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| Just a thought. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 30 2010, 09:43 PM (353 Views) | |
| happy | May 30 2010, 09:43 PM Post #1 |
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The main people who will help in fighting Islamic extremism in my eyes are the moderate Muslims. They are the ones who if they back anti extremist campaigns will really have a large influence (in my opinion). Therefore, is it really appropriate that large sections of our members sing 'We all hate Muslims' that aren't racist, but are still surely going to actually discourage the moderate Muslims in joining our cause? I can't help but feel this campaign has the capacity to do great things but at the same time it risks being jeopardised and even being counter productive. |
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| Deleted User | May 30 2010, 09:46 PM Post #2 |
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I've never heard anybody sing 'we hate all muslims', do you have any evidence of this? I think the 'moderates' are more scared of speaking out against the radicals than we are. They would be accused of being apostates and be killed. |
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| happy | May 30 2010, 09:49 PM Post #3 |
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I apologise for the site, but http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/28/english-defence-league-guardian-investigation 3 minutes in- sounds pretty loud. I just think in order to combat the extreme Muslims we need to say to the other Muslims, we are here with you, we support you and will help you resist the extreme few. |
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| Deleted User | May 30 2010, 09:52 PM Post #4 |
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it won,t work..... a muslim will not turn on another muslim thats why thay dont do nothing. |
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| happy | May 30 2010, 09:54 PM Post #5 |
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I think that's very unfair, as I think the majority of Muslims do not want terrorism anywhere near the UK, and I would suggest that saying otherwise is going to scare people away who may support you... |
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| Deleted User | May 30 2010, 09:54 PM Post #6 |
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troll radars up- |
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| Deleted User | May 30 2010, 09:56 PM Post #7 |
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My opinion: If moderate Muslims have never come out and denounced the extremists, I cannot see them joining a group who are labelled racist, footy hooligans, knuckledraggers etc. The people who come on here claiming they are a moderate Muslim have been given a fair crack of the whip in my eyes. You wouldn`t get the same deal off many other forums. |
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| happy | May 30 2010, 09:58 PM Post #8 |
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This is the problem you are going to have man. I am anti extreme Islam, really, I despise it. I am also very much anti racism, and anti discriminating against religious beliefs, therefore I would back the EDL in preventing extreme islam, yet when I start to question why you would also bring normal Muslims in to it I get accused of trolling? I am genuinely undecided on the EDL as whether they are the right group for me and comments like that don't help your cause. |
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| happy | May 30 2010, 09:59 PM Post #9 |
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I most definitely read about an Islamic protest in Birmingham against extreme Islam that got well over 10,000 people. |
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| Deleted User | May 30 2010, 10:00 PM Post #10 |
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No offence but that is a naive view, muslims have far more in common with other muslims, no matter what. |
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| The Lion of Vienna | May 30 2010, 10:01 PM Post #11 |
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| happy | May 30 2010, 10:01 PM Post #12 |
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The majority of Muslims I seem to know are not at all pro terrorist, however maybe the case is different down south. |
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| Deleted User | May 30 2010, 10:01 PM Post #13 |
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wheres the link, i read the moon was made of green cheese. |
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| Deleted User | May 30 2010, 10:03 PM Post #14 |
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how many moderate Muslims are in this country compared to Islamic extremists,surely they know who the extremists are and where they practice there hate...it aint rocket science is it. |
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| Deleted User | May 30 2010, 10:04 PM Post #15 |
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That isn't what I said. |
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| Deleted User | May 30 2010, 10:07 PM Post #16 |
