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BBC News, 6 Arrested For Burning Koran; But It Didn't Mention EDL
Topic Started: Sep 23 2010, 12:58 PM (1,543 Views)
Steve Freedom
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Wigone
Sep 23 2010, 03:49 PM
this is playing right into our hands the more the police squeeze the population the more will join the EDL.
Revving an engine in a racist manner wtf!!!!
They will arrest us for breathing in a racist manner soon.
best not look at them either....


the accuser only said " maybe " MAYBE so the poor lad was fined for something that was not provable in a court of law .....

Well i did not know that

So now i can get a Muslim man arrested cause i might think he might be thinking of maybe looking at me in what maybe a racist manner

there s going to be a lot of calls to my local dibble see how they like that .

wait a minute i forget they will probably do me for wasting police time
“The modern definition of "racist" is "someone who is winning an argument with a liberal” --- Peter Brimelow
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dazza
Sep 23 2010, 02:40 PM
Someone called 1millionunited has put a video of it up with EDL in the title. Wasnt gonna take these sad bastards long to point the finger at the EDL.
dont worry bout him ;)




as for the coppers and the 6 lads

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lancashirelad
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It will be interesting to see how the media cover this, i dont think skys mentioned it yet and the Islamic broadcasting coperation aka bbc havnt really gone to town on it yet, considering the yankee preacher was the main news round the world. I think the media are waiting for confirmation of which book was burnt, it will also be interesting to see the reactions of the special ones.
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lan-astaslem
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aluman
Sep 23 2010, 03:19 PM
Never mind what you read mate you tell me one case that you know of ? i rest my case .

You saying it was out in 2006 well nick griffin was in court in 2001 and if you were right would of got 7 years .

In 1998 Griffin was convicted of violating section 19 of the Public Order Act 1986

In January 2006. Griffin stood alongside fellow party activist Mark Collett, who faced similar charges. Prosecuting, Rodney Jameson QC told the jury of six speeches that the accused had made in the Reservoir Tavern in Keighley on 19 January 2004. Reading excerpts from them, he claimed that they included threatening, abusive and insulting words directed at "people of Asian ethnicity", with the intention of "stirring up racial hatred

In the witness box he defended himself by quoting passages from the Qur'an, saying that his comments describing Islam as a "vicious, wicked faith" were attacking not a race, but a religion. During the two-week trial he used a laptop to post daily updates on a blog on the BNP's website

Griffin and Collett were cleared of half the charges against them—the jury remained divided on the other charges, and a retrial was ordered. On 10 November 2006, after five hours of deliberations, the jury cleared them of all charges
“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

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Mrgarygibbon
Sep 23 2010, 02:28 PM
All they have to say in court is they burnt a copy of this, with a Quaran cover on it. There's no evidence left so how can they prove any different. Burnt offerings just like Ainsley's recipes.

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It's another sign that we are in WonderLand. People are burning books in order to defend freedom of speech.

It's exactly the same with the Geert Wilders trial, where the judges said that it didn't matter if what he said was true - it is the act of telling the truth that is the offense.

This is where PC and multi-culturalism has brought us to.

It's "racist" for a white person to call someone from Pakistan a "p***" (because most of them are not white), but Pakistanis can call each other "p***" and it's not racist. I've even seen the brain-dead lefties calling Guramit Singh a racist for using the word "p***".

However, it's not racist for non-white people to burn the British flag (when most of us are white).

=======
edit: sorry folks, even though I put the supposed racist term in quotation marks, the system automatically converted it to the full word "pakistani".

We have gone beyond WonderLand, and we're Through the Looking Glass.
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Disenfranchised Briton
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Virgin Media have a page on it
Six people have been arrested on suspicion of inciting racial hatred after a recording of what appeared to be Korans being burned appeared on the internet.

Officers detained two men on September 15 and four more on Wednesday and all six were bailed pending further inquiries, Northumbria Police said.

"The arrests followed the burning of what are believed to have been two Korans in Gateshead on September 11," the spokesman said.

"The incident was recorded and a video placed on the internet."

In a video still accessible on YouTube, six young men in hooded tops or wearing scarves over their faces can be seen pouring petrol on a book and setting it alight, before burning another.

On the video, which appeared to have been filmed behind a pub, they cheer as the first book bursts into flames.

