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| Israeli Flag?; What is the Affiliation to Israel | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 31 2010, 08:20 AM (767 Views) | |
| ukarmy | May 31 2010, 01:44 PM Post #51 |
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| LeeJay | May 31 2010, 02:27 PM Post #52 |
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Hello UK ARMY. You are free to go to a mosque or a church in Israel or go dancing in a nightclub - the flag is symbolic, that is it! In the U.K. no other faith group or whatever is demanding that we change everything and no other faith group is threatening terrorism against the British people in the name of any God apart from Islam. Also, no other faith group desires to change our legal system and to enforce a legalized code whereby we will become second class citizens. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 02:43 PM Post #53 |
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There are Jews in the EDL that go to demos and they are going to fly whatever flag they want. Its like somebody who is from America going to a EDL demo and flying the American flag. Many people in the EDL see the Israel flag as a symbol against Islamic extremism, as Hamas and radical Muslims would like to see Israel no longer exist. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 02:48 PM Post #54 |
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I should imagine it won't be long until the corrupt and infiltrated EU accept Turkey - Obama is also doing his manchurian bit, by pushing for an early inclusion of Turkey, backed by our own Europhiles, Clegg and Cameron! What they, the EU and the MSM casually ignore is Iran has for some time been striving for closer Islamic relations with Turkey, with a main aim of forming a strategic alliance, as part of a global confrontation against the West. 2 camps exist and are working together, the Middle East Axis (Saudi-Egyptian) and the Iranian Axis (comprises of Qatar, Hezbolla, Hamas, Iran and Syria) - with the inclusion of North Korea. G_d help us all. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 02:51 PM Post #55 |
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I am fully supportive of Israel. Will gladly fly the flag of that of Isael and Jews, alongside my own. I don't agree with some comments on this thread (particulary those stressed in the op historically of Israel, but I won't go there), but everyone is entitled to their opinion, so be it. |
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| pyrus | May 31 2010, 02:56 PM Post #56 |
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I happen to be strong support of Israel. But for those with doubts, try to remember that Israel is unfairly demonised in a similar way to the EDL We're told that Israel is 'victimising' the 'Palestinians' when it's just doing what it must to defend its people from the Hamas death cult (and doing it very humanely given the circumstances) We're told that the EDL are Nazis for opposing those radicals who do genuinely admire much of the work of Nazi Germany, and who have in mind an even worse future than we would have experienced had the Third Reich triumphed As HomoSapien said, it's all about solidarity: An alliance of liberal democracies vs the totalitarian 'religious' radicals |
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(All about me: http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3771350/) My YouTube channel | |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 02:56 PM Post #57 |
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I found the capitalising ENGLISH very patronising. Would I not be allowed to fly a Canadian flag because I'm not in Canada, but even though I am half? |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 02:59 PM Post #58 |
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I amended my post as it may not have been very clear initially... |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 03:06 PM Post #59 |
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So now I understand why they call us the ZDL. |
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| MrsCheeks | May 31 2010, 03:29 PM Post #60 |
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Yes Islam did not exist until as you say a relatively short time ago in comparison with many faiths. But it is where Islam CAME from that is interesting .... it sprouted from the jewish faith, from people who felt that the true faith was being diluted and warped for self-0gain. They wanted to have a true faith that follwed the teachings as they were intended. Hence the Quran frequently refers to God, and the father of the faith who is Abraham. Mohammed was a teacher, just the same as Jesus, who beleived that only when they return to the true faith for the better good will they receive their eternal life. How ironic therefore that the very people Mohammed urged his followers to rise up against - those who used and abused their faith for their own self-0gain - are the very ones who preach his word today. Just as the words of Jesus were and still are twisted today. Islam is no different a religion - in it's creation - as Baptists, Methodists, Evanglesists and so many other splinter groups who originally existed as a means of going back to a pure faith. THere is IMO blame on BOTH sides of the equation when it comes to Palestine and Israel. |
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| mariax | May 31 2010, 03:43 PM Post #61 |
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Have Jews bombed us, raped our daughters, rioted in our cites . Refused to intergrate. Desicrated our churches .corrupted our political system . They like us are the victims of the facist islamists. God save isreal |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 03:58 PM Post #62 |
