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| Why the 'Peaceful Moderate' Muslim 'Majority' is Irrelevant | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 25 2010, 07:42 AM (2,001 Views) | |
| Room 101 | May 28 2010, 07:23 AM Post #201 |
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And your point is? |
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"You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.” O'Brien - 1984 | |
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| Room 101 | May 28 2010, 07:47 AM Post #202 |
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OOO Killing for crimes how about this Execution of Briton Akmal Shaikh: China defiant in the face of criticism Note the word from the west "criticism" Well keefriffhard this UK Pakistan born Con man cared a 4Kg of drugs into China Well I was in China at the time and let me tell you BIG f*****g mistake But that was not way he was Shot in the back of the head No this muppet said when asked in court did he know he was carrying a bag full of drugs from Kurdistan (a know Muslim Terrorist hosting state) in to The North of China (which at the time was being attacked by Muslim Terrorist) he said NO, when asked if he had filled out the forms saying "have you alone packed your bags" he filled in YES. When ask where the bags came from he said. Two Muslims he had met a few days before in Kurdistan had asked him to carry then bags to china on a packed air craft for them and whould he mind NOT looking in side and saying he had packed them him self Which he did, The Chinese had him shot for doing that and the drugs In other words being a utter utter prat! The Chinese Press was doing its NUT at the time saying What is wrong with the west!! can you know see this guys was a drug dealer and trying to kill kids. Drugs in China are seen as Poison so he was done for Attempted Poisoning and the say 4kg of H can kill 200 so he got shot for the Attempted murder of 200 people. I love Chinese thinking Edited by Room 101, May 28 2010, 07:52 AM.
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"You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.” O'Brien - 1984 | |
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| studio | May 28 2010, 08:07 AM Post #203 |
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http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3276463/2/#post1000324 I think its this one (post 131) sorry time was off and the phones not the easiest to search on. In one of your earlier posts on this thread, you pointed out that nobody had taken up your 'I refer you to this survey' offer. I thought I pointed out earlier that I think it proves the existence or moderates as well as extreme. I have no idea who Keef is, or invited him here. But to be honest, I think your failing with him Its all well and good beating your chest around the converts, but it shows that those opposed are not so easy to persuade. Its this obvious fail on your part that I have wanted to get the EDL away from. But carry on, your choice Oh, and I am big enough to apologise, and that's a lot more than some on here are willing to do. Your one of the most belligerent gits on here, but I was not being arrogant. Go back and edit it, I actually think its out of character for you. carry on with your calling in the hope he will get 'trolled' and we can all party with our victory. Another idiot owned while the rest of the world says 'I hate the idea of sharia and extremists are wankers, but the guy in the corner shop is sound and he's a Muslim. He ain't no bomber so your just being ..... (you fill in the blank)' |
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 28 2010, 08:28 AM Post #204 |
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That's a coincidence - exactly what Keef Richards was saying. I think everyone knows that those already opposed to the EDL (or Jihadwatchers in general) and those who seek to make apologies for Islamic extremism and for Islam itself (a largely immoral belief system) will be impossible to persuade. I don't think 'persuasion' of that type of person is the aim of the EDL. It's not called the English Persuasion League. Edited by Battle of Lepanto, May 28 2010, 08:30 AM.
