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coherent debate on the immigration issues our country
Topic Started: Apr 16 2010, 10:40 PM (679 Views)
studio
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Over to you Globos....
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the silence is deafning
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studio
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please give him a chance, nice mild mannered conversation. He has claimed its not possible so lets prove him wrong

iain
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While me amongst others would welcome a debate - I asked and answered his question earlier - its pointless letting him post on here. He only wants to find out real names of the leaders as stated on his other forum. Normally, I would agree to leaving them on so we can all have a say - they usually give up in the end. I personally think we would be wasting our time on this one.
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General Pershing
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I don't get this thread? You want to start a debate about immigration? Here's a starter for ten then:

In any political battle, it is essential to have a clear understanding of the polls.
There are two key points for framing a stance on immigration:

1) 90% of the British people reject a policy "ending all immigration".
2) Substantial majorities of all categories of the British people favor massive cuts of >80% in current immigration levels. (See below)

So the official stance of the EDL on immigration should be:
"We do not advocate a complete halt in immigration. We do advocate very steep cuts in the current immigration levels."

If this approach is taken, the EDL is very much not on the "far right", and in fact is in the "mainstream center". They are speaking for the majority of British people, and they should boldly assume the confidence and high-ground which that gives them. They must reiterate over and over that they are speaking for the majority of the British people, and that those who stand against them are fringe elements of the far left who have no support from the public.

Here are the stats to back up the point I am making:

******
72% think the government is handling immigration poorly.
41% think immigration does more harm than help to the country.
59% think that immigration has had little or no effect on their local area.
36% think immigrants might pose a threat to public order and safety.
52% think immigrants might pose a threat to employment.
62% think that immigration might lead to Britain losing its identity.

*****
63% think immigration should be "much tougher" while a further 11% say there should be no more immigration.
There are significant differences in the way the issue is viewed by men and women — with many more females saying they do not believe that immigration is good for Britain.

*****
54% think there are too many immigrants in this country.
58% think the Islamic faith treats women as second class citizens.
90% reject a policy of "ending all immigration".

*****
- 76% want to see net immigration cut from its present level of 237,000 a year to 50,000 or less a year. Of that 76%, 32% want to see a policy of “one in, one out” while 22% want to see no immigration at all.
The party affiliations are also of interest:
- A sharp cut in immigration (to 50,000 a year or less) was supported by 85% of Conservative, 70% of Labour[1] and 65% of Lib Dem voters.

*****
-70% want immigration cut by over 80%
17% believe net foreign immigration should be reduced to 50,000 a year
39% thought there should be no net immigration
16% thought there should be more emigrants than immigrants.
-79% were concerned or very concerned about the issued of immigration.
- Over half ABC1s (52%) and C2DEs (58%) thought that immigration should be cut to either no net immigration or there should be more emigrants than migrants.
-Young people also think that immigration should be drastically reduced: a total of 63% of 18-34 year olds thought that net immigration should be either 50,000 a year, or there should be no net immigration; or that emigration should be greater than immigration.
-65 % of Londoners think that net immigration should be cut by 80% while 50% think that there should either be no net immigration, or emigration should be greater than immigration.

A key point:

Limits on immigration are the best way to chop the process of Islamization off at the knees. It's a powerful way to limit muslim numbers, and thus suppress their demographic muscle. It is also easy to push because a large majority of the British public backs it. In short, this is a strong tactical combination which can deliver a major setback to the muslims.
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studio
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Agreed, but rather than send him packing, lets re-educate him.
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its just a thread for 'globos' mate.
he's better than us.
he's late though. ^o)
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Very interest figures...
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he's hiding at the bottom of the forum,he does'nt want to play
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lone distant bell tolls......
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Maybe the little bugger has rugger tomorrow so needs an early night!

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ignominius
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Immigration can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing. At the present rates that we are currently experiencing it's a bad thing. Nearly half a million new souls are coming to these islands. We currently are not building enough housing to keep up with the current population demands let alone with additional peoples from abroad. Our Health service is falling apart because it doesn't have sufficient funding - there's not enough money in the pot to look after everyone the way it was originally envisaged. Further population increases only makes the problem worse. Crime is going up especially those from outside of the EU. Unfortunately this is usually a black and East European problem. On the positive side, the immigration does bring in cheap labour to carry out tasks - manufacturing, farming, security, cleaning etc - that we can't afford to take up - which gives us the illusion of a certain amount of prosperity. The downside to it is that once they the immigrants realise that there are better paid jobs out there they grab them often using the racially devisive positive disrcimination laws to gain jobs that very often they are not qualified to do. (Known this from personal experience). Which leaves the indigenous population (whatever race, black, white, mixed etc) without jobs that they would otherwise have had. Many of the economic migrants are not well educated or cannot even speak the language (english).