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But islam came from Saudi Arabia, not Jerusalem. And if you look on islam as being a political ideology as much as a religion (after all, the fundamentalists call for a caliphate and for sharia law) then you can take another perspective on the so-called connection to christianity and judaism. Namely, that it is a way of claiming that the adherents of those religions should support your political ideology. As far as christianity is concerned, islam is heretical. It is no continuation of christianity. When the koran was first translated into English a couple of centuries ago, it's publication was banned because it was heresy. As you can imagine, if christians consider it heresy (it denies the divinity of christ, and asserts that christ is the slave of Allah, it repudiates the virgin birth, it repudiates the entire trinity as blasphemy), then jews will have far more trouble seeing it as in any way connected to their religion. Muslims have driven christians and jews from Saudi Arabia. There were large jewish and christian communities there before Mohammed was born. Mrs. Cheeks, you should read The Life of Mohammed. This is the 2nd most holy book in islam, and is a fundamental part of their scripture. There is a short version of it online, and I will post a link to it if you are interested. You can decide for yourself if this man who led an army "was a teacher, just the same as Jesus". I find it hard to consider a man who personally oversaw the beheadings of hundreds of innocent jews as being anything remotely like Christ. A very different historical figure from the 20th century comes to my mind. If I was a christian, I'd take strong objection to Mohammed being considered to be anything like Jesus. But I'm not, so I offer mild encouragement to read The Life of Mohammed instead |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 04:26 PM Post #63 |
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Well said HS! |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 04:30 PM Post #64 |
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Brought up as a Catholic but now a follower of no religion. I can't for the life of me see how people can equate Mo with Jesus! |
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| LeeJay | May 31 2010, 04:31 PM Post #65 |
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EDL must be united against our common foe and our common foe is radical Islam which desires to change our way of life. It is good that the EDL is diverse and this applies to ethnicity, religion, and politics; because to Islamists we are all the enemy and they do not care if we are black or white; Christian, Hindu, Jew, Sikh, or non-believer; or if we are socialist, nationalist, conservative or whatever. In the land of Mecca and Medina we would all face persecution for not believing in Islam and Islamic sharia law. Edited by LeeJay, May 31 2010, 04:39 PM.
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 05:00 PM Post #66 |
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It is true what they say, mud sticks. There will always be a few who will never sway from fully supporting Jews/Israel, just as some still won't support other stigmatised groups: black and homosexuals.....very sad imo). Based on years of ignorancee and descrimination drummed into us. I grew up witnessing prejudice towards Jews and non-white people. Even within my own family. Ironic considering that one Grandparent had Jewish parentage, but due to stigma and prejudice, denied their heritage by trying to keep it a secret, scared of reprisals no doubt. |
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| MrsCheeks | May 31 2010, 05:32 PM Post #67 |
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Thanks HS I will read that ![]() Just to clear any misunderstanding of what I meant - Jesus TAUGHT people the way of the Lord, and in the same vein Mohammed was a teacher of the word and law of God and the forefathers of us all - Abraham. The old testament features heavily in the first books of the Quran, with many referecnes to Moses as well. If you take the words of Jesus in his sermons as a literal translation, you could say that he also preached violence towards others - an eye for an eye or "do unto others as you would have do to you" being the most commonly referred to. In many ways this is the same as has been said by Mohammed - those who seek to hurt us we will retaliate. There are also many references within hisotry where the Jews HAVE been accused of atrocities - and I think if you look through history you will be hard pushed to find ANY religion or teachings of a way of life that have not been the subject or root cause of atrocities against fellow man. What makes one religion differ from another though is how that religion is taught to its followers, and as we have seen there are many who twist the original words to fit their own personal agenda. Mohammed being one such person, and long after his time the likes of Abu Hamza, Osama Bin Laden and countless others. Look at the history of cults thorughout the world where they wreak havoc on communities nearby and how they brainwash their followers. All just the same with their reasoning and ideals. Fear being the key to attaining their goals. In order to fight Islamic Extremism we need to reach out to those who live in fear of retribution and show them that you CAN still follow the word of God/Allah/Buddha/Yoda without it meaning death and destruction to you or those you love. Sorry, this has really taken the original thread right off track
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| General Pershing | May 31 2010, 05:42 PM Post #68 |
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When Jesus said, "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you", he was telling people to be kind to other people because that's what you'd like them to be to you! He wasn't telling them to kill!! I don't have time to go into all this, but you've got it all very seriously mixed up. |
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 31 2010, 05:46 PM Post #69 |
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"The poor enslaved English Israelites." Winstanley, 1649 The connections between Judaism and the English character are strong - largely through the emphasis on the Jewish Bible which came with the Reformation, the Puritans and Protestantism in general. The spirit of enquiry which the combination unleashed is perhaps the single biggest development in the history of the Western intellect, and allowed for the great advances in science and thought which elevated us above the ignorant idol-worshippers of the past. Edited by Battle of Lepanto, May 31 2010, 05:49 PM.
