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Learn about Islam; HIJRAH / HIZRAH is that ther Achilles heal?
Topic Started: Sep 23 2010, 03:09 PM (195 Views)
albionuk
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Or perhaps more precisely one of their achilles heals?

I believe that the Qu’ran and the rest of Islamic text will be the ultimate downfall of Islam. Why, because if your study Islam it soon becomes clear that it is non-sensical. The vast majority of Muslims haven’t studied Islam (as I haven’t ‘studied’ Christianity). They have been spoon fed a superfical glossary of the nice bits. I believe a worthwhile strategy to get Muslims to study Islam in oder that thye might discover this for themselves. One of the tools I use to shake them up is hijrah (sometimes spelt hizrah)

The Qu’ran and Hadith teach that it is a sin for Muslims to live in non Muslim land and that unless they are physically incapable they must migrate (hijrah) to Muslim land. I believe that many of those whom you might classify as radical Muslims living in the UK are ‘radicals’ because they are deeply troubled by the fact that they know they should migrate (hijrah) and so they try compensate and appease God but being more extreme in other areas.

The Qu’ran states:

Qur'an verse 4:97 . . They (angels) say: "Was not the earth of Allâh spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?" Such men will find their abode in Hell!

I would suggest that Muslims who fail to migrate (hijrah) are hypocrites and Allah decrees that all hypocrites will burn in hell

Quran verse 9:68 - . . . Allah promiseth the hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers fire of hell for their abode. It will suffice them. Allah curseth them, and theirs is lasting torment.

See . . . http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/34687/migration

See . . . . .http://www.hijra.net/forum/
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Thanks for this.
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marquis du mont st michel
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Thanks I am discorsing with Ginger Dawd on his website and trying to get him to leave his friends or leave England. win win either way
-Though a host should encamp against me, My heart shall not fear: Though war should rise against me, Even then will I be confident.

MSM
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I've been saying this for some time too. We need to let them know that they are failed muslims for living here. Real muslims would leave and go to an islamic state.

Of course, we could help them along by banning halal meat, burkas, madrassahs, etc. Prevent the construction of all new mosques, or the maintenance of existing mosques, just as they do with churches in islamic states.
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marquis du mont st michel
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Bon chance....we will need it
Marquis du mont st michel Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

September 23, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Yes I am Catholic. I dont think too much of the inquisition. Really it had nothing to do with me. Years before my time. I guess you could have asked the Pope in a gesture of interfaith dialog when he was there. He has the resources to discourse with you intellegently on the topic.

Now in the spirit of interfaith dialog please answer a question that the lads have been asking lately.

Riddle me this Batman
Why if it is not tolerated in the quran do muslims choose to live in the dar al Harb when your “book” clearly states that if you have the means to emmigrate back to dar al Islam you should do so?

Is this called the Hijrah?

The Qu’ran and Hadith teach that it is a sin for Muslims to live in non Muslim land and that unless they are physically incapable they must migrate (hijrah) to Muslim land. I believe that many of those whom you might classify as radical Muslims living in the UK are ‘radicals’ because they are deeply troubled by the fact that they know they should migrate (hijrah) and so they try compensate and appease God but being more extreme in other areas.

The Qu’ran states:

Qur’an verse 4:97 . . They (angels) say: “Was not the earth of Allâh spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?” Such men will find their abode in Hell!

I would suggest that Muslims who fail to migrate (hijrah) are hypocrites and Allah decrees that all hypocrites will burn in hell

Quran verse 9:68 – . . . Allah promiseth the hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers fire of hell for their abode. It will suffice them. Allah curseth them, and theirs is lasting torment.

See . . . http://anonym.to?http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/34687/migration

See . . . . .http://www.hijra.net/forum/

Is this not true?

Marquis

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Wonder what the Ginger Mullah will say to this?
Edited by marquis du mont st michel, Sep 23 2010, 04:14 PM.
-Though a host should encamp against me, My heart shall not fear: Though war should rise against me, Even then will I be confident.

MSM
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albionuk
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See also these links where Muslim scholars confirm that Muslims must migrate to a Muslim country.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/13363

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/70256


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albionuk
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"He who joins the polytheists and lives with them then he is like them” Al-Musnad", Vol.4/99, Abu Dawud, Kitab al-Jihad, Vol.3/7, Hadith 2479, and ad-Darami, Kitab as-Siyyar, Vol.2/239. Albani classifies it as Sahih. See: "Sahih al-Ja'mi' as-Sagheer", Vol.6/186, Hadith 7346.

Al-Hassan Ibn Salih said: "whoever remains in the land of the enemy (kufar), will be treated like the disbelievers, so long as he was able to join the Muslims but did not do it. Al-Jasaas, "Ahkam al-Qur'an", Vol.3/216.

