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| New Nationalism; Discuss... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 26 2010, 10:40 PM (561 Views) | |
| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 10:40 PM Post #1 |
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Iv been thinking recently about what is mean to be nationalist nowadays. Im proud of my country but I dont want to be tied with the white nationalist and nazi scum. What does New nationalism mean to you? -To me it means modern culture and tolerance. -It means watching England with people of a different colour. Enjoying a curry and a pint of lager. -Being proud of your Identety and not your 'race'. -Football (Modern and old) -Little Britain, gavin a stacy and other quality British TV shows. -St georges day -Troop homecoming and parades -Inviting others to our culture and enjoying it with them. Others may have a diffent approach as these are only personal. |
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| studio | May 26 2010, 10:44 PM Post #2 |
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go on, with you so far... |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 10:44 PM Post #3 |
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I like the EDL becaus it rejects the 'blood and soil' idiolegy of other far-right groups like the BNP and NF but is still intent on our culture and national identity. Im think im home lol... |
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| ignominius | May 26 2010, 11:02 PM Post #4 |
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Nationalism is about being proud of your country, loving it warts and all and not believing it to be better than another country or culture just different. Nationalism is being able to celebrate our country, it's achievements, it's history and it's traditions with those who have more recently joined us on these shores and share the same sense of values. Nationalism should be a driving force to improve our country in those areas where they need improving and offering a helping hand to those in need (something we brits are actually very good at. - little known fact but we give to overseas charity work in greater proportion per head than the Americans - so whilst they may give a total amount larger than ours per person we actually give more). Nationalism isn't being smug and believing in some fantasy that we are somehow superior to all other nations or cultures nor that we are inferior. Nationalism is what binds us all together as Englismen and women , black, white brown or yellow. If you live in these islands and share those values then you have to be a nationalist. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:09 PM Post #5 |
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So PC it's cringe worthy. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:13 PM Post #6 |
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What he said |
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| ignominius | May 26 2010, 11:14 PM Post #7 |
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in what way is that cringeworth or PC. Nationalism is about being proud of your country...what's pc about that. When I was stopped on my doorstep by an SWP type canvassing just before the general election, I stated I was a patriot and proud to be a nationalist and the look on his face told me everything I need to know about PC attitudes towards nationalism. But it was when he said to me ' so you are proud to kill other people then' and came out seconds later with 'and proud to die for your country'. |
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| ignominius | May 26 2010, 11:16 PM Post #8 |
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Well I can see where the pair of you come from....no interest in Britain , it's history or culutre, no pride in it at all. Well never mind guys. Toddle off to where ever you feel nationalism is a little less cringeworthy and I can't see what's so PC about loving your country.....but then you know nothing about love of country really means. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:17 PM Post #9 |
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What's wrong with being proud of your race? Its ok for people to be proud of being black etc. apparently. I don't have an issue with that. I am proud of who I am and part of who I am is a white Englishman with a bit of Welsh. I am proud of both of those parts of my ancestry. My children will be mixed race. They will be part Asian part White. I want them to be proud of being from two proud cultures and part of that culture is to do with race whether you like it or not. There is certainly no getting away from it in my Mrs country, they are proud of who they are. |
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| avfc1982 | May 26 2010, 11:20 PM Post #10 |
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nationalism and white nationalism are different things mate. And being a nationalist doesn't mean 'watching with someone brown skinned', although if that happened it would still be a nationalist move, but also, even if you were doing the same with all whites it would be nationalist. to me, being a nationalist means I love my country and will do what I can to improve it. |
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| ignominius | May 26 2010, 11:20 PM Post #11 |
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For one thing nationalism isn't about race. It's about Nationhood. The word says it all. If I was proud of the Anglo-saxon race that would cover more than the UK, it would include scandanavia, the germans and the dutch. People I have very little in common with who largely don't like the UK....so no, pride in race is irrelevant. And if you want white supremacy there is a web-site specially for you, it's called Stormfront!
Edited by ignominius, May 26 2010, 11:22 PM.
