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Israeli Flag?; What is the Affiliation to Israel
Topic Started: May 31 2010, 08:20 AM (766 Views)
BigKev CFC
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I am very interested in the EDL and all it stands for but cannot understand the use of the Israeli flag? I understand that Israel are in direct conflict with all muslim cultures, but as a former country of terrorists who thought nothing of killing British troops in palestine I cannot and will not affilliate myself to that flag! So my dilema begins can anyone help with this matter?
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General Pershing
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For me, it's pretty simple. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I am 100% behind Israel and I support the right of Israel to exist.

Palestinians = Hamas loving terrorists. The Islamic world would love nothing better than death to Islrael. I would proudly fly the Israeli flag!
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BigKev CFC
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but to the same end the friend of my enemy is my enemy and so I speak for myself and the families of many patriotic British servicemen killed and executed by this hatred run establishment! also using your simply eulogy that would make hamas my friend! I think not Brother! sorry but you arguement does not work for me as with life, feelings are much more complicated.
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israel doesn't threaten my way of life in my own country. i do not care what they may of done in the past. islam is a real danger to us now.
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General Pershing
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Kev, the CFC, is that Glasgow Celtic Football Club?
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BigKev CFC
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Israel totally destroyed my families life in MY OWN country, so I am sorry but I DO care!
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BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 08:47 AM
but to the same end the friend of my enemy is my enemy and so I speak for myself and the families of many patriotic British servicemen killed and executed by this hatred run establishment! also using your simply eulogy that would make hamas my friend! I think not Brother! sorry but you arguement does not work for me as with life, feelings are much more complicated.
Do you consider Germany to be an ally now? France? Spain? Italy? We fought them once.
ANTI-JIHADIST FREE-THINKER
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BigKev CFC
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No i am Orange and proud.
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BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 08:51 AM
Israel totally destroyed my families life in MY OWN country, so I am sorry but I DO care!
May I ask how?
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BigKev CFC
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Yes we did but conventional war is different to terrorist insurgence there is no pride to dying in a far flung outpost in a war that you do not believe in or even understand. I would proudly lay down my life for my country.
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BigKev CFC
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We lost a family member in the then country of Palestine and whilst I understand the Jewish mind set after years of persecution, I still do not understand why they chose conflict and still view Israel as a terrorist state.
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BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 08:51 AM
Israel totally destroyed my families life in MY OWN country, so I am sorry but I DO care!
i am sorry for that, but there are probably people here that don't like blacks, indians or gays but that is put aside for the greater good, to unite against a common enemy.
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BigKev CFC
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TV175 is that a series 2?
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BigKev CFC
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But if you fly the cross of St George you are A patriot and have my complete respect, I just do not agree with the affilliation to a foreign flag after all this is the ENGLISH defence league is it not?
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General Pershing
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Exactly. People need to wake up and smell the stink! We need to learn to put our differences to the side and unite against Islam. Islam is a threat to our national security, our very identity as a United Kingdom!

The EDL is made up of people with mixed opinions. There are others here who share your views on Israel. We are a very mixed bunch so don't be put off joining the EDL because some of us support Israel. Some suport Celtic to :)

If you are against Militant Islam then this is the group who are standing up against it! Join us and put your differences to the side, like many here have already learned to do.
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BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 09:01 AM
We lost a family member in the then country of Palestine and whilst I understand the Jewish mind set after years of persecution, I still do not understand why they chose conflict and still view Israel as a terrorist state.
I sympathise. Perhaps they chose conflict after all those years of persecution you mention. After Britain promised to assist in the establishment of a Jewish State in Palestine (not a country but a protectorate since the end of WWI) we went back on our word (Balfour Declaration). In an attempt to maintain our own interests amongst Arab states Britain ended up, in my view, heaping more misery on people who had just limped out of death camps and who had no homes to go to, no country to call their own. I think we did the wrong thing.
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BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 09:03 AM
TV175 is that a series 2?
Series 3....but it is no more. I'm left with a Primavera with a 185 kit. Very fast, but small frame.
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General Pershing
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TV175
May 31 2010, 09:08 AM
BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 09:01 AM
We lost a family member in the then country of Palestine and whilst I understand the Jewish mind set after years of persecution, I still do not understand why they chose conflict and still view Israel as a terrorist state.
I sympathise. Perhaps they chose conflict after all those years of persecution you mention. After Britain promised to assist in the establishment of a Jewish State in Palestine (not a country but a protectorate since the end of WWI) we went back on our word (Balfour Declaration). In an attempt to maintain our own interests amongst Arab states Britain ended up, in my view, heaping more misery on people who had just limped out of death camps and who had no homes to go to, no country to call their own. I think we did the wrong thing.
I agree, others do not. Like everything in life.