Northumbria Police said the men were not arrested for watching or distributing the video, but on suspicion of burning the Koran.

Gateshead Council and the force issued a joint statement to stress that community relations in the area were good.

It said: "The kind of behaviour displayed in this video is not at all representative of our community as a whole. Our community is one of mutual respect and we continue to work together with community leaders, residents and people of all faiths and beliefs to maintain good community relations."

The men may have been copying Florida-based Pastor Terry Jones, who caused an international outcry by threatening to burn the holy book on September 11, although he did not go ahead with the plan.

http://latestnews.virginmedia.com/news/uk/2010/09/23/six_arrested_for_burning_korans

Can we sue the Police for wasting their own time? This needs to be settled once and for all. If they don't think burning a Union flag is a crime then why is burning a koran? It is nonsense. The koran itself is incitement to hatred of athiests so are they going to ban it?
Gin & Tonic Division
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We need to start a campaign to get the Racial and Religious Hatred law amended. It should outlaw the Koran itself. Force them to edit out the incitements to murder.

It would draw the attention of the entire country to fact that their religion enshrines hatred and the double standards used in this country in order to protect them.

===============
Come to think of it, that is almost exactly what Geert Wilders is saying - the Koran should be banned in Holland under existing hate-speech legislation. Why can't we do the same? The Religious Hatred law exists already - let's push for it to be consistent.
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aluman
Sep 23 2010, 03:19 PM
Never mind what you read mate you tell me one case that you know of ? i rest my case .

You saying it was out in 2006 well nick griffin was in court in 2001 and if you were right would of got 7 years .

The police always try it on but it never gets any were.
I told you the case I know of that (the only one) went to trial, Tony Bamber and he was found not guilty.

I'm not interested in Nick Griffin's trial in 2001, as the legislation didn't come into effect until 2006. So please quote me something post legislation.

I can't be bothered to check, but wasn't NG on trial for a race offence, not a religious offence?



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I wonder, if some Muslims burned a couple of Bibles, would they be arrested? Probably not.
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Are we governed by Sharia Law already? Certainly looks like it.

Since when was it illegal to burn a fecking book?

I hope this wakes a few people up from their slumber.
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Sky Channel 975 now - being covered on there.
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Road_Hog
Sep 23 2010, 06:27 PM
I can't be bothered to check, but wasn't NG on trial for a race offence, not a religious offence?



Many people claim that the Religious Hatred Act was brought in to catch out a loophole that Griffin allegedly exploits in existing "race" laws.

However, the truth of the matter is that the Religious Hatred law began as an amendment to a piece of anti-terrorists legislation. That it was so intimately connected with anti-terrorist legislation following the London bombing shows that it was done
a) as a sop to muslims
b) to prevent any backlash from non-muslims who have had enough of a religion that is used to justify terrorism

Either way, the law exists solely to protect islam from criticism.
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Disenfranchised Briton
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Homo Sapien
Sep 23 2010, 06:25 PM
We need to start a campaign to get the Racial and Religious Hatred law amended. It should outlaw the Koran itself. Force them to edit out the incitements to murder.

It would draw the attention of the entire country to fact that their religion enshrines hatred and the double standards used in this country in order to protect them.

===============
Come to think of it, that is almost exactly what Geert Wilders is saying - the Koran should be banned in Holland under existing hate-speech legislation. Why can't we do the same? The Religious Hatred law exists already - let's push for it to be consistent.
Absolutely HS. THe koran calls for all homosexuals to be murdered. It is homophobic. It is an incitement to hatred of homosexuals. The koran incites hatred against atheists and apostates. The koran also denigrates women. How can this hate filled book be given special dispensations? Why is it protected, it is NOT part of OUR heritage or culture or value system.
It is time that it was brought to the fore, examined critically and banned.

What books are banned in the UK and on what basis?
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nb77
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WATB
Sep 23 2010, 06:27 PM
I wonder, if some Muslims burned a couple of Bibles, would they be arrested? Probably not.
And this is the very problem we are facing.

Cannot understand how in the UK... it is okay to burn your own flag but if you burn a quran it is jail worthy.

fcuking backwards. A complete piss take.

The one sided will get the muslims what they want.


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Disenfranchised Briton
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Sep 23 2010, 06:31 PM
Homo Sapien
Sep 23 2010, 06:25 PM
We need to start a campaign to get the Racial and Religious Hatred law amended. It should outlaw the Koran itself. Force them to edit out the incitements to murder.