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 31 2010, 05:47 PM Post #70 |
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(what did I press?)
Edited by Battle of Lepanto, May 31 2010, 05:48 PM.
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ANTI-JIHADIST FREE-THINKER | |
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| LeeJay | May 31 2010, 05:55 PM Post #71 |
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Mrs Cheeks. Jesus and Buddha killed nobody; Jesus and Buddha did not marry a child; Jesus and Buddha did not leave a codified legal system in order to persecute others; Jesus and Buddha did not have slaves; and Jesus and Buddha did not marry a child. Mohammed according to the Koran and the Hadiths married a child, had many wives and concubines, left a codified system to enslave non-Muslims, killed and ordered holy wars against both the Jews and Pagans, and supported the implementation of heavy taxes on Christians and Jews (for other faiths it was convert or die). Now, getting back to planet reality (meaning the 21st century) it is clear that you only have one religion which supports the implementation of harsh and brutal laws on other faiths or people who have no faith. In Somalia they stoned a young girl to death after she was raped; guess what, they did this while praying and saying "Allah akbar." Yes, you will get religous zealots in all faiths; but only one religion abides by a legalized system whereby others will be enslaved. Israel is democratic; the lands of Mecca and Medina still support stoning apostates to death and preventing women to mix openly in public. Edited by LeeJay, May 31 2010, 05:56 PM.
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| pyrus | May 31 2010, 06:03 PM Post #72 |
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well said but I don't think we can do that whilst failing to acknowledge the nature of hamas you can't tell the Muslim world that they don't have to follow the path of death and destruction, whilst at the same time sending aid to the 'Palestinians' and condemning Israel at every opportunity Israel is in an impossible situation. Instead of condemning them, we should be helping them. |
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(All about me: http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3771350/) My YouTube channel | |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 06:56 PM Post #73 |
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For Mrs. Cheeks, or anyone else who doesn't want to read the whole thing: http://www.scribd.com/doc/27156626/The-Earliest-Biography-of-Muhammad-By-Ibn-Ishaq |
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| MrsCheeks | May 31 2010, 07:13 PM Post #74 |
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That is EXACTLY my point - people will take one person's words and TWIST THEM TO THEIR OWN ADVANTAGE. That is what EXTREMISTS do. Whether they are muslim, jewish, christian or whatever - there are sadly those in this world who twist innocent words. Just like the media does with the EDL! I havent got it mixed up, believe me I have not! As far as Israel and Palestine goes - there are EQUAL wrongs on both sides and BOTH need to stop the killing and violence. Until they can put down their weapons we will NEVER achieve any semblance of hope for the people in those areas who are caught up in a holy hell. I do not condone the actions of either - the insane brainwashing of children on Palestinian childrens TV nor the killing of aid workers. Both sides are equal in their passion and belief that they are the wronged party. And both are guilty of intolerance and a lack of desire to put an end to the violence. THey have far more in common with each other than they dare acknowledge. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 07:27 PM Post #75 |
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didnt we go to war against nazis in the years 1939/45.they slaughterd the jews no end.the modern day nazis=ISLAM/SHARIA are trying again(skin a cat in different ways rutene.)fly the the flag high and give a thought for them.its no wonder they do what they do what has happenend to them. only70 years ago,not a long time is it. |
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| Tzipi5770 | May 31 2010, 07:41 PM Post #76 |
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Personally, I fly the Israeli flag because I'm Jewish and as a symbol of all the Jewish and Israeli supporters within the EDL. Just like when members of the SDL travel to EDL demos. To show that the EDL has Scottish supporters. |
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| alfred.2671 | May 31 2010, 07:42 PM Post #77 |
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People from all religions have caused atrocities over the years. But as a Christian country, we must show allegiance with Israel. After all, Jesus was a Jew. It is good that the EDL supports Israel's right to exist. It keeps the neo nazis out too. I think its great that the EDL support so many different races and religions. There is no room for racism in this day and age. |
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| General Pershing | May 31 2010, 08:24 PM Post #78 |
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This sums up the entire premise of this thread for me: |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 08:30 PM Post #79 |
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for me i have Jewish ancestry, and the bond between Ulster and Israel is second to none ! |
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 31 2010, 08:34 PM Post #80 |
