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How would you help Muslims intergrate?
Topic Started: Apr 14 2010, 06:43 PM (2,284 Views)
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peterpedant
Apr 16 2010, 09:08 PM
Knuckles
Apr 16 2010, 08:58 PM
I think some muslim lads certainly want to integrate with everyone else. The lads I went to school with did. But I don't know (and should've asked about) the cultural and community pressures of not integrating. I'm sure there is a ton of peer and other sorts of pressure.

If I was them, I would just dump it and be with people who actually care about them, not with people who want them to conform to a stringent doctrine.
I agree. Dump it because Qur'an says they are going to the hell fire anyway. They may as well embrace humanity and enjoy the life they have here with the rest of us ;)
I'd say the same to anyone of religious persuasion, BUT I feel it's more relevant with Islam as they are openly intolerant in the ways that your pictures show.

If there was any other nation based on religious principles that persecuted people in this way, I'd be fighting against that too.
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Knuckles
Apr 16 2010, 09:09 PM
Just cuz Henchman has a different view to you doesn't mean he's a commie, which I assume the 'comrade' title is aiming at?

That's f**king immature at best.
Maybe you missed the earlier posts he made against others with a different view to his. If you bothered to read them you would know i was being sarcastic.

And there is no need to swear either. Thats childish.

Come on, play nicely with the others. ;)
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I always swear hahaha

I do enjoy these threads though. Some of the heated stuff is, of course, sideline fluff, but you all pull out the issues well on both sides.


Salutations,

Comrade Knuckles
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peterpedant
Apr 16 2010, 09:03 PM
clee39
Apr 16 2010, 08:50 PM
whats he done?
stole a loaf of bread or refused to marry an 8 year old?
They were hung for being gay. I was responding to comrade Henchmans post.
:'(
oh dear!

yet anyone who rapes/marries an 8 year old is a good guy!

islam-the religion of the backwards retarded perverted stoneage brainwashed murdering halfwits -
coming to a neighbourhood near you!



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Knuckles
Apr 16 2010, 09:16 PM
I do enjoy these threads though. Some of the heated stuff is, of course, sideline fluff, but you all pull out the issues well on both sides.


Salutations,

Comrade Knuckles
Me too. This thread certainly has legs, its been going on for a couple of days now. Lots of good information being shared. That's what its all about i suppose.

"Comrade Knuckles?" LOL! :D




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studio
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These threads are always good. I dont like the petty name calling and 'im more EDL than you' displayed at times though.
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That globos character has been posting on this thread

http://forum.planet-rugby.com/index.php?t=msg&th=188809&prevloaded=1&&start=120

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Agreed. I looked back at some of the comments and it seems that people who haven't been to demos have less validation to comment than those who have.
We all have something to offer the EDL, whether its ideas, money or bodies on demos, for example.

I know it's good to reply with passion and quickly to keep the momentum flowing, but sometimes one has to cool off before posting or go back and edit.
I've done both on numerous occasions.
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Sob: thanks for the link. That's totally shown where he's coming from. Formulate a negative hypothesis, then gather supporting data by poking and prodding in a condescending manner.

The level of ignorance is highlighted by the preconception of the link to Stormfront.

If I had people working for me who formed conclusions on a miniscule percentage of the available data, I'd fire their arses.
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Sobieski
Apr 16 2010, 09:36 PM
That globos character has been posting on this thread

http://forum.planet-rugby.com/index.php?t=msg&th=188809&prevloaded=1&&start=120

Me and Anxiety saw it coming.. Easy : :D
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f**kin ell sobieski how did you find that? checkmate methinks ! well done sherlock.
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studio
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Knuckles
Apr 16 2010, 09:37 PM
Sob: thanks for the link. That's totally shown where he's coming from. Formulate a negative hypothesis, then gather supporting data by poking and prodding in a condescending manner.

The level of ignorance is highlighted by the preconception of the link to Stormfront.