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| avfc1982 | May 26 2010, 11:22 PM Post #12 |
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'There is certainly no getting away from it in my Mrs country, they are proud of who they are. ' but then, bangladesh isn't a 'multicultural haven', they dont have to hide away from racial issues. (I don't know if your mrs is bangladeshi, but it's just a hunch ;)) |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:24 PM Post #13 |
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I am sick to death of the PC clap trap what comes out on here lately. Where did all the real English go, where we can say we love England without 10 sentances after saying how it's also about being multicultural, is it f**k. I am cool with anyone who wants to say they are English, but treating them like they are the second messiah and licking their bum holes because they are Sikh or Black makes me sick. |
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| avfc1982 | May 26 2010, 11:24 PM Post #14 |
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white supremacy and nationaism, always grouped together, it's sad. Maybe not race, but heritage, my heritage is white english, thats what I am and I am proud of it, it is part of my nationalist beliefs. I don't feel superior to anybody, I feel proud of my country and my history. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:25 PM Post #15 |
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I do. I find THAT cringworthy. Why would you be proud of your race? Im not ashamed of it neither am I proud. Race is irelivent |
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| avfc1982 | May 26 2010, 11:27 PM Post #16 |
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race is not irrelevent, no matter what you've been taught. I'm glad I live in a world where there are different races, if we were all the same it would be s**t. But you cannot tell me skin colour does not matter in this world. It'll be a sad day once all the races have blended into each other. |
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| ignominius | May 26 2010, 11:29 PM Post #17 |
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agreed avfc1982, and as for anxiety82's comments.... I am a real Englishman. I can trace my ancestry back further than most on this forum. My kids are mixed race, not white but they are proud as punch to be English (born in England). According to your 'theories on race' only white people can be English and proud of our nation. Well that's bollocks. And as for multiculturalism I never once mentioned it. I stated that our culture is ours and unique, different from others just as theirs is different from ours and long may it be so, but none was superior or inferior over the other. So stop peddling your nazi ideologies and beliefs here. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:30 PM Post #18 |
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Bollox mate. That wasnt the point of the topic. The point was I DONT like multi-culturalism but im happy to share it with everybody whatever colour. Im contasting white/traditional nationalism with modern-day nationalism and what it means for me. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:30 PM Post #19 |
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I understand the distinction. However, isn't it possible to be proud of your race and heritage without being racist? I am proud of who I am and my ancestry. I am proud of the achievements of my "race". I am also proud to have some fantastic friends, fiance, other family who are of different races (not proud of them because of their race but because of who they are). Apparently its ok for someone to be proud of being black, asian or whatever else but white people have to be ashamed of their race. Bollocks to that. My kids will grow up to be damn proud of who they are (when I have them!). Half English, half asian. Just because I am proud of being English and of English heritage doesn't mean I have an issue with anyone who isn't. Except for the Frogs, the Krauts and those goddamn Jocks of course! Oh...... and sp*rs fans. Three quarters English til I die, three quarters English til I die, I know I am I'm sure I am three quarters English til I die! |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:30 PM Post #20 |
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My theories on race? I said I am cool with anyone who wants to be English. But licking their crack till we can only see your shoe laces makes me cringe. |
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| avfc1982 | May 26 2010, 11:32 PM Post #21 |
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'However, isn't it possible to be proud of your race and heritage without being racist?' oh absolutley, that was the point I was making. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:33 PM Post #22 |
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When it comes to why I love England it is. I wouldnt want to see the day we all blend together but neither do I think we should try our best to preserve it. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:33 PM Post #23 |
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who mentioned anything about white supremacism????? Maybe nationalism isn't about race. However, It was the OP that raised the question of race not me. I just wanted to understand why I'm not aloud to be proud of who I am. I don't see what is wrong with being proud of race/heritage. Doesn't mean I want my race to destroy all others. Far from it. I am quite happy for other people to be proud of who they are too. |
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| avfc1982 | May 26 2010, 11:34 PM Post #24 |
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well, that's your opinion and you're more than allowed it. I just think all the races are pure and shouldn't be f**ked around with too much. May sound naziish to people, but then, we all care about the red squirrels, why not the white man?! |
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| ignominius | May 26 2010, 11:36 PM Post #25 |
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Lord Nelson and Anxiety...look at the title of this topic....It says 'New Nationalism'. It says nothing about race. we're discussing love of our country. If you can't understand that then there is some serious shortcomings in your educations. If we are talking race, then you would have to include the Danes, the Norwegians, the Swedes, the Dutch and the Germans. What do you have in common with them other than the colour of your skin. Are you proud of what Germans have achieved....I don't think so. But according to your thinking only white people can be English or British. Well again, look at Ian Wright, black as they come but more patriotic than those traitors Philby, Burgess and Maclean who sold us down the river to the Commies. He's more patriotic and proud of being English than Jack Straw will ever be or indeed any of the labour party. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:37 PM Post #26 |