Controlled immigration is fine, uncontrolled massed immigration is a danger to us all.
Uncontrolled immigration has been thrust upon us for a number of reasons. The first and primary reason is to destroy our national identity, it has also been done to destroy the concept of nation state. The final reason is the one the Labour have finally admitted to in that they were using immigration to create a situation in which immigrants (in this case largely muslim) would be grateful to Labour and so only vote for them and not say for the Tories or LibDems.

Limiting immigration is not racist. Halting all immigration is not feasible or desirable.
Halting all immigration from Pakistan, Middle-east and Somalia would be a much better approach. Stopping immigration from these lands won't stop islamification but it will slow it down and give us the chance to reverse it.

There is no legitimate reason for anyone coming to these shore other than genuine asylum seekers be allowed in. We need strict border controls that allow us to choose who and who doesn't come into our fair land. No asylum seeker should be allowed in unless he/she has first sought asylum in the nearest country to the one he/she is running from.
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ignominius
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Just give him something to debate....
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studio
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Whats the im/em ration at the moment, and is their a racial tally?

How do you feel about the east euro influx and its effect?

For now I will play the coloured person in the stack of wood destined for the fire, or words to that effect, till Globos decides to join
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Another excellent post ignominous.
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ENUFisENUF
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Globos, in the Rugby forum, posted this at 20:10 in a topic entitled ''EDL website''

''To all the members of the EDL website thanks for the banning.

You are incapable of discussing anything and some of the opinions expressed there are quite frankly disgusting. So you can carry on discussing planet rugby as much as you like.

On top of DAC it turns out we have another seasoned member amongst us who has build up quite a large post collection.''



I really hope he wasn't banned, wecould handle his type with noproblems. No need to ban him, the truth prevails. The truth denyers either leave 'cos they can't argue back or they leave 'cos they can't argue back.
We need to keepthese morons in our midst, otherwise they go crying back to their mummy forums saying EDL bans the truth.
WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO HIDE.
“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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He hasn't been banned, he's been put on moderation. I'm not approving stupid posts by him that are nothing to do with this. I will approve posts that are to do with this, not ones that say "i cant believe ur not letting me post" and "can i post" so get your facts right globos
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ignominius
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Thanks Ash....I don't know the exact figures or the ratio, but I do remember that immigration dwarfs emmigration. Those leaving these shores are largely indigenous Brits leaving our island - although they are not the totality.

As for Eastern European peoples coming here, I don't really have a problem with them, although I think the numbers should be better controlled. The one big problem I see with those coming from Eastern Europe and I have personal experience (again) of this, is those illegals coming here from Albania - they come here either under the pretence of being Kosovon or they head for Italy and get a European passport and then enter the country legally. If I can find this out for myself I dont believe for one instant that the borders agency can't or doesn't already know about this. Yet nothing is being done.

What I believe is that most immigration, particularly from Africa is economic. These people need to be helped in their own country. We need, as one of the wealthy western nations, help African states to build their countries so that they are on par with ours, so that the need to migrate is gone. We need to improve their housing, infrastructure and trade arrangements. Help them set up industries and business so that the African nations become prosperous. This puts an onus on the Africans to learn to be good citizens, to learn proper governance and to shun bribery and corruption.

As for immigration from the Muslim states, this should be halted completely. There is no reason for any of these people to be coming to this country. There is no legitimate reason and it should be stopped. Simple as. Each case should be examined on a merit basis as the odd doctor or lawyer or engineer may be able to add to our economy and our way of life but largely from those islamic states are not worth allowing in.
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studio
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What about imigration from India v's Pakistan. any idea on numbers there?

Trade development would be a better benefit than the current open door policy
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He has been banned now, not because we are not capable of holding an arguement, simply because were better then that. You will never get it into a commies head, its pointless. From his posts on the other forum all he was after was leaderships name, not a debate. I understand you all wanted a debate with him, but why waste your time? He's only just been banned so he isn't intellectual enough to realise when he has a ban or not.

Anyway he is gone now, but theres no reason this topic can't be turned into a debate without him.
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studio
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Thanks Ash, His input would have been helpful if only from the foot stamping end of the debate

iain
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Wasn't about foot stamping the end of a debate Iain. It was not a debate he was interested in.
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I feel immigrants should only be allowed in to do jobs that there are very few workers that are British and skilled at the job. I think the British workers should be put first as most immigrants from eastern europe send the money back to there own countries and do not put anything back in our economey.
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ENUFisENUF
Apr 16 2010, 11:25 PM
Globos, in the Rugby forum, posted this at 20:10 in a topic entitled ''EDL website''

''To all the members of the EDL website thanks for the banning.