It would draw the attention of the entire country to fact that their religion enshrines hatred and the double standards used in this country in order to protect them.

===============
Come to think of it, that is almost exactly what Geert Wilders is saying - the Koran should be banned in Holland under existing hate-speech legislation. Why can't we do the same? The Religious Hatred law exists already - let's push for it to be consistent.
Absolutely HS. THe koran calls for all homosexuals to be murdered. It is homophobic. It is an incitement to hatred of homosexuals. The koran incites hatred against atheists and apostates. The koran also denigrates women. How can this hate filled book be given special dispensations? Why is it protected, it is NOT part of OUR heritage or culture or value system.
It is time that it was brought to the fore, examined critically and banned.

What books are banned in the UK and on what basis?
Perhaps our banners should have pertinent extracts from the koran on them with "is this not incitement to murder/ religious hatred / intolerance/ homophobia" or whatever is appropriate underneath.
It is time to directly and strongly question the whole "incitement" law.
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TheNozSouthShields
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Just been on Look North there. Some Muslim gadgey giving it all the "religion of peace" rubbish.
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londonloyal
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quote" Gateshead Council and the force issued a joint statement to stress that community relations in the area were good.

It said: "The kind of behaviour displayed in this video is not at all representative of our community as a whole. Our community is one of mutual respect and we continue to work together with community leaders, residents and people of all faiths and beliefs to maintain good community relations."
4 mentions of "community" in one sentence ,has anyone ever seen or heard from an " English community leader " ?
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Christine Patriot
Sep 23 2010, 03:23 PM
ENUFisENUF
Sep 23 2010, 02:30 PM
I think EDL merchandise needs to produce a range of qur'an based goods.
1: A qur'an doormat (nothing insults the mussies more than dirty feet on a qur'an)
2: a range of qur'an toilet paper
3: qur'an napkins
4: qur'anic quotes on shoehorns
5: qur'anic quotes on dog sh1te plastic bags
6: qur'an dog beds
How about:

'Dunqur'anDip Pork Scratchings'? :pig1:
My dog would like the dog bed in XL please & i'll take the poo bags
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boztours
Sep 23 2010, 06:37 PM
quote" Gateshead Council and the force issued a joint statement to stress that community relations in the area were good.

It said: "The kind of behaviour displayed in this video is not at all representative of our community as a whole. Our community is one of mutual respect and we continue to work together with community leaders, residents and people of all faiths and beliefs to maintain good community relations."
4 mentions of "community" in one sentence ,has anyone ever seen or heard from an " English community leader " ?
.... and the Muslim Community are having a meeting about it tonight.
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londonloyal
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well theres a surprise !
i bet they feel "offended" !
Edited by londonloyal, Sep 23 2010, 06:54 PM.
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EDL_Simmo
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I.Give. Up. The British Law is beyond me "/ Is it one rule for them and another for us?
Winston Churchill 'A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality'
Cecil Rhodes "Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first place in the lottery of life".

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pyrus
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we might sympathise with what these people did, and we're certainly right to point out that flag-burning should be treated in the same way (at least)

but I'm still not sure if this is something we should be associated with - might be worth keeping our distance from this one

there will be plenty of time to critique flag burners
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marquis du mont st michel
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ENUFisENUF
Sep 23 2010, 02:30 PM
I think EDL merchandise needs to produce a range of qur'an based goods.
1: A qur'an doormat (nothing insults the mussies more than dirty feet on a qur'an)
2: a range of qur'an toilet paper
3: qur'an napkins
4: qur'anic quotes on shoehorns
5: qur'anic quotes on dog sh1te plastic bags
6: qur'an dog beds
Tre Clasic ha ha ha ha
-Though a host should encamp against me, My heart shall not fear: Though war should rise against me, Even then will I be confident.

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http://focusuk.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/iran-burns-hundreds-of-bibles/

hmmm...
http://lionheartuk.blogspot.com/2007/01/shame-on-british-government.html
Edited by Armypatriot, Sep 23 2010, 09:11 PM.
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Road_Hog
Sep 23 2010, 01:56 PM
aluman
Sep 23 2010, 01:50 PM


"The Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom (citation 2006 c. 1) which creates an offence in England and Wales of inciting hatred against a person on the grounds of their religion. "
reading this, it needs to be an attack against a person not a thing.