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| studio | May 28 2010, 08:53 AM Post #205 |
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What about those who dont live in inner cities, who dont want to go into the no go areas anyway, who dont suffer homophobic attacks etc etc. Should we not be working on them. Making our arguements acceptable to them? But call me a troll if you want, wont stop my stance. |
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| keefriffhard | May 28 2010, 09:41 AM Post #206 |
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Y'know what? Bollocks to this. You lot are right, Muslims are evil. They're all evil, every single one of em. The cabbies making their living, the kids at school, the people in the corner shops, the people out on the high street, they are all evil infiltrators of your culture, they're all engaged in Paqquiao or whatever the f**k is was you were talking about. I came here thinking maybe there was some discussion going on and where there actually is in some quarters 95% of it is just a slanging match and y'know what, pound to a penny if that was me being rude and abusive i'd immediately be tarred with the same brush as you appear to tar everyone else that your anti-islam radar decides to start calling muslim. I mean the sorts of arrogant baseless predudice i've faced here in about two days is un-f**king-believable! Everything from "you talk too well to be from muslim pakistanis" what is it that you think muslims speak like?!?!?! or "how can you born in a pakistani muslim family if you like the rolling stones?" whaaat the fuuuuuckkk? That one took the f**kin biscuit for me.But bollocks to it, people believe what they need to believe i suppose, we're all human beings on our way somewhere, if this is the path that so many choose to take i'm sure there's a reason for it, i hope you enjoy each others company, carry on, take to the streets, drag em out of their shops, nail em to stakes and whatever it is that you want to do, this "action" that everyone goes on about but no one can describe or define, all just sit around and congratulate each other if you like... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSxtop5uCow&feature=PlayList&p=0CF50B0BDC1B038F&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=12 see that at 45 seconds? Thats what a pakistani muslim at a Sex Pistols gig looks like Now tell me...am i lying? Oh i suppose i still probably am, although i offered anyone on here to come on msn if they like...probably end up saying "how do we know you were born in a muslim family?" i'm sorry we don't all have crescents tattooed on our faces although i'm sure you'd like that, so you'd know who to avoid on your kristalnacht. http://www.life.com/image/77816661 there he is again, bottom corner on the left LOL http://www.life.com/image/77814749 and again (excuse the obscene gesture) Don't tell me, i'm still lying and faking, right? I'm just a traitorous inflitrator, i went trawling through all photographic evidence of The Sex Pistols in performance just to pick out a slightly toasted looking young man and claim to be him But as i say, i'm off, its been made abunduntly clear by numberous parties that this is not the place for discusion and alls i'm doing by giving an opposing view is coming off as an agitator or worse still, like in the case of that strange person Black Jack Peter Cushing or whatever his name is, some sort of undercover agent for Holy Jihad. Whatever gets you through the night i suppose. i hope things go well for you guys, i sincerely do. I do hope its not at the expense of any poor sod and i do hope no one gets hurt...on either side. As a general thing, i mean at your rallys and such. Take Care
Edited by keefriffhard, May 28 2010, 09:42 AM.
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 28 2010, 09:46 AM Post #207 |
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You are one dishonest individual to reduce the discussion you were engaged in here (with some people who spent considerable time dealing with your moral relativism and equivalence) to one of 'dragging people out' and 'nailing them up' and 'kristallnacht'. So you heard read one or two unsophisticated responses to your moral equivalence/relativism. Big deal. Not wanting to be rude, but f*ck off then. Edited by Battle of Lepanto, May 28 2010, 10:04 AM.
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| Deleted User | May 28 2010, 09:53 AM Post #208 |
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Did we mention that our motto is 'No Surrender?'
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| keefriffhard | May 28 2010, 09:57 AM Post #209 |
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it was directed at the "unsophisticated"...i love that "unsophisticated"...thats one way of putting it...how about extreme predudice? you find the dragging people out and nailing them up a bit extreme? Cuz i could've sworn i saw people advocating pitched battles in the street earlier. Anyway, i'm supposed to be out of here so bye
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| General Pershing | May 28 2010, 10:02 AM Post #210 |
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Exactly, f**k off. |
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 28 2010, 10:03 AM Post #211 |
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I'm unsophisticated. The nature of the enemy doesn't require sophistication in response, just determination. It's one of those black and white situations. No shades of grey. Edited by Battle of Lepanto, May 28 2010, 10:10 AM.
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| Deleted User | May 28 2010, 10:03 AM Post #212 |
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The drama queen has flounced out then. |
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| keefriffhard | May 28 2010, 10:04 AM Post #213 |
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Oooh, its The General!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUe1TRU8xsY I'm cackin' my pants sir, honest
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 28 2010, 10:04 AM Post #214 |
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Nah, she's posting a reply.
Edited by Battle of Lepanto, May 28 2010, 10:05 AM.
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| Deleted User | May 28 2010, 10:06 AM Post #215 |
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Ffs, how many curtain calls is she taking?
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 28 2010, 10:08 AM Post #216 |
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I fear the fat lady hasn't starting singing yet! Nope, she's gone. Please, no call for an encore. Edited by Battle of Lepanto, May 28 2010, 10:09 AM.