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HS will be here in a minute he'll be twitching thinking somethings not right. |
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| MrsCheeks | May 30 2010, 10:09 PM Post #17 |
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I can see where Happy is coming from - muslim BOMBERS off our streets, absolutely. No surrender to the Taliban. Hell yeah. But it is IMO not going to do the EDL any favours if we make the mistake of tarring all muslims with the same brush. Isnt that just what the media are doing with us as an organisation? To say that muslims all have more in common with each other is - again IMO - wrong. Look at what happened the other day in Lahore, where moderate mulsims were slaughterd just for wanting to live a modreate and peaful existence. The so-called muslims who brutally attacked them, for being peaceful, were not their kindred spirits. WE have more in common with those poor souls ![]() We need to rise above it, we need to make sure we do not give any cause for people to brand us racist and above all we do need to show the moderate muslims that we are their friends - not their foe. So liong as we do that, we will continue to step further forward with success
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| General Pershing | May 30 2010, 10:10 PM Post #18 |
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Happy, I can smell a troll at a million miles! Why are you really here? |
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| WakeupEngland | May 30 2010, 10:17 PM Post #19 |
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Not sure that I agree with some of the things mentioned on this thread but I certainly agree we could do without folks singing ''We all hate Muslims". This is just the sort of thing the Press like to get hold of and makes our claim to be non-racist look rather weak. Having said that , how do you stop it ?? Answers on a post-card please. |
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| Deleted User | May 30 2010, 10:17 PM Post #20 |
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Right with you, it's sometimes like living in a paralell universe seeing these threads time after time from the 'enlightened'. |
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| General Pershing | May 30 2010, 10:20 PM Post #21 |
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If anyone thinks 'moderate Muslims' would EVER side with the EDL then they're seriously deluded! ex-Muslim's yes, 'moderate Muslims' NO CHANCE. Where were the moderate Muslims when extremists blew up London underground? Where were their protests? Where were the Moderate Mulsims defending their faith??????
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| Deleted User | May 30 2010, 10:22 PM Post #22 |
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wasnt there a post earlier bout abdul been forced to move due to local muslims not liking him been EDL. theyre a tolerant lot. doesnt HS live in a predominantly muslim area and fear for his life? |
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| General Pershing | May 30 2010, 10:25 PM Post #23 |
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Abdul is not a moderate Muslim. He's an EX-MUSLIM!! HUGE DIFFERENCE!! |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 01:04 AM Post #24 |
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Thing is every chance has been and is still afforded to moderate muslims to speak out. If they do and when they do I will back them all the way as will the EDL I am positive. I have a freind who is very anti extreamism and sharia law yet a muslim, he backs the princibles of the EDL but as yet is too scared to come to a demo ( I hope to change that ). Thing is why is he scared, in a very sparse area of other muslims? That I cannot answer I can only make a educated guess, one that is simple, he would be ostrosized for doing it. Extreamists maybe a minority but the fear they have on others is far reaching and almost total in control. If they all came out together in numbers maybe, but I liken it to our demos, if all members hit the streets the world would take note but we still havent passed 2kish on any given demo. So a little slack for now because I do believe as our numbers grow, their fear will subside. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 01:13 AM Post #25 |
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There are many moderate muslims, but the problem is, in areas like Alum Rock, most of the younger generation there are anti-white, anti-non muslim and probably sympathize with Islamic terrorist groups. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 01:30 AM Post #26 |
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Maybe, but again thats a minority compared the the rest of the country, not one to be in any way ignored but. I also think there is a mob or to put it blunt football style mentality, like that of the 70's early 80's where no matter you defend your turf. Half these young muslims have no idea why they are fighting us they do so as they are told we are the enemy and you must defend your turf. They believe we hate them full stop. Drummed up by press uaf and swp frenzies. If they took some time out and looked at it many would probably agree with us as many like a drink smoke and a wager..and of course a bunk up so my guess is many would rather our freedom than sharia! That is just my opinion obviously but it is worth looking at I believe. So how do we stop the hate? Thats much harder to answer and I am not sure I can. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 01:31 AM Post #27 |