Now if i were to shout to a muslim in the street something like your a smelly fcuking muslim, then yes under this act i could be arrested / prosecuted, as the offence is against the person

BUT if i were to state a fact i.e. mohammed was a pedophile then i doubt i have committed an offence, and if the person is offended by facts then this opens a different can of worms, and i would be very surprised if a court would successfully prosecute anyone on these grounds, this is what Geert is fighting against in holland.

Now in this case, it is a 'thing' not a person which they burned. Ownership of that item is that of the person who bought it, which gives them title to that item. So the problem is... if someone were to buy the koran and then walk into he middle of the high street and claim that 'i do not like what i bought' and proceeds to throw it away in the bin .... would that offend a muslim ? .... of course but then are we saying that the act of disposing what one would called rubbish offensive to someone else .... you get the picture ..... so the case of prosecution will not be for the act of burning the koran, the case will be for the act of making the video .... but then .... are we saying that any film that shows destruction of a church or religious building is offensive ? yea .. the mind boggles doesn't it ...

This is why i believe there has yet been a tidal wave successful prosecutions .... these boys need to refuse acceptence of a caution and go to court, if it gets that far ... then all they need to do is produce images of muslims burning the statanic verses, flag, cartoons and say i find this offensives, was anyone prosecuted etc etc ...

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Wigone
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Are the police going to trace and arrest these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQBw7koMoPs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k63fRBmYevE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CshCI90Nfqc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anl2GKVcPTk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh7yKbGjDaI
If the police do scour these forums I hope they dig deep inside themselves and ask them the questions we ask ourselves everyday.
Could you live under Sharia Law. They may not think it is coming because they have had all the diversity training but when the day comes their darling daughter is either gang raped by muzzies, wearing a burkha or having a marriage arranged they will do nothing.
Our forefather fought for free speech and I hope the OB is happy.
Edited by Wigone, Sep 23 2010, 09:28 PM.
They don't like it up 'em.
Don't tell them your name Pike.
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aluman
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Homo Sapien
Sep 23 2010, 06:31 PM
Road_Hog
Sep 23 2010, 06:27 PM
I can't be bothered to check, but wasn't NG on trial for a race offence, not a religious offence?



Many people claim that the Religious Hatred Act was brought in to catch out a loophole that Griffin allegedly exploits in existing "race" laws.

However, the truth of the matter is that the Religious Hatred law began as an amendment to a piece of anti-terrorists legislation. That it was so intimately connected with anti-terrorist legislation following the London bombing shows that it was done
a) as a sop to muslims
b) to prevent any backlash from non-muslims who have had enough of a religion that is used to justify terrorism

Either way, the law exists solely to protect islam from criticism.
The law doz not exists ? post it on here ?

It got kicked out coz it was to hard to wright ? AND the laws have to be written so thay meen just what say
and that could not be done in this case with out infringing on freedom of speech

but no doubt you will not have this so pls post it and we can all have a read
and saying that islam is a wicked and vicous faith as nick did is not racial
Edited by aluman, Sep 23 2010, 09:34 PM.
ALUMAN HAS BEEN GAGGED FOR TELLING THE TRUTH
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From Atlas Shrugs:

Six Arrested in UK Over Qu'ran Burning

England has indeed entered a very dark age. Yes, it's a bad idea to burn a qu'ran but so what? And what's next? If you insult a Muslim, will that too, be a jailable offense?  If we stop doing things they dislike, where will we draw the line? How far will Sharia advance in the U.S., with Americans afraid to stop its advance for fear of offending Muslims and stirring them up to violence?

If  men are free and not under Sharia, then anyone can do this if they want, and their freedom and rights should be protected. Islamic supremacists should not be allowed a victory for their violent intimidation -- if these people want to burn a book, they're free to do so.

America, take heed as this protends most ill for our future as we are following the same primitive path of submission.

"The principle of free speech is not concerned with the content of a man's speech and does not protect only the expression of good ideas, but all ideas. If it were otherwise, who would determine which ideas are good and where forbidden? The government?"