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 28 2010, 10:14 AM Post #217 |
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Studio will most likely be back in a minute. |
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ANTI-JIHADIST FREE-THINKER | |
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| keefriffhard | May 28 2010, 10:16 AM Post #218 |
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Not quite sir/madam but on the way. Yeah, drama queen right, i'm pulling the race card or something, i suppose? Nothing to do with being told that numerous times that i was effectively wrong by way of birth and would remain so until such time as i dennounce the faith that i was born in. Now despite the fact that i don't follow or believe in it, i refuse to dennounce any religion, that ain't me. |
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| General Pershing | May 28 2010, 10:38 AM Post #219 |
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Hopefully he/she's gone now, but I do think keefer has demonstrated the moderate Muslim mentallity quite well. He supports terrorists as demonstrated in his response here: http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/single/?p=1027436&t=3372157 and in this thread he refuses to denounce his religion of terror. Moderate Muslim? Very, very moderate by Muslim standards. |
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| keefriffhard | May 28 2010, 10:49 AM Post #220 |
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i think you'll find what that post is saying general sir is that it would be a bad thing if after the next terrorist attack people on England were to go on a rampage in the streets attacking muslims on sight. How you manage to construe that as support for terrorists i don't know. And why you insist on still calling me a muslim despite my saying i don't believe in it i don't know. Does that mean you're a muslim too? Can i start calling you General Mustafa? No i didn't think so, so extend me the same courtesy if you don't mind. there's a good number of people on here with a sense of humour and an openness to debate but i must say that out of all the people, you are the most disturbingly bigoted and blinkered i've come across. You scare me, you really do. Your rationale is so impenetrably foul that its impossible to discuss with, its like trying to talk to Hitler. To summarise, based my limited talks with you, you think all practising muslims are evil and people that are born muslims but do not believe anymore are engaged in something called Taqquia or somethin? which basically means that they are lying with a view to inflitrating non believers. By this rationale anybody born as a member of the muslim race is effectively beyond redemption. That sir is a clear cut case of flat out Third Riechian bigotry of the highest order. This is basically what the Nazi's preached about jews, that they are totally beyond redemption or help or saving and they just need getting rid of. |
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| studio | May 28 2010, 10:57 AM Post #221 |
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TV, i pop in and out when at work. I agree with a lot of keefs post. I also think there are moderate muslims and i have yet to see otherwise. Didnt know the EDL were anti muslim full stop. |
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 28 2010, 10:58 AM Post #222 |
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The guy/gal is a complete cretin. He/she's still banging on - reducing it to calling people Nazis. At which point, surely to God, the conversation is over. |
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 28 2010, 11:04 AM Post #223 |
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They're not, you f*cking moron. This is a forum! Speaking for myself: why don't the pair of you f*ck off?! Edited by Battle of Lepanto, May 28 2010, 11:11 AM.
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| Deleted User | May 28 2010, 11:07 AM Post #224 |
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Oh dear keefslightofhand, sometimes your best just isn't good enough! Talking round and round in circles will neither make us dizzy or talk us into a corner. |
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| keefriffhard | May 28 2010, 11:10 AM Post #225 |
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What on EARTH are you talking about?!?!?! The blokes said it, plain as day, what more do you want?!?! He said that practising muslims are beyond help and the ones who say they don't believe are engaged in taqquia or something which means that they are basically undercover infiltrator...now did i f**king hallucinate that or what? Was that said or did i just completely dream that up and write it here through some sort of involuntary spasmodic out of body expierience?
Yeah but thats basically an all purpose answer to explain anyway any and every inequity that comes your organisations way, the point is they're on an EDL website, they say they support EDL, no one stops and goes 'nah mate, that ain't what the EDL are about' so what the f**k do you expect? Edited by keefriffhard, May 28 2010, 11:14 AM.