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http://bigjournalism.com/pgeller/2010/05/31/the-jihad-flotilla-and-the-media-war-against-israel/ By Pamela Geller -staunch supporter of the English Defence League Today’s incident on the Gaza jihad flotilla was an act of war – but not by Israel. The tsunami of Jew-hating propaganda from the jihad-loving media has already begun. The international media, predictably, is spinning the story as if it were all Israel’s fault, saying that the IDF killed innocent civilian humanitarian workers on a flotilla headed to Gaza to bring aid to the starving people there. In reality, none of that is true. This was an act of war against Israel. The people in Gaza aren’t starving, and the “humanitarian aid workers” on the flotilla were actually Islamic jihadists who attacked the IDF first. It was a planned attack — by Hamas and the hardline Muslim groups. Hamas supporters planned an armed assault, which included the murder of captured Israeli heroes. They almost succeeded. Will you get the real story from the media? Not a chance. Before the Israeli self-defense raid even occurred, the BBC said that Israel was facing a lose-lose situation. And that is how it is playing out now. The Associated Press is reading like Al-Jazeera: "The violent takeover dealt yet another blow to Israel’s international image, already tarnished by war crimes accusations in Gaza and its 3-year-old blockade of the impoverished Palestinian territory." Of course AP doesn’t mention that the day before the raid, the “humanitarians” on the jihad flotilla were chanting: “Khaibar, Khaibar, oh Jews! The army of Muhammad will return!” Khaibar was an Arabian oasis populated by Jews. Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, stormed the oasis and massacred the Jews there and seized their land and possessions. Says Islamic scholar Robert Spencer: Thus when modern-day jihadists invoke Khaybar, they are recalling an aggressive, surprise raid by Muhammad which resulted in the final eradication of the once considerable Jewish presence in Arabia. To the jihadists, Khaybar means the destruction of the Jews and the seizure of their property by the Muslims. Today the jihadist forces want war again, and a chance to repeat the Khaibar massacre. Syrian President Bashar al Assad and Lebanese Premier Saad Hariri issued a joint statement condemning the “crime committed by Israel with this barbaric attack on defenceless civilians.” They “invite the international community to take measures as soon as possible to end Israel’s crimes, which could lead to war in the Middle East with repercussions far beyond the regional borders.” It is no accident that reality is being rewritten, and this brazen, bloody attack by Islamic jihadists is being called a humanitarian mission. The media is the front line in the impending war. It is interesting how this new war is being waged on two fronts, very much in tandem with one another. The battle has long been in the information battlespace. Guns, bombs, and bloodshed are the results of what happens in the war of ideas. Now we enter phase II. The West has been sufficiently subdued by years of relentless anti-Semitic propaganda. Now the anti-Semitic forces of jihad are going in for the kill with the tacit approval and sanction of their copywriters in the media. They’re dressing up genocide in a flotilla bow and serving it up cold. In the information battlespace, the jihadis can count on the complicity of the subdued, Islamophiliac press. They can physically attack Israeli troops and count on the corrupt media to package any act of Israeli self-defense as an aggression. Then this repackaging will lead to international condemnation, United Nations Security Council resolutions, and further delegitimization of Israel. This Jew-hating, jihad flotilla was the opening salvo in the war.....continues |
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| pyrus | May 31 2010, 08:54 PM Post #81 |
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pamela's on the ball as ever but it's not just the 'fringe media' who are battling against the impression that it was Israel in the wrong this from the telegraph: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/stephaniegutmann/100041664/gaza-peace-ship-shoot-out-is-a-win-win-for-hamas/ also, this article contains some information you won't see on the bbc or guardian websites; http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137795 oh, and to Mrs Cheeks - I don't think it's at all fair to call Israel as 'equally' in the wrong as Hamas sure, both sides think the other is in the wrong but only one makes a concerted effort to avoid civilian casualties, and only one is actively engaged in a campaign that encourages hiding behind civilians only one is sworn to the total destruction of the other, and only one has any real desire for peaceful self-determination only one is happy to cooperate on the national stage, but only one is repeatedly put in impossible situations by the international community (and especially the press) Can we blame Israel for wanting to weed out the terrorists that commit atrocities against its people? Who is really to blame when Hamas store weapons in schools, or direct operations from a hospital? Who is to blame when an unneeded "aid convoy" is sent in as a direct provocation? (What's wrong with the official channels, what's wrong with the Red cross?) Who is to blame when that "aid convoy" refuses to communicate with the authorities with anything other than curses, and which, when boarded, we discover comes equipped with weapons and a lynch mob? In part, the International Community has forced moderation on Israel. But, in part, it has the decency to moderate itself. We always hear that Israel is acting disproportionately. That's true. What's the 'proportionate' way of dealing with an enemy that is sworn to your total destruction? If Israel, with its weapons and its power, behaved in the way that Hamas does, then there would be no one left to posture for 'Palestinian independence'. We don't want Israel to act 'proportionately', but I fear that one day its hand will be forced. We need to decide which side we're on before that happens. I for one won't be cheering for the terrorists. Edited by pyrus, May 31 2010, 11:29 PM.