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Majority didn't condemn 9/11, Madrid Bombings, Beslan school siege and 7/7 How the f**k do you think we'll get them to support us? |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 02:12 AM Post #28 |
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I never said we could I said they may not support sharia either. I do believe as said they are too scared to stand up, you would be suprised at what terror can do to people. I have witnessed it, small but deadly scares the sihite out of people, NI a prime example. Its not a new concept it has been going on for years. Fear and intimidation is worth a batalion of men, if that wasnt the case then how would gangs exist, how would the mafia exist, how did and do the ira exist ect ect. I do not back or make excuses, I abhore what happened but I have seen what fear does to people. That said we in the EDL are lions, a different breed, I dont do fear I tackle it and so do many but not everyone is like that and that we must accept. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 03:25 AM Post #29 |
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Clee, I hope the person you speak of is okay? He is not in any danger is he? If so, there are organisations which can help him if he needs a safe haven. Ooops! I meant to add, maybe we can have a sticky thread somewhere on the board with contact information on associations that deal specifically with helping people who are in danger in some way to do with Islam (ie violence, forced marriages, at risk, threatened honour killing, and apostasy (leaving islam) etc). I have spoken to a couple of the people myself. They know only too well the risks which some people within Islam are facing. |
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| dunkie | May 31 2010, 03:26 AM Post #30 |
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Well put HOEssex, all three comments are spot on. And fear is a very commanding power, especially as many of these folk have families (UK and overseas) that could suffer reprisals if they went out in support of the EDL or even other demonstrations against the extremists. Having seen the way violent islamists react, its 100 times more severe than how we 'non muslims' respond to threats or attacks, they go beserk. That same violence can quickly turn on their own who don't tow the line, such as those less violent muslim sects like the Ahmadi's. Even if an individual may want to make that big step, he would worry about his family getting acid thrown in their face. I don't think the majority of muslim familes, or elders want full blown Sharia courts or extremists in their lives, they just have a tough path trying to deflect it. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 03:29 AM Post #31 |
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![]() This is my view, not the EDL's It's common knowledge that Islam wants to grow and take over societies, destroying their cultures and subjecting its people to Sharia Law and all the horrors that go with it, so if you subscribe to that system of belief then you're part of it. There is no place for a mythical moderate Islam within Islam, your are either for it or against it, events around the world and for the last 1500 years should show you this at least. A Muslim that is against the Stoning and beheading of Adulterers and Homosexuals is like a Nazi against the persecution and gassing of Jews, because it is at the very core of their beliefs. So if the so called moderate Muslims subscribe to that Ideology whilst thinking they can water it down into something less, they are greatly mistaken. Those Muslims that left Islam did so because they understood this. Do you think the Jews would be happy to see an increasing number of moderate Nazis moving to Israel? Do you think if Israel opened its boarders to the moderate Muslims it would have less problems? If 50 percent of the UK's population was Moderate Muslims do you think life would go on as usual for the other 50 percent? Islam is an ideology that is counter to everything we believe in here in the West. We are heading towards dark dark times my friends, and good people on both sides need to examine their ideas and beliefs to decide where they stand on this. Islam is what it is and that's it, if you subscribe to Islam, yet think you can make it into something it's not then you are an enemy of Islam, and there are Islamic Laws ready to execute you when the time is right and that time will come if it's not opposed now. So in my humble opinion on this issue, you are either for Islam or against it. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 04:16 AM Post #32 |