If you agree that Islam is a problem, if you appreciate the scale of the threat, then that's really all that should matter. Join us, come to a demo and you'll see there is a really welcoming atmosphere amongt a huge vairety of people from all walks of life and with many different views and opinions. EDL are against militant Islam, that's it. So are you with us?
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We also have a Jewish Division and a number of them join us on Demo's

As difficult as it is, sometimes you just got to accept that what happened in the past is exactly that and if any of us are to move forward we have got to stop letting the past have such a negative effect on our future imho.

Israel has a lot of skeletons in its closet but the here and now is what concerns us and right here and now they are our allies, regardless of what has gone on before.

Of course you don't have to accept that, that is your choice but if you agree with what the EDL stand for and want to join us in our crusade, you are going to have to swallow it
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Kafir
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

15 dead as Israeli troops storm the Flotilla from Turkey.

ANTI-JIHADIST FREE-THINKER
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General Pershing
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Well, they were warned to stay out of Israeli waters! These ships were filled with aid for Hamas terrorists. Israel even offered to deliver the aid on their behalf but have said all along there is a hidden agenda from these boats (to supply aid to Hamas terrorists).

If the aid was intended for innocent Palesitnians then why didn't they heed Israeli warnings and stay out of their waters? Why didn't they allow Israel to deliver the aid to Palestine directly?

I'm with Israel on this, 100%. They were well warned.
Edited by General Pershing, May 31 2010, 09:24 AM.
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BigKev CFC
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Thank you Brothers I will be proud to join you and within this forum you have just proved that this is indeed a collection of Intelligent people with Intelligent answers, not just Fascist bootboys, it seems I have found my niche, many thanks lads.
For god, Harry & St George!
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General Black Jack Pershing
May 31 2010, 09:19 AM
Well, they were warned to stay out of Israeli waters! These ships were filled with aid for Hamas terrorists.
International waters, apparently. I do hope Cherie Blair's sister (Lauren Booth) is unhurt. ;)
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BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 09:22 AM
Thank you Brothers I will be proud to join you and within this forum you have just proved that this is indeed a collection of Intelligent people with Intelligent answers, not just Fascist bootboys, it seems I have found my niche, many thanks lads.
For god, Harry & St George!
welcome to the forum mate. your in the right place. enjoy.
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General Pershing
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BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 09:22 AM
Thank you Brothers I will be proud to join you and within this forum you have just proved that this is indeed a collection of Intelligent people with Intelligent answers, not just Fascist bootboys, it seems I have found my niche, many thanks lads.
For god, Harry & St George!
Good man, welcome!! It takes maturity to put your differences to the side for the greater cause. Hope to see you at a demo sometime.
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BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 09:22 AM
Thank you Brothers I will be proud to join you and within this forum you have just proved that this is indeed a collection of Intelligent people with Intelligent answers, not just Fascist bootboys, it seems I have found my niche, many thanks lads.
For god, Harry & St George!
Great.

(A further thought: Nation states aren't often born peacefully.)

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TV175
May 31 2010, 09:14 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

15 dead as Israeli troops storm the Flotilla from Turkey.

And the unelected faceless beurocrats at the EU are plotting to give Turkey entrance to all of our lands.............A direct route straight from the middle east !

