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ob filming
Topic Started: Sep 29 2010, 10:20 PM (557 Views)
ybr125
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from wot ive erd on here the ob are filming people in local pubs at demos.. is this ther way of building a picture of whos who and uesing facial recognition sofwere to identyfie people they can run mug shots thru the d v l a and passport control???? then wen the war starts theil no who to look for?? or is it just me being paranoid ...i no crap speller lol
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Wigone
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You know you probably aren't far wrong. They already have lsits of many people to intimidate. The power they ahve now is immense, they don't have any pride in their country.
As long as it's not in their back yard they aren't bovvered about Islam.....but one day they may well be.
I you know what I think that the government secretley is too.
They don't like it up 'em.
Don't tell them your name Pike.
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English Angel
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I also think your not far wrong. I think they're building a database like you say. Maybe its a simple 'know thine enemy' kind of thing but maybe it does have more sinister implications like preventing known attendees from travelling/confiscating passports etc etc and just generally having your details on the PNC.

I've long thought its becoming more and more of a big brother police state. Just look at the speed cameras. When they couldnt sell them to us as speed cameras they changed tack and referred to them as 'safety' cameras. That still doesnt work as they have been actually proved to be the cause accidents in certain instances! and lets face it, we all know the real reason they have to have them, coz if they were really concerned about speed all cars would have a limiter fitted by law. No, theyre not really concerned about speed imo, the real purpose is to top up the coffers so they can afford the police pensions.

Another scandal not to get me started on...
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They have files on everyone who they consider 'domestic extremists'. Was discussing this at the weekend, there was an old fella in his 80s, who followed the anti-fascist and left-wing demos. He was harmless and attended with his granddaughter, just to paint the protesters as it was his hobby. One day a passing copper at a demo referred to him by name, he was puzzled how he knew his name, and put in a freedom of information act request as to what infcormation they held on him. He found out they had a massive file, reports of what demos he had attended, what he was wearing etc.
They have been practicing their surveillance techniques and controls for years on football fans, people have let them get away with it as 'they're only football thugs'. They also have technology, which doesn't only recognise faces, it also calculates the length of body parts and even if masked can identify people.
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The OB will have info on most people who attend demos. I was stupid enough to give my name and adress to a copper in Bolton so the'll have pictures and info on all of us, Especialy if people have been involved in other illegal activity.

British Police have lads everywhere and may even have 30-40 informants in local division and even the leadership (I'm not pointing fingers, I just know how sneaker the fcukers are!)...
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ybr125
Sep 29 2010, 10:20 PM
from wot ive erd on here the ob are filming people in local pubs at demos..


is this ther way of building a picture of whos who and uesing facial recognition sofwere to identyfie people

they can run mug shots thru the d v l a and passport control???? then wen the war starts theil no who to look for?? or is it just me being paranoid ...i no crap speller lol
In answer to the first line of your post, most definitely yes.

And also yes to the second line.

Not sure about the third, because it's a bit subjective, but certainly a possibility.

Always remember, if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to...



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The coppers with the orange epaulettes are EGT (Evidence Gathering Team) they are dedicated public order teams who follow demonstrations etc to gather evidence on people they consider domestic extremists. EGT's are attached to the National Public Order Intelligence Unit (NPOIU) which was established in 2004,
There is also the Metropolitan Police ‘Special Demonstration Squad’ (SDS). Formed in 1968, the SDS infiltrates legitimate protest movements to ascertain the potential for violence at demonstrations and to provide intelligence to prevent this. Earlier this year a former police officer employed by the squad, which is attached to Special Branch, gave an interview to the Observer newspaper, where he explained how he had infiltrated the anti-fascist movement, between 1993 and 1997... it's quite interesting when you look into it, but also disheartening at times when you realise what the EDL is up against
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Rhys-Wolverhampton
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SpireiteEDL
Sep 29 2010, 10:44 PM
The OB will have info on most people who attend demos. I was stupid enough to give my name and adress to a copper in Bolton so the'll have pictures and info on all of us, Especialy if people have been involved in other illegal activity.