You are incapable of discussing anything and some of the opinions expressed there are quite frankly disgusting. So you can carry on discussing planet rugby as much as you like.

On top of DAC it turns out we have another seasoned member amongst us who has build up quite a large post collection.''



I really hope he wasn't banned, wecould handle his type with noproblems. No need to ban him, the truth prevails. The truth denyers either leave 'cos they can't argue back or they leave 'cos they can't argue back.
We need to keepthese morons in our midst, otherwise they go crying back to their mummy forums saying EDL bans the truth.
WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO HIDE.
No, they need to be banned. Do not give them a platform to troll.
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studio
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Ash17
Apr 16 2010, 11:44 PM
Wasn't about foot stamping the end of a debate Iain. It was not a debate he was interested in.
True, this is also something we should look into in earnest so although i would welcome alternate views, his would be a hindrance rather than an addition.

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studio
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Apr 16 2010, 11:25 PM
Globos, in the Rugby forum, posted this at 20:10 in a topic entitled ''EDL website''

''To all the members of the EDL website thanks for the banning.

You are incapable of discussing anything and some of the opinions expressed there are quite frankly disgusting. So you can carry on discussing planet rugby as much as you like.

On top of DAC it turns out we have another seasoned member amongst us who has build up quite a large post collection.''



Gave him my personal reply
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studio
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And then I was banned :)
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studio
Apr 16 2010, 11:59 PM
And then I was banned :)
You gotta be joking?
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studio
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Nope, My IP is banned so I cant even see if my post is still there.

I posted that it was over an hour between his moderation and banning, and that he was banned an hour after his post claiming it.

That I had started this thread and that we would continue to debate the issues intelligently

I took umbrage at his accusation of racism

I got banned, Rugby is big in Islam it would seem, hope its a league site as I am a union man myself, ho hum
Edited by studio, Apr 17 2010, 12:08 AM.
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Can someone please tell me who DAC is?

It's killing me...
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studio
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It was a previous poster on there who got banned for racism, they tried to stick him and SI as the same.
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Dopey Arsehole Corporation.
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ENUFisENUF
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Is this what y6ou posted against globos,Studio?

''As a point of fact, you were 'Moderated' for over an hour and actually got banned about 10 mins ago (11.35 ish)

I actually started the thread you asked for, a coherent debate on immigration in the UK. I will continue to take part, and as with a vast majority of posters there, it will be intelligent and based on government or nationally recognised facts.

I am sorry that you feel the need to create conflict rather than debate, but I do wish to take umbrage at your assertion I am a Racist.

In every environment there are various shades of light and dark. It is immature to tar the whole with the shade of the few, but it is something I have to accept.''


It's still there, mate. lol, nice one.
“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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ENUFisENUF
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globos replied
''Utter rubbish, You are infested with the scum of British society and are incapable of even put in a reply more than 2 words.

You give nothing to the country and will no doubt end up in jail where you belong you scumbags. ''

I'm waiting for my membership to be okayed, then I'll join in.
“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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studio
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Maybe you will last longer than my 4 mins.... :)

no wonder my wife is always pissed off
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I agree with what ignominius said about africa. It is important to add that whilst their are regimes, i will use Zimbabwe as a case to point, who are controlled by a dictator, who at any opportunity will use the funds provided from foreign aid to build another mansion , or steal the food provided for the poor to feed the soilders .... and supplying weapons instead of feeding the people that need need it most, there needs to be a better way to control how that aid gets to the people that need it ...

Ethiopia is a classic point, the land there is in fact pretty fertile and they do have the ability to grow their crops with the right equipment and so forth, but how much of the money raise by band aid actually landed on the doorstep of those people that really needed it .....

We cant just continue pumping money at something for it to be abused .... its not sustainable, and its not healthy for those that really matter. The UN should be sending troops to these very countries to help them restore some sense of order, to prevent the blatant abuse by the so called dicators, but in the same hand let the poeple decide who should government them via democratic elections, none of this putting in a western puppet.... because again we will have the same problem as we have had with iraq, iran and so forth, where we have meddled and it has backfired spectacularly ...

Now for my pov on the issue of immigration.

First thing that needs to be consiodered before any immigration can be considered is the ability of the country to actually support the influx and maintain a reasonble standard of living for the current inhabitants of the country in question ...

Any immigration as a result of death threats, or war situations i welcome with open arms, because this is what i would expect from another country if ever i were to be threatened in this way. What is key to this is that these immigrants should be treated as temporary stays, in that once the war ceases, or the threat to their lives cease to exist they should return back to their native country.

Immigration that helps us to support our services, and improves / brings much needed skills should also be allowed. This however must work in tandem with the need to ensure that the education system is geared to help fill the skill shortfalls were they are clearly needed.