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| Battle of Lepanto | May 28 2010, 11:12 AM Post #226 |
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You clearly believe whatever you want. |
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| keefriffhard | May 28 2010, 11:15 AM Post #227 |
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Yes, as does the rest of the world but i'm not sure how thats relevant to the fact that the bloke said it, he said it on this forum, in the english language...so it just is what it is basically, isn't it? There's really no two ways about it. |
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| General Pershing | May 28 2010, 11:18 AM Post #228 |
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I was born catholic in a catholic family and although I don't practice any religion, I'm still catholic. So you are Muslim by birth and Muslim by nature. Just because you like Sid Vicious and other western music doensn't mean you're not Muslim. If this ever does become another Islamic state then you'd be killed for apostacy. I'm glad you find me so hard to ration with. I'm not swallowing your lies. I can read between your lines and I can see you're here with a sinister agenda. Now, why don't you go play with your Muslim friends or better still, go join the UAF (if you haven't already) as you'll be welcomed there with open arms. |
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| keefriffhard | May 28 2010, 11:24 AM Post #229 |
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How about addressing the question General, did you or did you not saying what i said you were saying i.e. practising muslims are wrong wholesale and ones that aren't are practising taqquia and are undercover infiltrators? You've basically just made a statement yourself that is contrary to one of the EDL tenets as far as i'm aware which is that i'm a muslim whether i like it or not or whether i believe in it or not...this is to say that i am, by default, part of a group that you deem as intolerable, no matter what i believe and how i think. And you claim to be a member of the EDL. and yet no ones saying anything about it. And what about that abdul bloke, the one on the bbc show? Surely by your rationale he's still a muslim too, whats he doing there, in amongst the faithful? Sinister agenda, yeah, you wanna know my sinister agenda? Peace, y'know, that stuff Gandhi and John Lennon talked about, the same thing i've been talking about since i got here...very sinister. Get this straight, i am a human being and a member of a free society and i am free to practise any religion i like, religion is not the same as race, your race is your race no matter what, you religion is about the way you choose to worship and if i don't believe in Islam that means i am not a muslim. Its really quite simple. Edited by keefriffhard, May 28 2010, 11:26 AM.
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| General Pershing | May 28 2010, 11:25 AM Post #230 |
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Keefers mini-agenda is to stifle the topic in the OP. The point is that moderate Muslims like himself do exist, but are irrelevant. |
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| keefriffhard | May 28 2010, 11:28 AM Post #231 |
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avoiding the point again eh general? whats the matter? what are you afraid of? A direct question was asked of you good sir
Edited by keefriffhard, May 28 2010, 11:28 AM.
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| Deleted User | May 28 2010, 11:35 AM Post #232 |
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Keef kept insisting that the younger generation of muslims was different, they were anglicised/westernized, the problem with islamic fundamentalism was going away, la-la land is lovely. He's running off with his toys now because I forced him to look at the statistical evidence that flatly proved that his claimed "insider" knowledge (as some alleged pakistani who managed to get out from being a muslim) was wrong (and probably a conscious lie). Yeah, you won the debate mate. The objective evidence is there for everyone to see. Muslims in this country are less law-abiding than average (3% of the popn., 12% of the prison popn.), they have become MANIFESTLY more aggressive and zealous in the past decade, and the incidence of extremist views is 3x more prevalent than in their parents' generation. I am waiting for you to dismiss the survey I provided, because I've got more of them. Before I joined EDL I made sure that what I was seeing with my own eyes was not some local aberration. I went to find surveys of opinion to see what was going on with muslims here. Muslims demand tolerance for themselves, but have zero tolerance for homosexuals like me. Do you want the survey evidence that proves that too? How come someone as articulate as yourself, and from a muslim background, who came here finding the EDL interesting, is yet so ignorant of all the objective evidence of how muslims are becoming more extreme and aren't integrating. Could it be you're just ideologically blind or are here to waste our time. Rather than just launch into two posts an hour for a couple of days, did you bother to ask for any pointers to threads about these issues, or even search for them? That's what I do whenever I join a new community, rather than just launch into a debate firing on all cylinders. It's called "getting informed before making a fool of yourself". If you can't be bothered to do that, why should we be patient with you? The theme of this thread is to what extent they are moderate they are irrelevant. The demo on 20th June for OLFA will prove it. You've proved it yourself as an alleged ex-muslim. You are either a liar or you have no idea what's truly going on in this country. Your effort to avert the looming crisis is irrelevant, because you are doing nothing, not even getting informed. Moderate muslims have plenty of opportunities to stand up to extremists. They don't do it. They are irrelevant. When George Galloway was attacked by Islam4UK people twice in Tower Hamlets, no-one came to his aid. When radicals hand out leaflets saying "voting is apostasy" no-one ever argues with them. |
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| keefriffhard | May 28 2010, 11:54 AM Post #233 |
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you didn't force me to look at anything, u pointed it out, i looked, secondly, i said it was a shocking statistic, i didn't dispute it or try to gloss over it, its called being open minded and taking information in, i'm not in the least bit homophobic (actually, some of my greatest heroes are gay, Montgomery Clift for example) i am not ignorant of muslim extremism and i've said this over and over and over, ALLS i'm saying is aggression is not the way. Now how hardline extremist and hardcore is that? |
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| studio | May 28 2010, 11:58 AM Post #234 |
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no names.