British Police have lads everywhere and may even have 30-40 informants in local division and even the leadership (I'm not pointing fingers, I just know how sneaker the fcukers are!)...
I have been asked my name, address, DOB countless times for different things including at EDL demos (Dudley).
I never give my real name to em if i can avoid it.


As for the OB keeping records on people, thats true, like VillaLoyal said if they consider you a domestic extreamist or anything else the can use to keep a file on you they will.

One way they love getting info out of people (Names, address ect) is Section 60. What i would say is clue up on your rights if you dont know them.
http://www.freewebs.com/knowyoursh1t/

Edit for the link wont work properly because the word sh i t has been censored so replace the 1 to i ;)


Edited by Rhys-Wolverhampton, Sep 29 2010, 11:10 PM.
Rule Britania, Club & Country WWFC

I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, straining upon the start. The games afoot. Follow your spirit and upon this charge cry, God for Harry, England and St George

.N.F.S.E. .G.S.T.Q
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Some information and tips on the law, your rights, and how to react when police have enforced a "Section 60" order on a demonstration or picket.

At some recent demonstrations, police have cordoned off the demonstration, corralling large numbers of people into an increasing confined area before taking their names, addresses and photographs, eventually releasing them one by one. This was done under the obscure Section 60 of the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994 (originally designed to prevent minor football disturbances).

The S60 order is a new police tactic at major demonstrations used effectively to control, subdue and gain personal information about protesters despite having the extraordinarily limited power simply to "Stop and search in anticipation of violence".

Its effectiveness in the past was due to the fact that no-one knew just exactly what powers the police had under S60. As it turns out, they have very few powers.

In the event of an S60 order being issued these are the important things to remember: The police have the power to search you for weapons (and dangerous instruments). They have no other powers under S60. They can only detain you "for as long as necessary to carry out a search".

They have no legal power to force you to give them your name and address. Under no circumstances give it to them: it will be kept on file for seven years. When asked, say "no comment".

They have no legal power to force you to have your photograph taken. Do not allow them to do this. This too will be kept on file for seven years. Keep your head turned away, or put your hand in front of your face.

They have no legal power to ask you to remove any item of clothing in public view, other than that which is concealing your identity. Any facial masking can be confiscated.

If you are asked to remove coats/jumpers etc, refuse outright. They have no legal power to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc. This is an S60 search, for weapons only. If they ask to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc, refuse outright.

If you have a bag they will search that, but again for weapons only. Any other items, documents, potentially incriminating articles are off limits.

Do not allow them to examine any of your personal possessions (cash cards, student cards, diaries, organisers etc). This is not part of S60. Under Article 8 of the UK Human Rights Act 1998 your privacy is assured. Make sure they know this. They can only confiscate weapons and facial masking.

They have the power to use "reasonable force" but ONLY if you do not submit to a search. No other force can be used for any other purpose.

They must tell you their name, number, station they're based at the reason for the search. Ask them for this. Not only will it piss them, off but if they don't provide this information the search will be illegal. Remember: in an S60 situation, you are accused of nothing and you have done nothing wrong. Do not answer any questions, however insignificant or polite. Say "no comment" to everything.

Most of all, don't be scared by them! They know the law, and now so do you. Use it!

Legal advice: Section 60
Contrary to information being circulated, the legal basis of the tactic of police cordoning off demonstrations and forbidding large numbers of people to leave from inside the cordon - as used at J18, N30 and Mayday2K - is NOT s60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.

Police, indeed anyone, can use reasonable force to detain people to prevent a breach of the peace where they fear one is imminent. This was the basis of the effective mass imprisonment at previous demonstrations. It is not an arrest.

The powers in s60 have been used to search people individually as they are being released from the cordon and this is where the confusion stems from.

S60 can be used where a senior cop reasonably suspects there will be incidents of serious violence or that people are carrying dangerous weapons or offensive weapons in a locality (inserted by s8 Knives Act 1997).

1. Once police have released you from the cordoned area, they can then only detain you "for as long as necessary to carry out a search". While in the cordoned area they can detain you as long as they have reasonable (i.e. objectively justifiable) grounds that this is necessary to prevent a breach of the peace.