If I had people working for me who formed conclusions on a miniscule percentage of the available data, I'd fire their arses.
speak English boi...
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kaimana1
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Crusader_86
Apr 16 2010, 09:46 PM
Sobieski
Apr 16 2010, 09:36 PM
That globos character has been posting on this thread

http://forum.planet-rugby.com/index.php?t=msg&th=188809&prevloaded=1&&start=120

Me and Anxiety saw it coming.. Easy : :D
:O EXPOSED!

great job crusader !
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globos
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howdin
Apr 16 2010, 09:52 PM
f**kin ell sobieski how did you find that? checkmate methinks ! well done sherlock.
Find what..i've said nothing there that i did not say here
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kaimana1
Apr 16 2010, 09:55 PM
Crusader_86
Apr 16 2010, 09:46 PM
Sobieski
Apr 16 2010, 09:36 PM
That globos character has been posting on this thread

http://forum.planet-rugby.com/index.php?t=msg&th=188809&prevloaded=1&&start=120

Me and Anxiety saw it coming.. Easy : :D
:O EXPOSED!

great job crusader !
What a tool, he even used the same handle LOL!
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globos
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peterpedant
Apr 16 2010, 09:56 PM
kaimana1
Apr 16 2010, 09:55 PM
Crusader_86
Apr 16 2010, 09:46 PM
:O EXPOSED!

great job crusader !
What a tool, he even used the same handle LOL!
Well yes.....
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kaimana1
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globos
Apr 16 2010, 09:56 PM
howdin
Apr 16 2010, 09:52 PM
f**kin ell sobieski how did you find that? checkmate methinks ! well done sherlock.
Find what..i've said nothing there that i did not say here
Globos Have you made this statement on this forum "globos
Messages: 1099
Registered: April 2006 Senior Member

"Join just to see how thick they are...have you seen their sister site Stormfront "


Like i said EXPOSED!!!
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studio
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I am not going to ask you to leave, I welcome you. Come, look, learn. Some posts fly close to the wind, but we are not racist. See a post your bothered about, hit the report button and action will be taken.

Oh and storm front, pussys, you want Blood and Honour. But they do like to knock on the door...
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"Join just to see how thick they are...have you seen their sister site Stormfront "

the supreme irony of that statement :$
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globos
Apr 16 2010, 09:56 PM
howdin
Apr 16 2010, 09:52 PM
f**kin ell sobieski how did you find that? checkmate methinks ! well done sherlock.
Find what..i've said nothing there that i did not say here
You said we're all thick but you've been intellectually demolished by pretty much everyone on here.

You just aint as bright as you think you are. Not even close, numpty.
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globos
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kaimana1
Apr 16 2010, 09:59 PM
globos
Apr 16 2010, 09:56 PM
howdin
Apr 16 2010, 09:52 PM
f**kin ell sobieski how did you find that? checkmate methinks ! well done sherlock.
Find what..i've said nothing there that i did not say here
Globos Have you made this statement on this forum "globos
Messages: 1099
Registered: April 2006 Senior Member

"Join just to see how thick they are...have you seen their sister site Stormfront "


Like i said EXPOSED!!!
I've raised valid points here in relation to the incident on Belgium on another thread and on the racism against whites thread which judging from the other posts is exactly the reason the vast majority of educated Britain have a negative opinion of you guys

Now if you are capable of entering in coherent debate on the immigration issues our country face then let's go ahead..if you want to live up to the stereotype of the movement being a meeting place for uneducated football thugs who want do get together and discuss how much they hate immigration but offer now realistic solutions then go ahead.