Edited by MJ999, May 28 2010, 12:21 PM.
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| lankyboy | May 28 2010, 12:07 PM Post #235 |
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Edited by MJ999, May 28 2010, 12:24 PM.
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| Deleted User | May 28 2010, 12:12 PM Post #236 |
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And just incase you hadn't noticed or just plain chose to ignore it, the EDL promotes peaceful protesting. There is a small caveat though...................Any violence used against demonstrators will obviously get responded to, it's called self defence. How the media choose to portray this is a huge problem to us. |
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| Deleted User | May 28 2010, 12:14 PM Post #237 |
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Why would we say anything? This is an open forum and you have as much right to challenge him on this as he does you on what you say and until such time as it gets really out of order nobody will step in. When you first log in to this forum you are greeted with a paragraph of which the following is the first sentence...
We are all aware of this and respect it. Edit: Why is Keefriffhard Orange?
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| Deleted User | May 28 2010, 12:15 PM Post #238 |
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First let me apologize. I apologize for thinking you were intelligent. You're clearly not going to apologize for besmirching my character. You said here ( http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/single/?p=1026565&t=3369816 ), that I have claimed that "20 years of BNP racism was OK because there was a black police association". Knowing that is not one of my asinine comments (I make plenty of those), I asked you to prove where I said that. You came back with some hand-waving about some date & time when I allegedly said it, leaving me to go off and search through all the possible threads, unable to even find a post by me at that date and time. Now you've been pushed to provide the actual sentence where I allegedly said this, but no, you've provided a link. Well, nowhere on that linked post do I make the asinine statement you claim. In fact, this is what I said: "I am quite tired of having to explain why the BNP seemed to be maintaining their discriminatory membership policy. One of the things they were doing was making a point. There are plenty of organizations in this country that are racist (black police officers associations, black housing associations). Some of these organizations go as far as allowing white people to become "associate members" (some don't even allow that). Even before the EHRC case, the BNP allowed non-white people to become associate members." (If you were referring to something else on that post, please tell me - maybe I can apologize for that.) My remarks are entirely addressed to their discriminatory membership policy. Nowhere do I defend the BNP's 20 year history of racism (I'm not even expert enough on the BNP to know what racism they have been guilty of in 20 years - I had no interest in them until last year). I've said several times elsewhere on this forum that I didn't think this was an effective way to draw attention to the discriminatory practices of "all black" associations. Alas, my very point in that post shows your mind is not sharp enough to pick up fine distinctions. As you'll see, I make no attempt to go and edit it, even though you still think I'm as petty as you imagine. I stand by what I said in that post. I think it's entirely in character for me. I think you'll find that in 3 months on this forum and almost 1000 posts I've never been accused of trying to alter the historical record of what I've said. As for Keef, I don't really care if he gets banned or not. The subject is whether or not moderate muslims are irrelevant in this struggle. His refusal to recognize the problem (eerily shared by you), makes him irrelevant. His failure to take any political action to help solve the problem (eerily shared by you) makes him irrelevant. As for my belligerence. It is reserved for 2 occasions. Those people who are too scared to go on a demo because of violent reprisals from muslims who know them, yet claim they have lots of muslim friends and thus have some insight into how moderate the majority are. That gets my goat. I'm not saying that everyone who says they support EDL must go on demos. If the reason is they're scared of muslims, that's perfectly understandable. They don't then keep insisting the majority of muslims are moderate and peaceful. Such people should just get out of here, because they will not miss their civil rights when the muslims have got their caliphate. Such people have already given up those civil rights because they are too scared to exercise them. Unfortunately for you, you are the only person like that on here, so it seems I'm singling you out on this issue, but I'm not. Simples. Go on a demo, or attend a division meeting. Or stop saying the majority are moderate and peaceful. Or just stop saying you support EDL. The other occasion I get belligerent is people whining about violence on the demos. On the occasion of both the Dudley and Aylesbury demos there were stories on the BBC on the same day when there was far more violence in the country over far more trivial issues. Yet it's the EDL demos that people characterize as violent. I'm really ashamed to think I come across as belligerent. I blame this forum software. When they changed over to the other style forum, I was nice as pie. I wish they'd left the other style forum. Over on FB I'm charming and funny. Those are the parts of my kaleidoscopic personality that are brought out by the software interface. I've been avoiding this forum because I don't like to be so combative. But I have to admit for quoting, etc. it is a much superior debating interface than FB. If I'm belligerent on here, it's because I want to stop the spread of islamic fundamentalism. Because if that is not stopped, we face the prospect of a civil war. That's when you'll see what belligerence truly means. But anyway, i'll apologize for being belligerent as well. There you go, two apologies in one post. I love apologizing. I could do it all day. |
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| studio | May 28 2010, 12:19 PM Post #239 |
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More than i respect you! Wanker! Edited by MJ999, May 28 2010, 12:23 PM.