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(All about me: http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3771350/) My YouTube channel | |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 10:47 PM Post #82 |
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As I thought... I knew I would get to the bottom of this thread and be none the wiser. Everyone seems to have strong views on who is right, Israel or Palestine. I really cannot get off the fence. Still, push comes to shove then I know I will back Israel. |
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| pyrus | May 31 2010, 11:31 PM Post #83 |
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I can understand why some people might not be pro-Israel and might embrace the use of Israeli flags But would you condemn the flying of the 'Palestinian' flag? For me it's a terrorist symbol. Even the name 'Palestine' suggests a nation that would supplant Israel. And for those reasons I'd be proud to fly the Israeli flag simply in opposition to the flag of a would-be terrorist nation |
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(All about me: http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3771350/) My YouTube channel | |
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| benny5 | Jun 1 2010, 03:02 AM Post #84 |
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i am pro Israel, what choice did the i.d.f. have ? they offerd to take the so called aid in and check it out. the response was no. what country lets any thing in without checking it out. so you get what you get. besides there sneaky buggers they even hide in ambulances, behind schools what a bunch of cowards... thank god for the i.d.f.. first line of defense for the west. |
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| benny5 | Jun 1 2010, 03:10 AM Post #85 |
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no f**king yellow star on my arm !!! i will fly any flag i want to i'm not a slave of the f**king nazis what an insult..i dont surrender for anyone !!! no slave yellow star! thank you anyway ill just wave my flags |
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| LeeJay | Jun 1 2010, 05:19 AM Post #86 |
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MRS CHEEKS Mohammed was never innocent; you can not be innocent when you marry a child, when you order ethnic cleansing, when you support the enslavement of others by jizya and a codified law. Again Buddha and Jesus never enslaved anyone or ordered ethnic cleansing. Jesus saved the prostitute but Mohammed would have stoned her to death; of course, while being married to a child which is a little strange in my world. |
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| Deleted User | Jun 1 2010, 02:13 PM Post #87 |
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She's right... |
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| Tzipi5770 | Jun 1 2010, 02:22 PM Post #88 |
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That is my favourite song! Need to get it on my iPod... |
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| BigKev CFC | Jun 1 2010, 02:53 PM Post #89 |
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The whole reason I started this thread was to find out why the E.D.L. were flying the Israeli flag? Solidarity with the Jews is fine but am not happy about Israel for reasons already stated. That having been said, If the flag is being fown as a sign of Judeism I understand that but would never carry it myself. This is just me using my freedom of choice. As to the allegation of being patronising I am sorry I didnt know typing in capitals made you feel that way, will try to keep away from the caps lock. Anyway thanks for the healthy debate. For God, Harry and England! |
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| Deleted User | Jun 1 2010, 03:21 PM Post #90 |
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Calm down Benny. Take your medication. No-one said you were a slave of the Nazis. I didn't say anything about people wearing yellow stars on their arms. And you will not fly any flag you want to. We won't let you fly a swastika flag, for example. I don't think an EDL demo would let you fly the hammer & sickle either. In case you didn't know, there's a long history of the islamo-fascists making jews were the yellow star (Hitler was not being very original): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge http://www.debbieschlussel.com/4789/its-not-just-heim-or-the-grand-mufti-islam-odessa/ And nowadays in mainland Europe they are up to it again: http://thewestislamandsharia.blogspot.com/2010/03/marking-jews-with-yellow-star-badges.html The Nazis made homosexuals where the pink triangle. That didn't stop us from taking that sign and using it as a sign of defiance. And when the connection was made to journalists about the similarities between the nazis and the islamo-fascists, well let's say that's one conversation that journalist won't forget. If you don't think shock tactics are required, that's up to you. But at the moment the establishment is still doing a good job of painting the EDL as right-wing racists. Meanwhile islamo-fascists are driving jews out of France and Norway and Sweden. And 50% of the anti-semitic attacks in London are attributed to muslims. |
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1:13 AM Jul 11
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Feliz Navidad (Gold) created by Sarah & Delirium of the ZNR









1:13 AM Jul 11