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It all sounds so easy peasy, expecting people to publicly stand up against Islam. Realistically it isn't though. The huge build up of Islamic communities in this country and abroad has in fact made it more difficult for people to leave or stand up against radical Islam. We have all witnessed how quickly Islamic communities have grown, making it a powerful hub. Towns now don't usually have one mosque, there will most likely be more than one mosque (as we well know ). The more mosques erected the more tight knit and powerful they become, and the more difficult it will be for people to leave, speak out, denounce terrorism and aggressive, radical preaching (wahhabi for instance) etc.Some people who actually have spoken out, or leave Islam, or convert (apostasy), do end up having to leave their community - not always for their own safety alone but for the safety of their family members too. Leaving Islam; speaking out; or siding with EDL can most likely result in being threatened and harrassed, even aggressively, and worse. So, it is not so cut and dried as some people imagine. Wish it was. It is a huge step for any muslim to undertake. The backlash against his or her family members is a very real possibility. Pressure can be put on the family members by the Iman of the mosque, or other mosque members, or members in the community, as well as the possibility of pressure/threats from relatives or friends back in their family's home country, ie Pakistan etc. Apostasy and Honour Killings are real, and the threat is far greater than we can ever imagine. 1,000's of Honour Killings take place each year - some are arranged here and abroad, and the deathly deed carried out here, or the victim is taken back to another country, unaware of their fate. People who are brave enough to stand by EDL do take a huge risk. Remember, Islam, is no ordinary passive loving understanding cult/religion we are dealing with - it is one of the most vicious and cruel. Young women, men and children have been killed for less! A small reminder of the wrath of Islam (imo Honour is the wrong word for such barbarism): Honour/Honor Killing: Islam's Gruesome Gallery |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 07:04 AM Post #33 |
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![]() Your Right fern, I can only imagine how difficult it is to be a Muslim and speak out against Islam, but it has to be remembered that the people giving them the problem are the so called moderate practicing Muslims not the extremists. If a Muslim girl has a Christian boyfriend, who do you think is more likely to kill her, A Muslim extremist or one of her own family? I think the government and other organisations should help those who want to leave Islam en masse, to change their names and relocate, and anyone who threatens them should be removed from this country and sent back to the s**tholes they couldn't wait to get out of. A Muslim can either support the ideology of Islam or leave it, not wish it could change into something it's not. i.e. a true " religion of peace" and then call themselves moderate Muslims. If Islam was a religion and ideology that really taught peace and love for mankind I would be the first join it. The sooner those Muslims who don't believe in this so called religion of peace are helped to leave it the better it is for both us and them. This I think is the only way this situation could resolve itself without the kind of war we saw in the former Yugoslavia happening all over Europe at sometime in the future. And believe me, war will come, because Islam and any other type of system or religion cannot peacefully coexist in the same space. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 07:26 AM Post #34 |
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That is a shocking list and no doubt just a small list of some of the those that we in the west are aware of. It would be a good idea I think to get some placards made up with these pictures on. Press love placards and I think it would certainly draw some welcome attention toward 'honour killings'. Something that the press are reluctant to really get involved in. I think this is one part of this cruel and disgusting death cult that we should be highlighting. Edit: Several of these women's so called 'dishonour' was embracing the western culture "being too westernised" and others it was simply because their parents (almost always the male relatives) didn't agree with their choice of partner. I really think we should champion this. I would gladly carry a big placard with all their faces on at a demo. Maybe hand out some leaflets if we could get some knocked up. Anything to draw more attention toward these wicked acts. |
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| General Pershing | May 31 2010, 08:30 AM Post #35 |
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100% agree. Moderates will never side with the EDL, besides, they are totally irrelevant. Our time and effort would be far better spent trying to recruit from the Hindu, Sikh, Jewish, Feminist, Christian, Gay and EX-Muslim population. These are the people who'll be affected by continued Islamisation and these are the people who just might side with EDL. Anyone who thinks a Muslim (moderate or otherwise) would ever side with the EDL is really living in cloud cuckoo land. Edited by General Pershing, May 31 2010, 08:35 AM.