“I disavow myself of every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Hadeeth classed as sahih by al-Albaani in al-Irwa’, 1207
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roger_bates
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Thanks albionuk. I have also used this islam aq source to argue with muslims, great to watch them squirm when you use an islamic source. The usual answer is that the muslim countries are corrupt and not true muslim countries
Visit my website - How to be Politically Correct www.makemepc.com
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albionuk
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The www.islam-qa.com have deleted all references to hijrah migration! There are a few sites where questions are sumitted and answered but many of them are rubbished by Musilms for one reason or another; answers given on this site have always been accepted as right. At some point quite recently they have deleted all the questions and answers from the site that related to hijrah migration. They must have been pressured to remove them after I and people like me kept sticking it to them that they are hypocrits. I believe (as I stated here some time back) that the hijrah verse (4:97) coupled with the hypocrisy verse (9:68) are gold dust. They should be on every banner and every leaflet on every demo and they should be distributed to airports to all arriving and departing Muslims. Keep sticking it to them and Muslims that don’t know about the hijrah requirement will pass on the difficult question to the ummah.

See below three links to these Q and A’s that no longer go anywhere (deleted). I don’t have the script that was given form answer 34687 and 11793 but I do for 14235 which you can read below to get an idea of what they have deleted and ask yourself WHY did they do that? (I’d like to hope that us keyboard warriors had some part to play in that).

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/34687/migration

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/11793/enemy

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/14235


Answer 14235
Praise be to Allaah.
In order to answer this question, we must explain two things.
1 – Whether settling in a kaafir country is permissible
2 – Establishing whether there is a need to take the nationality.

With regard to the first question: settling in a kaafir country is not permissible unless the following conditions are met:
1. There should be a legitimate need for settling in their country, which cannot be met in the Muslim lands, such as trade, da’wah, officially representing a Muslim country, or seeking knowledge that is not available in a Muslim country either because it does not exist there, or what is available is not of good quality. Or there should be fear of death, prison or torture, not mere harassment, for oneself or for one’s family and children, or fear for one’s wealth.
2. Settling there should be regarded as temporary, not permanent. It is not permissible to have the intention of staying there permanently; rather one should have the idea that it is temporary, because settling there permanently means that one has migrated (made hijrah) from the land of Islam to the land of kufr. This clearly goes against the ruling of sharee’ah that it is obligatory to migrate from the land of kufr to the land of Islam. Having the intention of staying there temporarily means that when the need to stay in the kaafir country no longer applies, one will get up and leave.
3. The kaafir country in which one wants to settle should be one which is at peace with the Muslims, not one which is at war with them. Otherwise it is not permissible to settle there. A country is regarded as being at war with the Muslims if it is hostile towards the Muslims.
4. There should be religious freedom in the kaafir country, so that the Muslim will be able to practise his religion openly.
5. He should be able to learn the laws of Islam in that country; if it is difficult for him to do so then it is not permissible for him to settle there because that implies that he is turning away from learning the religion of Allaah.
6. He should think it most likely that he will be able to protect and maintain his religious commitment, and that of his family and children, otherwise it is not permissible for him to settle there, because preserving one’s religious commitment takes precedence over preserving one’s self, one’s wealth and one’s family. Whoever meets this condition – and how difficult it is to meet it – is permitted to settle in the land of the kuffaar, otherwise that is forbidden to him, because of the texts which clearly forbid settling there and enjoin migrating from such lands, as is well known, and because of the great danger which that poses to religion and morals, which no one can deny except one who is arrogant.

With regards to the second question: there should be a legitimate need for taking the nationality, such as the benefits for which the Muslim has settled in the kaafir country being dependent upon his taking the nationality. Otherwise that is not permissible for him, because taking the nationality is an obvious manifestation of befriending the kuffaar, and because it involves speaking words which it is not permissible to believe in or adhere to, such as approving of kufr or man-made laws. Moreover, taking the nationality may lead to staying in the kaafir land permanently, which is not permissible, as stated above. Having established these two points, I hope that Allaah will forgive the Muslims who settle in kaafir lands for the great danger that they have exposed themselves to, because either he is forced to settle there and necessity makes permissible that which is ordinarily forbidden, or to serve an interest which outweighs the harms. And Allaah knows best.

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patriotic
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albionuk
Oct 27 2010, 11:18 AM
The www.islam-qa.com have deleted all references to hijrah migration! There are a few sites where questions are sumitted and answered but many of them are rubbished by Musilms for one reason or another; answers given on this site have always been accepted as right. At some point quite recently they have deleted all the questions and answers from the site that related to hijrah migration. They must have been pressured to remove them after I and people like me kept sticking it to them that they are hypocrits. I believe (as I stated here some time back) that the hijrah verse (4:97) coupled with the hypocrisy verse (9:68) are gold dust. They should be on every banner and every leaflet on every demo and they should be distributed to airports to all arriving and departing Muslims. Keep sticking it to them and Muslims that don’t know about the hijrah requirement will pass on the difficult question to the ummah.