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anxiety he aint being PC. end of. the white race isnt going to be exterminated like you read on stormfront. any btw the spirit we had during world war 2 and dunkirk is gone with most people in the united kingdom.... # the nationilism probibly sounds racist to people nowadays
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| Gorgie | May 26 2010, 11:38 PM Post #27 |
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I am proud of being Scottish & British. I am proud of my full Scottish and British heritage. I am proud of who I am. I am proud of being white. I have NO problem with other Scots and Brits who are not white. I think this sums it up for me
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"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!" "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Winston Churchill | |
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| avfc1982 | May 26 2010, 11:38 PM Post #28 |
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You're not understanding what they mean tbh. I already said, they mean heritage more than race itself. Heritage as a white, englishman is included on nationalism. Same as a black, half jamaican, half english - he would feel patriotic to jamicia aswell as england because of his heritage. So heritage does come down to it completley. |
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| ignominius | May 26 2010, 11:38 PM Post #29 |
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Nobody has said you can't be proud to be White, but it has very little to do with Nationality. You can be white and be French, Italian, German, Russian, Polish, the list goes on. But we are specifically talking about being English and being proud to be English. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:39 PM Post #30 |
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Personally, I think it would be sad to see the end of the diversity of races be they black, white, brown or yellow. The idea of a future world populated exclusively by coffee coloured humans is a grim Stepford Wives scenario. |
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| avfc1982 | May 26 2010, 11:40 PM Post #31 |
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but then, some people do argue that to be ENGLISH you have to be white, and any race can be BRITISH. It's not something I agree with, but it has been said. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:41 PM Post #32 |
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sadly it now is considered racist to say proud to be white... most people are so scared to say it, but when other races say that its tolerated... imagine a white history month ... how racist would that be? Im proud to be white just like blacks are proud to black and asians to be asians... just because im white dosent mean i dislike blacks .. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:42 PM Post #33 |
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Do you know when I been on my rants in the past I get PMs after with people agreeing with me and liked what I said. It's a shame as they wont say it on the forum cause of people like you who will shun them and call them nazis. Some people on here are no better then the UAF. |
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| ignominius | May 26 2010, 11:42 PM Post #34 |
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avfc82 - can't agree with you on that, my wife is Zimbabwean, my sons are English, they have no interest in Zimbabwe although they share a heritage with my wife. They are English through and through and guess what, it's something they've come to on their own through growing up with the knoweldge of the history and traditions fo this country. |
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| avfc1982 | May 26 2010, 11:43 PM Post #35 |
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i'll keep playing devils advocate here, because i'm bored and a bit drunk. england stems from angloterre which comes from anglo saxons, and the anglo saxons were white, so the argument I just mentioned would be that only white anglos are true english. anybody else is just british. again, I must stress that I don't agree with this, but wouldnt slate those who did. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:43 PM Post #36 |
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First of all: I didn't raise the question of race. The OP did. In fact I agree with you on this. New nationalism (whatever the hell that is) doesn't have to involve race. But my interpretation from the OP was that if you want to be a part of it you can't be proud of your race. Secondly: Will you please stop putting words into my mouth. That is the kind of tactic only somone with serious shortcomings in their education would use. I never said only white people can be English. I never said I believe in white supremacism. Am I proud of what Germans have achieved? Not especially but I am proud of what Europeans have achieved. I am also proud of what the human race has achieved. Your Ian Wright comment is wasted on me. I consider him, like many other people that aren't white, to be English. I am also proud of him. |
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| Gorgie | May 26 2010, 11:46 PM Post #37 |
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As long as you're British, and proud of being so, that's fine with me. If, separately, you are proud of your skin colour, that is fine as well. But as long as you're not all up in my face about it, I couldn't care less. |
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"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!" "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Winston Churchill | |
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| ignominius | May 26 2010, 11:47 PM Post #38 |
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Well, I don't agree with you. I'm proud of being white, but what is important to me is my country. It's given me my culture, my politics, my background. It's given me more than anything. I look back at what my forebears did, One grandfather fought in the first world war serving and fighting on both Somme campaigns (1916 and 1918), one great grandfather fought in boer war. Am I proud because they were white and did these things of course not. I was proud because they were English and proud to serve their country. Nationalism is not about race. What is so difficult about that. Race is a completely different topic altogether. I suspect that neither of you care one Iota for this country, just for some strange belief that your white skin makes you somehow superior to those who don't have the pink skin. That somehow being white makes you more patriotic than not being white. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:48 PM Post #39 |
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If my two English parents had brought me up in Japan and I had no interest in England but grew up educated in the Japanese way... Would that make me Japanese? |
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| avfc1982 | May 26 2010, 11:50 PM Post #40 |