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| Deleted User | May 28 2010, 12:23 PM Post #240 |
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Everyone knows the rules about giving peoples names out on here. You don`t. If you have a problem, let a mod know. |
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| General Pershing | May 28 2010, 12:23 PM Post #241 |
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If you read the OP then I am in full agreement that moderate Muslims are as relevant to Islamofascism as moderate Nazis were to the Third Reich. There are indeed Muslim's who practice the art of 'taquia'. I do therefore pay attention to the fact that according to Muslim tradition, it is allowed to lie and disguise oneself as a non-Muslim in order to survive in a hostile culture. The British public is hostile to Islam (and getting more and more so each time Muslims make their demands). This taquia way of life is 'pretending to be someone else'. So yes, I do believe there are Muslims who are very well versed in this art of deception. As HS says, why don't you actually research Islam. I suggest you start by watching 'The Third Jihad': |
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| studio | May 28 2010, 01:01 PM Post #242 |
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Sorry, dont think i used a real name though. No excuse though. Sorry to mj for forcing an edit and the forum on mass for breaking the rules. |
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| ignominius | May 28 2010, 01:28 PM Post #243 |
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Infidel
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Everything revolves around two things. Exactly what is a muslim and exactly what is a 'moderate' muslim. Everything we are arguing for or against hangs on these two question. The first is relatively easy to answer, but comes with a caveat. That caveat being that a muslim will reside somewhere on a spectrum of faith between extremist and cultural/apostate. A muslim is muslim when they have declared the muslim statement of faith about Allah and Muhammed or at had it whispered into their ear as a baby (basically born a muslim). The second question : Exactly what constitutes a moderate muslim, is harder to answer. There are a number of issues to overcome before a satisfactory definition can be reached. One of these is the perception of what a 'moderate' is by non-muslims and the perception of what a 'moderate' is by muslims themselves. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter comes to mind in that respect. Another aspect as well to think about when looking at what makes a moderate muslim and that is the question of attitude towards religion and faith from the point of view of non-muslim and from that of the muslim. If we look at the attitudes toward religion first that will perhaps provide a bedrock on whicht to build up our picture of a 'moderate' muslim. As we all know in the west, for us infidels, religion and faith are personal matters. What each individual believes is personal to that person and though might be influenced by outside forces, it is still a personal decision and because it is personal , adherents of a particular faith/belief system respect the belief/faith systems of others. All get on reasonably well and largely peacefully. In Islam, religion is not personal, you are either a muslim or you are not a muslim. If you are not a muslim then it's Islams duty to ensure you become a muslim or to at least make it difficult for the individual to remain a non-muslim. Islam's implemenation of this is two fold - peer pressure and shariah law. So we can see that non-muslim thinking about faith is flexible. it allows for a change of heart in faith. One could conceivably go through all the gamut of beliefs until you finally found one that suited or came to the opinion that there is no god or gods. This is not the case for Islam. If you leave Islam , shariah law states that apostates must be killed. Peer pressure is often enough in itself to keep a person a muslim, but the extra threat of violence is also tried and tested method. To the westerner a moderate believer - of whatever faith, not just of Islam - is one who practices their faith, who may be quite pious, but does not force his beliefs/opinions/ideas on others. In Islam , this view is slightly different. A moderate muslim is one who is pious, follows the teachings of the Koran , hadith and Sunnah. He/she ollows Muhammeds example in daily life as the perfect example. On the face of it that would appear to match that of western perceptions about moderate beliefs. It's this perception which is at fault. For an extremist muslim (to western thinking) is the muslim who fights Jihad, whether it be physical armed struggle, cultural , financial or spiritual jihad. To Islam this a muslim - a moderate muslim. He is one following his faith according to the Koran, the Hadith and the Sunnah and follows the example Muhammed. What the westerners what to believe is a moderate muslim is to Islam an apostate. A western 'moderate' is one who practices their faith, keeps