Mad b*stards.
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BigKev CFC
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TV175 mines a cutdown custom P200 by the late great Pete Robinson R.I.P.
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BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 09:22 AM
Thank you Brothers I will be proud to join you and within this forum you have just proved that this is indeed a collection of Intelligent people with Intelligent answers, not just Fascist bootboys, it seems I have found my niche, many thanks lads.
For god, Harry & St George!
Welcome on board :)
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BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 09:33 AM
TV175 mines a cutdown custom P200 by the late great Pete Robinson R.I.P.
good to have another scooterist on here, theres a few others. iv'e got a px200 disc with a malossi 210 conversion. a kegra special.
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i didnt know pete robinson was dead?
hows your pal jeremy howlett filler :D
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TBH, I think its a tricky situation and I dont like to comment on it becuase I dont know the full story but the way I see it is they're both as bad as each other. Israel is always too heavy handed in my opinion but at the same time its only been in responce to palistinian attacks. I agree with the whole 'State of Israel' and it had to be somewhere, just a shame the palistinians were also there. I dont think either side has the moral highground.
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Idjut Bungmewonga
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Hamas has been mentioned a few times here, this terrorist organisation does not represent all Palestinians, Hamas siezed power in a murderous military coup which involved killing their rivals in the secular Fatah, I recall at one stage these scumbags were looking for a Fatah politician and went to his flat to kill him, he was'nt there so they threw his kid out of the window to its death.
I find it curious that the left who usually have a history of condemning military coups are strangely silent on this one...
Winston Churchill on Islam ; ' The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world....
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Hamas actually won the 2006 election with a landslide 76 out of 132 seats in the 2006 Palestinian elections, with Fatah winning only 43.
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General Pershing
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Which pretty much sums it up for me really. Palestine is hoaching with low life terrorist scum. Anyone who supports Hamas is a dirty, filthy, terrorist!
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the lass with the israel flag was the mother of the kids in the pics i think? she had one in a pram as well!
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MrsCheeks
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TV175
 
I sympathise. Perhaps they chose conflict after all those years of persecution you mention. After Britain promised to assist in the establishment of a Jewish State in Palestine (not a country but a protectorate since the end of WWI) we went back on our word (Balfour Declaration). In an attempt to maintain our own interests amongst Arab states Britain ended up, in my view, heaping more misery on people who had just limped out of death camps and who had no homes to go to, no country to call their own. I think we did the wrong thing.


That's pretty much the way I feel - but for me it's a bit different as my father knew Yasser Arafat so I guess technically I am related to a terrorist sympathiser LOL :P

Here's a potted history of the land itself:

Palestine has been settled continuously for tens of thousands of years. Fossil remains have been found of Homo Erectus, Neanderthal and transitional types between Neanderthal and modern man. Archeologists have found hybrid Emmer wheat at Jericho dating from before 8,000 B.C., making it one of the oldest sites of agricultural activity in the world. Amorites, Canaanites, and other Semitic peoples related to the Phoenicians of Tyre entered the area about 2000 B.C. The area became known as the Land of Canaan.

The archeological record indicates that the Jewish people evolved out of native Cana'anite peoples and invading tribes. Some time between about 1800 and 1500 B.C., it is thought that a Semitic people called Hebrews (hapiru) left Mesopotamia and settled in Canaan. Canaan was settled by different tribes including Semitic peoples, Hittites, and later Philistines, peoples of the sea who are thought to have arrived from Mycenae, or to be part of the ancient Greek peoples that also settled Mycenae.


The site I read that on is very interesting and whilst it doesnt give us the answers to today's conflict, it gives an understanding of how the land itself has evolved and changed - and the outside influences that have shaped it's volatile future. It is a land that hsers its history with BOTH Jews and Muslims ... Mulsims having been a spinter faction of the religion, much like our own Baptitst and Methodists who are splintered from the Protestant Faith.

http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm

When all is said and done, IMO we should be wary of forging an alliance with one OR the other as they are both as volatile as the other and BOTH share equal blame on the terrible acts that have occuredin the 20th and now 21st centuries.