2. While performing a search they can ask you to remove outer clothing, such as coats and jumpers in public. In addition, s60(4A) - inserted by s25 CDA 1998 - allows the police to force you to remove anything they reasonably suspect you are wearing wholly or mainly to conceal your identity. There is nothing to stop you putting something else on after you have taken off a mask or had it confiscated.

3. The s60 search is for "offensive weapons or dangerous instruments". This is not limited to large things such as samurai swords and stun guns (taking examples from certain Sunday papers) but can include razor blades. They can search inside wallets, purses, small pockets for these.

4. They can search personal possessions for dangerous instruments that might be hidded inside and they can also seize prohibited articles such as drugs. While it is true that Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) contains a qualified right of respect for your private life, and that under s6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 public authorities such as the police will be acting unlawfully if they breach any right in the ECHR, it is wrong to see this as doing something as absolute as assuring your privacy.

Before police start searching through personal possessions, e.g. address books, cards in wallet, warn them politely that if they do start trying to read what's in your address book or on the cards in your wallet rather than performing a cursory search, i.e. seeing if razor blades fall out onto the ground from your address book, they will be acting outside their powers and you will stop them.

8. Before conducting the search, an officer must take reasonable steps to communicate their name, number, station, etc. They also have to provide you with a written record of the search, which you should ask for. If they can't provide one straight away they must tell you which police station you can get it from. Police dislike form filling and paperwork particularly when it leaves less time to bash anti-capitalists and then fit them up.

9. Under the Data Protection Act, anyone holding personal data relating to other people (this includes video and photographic footage) has to provide copies to those people for £10, as demonstrated by Mark Thomas on C4. If substantial numbers of people on the Mayday demonstration exercise this right, the police will have to spend their resources on finding footage with those individuals on, in order to collate it and send it to them, rather than gathering intelligence and preparing for arrests.

Taken from the UHC Collective website
Edited by libcom.org, last reviewed 2006
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Wigone
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Just read that link and this put the crap up me
Terrorism Act 2000

While this has only been used so far to ban 21 groups, there are enough powers in this law to create a full-on police state. While journalists and anyone connected to those groups in particular should take legal advice, anyone at the Mayday demonstration could be arrested under the Terrorism Act even if they have not committed an offence. You can be detained for _seven_ days and held incommunicado for the first 48 hours. See the forthcoming bust card for more info: you ignore this law at your peril.
They don't like it up 'em.
Don't tell them your name Pike.
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When you are being issued with a Section 60, remember they are only searching you to ensure you have no weapons, they have no rights to demand your name or film you. By doing both they are contravening Article 8 of the European Human Rights Act, which states your privacy as an individual is assured. They break the Human Rights Act regularly, but get away with it as it is mainly white, working-class people they use it against and we aren't considered human anymore

EDIT* @ Andy, think controlling demonstrations comes under Section 14 and Section 27 more than Section 60
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The info on ob powers is seriously good info as long as it's kept up to date. Can this be pinned or bumped prior to demos please?

As for the topic: Do ob purposely concentrate people into pubs etc. prior to the demo and then let them out under control so they can all be videod/photographed? Is it a regular tactic?
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ybr125
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good info thanks..
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After each demo people should put in a freedom of info request to the local OB.
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Sir-Shane
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I went to the flash demo in Oldham and when we went to one of the pubs there was a guy who was stood at the bar so, as you do, I let him get served before me cos he was there first. When we all got stopped though and issued with section 60 I recognised the same guy. It turns out he OB. He was walking round with a camcorder taking everyones details. I even said to him that I'd seen him in the pub up the road and he just smiled at me.
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Christine Patriot
Sep 29 2010, 11:25 PM
The info on ob powers is seriously good info as long as it's kept up to date. Can this be pinned or bumped prior to demos please?