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You're being bang out of order here sorry. I've tried being reasonable, but it seems you're just out to label people as racists and white supremacists here. You can be proud of your country and race and they can be linked, and it doesn't have to conform to multicultural guidleines on what's racist and whats not. a proud white englishman, or a proud black englishman, makes no difference at all, apart from the fact they are proud of what their significent skin colour has bought to this fine country. can we stop the childishness and have a proper debate please? |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:55 PM Post #41 |
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Either you can't be bothered to actually read my posts or you are just stupid. "Well, I don't agree with you. I'm proud of being white, but what is important to me is my country. It's given me my culture, my politics, my background. It's given me more than anything." Well that's funny because that is kinda what I am saying too. I think you do agree with me. "Race is a completely different topic altogether." Again, refer to the OP. "I suspect that neither of you care one Iota for this country, just for some strange belief that your white skin makes you somehow superior to those who don't have the pink skin. That somehow being white makes you more patriotic than not being white." Can you please highlight to me anywhere, ever, in my life that I have said anything that would suggest I think I am more patriotic or in someway better than anyone else based purely on me being white. Go on, I challenge you. Find it. You are using typical UAF tactics. You are claiming that I hold views that haven't even been discussed. You are calling me a white supremacist when I have said no such thing. You are a child. |
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| Gorgie | May 26 2010, 11:55 PM Post #42 |
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Well said. That's what I was trying to say. |
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"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!" "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Winston Churchill | |
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| ignominius | May 26 2010, 11:57 PM Post #43 |
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quote I am proud of who I am and my ancestry. I am proud of the achievements of my "race". I'm not proud of the achievements of my race....simply because I have no care for what the French, the Russians, the Americans, the Italians and all those other 'white' people have done. I'm proud of what Englishmen have done and what they have achieved. In many cases they happened to be white, but in some case they have been of a different skin colour but still English. So by stating your are proud of what your race has achieved then you are also proud of the holocaust, the murder of 5 million peasants on the farmlands of mother Russian. That you are proud of the imposition of the tyrannical European system under Napoleon , that you are proud of the inquisition and proud of the 'the terror' of the French revolution. That's what you are laying claim to. But as an Englishman I can claim to so much more that is better than that without believing in the superiority of a race over another. I'm proud of being English and the achievements of England, but these have been achieved by Englishmen not by white people. It just so happens that many Englishman are white. Why make an issue of skin colour. Skin colour is an adaptation to variations in UV absorbtion and heat control. underneath we are identical. It's the land that shapes us and our thoughts not the colour of the wrapping. |
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| Deleted User | May 26 2010, 11:58 PM Post #44 |
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Well said. Someone who actually bothers to read before they post. Cheers AVFC. For the avoidance of doubt to anyone reading on here, I am not a racist. I don't judge people by the colour of their skin. Just on the way they smell. |
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| avfc1982 | May 26 2010, 11:58 PM Post #45 |
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my god, this is sickening. the communists will love reading this. it's classic 'white guilt' Edited by avfc1982, May 26 2010, 11:59 PM.
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| Deleted User | May 27 2010, 12:00 AM Post #46 |
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Ignoramous. Its not about SUPERIORITY you nob jockey it is about being PROUD of who you are!!! Gay pride this weekend. Bloody homosexual supremacists. If they had their way we'd all be wiped out!!!! How dare they be proud of who they are! Surely just your sexuality doesn't make you better or worse than someone else? |
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| Deleted User | May 27 2010, 12:02 AM Post #47 |
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Anything I say touchy on here seems I am a nazi. I would have more say with the UAF. |
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| Deleted User | May 27 2010, 12:02 AM Post #48 |
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God, I wish I didn't bring it up now... I never said you can't be proud to be White. I said it shouldn't matter when it comes to pride in your country. I was trying to abolish the old ways of nationalism and presenting you with my personal view on what new nationalism should be. |
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| Deleted User | May 27 2010, 12:04 AM Post #49 |
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You killed it at new. Also, am I the only one who didn't find Little Britain funny? |
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| ignominius | May 27 2010, 12:04 AM Post #50 |
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I'm not accusing people of being racist, they're doing that for themselves. The keep saying look at the op. Well, the OP said he didn't want to be branded as a white nationalist or nazi. So, I posted what I believe is a fair and objective assesment of what being a modern nationalist is all about. I made no mention of having to be of one specific race. Others brought that in. The discussion has been hijacked by people who brought race into the topic, then failed to read what had been said. I.e. if you are proud of your race then you must share that pride with a whole heap of people outside of the country. I, on the other hand , have tried to keep people on the point of the discussion by pointing out nationalism has nothing to do with race and everything to do with a love of your country no matter what your skin colour. However, the arguements still come in that race is nationalist. So my arguing against bringing race into the debate I'm told I'm out of order. Well, lets all take a step back and a re-read what we've typed and instead of knee-jerk reactions listen to one another. |
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