Those that enter the country illegally should not be allowed to wander freely and should be detained in a holding center until their immigration status can be determined. Illegal immigration is i feel the biggest problem for the UK. We just do not know how many have come, and who they are .. this is a danger to our way of life not just as a matter of security but also a matter of health. Some poele are coming from countries that have exotic diseases, or diseases that are not controlled, TBis a good case to point. The burden this places on out health service because of these 'unscreened' visitors entering the country is worrying. We have worked hard to eradicate some of the worse diseases know to man and this is put under serious threat as a result ... TB is an unpleasant killer ....

Any imported animals / plants are placed on quarantine to protect the native species the same should apply also to immigrants. This is just sheer common sense.

All immigrants that want to remain in the UK indefinitely should be made to swear allegiance to the flag/queen ... and there should be clear guidelines in relation you conduct of them and their immediate family in the fist 10 yrs, any breach of law or threat to our security should be treated with expulsion not only to the person committing the offence but to the intimidate family ...

Immigration should also be capped, i dont agree with an immigration amnesty and i would like a more stringent points based system on par with what they have in other countries i.e. Australia..

And finally, no immigration policy should allow for the destruction of the culture, all immigrants must abide by the law of the land. You dont want to abide by the law of the land then i am sorry .. you are not welcome ...
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studio
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Good post, i am a bit tired to digest fully but the gist is great
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ENUFisENUF
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Good grief......I was banned from the Thugby Forum within three minutes. I beat you by one minute, Studio.
I, just like you, was not aggressive or confrontational.
This globos is obviously in charge and doesn't want anyone making sense or questioning him.
Last I looked that was fascism????

I hope some of the regulars in that group pay us a visit and take globos to task.
“Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”-Thomas Jefferson
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He thinks he's a big fish cuz he mods a rugby forum. He came here to brag to his friends.
Fucking dope.
His method of 'debate' was to ask for your opinions then slag them off. He's more ideologically vacuous than an amoeba.
We offered him the floor a few times and he didn't take it.
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studio
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If you would like to take up the mantle for him 1AUK, maybe as the portal for his writing?

iain
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studio
Apr 17 2010, 05:20 PM
If you would like to take up the mantle for him 1AUK, maybe as the portal for his writing?

iain
Strange how 1AUK pops up soon as Globos gets his proxy.
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studio
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A few have come over looking. His posting over there leaves a bit to be desired educationally. Some are going to come and see how near to the mark his wild accusations are. I had hoped he would not get banned, but as he was only interested in conflict It was inevitable.

Lets give people the benefit of the doubt until they start showing the trolling side. Remember some people argue a point just to see your stance, I do it all the time. We need our beliefs questioned if only to reaffirm there legitimacy

iain

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Anxiety86
Apr 17 2010, 05:25 PM
studio
Apr 17 2010, 05:20 PM
If you would like to take up the mantle for him 1AUK, maybe as the portal for his writing?

iain
Strange how 1AUK pops up soon as Globos gets his proxy.
:D
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Anxiety86
Apr 17 2010, 05:25 PM
studio
Apr 17 2010, 05:20 PM
If you would like to take up the mantle for him 1AUK, maybe as the portal for his writing?

iain
Strange how 1AUK pops up soon as Globos gets his proxy.
Give people the benefit of the doubt.

He has claimed he is interested in hearing about the EDL and Islam and we are in no position to accuse him of anything else unless he provokes us to do so.
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studio
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I always forget to quote people so end up talking to myself, elf,elf,elf
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1AUK
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studio
Apr 17 2010, 05:20 PM
If you would like to take up the mantle for him 1AUK, maybe as the portal for his writing?

iain
Thanks but no thanks, like I said in my other post I've just come on to find out more about the EDL and Islam.

I will probably go with a few lads to Aylesbury and see for my self.
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Bob England
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1AUK
Apr 17 2010, 06:15 PM
studio
Apr 17 2010, 05:20 PM
If you would like to take up the mantle for him 1AUK, maybe as the portal for his writing?

iain
Thanks but no thanks, like I said in my other post I've just come on to find out more about the EDL and Islam.

I will probably go with a few lads to Aylesbury and see for my self.
So you like rugby mate? ^o)

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9665/englandrugby.png
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studio
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I do too, odd shaped balls n all that. When I was a kid the rugby club bar was open at different times to the pub so daddy dearest made me play rugby
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Bob England
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studio
Apr 17 2010, 06:31 PM
I do too, odd shaped balls n all that. When I was a kid the rugby club bar was open at different times to the pub so daddy dearest made me play rugby
Now thats one reason to get into it lol! :D
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It's funny how he's still trying to imply he's more intelligent than us. :D :D

You were MERKED bruv, propa MERKED.
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