"Once a country accepts censorship of the press and of speech, then nothing can be won without violence. Therefore, so long as you have free speech, protect it. This is the life-and-death issue in this country: do not give up the freedom of the press -- of newspapers, books, magazines, radio, movies, and other forms of presenting ideas. So long as that's free, a peaceful intellectual turn is possible." Ayn Rand


Unindicted co-conspirator, Hamas-linked, Muslim Brotherhood front CAIR is calling for prosecution"to the full extent of state and federal law" in the case of a burned qu'ran copy.

Sorry, supremacists, this is protected speech. There have been thousands of burned flags, desecrated bibles, torahs, blah blah blah. So what? 

We would have to introduce an amendment to the Constitution abridging free speech in order to prosecute such "crimes."

Yes, burning the qu'ran is a bad idea. It does a grave disservice to the cause of spreading awareness about Islamic teachings and the threat that Sharia poses to our way of life.

The burning of books is wrong in principle: the antidote to bad speech is not censorship or book-burning, but more speech. Open discussion. Give-and-take. And the truth will out. There is no justification for burning books.

If they were burning a Bible, no one would be threatening violence against them. And nobody would be threatening to have them prosecuted to the full extent of the law, as the Islamic supremacists like Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas-linked CAIR is doing.

Six arrested in Gateshead over 'Koran burning' Telegraph hat tip Armaros

Officers detained two men on September 15 and four more yesterday and all six were bailed pending further inquiries, Northumbria Police said.

''The arrests followed the burning of what are believed to have been two Korans in Gateshead on September 11,'' the spokesman said.

Officers detained two men on September 15 and four more yesterday and all six were bailed pending further inquiries, Northumbria Police said.

''The arrests followed the burning of what are believed to have been two Korans in Gateshead on September 11,'' the spokesman said.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/

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Legal arguments aside...

What is so morally reprehensible about hating a religion? Especially when that religion preaches hatred towards you and a significant number of its followers advocate and practice its doctrine to the detriment of those who do not subscribe to it.

Why is it wrong or even illegal to hate those that hate us? Why are we allowing ourselves to be conditioned this way? Why are we wary of speaking out against something that is so hateful toward so many? Why should we have to think before we speak lest someone might hear us and be outraged?

It isn't us who should be punished for thinking and speaking our minds. It is those who make us feel this way who should be held responsible. For if it were not for them, the world would be a better place and we would be a better people.
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brianoflondon
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All religious hatred laws are a bad idea. They represent a thought crime. Banning Mein Kampf (as is the case all over Europe) is a bad idea: I've got a copy and its worth reading.

Geert Wilders is widely mis-quoted as having called for the banning of the Koran, what he actually said was this: if you're going to ban Mein Kampf (as they do in Holland) you should be fair and ban the Koran. He believes that its wrong to ban either.

We've taken the whole concept of "I am offended therefore you did something wrong" to its logical and frightening conclusion.

The only hope is that this sort of thing will backfire. When you criminalise an act that thousands can repeat easily and quickly, you will make the judicial system look like an ass. That is what will happen in this case.
Brian of London has been actively occupying a very small slice of hideously over-occupied Tel Aviv since early 2009.


Islam is a giant bungee cord tying it's adherents to the 7th century.
They can pull themselves almost to the twenty first century but eventually the cord tightens and flings them back.
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aluman
Sep 23 2010, 09:31 PM
The law doz not exists ? post it on here ?

I give up, you've beaten me with stupidity. You have more experience and I can't compete.
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Wigone
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What is so morally reprehensible about hating a religion? Especially when that religion preaches hatred towards you and a significant number of its followers advocate and practice its doctrine to the detriment of those who do not subscribe to it.

Why is it wrong or even illegal to hate those that hate us? Why are we allowing ourselves to be conditioned this way? Why are we wary of speaking out against something that is so hateful toward so many? Why should we have to think before we speak lest someone might hear us and be outraged?

It isn't us who should be punished for thinking and speaking our minds. It is those who make us feel this way who should be held responsible. For if it were not for them, the world would be a better place and we would be a better people.