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 01:49 PM Post #36 |
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Muslim communities have spent a great deal of time over the last few years, with the help of our dhimmi government, harnessing yet more of their foot soldiers via many different channels. One is brainwashing and preparing their next generation of muslims, very young children, in their Islamic Faith Schools and mosques. Not content with that, they have now infiltrated our own school curriculum, which in effect embraces their religion, as well as a new initiative they have named Interfaith, under the umberella of Interfaith they have set-up specific groups of people, usually converts themselves, who are a driving force set out to gain more recruits through schools and meetings with other faiths, encouraging non-muslims to convert to Islam. Good idea Scott, re adding the pics of some of the victims of Honour Killings. Reaching out to those inside Islam won't ever be easy, Prime example is the outspoken Geert Wilders, a very brave man, and then there is Geller at Atlas Shrugs and Spencer at Jihadwatch, between them, rented advertising space on some of the buses in the USA with a flyer (below). Accusations of bigotry, racism and anti-muslim are all but some of witterings from the leftwing MSM this week, led by the nose by affiliates such as the front for The Muslim Brotherhood such as CAIR and their radical islamic cohorts. Oh the tangled web of Islam! Atlas Shrugs words regarding the flyer above: One of the first projects that we’ve been working on for Stop the Islamization of America and the Freedom Defense Initiative organization that I started with Robert Spencer was a bus campaign to counter the dawah campaign of the Muslim Brotherhood. For those of you curious as to why we created and organized a bus campaign to offer resources to Muslims who are desperate to leave Islam, I shall explain. The bus campaigns that Muslim Brotherhood groups (CAIR, ICNA, ISNA) were sponsoring across the country inviting conversion to Islam (dawah) were deceptive and injurious. It……….. So I developed the above bus ad with the help of the enormously talented Big Fur Hat to roll out nationwide, kicking off with South Florida. Our pro-freedom campaign rolled out today on the following buses all over Miami — Route 3 (Biscayne Blvd and US1), Route 88 (Kendall Drive SW 88th Street, from the Dade and North Metro Rail station to SW 80th street)), Route 40 (Bird Road SW 40th Street), Route L (Hialeah along 79th Street Causeway, Collins Avenue to Miami Beach Convention Center), Route E (Collins Avenue), Route 11 (FIU Bus terminal to FIU South campus, West Flagler street ends at Government center Metro station) — split between curb side and street side. |
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| Karif-Chris | May 31 2010, 05:15 PM Post #37 |
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So how do you think islam has spread around the globe so fast, there will only be a few "extremists" but when they have bread or emigrated in enough numbers they wipe out everything that was there in the 1st place, look at history, it give a clear insight into what will happen to any county that muslims move to |
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| dunkie | May 31 2010, 05:24 PM Post #38 |
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Great idea. Its pathetic how our media avoid this problem and don't highlight it, fukkin crime to be honest. Imagine in reverse if there was an extreme christian sect that was killing members who didn't conform or meet their 'rules', front page news, every paper, every TV station. Yet they hide these stories....Do journalists fear they could be attacked? Editor control? Worried about people protesting outside their offices? Honour killings are much more widespread than anyone knows, media helps hide this for whatever reason. Even here in Texas, right next to my office, 2 young girls left bleeding for an hour, alive after their father shot them for becomeing too westernized. As least the local Imam denounced their deaths somewhat. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/religion/stories/011208dnmethonorkillings.224909b.html As I'm beginning to be educated by forum members (Ruby/Road Hog others), the problem in the UK has obviously grown far worse than when I grew up there, and in the US, there does not seem to be the depth of extremist infiltration yet for obvious reasons. As I've mentioned before, I have several good muslim friends, play cricket with them and have vibrant discussions about islam's threat, how they treat women etc. I even travel with work with this one guy, we go out in the evenings, he doesn't drink but smokes, I get sh*tty drunk and he hangs with me in bars etc, debating lots of stuff, he's a riot. We even go on websites with him trying to pick a wife. Point is, perhaps where fear is less, moderation is possible, where fear is high, less so. Either way, in my opinion, to put yourself out there as 100% against Islam, will not give you any chance of atttracting brave moderates or grow your membership into the general community. Just my opinion, may not be that of the EDL or the current plan of the EDL, your choice obviously. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 05:31 PM Post #39 |
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Having kept up to date with USA politics for a long while now, soz, but I have to totally disagree with you on this. Usa has a major problem, like us, with extremism and the expansionism of Islam:
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| dunkie | May 31 2010, 05:37 PM Post #40 |
