maybe we can all see that it will keep people away. We need numbers, not support from the zionists or the fcukin tea party. All there business/corperate money will leave an unmovable stain on us.

I thought this was a grass roots peoples movement. Now it's a political tool which other regimes will use to further there own agenda.

keep it about England
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uk4ever
Oct 19 2010, 12:20 PM
keep it about England
It's not just about England though, Jihadism is a world wide problem and the enemy of my enemy is my friend, for now.

I realise some here can't abide Israel or its past, however that's no reason not to acknowledge that they are in the front line when it comes to fighting Jihadism. At the moment all the EDL is doing is fighting off the infiltration of a fith column of Jihadists in the UK, trying to nip a problem in the bud so to speak. If or when the Islamic's take over a city and start lobbing missiles over the boundaries at us, then and only then will we be on the front line.
Our cause is just and we will prevail, hopefully before we become another Israel.
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”

George Orwell
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