You are so right here, in schools or work if you were being bullied, the perportrator would get punished, even if they didn't feel they were bullying, you it is how you percieve you were being treated and how you felt by their treatment. And it works both ways doesn't when the victim (aka us) fights back (because the perputrator gets away with it aka muslims) the police seem to arrest us as the perputrator of bullying and violence rather than the real perputrator.
Edited by Wigone, Sep 23 2010, 10:59 PM.
They don't like it up 'em.
Don't tell them your name Pike.
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stormcrow
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pyrus
Sep 23 2010, 06:56 PM
we might sympathise with what these people did, and we're certainly right to point out that flag-burning should be treated in the same way (at least)

but I'm still not sure if this is something we should be associated with - might be worth keeping our distance from this one

there will be plenty of time to critique flag burners
total crap.
theres already been 2 flash demos outside gateshead nick. the lads and lasses were there in the hoodies and stuff.
we support our members all the way.you obviously dont have the stomach for the fight.
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Wigone
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Thing is even if it wasn't EDL the fact is if we don't fight free speech is DEAD.
They don't like it up 'em.
Don't tell them your name Pike.
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roger_bates
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Sep 23 2010, 01:08 PM
Someone was saying the other day that the police will only look into it if there is a complaint, so someone must have gone to them and complained about this video?.
EDL Management should put a complaint into the police aboutthe flag burning using that video from itv news as evidence.
Maybe even write to the bbc news desk and ask why they didn't cover this story?
Yep people need to start making official complaints especially to the police. Religious and racial hatred is a 2 way street. I have already comaplined to the bbc about thehri lack of coverage of the mac protests both the flag burning and against the pope.
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pyrus
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stormcrow
Sep 23 2010, 11:00 PM
pyrus
Sep 23 2010, 06:56 PM
we might sympathise with what these people did, and we're certainly right to point out that flag-burning should be treated in the same way (at least)

but I'm still not sure if this is something we should be associated with - might be worth keeping our distance from this one

there will be plenty of time to critique flag burners
total crap.
theres already been 2 flash demos outside gateshead nick. the lads and lasses were there in the hoodies and stuff.
we support our members all the way.you obviously dont have the stomach for the fight.
all I'm saying is that it might not be great for the EDL to be portrayed as Koran burners

yes there are good freedom of expression arguments why there shouldn't be prosecutions, and there are also good reasons why the Koran might deserve to burn

but we need to make these arguments really forcibly if we're to avoid the perception that we're prejudiced hatemongers

and I think that's very hard to do in the current climate

I'm not saying that we shouldn't support anyone who is arrested for burning a Koran (of course we should), just that we shouldn't rush to endorse such actions

understand maybe, condone no
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stormcrow
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i,ll tell you how far freedom of expression has been eroded.one of our EDY was thrown off the metro (the local fast transport system) by the ob for wearing his EDL hoodie.they recon it could cause offence.he was told take it off and you can stay on the train.keep it on and your off at the next stop.
they are out to demoralise and break up the EDL.members are getting arrested right left and centre on trumped up charges,minor things that they know they will have no chance of prosecuting but they can apply for warrents,raid your home and sieze your pc,mob phone and your EDL gear.and make you wait months to get them back.we are already at war.so how is distancing yourself from burning the koran gonna make any differance.
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pyrus
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to me it seems sensible to want to distance ourselves from actions that joe public don't yet quite understand the possible justification for

to many people (people who we'll need to win round if we're to grow and make important changes), koran burning is needlessly offensive

yes they need to be educated further about the context in which people saw fit to burn such a book, but in the meantime I don't think it makes a great deal of sense supporting actions that could further alienate these potential supporters



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DonkingDave
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Made national news in Aus.

Mmmmmmm.
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pyrus
Sep 23 2010, 11:32 PM
stormcrow
Sep 23 2010, 11:00 PM
pyrus
Sep 23 2010, 06:56 PM
we might sympathise with what these people did, and we're certainly right to point out that flag-burning should be treated in the same way (at least)

but I'm still not sure if this is something we should be associated with - might be worth keeping our distance from this one

there will be plenty of time to critique flag burners
total crap.
theres already been 2 flash demos outside gateshead nick. the lads and lasses were there in the hoodies and stuff.
we support our members all the way.you obviously dont have the stomach for the fight.
all I'm saying is that it might not be great for the EDL to be portrayed as Koran burners

yes there are good freedom of expression arguments why there shouldn't be prosecutions, and there are also good reasons why the Koran might deserve to burn

but we need to make these arguments really forcibly if we're to avoid the perception that we're prejudiced hatemongers

and I think that's very hard to do in the current climate

I'm not saying that we shouldn't support anyone who is arrested for burning a Koran (of course we should), just that we shouldn't rush to endorse such actions

understand maybe, condone no
EDL distanced itself from and condemned the act of burning the Quran well before this event occurred and suffice to say it does not condone such actions.