I understand there is an issue and am happy to discuss a solution with anyone capable of making sense.
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Told you he was a troll, was right again.
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globos
Apr 16 2010, 09:56 PM
howdin
Apr 16 2010, 09:52 PM
f**kin ell sobieski how did you find that? checkmate methinks ! well done sherlock.
Find what..i've said nothing there that i did not say here
read post 309 and explain how you came to arrive at this conclusion?

edited
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if he thinks stormfronts a 'sister site' he's not the sharpest tool in the box.
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globos
Apr 16 2010, 09:56 PM
howdin
Apr 16 2010, 09:52 PM
f**kin ell sobieski how did you find that? checkmate methinks ! well done sherlock.
Find what..i've said nothing there that i did not say here
well what have you found out you muppet? thought we were a bunch of knuckledraggers did you ? c'mon knobos i mean globus comparing us to stormfront you really do have the IQ of a gnat we've seen many trolls on here but you take the biscuit - you are officially the numbest troll we've had on here- do you want to post that on your home site?
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Globos,

Is your life so pathetic you must look champion to your pathetic "rugby" forum e-buddies? Is your life so lonely and boring the best entertainment you have is being a smelly little rodent on here?
We all had you sussed within your first 7 posts, so were not that "thick" now are we.

Seriously, why dont you get a life? I'm sure there is much better things you can do then sit on one forum trying to look big for joining a different one and trying to "fool" us, which you failed badly at by the way.

Why don't you sod off back to your rugby forum and tell them how hard you are for coming here. Your sussed, so go away.
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http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/oneworld22/Rugby/IrelandU20s_2010SixNationschampions.jpg?t=1269544043

f**king LOL

I imagine Globos to be one of these kind of pimple faced c**ts. Then he goes back in the showers after a rugby game to scrub down his team.
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Hey globos mr intellectual, where is your evidence that this is a sister site to Stormfront?

What's the matter, cat got your tongue?
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studio
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globos
Apr 16 2010, 10:10 PM


Now if you are capable of entering in coherent debate on the immigration issues our country face then let's go ahead..if you want to live up to the stereotype of the movement being a meeting place for uneducated football thugs who want do get together and discuss how much they hate immigration but offer now realistic solutions then go ahead.

I understand there is an issue and am happy to discuss a solution with anyone capable of making sense.
Ok I call you, start a new thread, no name calling etc, just facts and relevant opinions

iain
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studio
Apr 16 2010, 10:19 PM
globos
Apr 16 2010, 10:10 PM


Now if you are capable of entering in coherent debate on the immigration issues our country face then let's go ahead..if you want to live up to the stereotype of the movement being a meeting place for uneducated football thugs who want do get together and discuss how much they hate immigration but offer now realistic solutions then go ahead.

I understand there is an issue and am happy to discuss a solution with anyone capable of making sense.
Ok I call you, start a new thread, no name calling etc, just facts and relevant opinions

iain
Agreed, this threads been derailed enough.
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I think we've made globos cry.

Top dog on his rugger bugger site but very much the runt of the litter on here.

I hope he reassesses his life and does something positive with it.
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globos
Apr 16 2010, 10:10 PM
kaimana1
Apr 16 2010, 09:59 PM
globos
Apr 16 2010, 09:56 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Globos Have you made this statement on this forum "globos
Messages: 1099
Registered: April 2006 Senior Member

"Join just to see how thick they are...have you seen their sister site Stormfront "


Like i said EXPOSED!!!
I've raised valid points here in relation to the incident on Belgium on another thread and on the racism against whites thread which judging from the other posts is exactly the reason the vast majority of educated Britain have a negative opinion of you guys

Now if you are capable of entering in coherent debate on the immigration issues our country face then let's go ahead..if you want to live up to the stereotype of the movement being a meeting place for uneducated football thugs who want do get together and discuss how much they hate immigration but offer now realistic solutions then go ahead.

I understand there is an issue and am happy to discuss a solution with anyone capable of making sense.
is it groundhog day?

is it mankytoes again?

'im considerably more educated than you'

its like the wheels turning but the fkn hamsters dead :blink:

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Deleted User
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I think we should hear what he has to say for himself. But start a new thread.
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Here we go with the bulls**t again.