the religious festivals such as eid and ramadan, pays zakat, prays 5 times a day and goes to the Mosque on Fridays. How much is that similar to western view of a moderate Christian , who goes to Church on Sunday, pays the tithe, observes Christmas properly, Easter and all the other festivals in between) - no difference. Excpet to Islam the 'moderate' muslim is an apostate because he is not involved in Jihad. O ye who believe! Shall I show you a commerce that will save you from a painful doom? You should believe in Allah and His messenger, and should strive for the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That is better for you, if ye did but know. He will forgive you your sins and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Gardens of Eden. That is the supreme triumph. And (He will give you) another blessing which ye love: help from Allah and present victory. Give good tidings (O Muhammad) to believers. (61:10-13; cf. 9:19-22; 9:111; 2:154; 2:243-245; 47:4-6; 3:195) ... Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home). (4:95) They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, (Pickthall 4:089) So a moderate muslim in the eyes of the west is not a very good muslim in the eyes of Islam. A moderate muslim in the eyes of Islam is a fundementalist in the eyes of the west. I think that should go someway to stop the circular arguments and focus on the real issues. |
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| lankyboy | May 28 2010, 01:38 PM Post #244 |
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I was aware it wasn't your real name, so let's leave it at that. |
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| Deleted User | May 28 2010, 02:03 PM Post #245 |
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No, these types never go. They threaten to go, constantly spitting out their dummy, but they cling on, like an old crusty clinker. ![]() They love the attention. Just watch.....
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| studio | May 28 2010, 03:03 PM Post #246 |
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Jason, it is so please think twice before linking off board with on., |
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| Deleted User | May 28 2010, 03:43 PM Post #247 |
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Keef is in orange so when he comes back for another fix, he can scan down the page and find his posts more easily. I don't think he's become an ulsterman to prove his loyalty to the crown. |
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| Room 101 | May 28 2010, 04:05 PM Post #248 |
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O I see, Ok, lets say your right, That I'm all about extreme prejudice but Think on this Consider which has had the most cultural impact on the other for a moment Has Islamic culture Impacted western culture more than western culture has impacted Islamic culture? And truth be told it has to be that western culture has impacted Islamic culture far far more. Consumerism, the Industrial revolution, The Financial system, Music, Media, Film, Modern arts, Western Medicine, Information Revolution the list is vast and is ever growing. This is not a war to stop Islam its a popping up process to find the new nut jobs that are left The fact is Islamic culture is trying to under what has all ready been done. Saudi Women once away from there men pull of there Burka''s and Reveal, French Clothing and makeup, they dance to English music and ready Italian Magazines. This is not about trying to change Islamic culture, its about carrying on the Process and mopping up the last few nut jobs willing to kill to take it back to a past thats gone for ever. I'm sorry some here come across as prejudice when I think they are more about Culturalism, they do not like the fact that a last few hold outs in Islam seem to thing they can move time back woulds. They can not and that anger, that loss they see all around them in Islamic culture drivers them to Extremism, is the only place left for there minds, because the reality is just to harsh to face. The west won years ago all we need to do now is keep winning. Edited by Room 101, May 28 2010, 04:13 PM.
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"You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.” O'Brien - 1984 | |
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1:21 AM Jul 11
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Feliz Navidad (Gold) created by Sarah & Delirium of the ZNR






Its all well and good beating your chest around the converts, but it shows that those opposed are not so easy to persuade. Its this obvious fail on your part that I have wanted to get the EDL away from.
That one took the f**kin biscuit for me.
Now tell me...am i lying? Oh i suppose i still probably am, although i offered anyone on here to come on msn if they like...probably end up saying "how do we know you were born in a muslim family?" i'm sorry we don't all have crescents tattooed on our faces although i'm sure you'd like that, so you'd know who to avoid on your kristalnacht.



1:21 AM Jul 11