Stick to the main agenda and dont get sidetracked - NO to Militant Islam in the UK.
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Good Knight
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I'm not anti-Israel but We should only fly ARE FLAG.
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MrsCheeks
May 31 2010, 11:17 AM
It is a land that hsers its history with BOTH Jews and Muslims.
Islam didn't exist until 1400 years ago. It began as a small cult of death, then quickly spread due to it's well known 'convert or die' policy - which is still enforced to this day.

Here's my position on Isreal...
http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/2503448/1/?x=35
http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/single/?p=981557&t=3231600
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=geert+wilders+warning+to+america
... I fully support them in their defence against the Islamist's.
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I am also in 2 minds about the use of the Israeli flag. My thoughts for what they are worth:

1) The question of Israel's legitimacy etc is an unwinnable argument for both sides from what I can see. They both make strong (and weak) arguments. To an extent I don't think the EDL should be getting involved in this kind of "politics" as per the stated aim.

2) I think of Israel to some extent as the canary in the mine. If Israel goes it won't only be the loss of Israel to consider. It will be a huge victory for Islam against the West and therefore secular society too.

3) It makes sense that British Jews should be represented in the EDL for obvious reasons. However, the Israeli flag is just that, the Israeli flag. It would be better if the EDL Jews would use a different symbol that represents Jews or even British Jews.

4) Etc..............

Many more arguments for and against the use of the Israeli flag but I have given three which I think is enough to highlight the fact that its not a simple argument. Nothing to do with Israel ever is.

In summary, I think it would be better if a different symbol of Judaism was used that ticked all the right boxes and less of the wrong ones.
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BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 09:06 AM
But if you fly the cross of St George you are A patriot and have my complete respect, I just do not agree with the affilliation to a foreign flag after all this is the ENGLISH defence league is it not?
First of all, don't come here patronising members. We have Jewish members, who see Israel as a state for Jews, Muslims hate them, and call for their 2nd holocaust. Israel, like England is under siege. Fighting a battle for their safety of children and what not. As Englishmen we should support all those around the world who fight Islamic extremism. By flying their flag we're showing unity, that we know what the enemy is doing to them too.
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clee39
May 31 2010, 10:58 AM
the lass with the israel flag was the mother of the kids in the pics i think? she had one in a pram as well!
yes clee 39 you are right
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SpireiteEDL
May 31 2010, 10:16 AM
Israel is always too heavy handed in my opinion, but at the same time its only been in responce to palistinian attacks.
If we had Islam as bad as they do, I think that we would be just as heavy handed. If not, we will probably end up like Sweden is; bending over and letting them do as they wish... We will see in around 20 to 30 years...

Muslim Birth-rates in the UK...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQELHJx8Vf0
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TheEnglishman
May 31 2010, 12:05 PM
BigKev CFC
May 31 2010, 09:06 AM
But if you fly the cross of St George you are A patriot and have my complete respect, I just do not agree with the affilliation to a foreign flag after all this is the ENGLISH defence league is it not?
First of all, don't come here patronising members. We have Jewish members, who see Israel as a state for Jews, Muslims hate them, and call for their 2nd holocaust. Israel, like England is under siege. Fighting a battle for their safety of children and what not. As Englishmen we should support all those around the world who fight Islamic extremism. By flying their flag we're showing unity, that we know what the enemy is doing to them too.
I don't see how he was being patronising. He was making an argument and putting across his point.

Or is it only OK to criticise Islam here?

He has never said he has a problem with Jews, just with the EDL supporting the Jewish state. I think he makes some valid point.