However, this forum operates a policy of freedom of speech and expression (within reason) that people like you and me cannot practice in our day to day lives through fear of being branded racist or (insert label here).

You are almost apologising in your post for the actions of these lads. An apology is an admission of guilt and an act of submission.

Of course we are better than 'them' but where has that got us thus far?
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pyrus
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I see your point about the apologetic tone scott - that's not the impression we want to give out either

maybe just moderating our responses a little, not going overboard in our support for koran burning - maybe that's the best approach (?)
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pyrus
Sep 24 2010, 12:08 AM
I see your point about the apologetic tone scott - that's not the impression we want to give out either

maybe just moderating our responses a little, not going overboard in our support for koran burning - maybe that's the best approach (?)
Why even moderate our responses? Surely then we are trying not to offend and that is exactly what 'they' want. As for impressions we are slighted no matter what we do!

The views expressed in this forum are not necessarily representative of the EDL...

'They' want to silence us out there and we'll be fcuked if they think they will silence us in here.

As for the best approach, Islam hates, WITH A PASSION, every and anything that opposes or criticises it and this is its weakness and those opposed to it (imo) should exploit this at every opportunity.

By allowing them to instil a fear in us against offending Islam is a weakness on our part and another victory for them. They themselves are not as polite about it so fcuk em.
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Steve Freedom
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to me the best response is it is a book simple as that and if people can be arrested for a book being burned then they sure as hell should be arrested for burning a flag
SIMPLE EQUALITY BEFORE THE LAW IS ALL WE ASK
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Ordinary Englishman
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There is a good point above regarding that the hates crimes are against the person and not against an object / belief.

I wonder if this principal has been legally tested?

As for those young Gentlemen having to sit in front of a Jury;

If I was on that Jury, they would walk free and I'm sure most fair and reasonable people would ensure that the same happens.

However

What would be the outcome if on that Jury there were 'special' people. Hopefully we will never get to a postistion where the 'special' ones would outnumber fair and reasonable people on a Jury.



Personally I really would like this to go to Crown Court so that it would be tested and a legal precident be set. I'd be quite happy to chip in a few quid to ensure that those young men got some proper legal representation.

Perhaps starting up a donation / slush fund to help EDL members who no doubtly in the future are going to need some (good) legal representation could be an idea?

It will be difficult but the more cases that go before a Judge and Jury, most of which the defendants would be aquitted I'd suggest, will set presidents that will define what can and cannot be done under the religion hate laws.
In fact I bet it'd never get to court as the government know that no Jury in the land would ever convict them !
Edited by Ordinary Englishman, Sep 24 2010, 01:10 AM.
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tobias malachi
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You have got two different police forces involved that are indipendent of each other (we dont have a state police force) so the two actions are not linked in the eye,s of the law up north.
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Update from the DM:


"All six of those held claim to be members of the English Defence League, a far-Right group opposed to the spread of Islamism.
The men said they should not have been arrested because ‘ Muslims are allowed to burn British flags’. One man, a 37-year- old unemployed father, said: ‘It wasn’t so much planned as more we were driven to do it.
‘Now there seems to be one law for them and one law for us. They can burn a Union Flag and the Stars and Stripes, but we get arrested for
burning a few sheets of paper.’ "




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314534/Arrests-burning-Koran-9-11-posted-online.html#ixzz10PbNmZ1F

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From CP's link in the post above, it says they can be imprisoned for 7 years. Ffs, this is too crazy for words. 7 years for burning a couple of fecking books - think about it, this is total madness. This isn't fecking Saudi Arabia, or Iran, is it?

Quote:
 
All six men are from the same estate in the town and have been granted bail until mid-November while the Crown Prosecution Service awaits guidance from Mr Grieve over whether to bring charges under the 1986 Public Order Act – charges carrying a maximum sentence of seven years in jail.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314534/Arrests-burning-Koran-9-11-posted-online.html#ixzz10PrFaQjn
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I just hope these guys stand there ground BUT they'd be unwise to say too much without representation. Can't blame them though, it's a symptom of sheer frustration at the authorities.
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lethal_ghost
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why dont we get loads of people to burn a koran if you can get a thousand to do it and post it on youtube then what would the ob do ?
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