See below three links to these Q and A’s that no longer go anywhere (deleted). I don’t have the script that was given form answer 34687 and 11793 but I do for 14235 which you can read below to get an idea of what they have deleted and ask yourself WHY did they do that? (I’d like to hope that us keyboard warriors had some part to play in that).

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/34687/migration

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/11793/enemy

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/14235


Answer 14235
Praise be to Allaah.
In order to answer this question, we must explain two things.
1 – Whether settling in a kaafir country is permissible
2 – Establishing whether there is a need to take the nationality.

With regard to the first question: settling in a kaafir country is not permissible unless the following conditions are met:
1. There should be a legitimate need for settling in their country, which cannot be met in the Muslim lands, such as trade, da’wah, officially representing a Muslim country, or seeking knowledge that is not available in a Muslim country either because it does not exist there, or what is available is not of good quality. Or there should be fear of death, prison or torture, not mere harassment, for oneself or for one’s family and children, or fear for one’s wealth.
2. Settling there should be regarded as temporary, not permanent. It is not permissible to have the intention of staying there permanently; rather one should have the idea that it is temporary, because settling there permanently means that one has migrated (made hijrah) from the land of Islam to the land of kufr. This clearly goes against the ruling of sharee’ah that it is obligatory to migrate from the land of kufr to the land of Islam. Having the intention of staying there temporarily means that when the need to stay in the kaafir country no longer applies, one will get up and leave.
3. The kaafir country in which one wants to settle should be one which is at peace with the Muslims, not one which is at war with them. Otherwise it is not permissible to settle there. A country is regarded as being at war with the Muslims if it is hostile towards the Muslims.
4. There should be religious freedom in the kaafir country, so that the Muslim will be able to practise his religion openly.
5. He should be able to learn the laws of Islam in that country; if it is difficult for him to do so then it is not permissible for him to settle there because that implies that he is turning away from learning the religion of Allaah.
6. He should think it most likely that he will be able to protect and maintain his religious commitment, and that of his family and children, otherwise it is not permissible for him to settle there, because preserving one’s religious commitment takes precedence over preserving one’s self, one’s wealth and one’s family. Whoever meets this condition – and how difficult it is to meet it – is permitted to settle in the land of the kuffaar, otherwise that is forbidden to him, because of the texts which clearly forbid settling there and enjoin migrating from such lands, as is well known, and because of the great danger which that poses to religion and morals, which no one can deny except one who is arrogant.

With regards to the second question: there should be a legitimate need for taking the nationality, such as the benefits for which the Muslim has settled in the kaafir country being dependent upon his taking the nationality. Otherwise that is not permissible for him, because taking the nationality is an obvious manifestation of befriending the kuffaar, and because it involves speaking words which it is not permissible to believe in or adhere to, such as approving of kufr or man-made laws. Moreover, taking the nationality may lead to staying in the kaafir land permanently, which is not permissible, as stated above. Having established these two points, I hope that Allaah will forgive the Muslims who settle in kaafir lands for the great danger that they have exposed themselves to, because either he is forced to settle there and necessity makes permissible that which is ordinarily forbidden, or to serve an interest which outweighs the harms. And Allaah knows best.

Ha ha, loving it!
maybe this should be put into leaflets and distributed among the muslims at demos! ;)
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lan-astaslem
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There is quite a bit about the subject here

Hijrah:

Migration for the Cause of Allah


taken form the book entitled: 'Al Wala' wa'l Bara' Authored by: Muhammad Sa'eed Al Qahtani


This is one of the most important facets of our discussion, since alliance and dissociation are always among the primary motivating factors of migration for the sake of Allah. We will divide our discussion of this into two broad areas:

1. Living among the disbelievers and its ruling.

2. Migrating from the abode of disbelief to the abode of Islam.

1. Living in the abode of disbelief

The jurists have explained the complimentary concepts of the "Abode of Disbelief' and that of "Islam" as follows:

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/hijrah.htm
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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Tread Softly
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The three reasons a Muslim usually gives to the question "Why aren't you doing hirjah?" that I've come across:
1) "There are no Muslim countries, they're all corrupt." (I get them to commit to going to Afghanistan when/if the Taliban eventually create their Sharia-based state there.)
2) "I'm planning on doing it eventually but how can I when I don't have any money?/Staying here to give me/my kids an education." (It's not that important to them then...)
3) "I'm staying in the UK to do dawah." (But you don't do dawah, I answer).
Edited by Tread Softly, Oct 27 2010, 06:29 PM.
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learning curve
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seems i have much ahead of me to learn...
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