As for the topic: Do ob purposely concentrate people into pubs etc. prior to the demo and then let them out under control so they can all be videod/photographed? Is it a regular tactic?
Local police will be issued with target sheets before any demo, people who they should concentrate on, as well as filming generally. The EGT's will know their targets already, pretty much in the same way the EDL are now identifying red photographers, through regular contact.
In response to your question, I don't think we can blame the police for forcing people into public houses, unfortunately, but it does help as it groups up people and they will be filmed as they are leaving
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VillaLoyal
Sep 29 2010, 11:50 PM
...I don't think we can blame the police for forcing people into public houses, unfortunately, but it does help as it groups up people and they will be filmed as they are leaving

Thanks, but to clarify my point a little re 'being forced into pubs':

What I'm trying to suggest is not that ob force people into pubs because it just happens to be a convenient way to of controling people. Rather, that it is a deliberate tactic to force demonstrators into confined spaces that have a limited amount of exits so that the slow release of demonstrators through limited exits becomes the best and most efficient way of building the photographic, video and information databases? Or, their is no other purpose in this tactic other than the above.
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.... and being in a pub for a while = you drink. More chance of getting stroppy when your photo is taken. ;)
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Merry Merry
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Pubs are private property. Don't they need a warrent or writ to enter take evidence like that? At least permission from the proprietor? And on what basis?
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Disenfranchised Briton
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Christine Patriot
Sep 29 2010, 11:25 PM
The info on ob powers is seriously good info as long as it's kept up to date. Can this be pinned or bumped prior to demos please?

As for the topic: Do ob purposely concentrate people into pubs etc. prior to the demo and then let them out under control so they can all be videod/photographed? Is it a regular tactic?
Yes. Only we seem to go willingly because it's a pub. I think we even thought that it ws the OB being considerate at first.
I've argued against it because the media use it against us all the time, they equate going to the pub with us being drunk, angry, aggressive, looking for a fight and so on.
Now of course if we met in a wine bar....
Gin & Tonic Division
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656434
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Wigone
Sep 29 2010, 10:34 PM
As long as it's not in their back yard they aren't bovvered about Islam.
Yeah most EDL are working class because it's our areas muslims have ethnically cleansed us out of. The bourgoise middle class who like to think only working class people are EDL have got it coming. I hate the 'I'm all right jack' crowd, they are a waste of space.
Edited by 656434, Sep 30 2010, 12:36 PM.
For every English soldier fighting in Afghanistan. For every English child being trafficked as a sex slave around her own country by muslim men.
"We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem." - LtGen Lewis 'Chesty' Puller
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NEVER TRUST POLICE.
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ill go with buxton on that one.
know nothing about nothing and nothing about that whatever it is.
also stick to forum names then you know no ones real name that you dont really need to know so cant be drawn into anythin by the ob.

btw one at weekend asked me if i was from milton keynes so i just said yeah,
every ones a winner lol.
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lethal_ghost
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http://www.inbrief.co.uk/police-powers.htm

great site for finding out about the law
Criminal Justice and public order Act 1994

Section 60 of this Act gives a senior police officer the power to give written authorisation to police officers to stop and search people and vehicles within a certain area, where the senior police officer believes serious violence may occur. This area may be subject to stop and searches for a period of 24 hours. This may be extended for another 30hours. The police may stop and search any pedestrian or vehicles for offensive and dangerous weapons.



Read more: http://www.inbrief.co.uk/police-powers.htm#ixzz110xEAPHZ
All police officers have an uninterrupted power to ask members of the public questions which they feel may deter and prevent crime or detect crime. No member of the public is under any obligation to answer these questions, whether on the street or in the police station, unless they have been lawfully detained.

A problem may arise surrounding how far a police office can go in order to detain a person without arresting them. The courts have decided that a police officer may touch a person in order to gain their attention, such as tap their shoulder, but they cannot stop them from moving away unless they are arresting that person.



Edited by lethal_ghost, Sep 30 2010, 01:16 PM.
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Death is not the worst that can happen to men. Plato
No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. Friedrich Nietzsche
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snidey
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I have no objection to them filming me whatsoever.
I don't have a passport - i've not sorted out my driving licence from the paper one , i have no photo id, i've never been in trouble with the law one bit

try and recognise me now.
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Chaddylad02
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they dont need camcorders any more - a friend of mine works in this 'field'. the ob have access to anything digital - cash machine withdrawls, phone bills, street cctv etc... basically they can pinpoint ur exact whereabouts at anytime! everything you do is recorded on a pc somewhere - quite scary

Chaddy

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