Incidentally I am not anti-Israel, but I am pro-free speech on these boards. Haven't made my mind up about Israel and I doubt I ever will. I do know though that Israel is on my side against Islamic Extremism and isn't trying to impose the Torah on me.
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I'm not sure that that it is necessarily the israeli flag that people want to fly. What many I know want to do is assert solidarity with the jews. The easiest way to do that is to fly the israeli flag. I am edging towards suggesting that at least some people carry placards of the yellow star. The people of Britain seem to be blind to the hatred of muslims for jews. Many educated people think it comes down to the palestine/israel question. It doesn't.

I saw a report on the BBC last year that said that the number of anti-semitic attacks in London was at an all-time high. And in 50% of cases the attacker was identfied as a muslim or as a north african.

We need to make it clear we are protesting about the rising threat from islamo-fascism. It might be better to steer clear of the israeli flat. I will point this out to the Jewish Division. They are not the only people who are carrying Israeli flags, so even if they decide to use some other symbol, it doen't mean everyone will. Some people really do identify with the Israeli cause, and are against the Palestinians and the arab states who have perpetuated the problems in that area in order to destroy Israel entirely.
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Homo Sapien
May 31 2010, 12:20 PM
I'm not sure that that it is necessarily the israeli flag that people want to fly. What many I know want to do is assert solidarity with the jews. The easiest way to do that is to fly the israeli flag. I am edging towards suggesting that at least some people carry placards of the yellow star. The people of Britain seem to be blind to the hatred of muslims for jews. Many educated people think it comes down to the palestine/israel question. It doesn't.

I saw a report on the BBC last year that said that the number of anti-semitic attacks in London was at an all-time high. And in 50% of cases the attacker was identfied as a muslim or as a north african.

We need to make it clear we are protesting about the rising threat from islamo-fascism. It might be better to steer clear of the israeli flat. I will point this out to the Jewish Division. They are not the only people who are carrying Israeli flags, so even if they decide to use some other symbol, it doen't mean everyone will. Some people really do identify with the Israeli cause, and are against the Palestinians and the arab states who have perpetuated the problems in that area in order to destroy Israel entirely.
Exactly
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Homo Sapien
May 31 2010, 12:20 PM
I saw a report on the BBC last year that said that the number of anti-semitic attacks in London was at an all-time high. And in 50% of cases the attacker was identfied as a muslim or as a north african.
Just to give people an understanding of North Africa:

Posted Image

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Africa

Jo's - Nigeria, Africa
WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT
http://www.anglicandioceseofjos.org/dogo.html
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TV175
May 31 2010, 09:14 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

15 dead as Israeli troops storm the Flotilla from Turkey.

When it comes do dealing with islamists the israelis/mosad have it sussed.I see the leftys are out denouncing the raiding of this ship that might i add was carrying weapons?I didnt realise weapons were part of humanatarian aid?
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LeeJay
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I think the Israeli flag is positive from one point of view.

In the past the National Front and other organizations were anti-Jewish.

If the EDL is seen with the flag of St. George and the flag of Israel; then in the mindset of many it is clear evidence that the EDL is concerned about protecting the British way of life and it is not based on far-right principles.

I myself would only carry the flag of St. George but I have no problems with standing next to the flag of Israel because Israel is a democratic nation which is surrounded by despotic nations.

Also, please remember that around 18 per cent of the population of Israel is Muslim and not all Muslims are anti-Israel because many secular Muslims are also worried about despotism and Islamic sharia law.

The Muslim Bedouin also fight in the Israeli Defence Force and the same applies to members of the Druze community.

However, this is getting away from the topic.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8303634.stm

Therefore, from a publicity point of view the Star of David is not so bad and it shows you the openess of the EDL.
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Kafir
DFW
May 31 2010, 12:42 PM
TV175
May 31 2010, 09:14 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

15 dead as Israeli troops storm the Flotilla from Turkey.

When it comes do dealing with islamists the israelis/mosad have it sussed.I see the leftys are out denouncing the raiding of this ship that might i add was carrying weapons?I didnt realise weapons were part of humanatarian aid?
All part of the propaganda war. There'll be trouble with a now re-armed Hezbollah soon. Scuds missiles n'all.
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