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Well, with my own eyes, I don't see it here at the levels described by forum members about the UK. For clarity, I'm not saying it isn't here and growing. Point was purely related to moderation in areas where perhaps the threat is not as high. Violence in the UK from muslim communities against others and each other appears a lot higher that what we see here from the 6-8m muslims. |
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| dunkie | May 31 2010, 05:42 PM Post #41 |
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And using another Ruby statistic, latest count shows 843 mosques, so around 7,700 people per mosque. This shows be that we have a lower level of practicing muslims than the UK. (or they dont get planning permission! )
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 05:42 PM Post #42 |
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Good post fern Maybe we should set up a division that deals with this. We can create an EDL website dedicated to offering advice and support to those wanting to leave Islam. We can also try and enlist the help of ex Muslims, and try to get funding from organisations that may support such and imitative. I am sure donations would be forthcoming from those organisations sympathetic with our cause from the United States, gawd bless em. A group of us would need to put the time in though. It would comprise of a number of people willing to spend the time on their computer to make this work. Not only we will we get the satisfaction of saving people from that cult, but it would be a wild hair up the Islamist arse. A win win situation. |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 05:44 PM Post #43 |
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Funnily enough I got the a similar response from an online friend in the US who said "it wont happen over here we wont allow it" despite my screaming at him "IT'S ALREADY f**kING HAPPENING OPEN YOUR f**kING EYES" he still wouldn't accept it. Just like in Europe, there a lot of people in America who are in denial. But then why wouldn't they be when like us for so long, they too have been shielded from the truth and have been spoon fed bulls**t for the last decade or so by their state controlled media!
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| dunkie | May 31 2010, 06:00 PM Post #44 |
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I trust me own eyes and in Texas I don't see it, and imo thats why it isn't on the news. We have a 3.5% muslim population in Dallas and nothing like the issues described on this website about the UK, almost all are Sunni's and live in an area just north of the main city. Can't speak for other states, I know populations will be higher in NY etc |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 07:48 PM Post #45 |
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Hello dunkie, We don't need to attract brave moderates they can make their own group. In the same way that we have divisions of likeminded people within the EDL, there will be people who would rather form other organisations to suit their own perspective on how to deal with this Islamic problem. And if these groups can work together towards a common goal then even better. I'll tell you this though, the people here would not of allowed the building of a Mega Mosque on a site where thousands of its citizens were slaughtered by Muslims. And only the EDL would have the balls to lead the way on this, while the moderates at best would muster the bravery to follow behind. This country needs the EDL because without them there would only be moderates, but with the EDL they can have the confidence to be "brave moderates". The main value of the EDL is that not only do they have the confidence to confront situations, but that confidence is passed on, and those that thought the battle against Islamic ideology was lost now rally round the EDL, some moderates included, because now they have hope. But anyway the vast majority of English moderates are much like the Islamic moderates, you don't find millions of them protesting against the EDL views, because they secretly support them, without letting anyone else know they do, so they can keep their so called moral high ground intact while others do the dirty work.
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 07:53 PM Post #46 |
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pmsl @ that voting gif |
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| Deleted User | May 31 2010, 08:03 PM Post #47 |
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Dunkie, the first Sharia Court was in Texas!!! anyway, here are some foiled attempts of terrorism in the USA, and these are only the ones they tell you about! Complete list of over 15,000 Islamic attacks across the world since 911 is here. Long list of terror attacks thwarted by Bush admin since 9/11 – with the one below, indicates both numbers are slightly off but serve as a stark reminder of the growing threat facing America. Then there are the plots that are never publicly announced. 30 Terrorist Plots Foiled: How The System Worked: Based on public information, the U.S. has foiled at least 30 terrorist attacks since 9/11. In two cases, the outcome was the result of sheer luck. The foiling of the rest was the result of good law enforcement and effective intelligence gathering and information sharing. 30 Terrorist Plots Against the U.S. Foild Since 9/11
source atlas shrugs |
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1:13 AM Jul 11
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Feliz Navidad (Gold) created by Sarah & Delirium of the ZNR











). The more mosques erected the more tight knit and powerful they become, and the more difficult it will be for people to leave, speak out, denounce terrorism and aggressive, radical preaching (wahhabi for instance) etc.
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1:13 AM Jul 11