Eductaed Britiain bla bla

Yet another pompus c**t thinking he knows best.
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Lets forget about him and get back on topic people.
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peterpedant
Apr 16 2010, 10:30 PM
I think we should hear what he has to say for himself. But start a new thread.
HS will be along to demolish him (as usual)
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ignominius
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Now he's been rumbled as having been spreading the muck...he's run away...
Posted ImagePosted Image
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Anxiety86
Apr 16 2010, 10:10 PM
Told you he was a troll, was right again.
@Anxiety, troll monitor. :)

:bow: Another one bites the dust. :woohoo:
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clee39
Apr 16 2010, 10:34 PM
peterpedant
Apr 16 2010, 10:30 PM
I think we should hear what he has to say for himself. But start a new thread.
HS will be along to demolish him (as usual)
I wish I had the same opinion of my contribution. The whole thing is far too personal for me. I have to struggle to maintain a semblance of rationality.

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Knuckles
Apr 16 2010, 08:58 PM
I think some muslim lads certainly want to integrate with everyone else. The lads I went to school with did. But I don't know (and should've asked about) the cultural and community pressures of not integrating. I'm sure there is a ton of peer and other sorts of pressure.

If I was them, I would just dump it and be with people who actually care about them, not with people who want them to conform to a stringent doctrine.
I lived next door to a Muslim, Bangladeshi family for six years and they were the only Muslim family on the estate. In general they seemed a nice family, always spoke and were always polite. But what we did notice was how the two sons were treated a lot different from the two girls. The boys were allowed to go out and do their own thing, while the girls were kept in doors. While we were there we witnessed one of the daughters having an arranged marriage, and from what I witnessed it wasn't very pleasant. She was crying and screaming and passing out and had to be carried to her wedding ceremony. I was later told by her brother, that once married, she had to go and live with her husbands family. That's why she was so distraught. One day me and my partner heard loads of screaming and shouting coming from next door, we thought world war three had started. A couple of days later I asked the youngest son, if everything was ok because of all the shouting the day before. He then told me that his mother had got angry because his sister had put up an East 17 poster on her wall. We also noticed how every time our children played with our Muslim neighbours children, the mother would always bath them. From our back garden you could hear the kids complaining because she was scrubbing them so hard. It's only now after all these years, we have just realised it's because my children were dirty Kuffar.Both parents were born in Bangladesh but all the children were born here. The parents after living here for thirteen years, could barely speak a word of English. So my view is they will never integrate in a million years. Like I said the boys were allowed a lot more freedom, so it looks like they were integrating to a certain point but I bet when it comes to marriage, they will marry a Muslim girl or a White girl which will have to convert. We moved from that estate a few years back and occasionally bump into the oldest son, who has informed us of a family tragedy involving his sister, which I am not going to go into. You can't integrate people who don't want to integrate.
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waspish
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Homo Sapien
Apr 16 2010, 05:15 PM
henchman
Apr 16 2010, 01:31 PM
Do you know what ? I am growing tired your tedious droning about who you have and who you havent got doubts about , mate I couldnt give two f**ks . I know exactly who you are so at the next demo I can make ill do you the favour of introducing myself so to let you know that I am indeed a real human being and further more I am right behind thel just and proper reason this organisation exists in the first place . Your entitled to believe what you like but it strikes me that your carrying around a rather large chip on your shoulder due to Islams view on queer folk . I have news for you in that respect and it is that millions and millions and millions of people do not agree with homosexual acts and all that goes with , sorry if this upsets you but your going to have to deal with it ........remember free speech ? I myself simply find it amusing but you crack on with whatever makes you happy .
For someone who goes on about supposed right-wing head cases at EDL demos or supposedly sitting watching this thread, you seem very gleeful at the idea of the homophobic savages around the world.

I couldn't care less if millions of people don't agree with homosexuality. It has f**k all to do with them. The point about civilization is that we don't go sticking our noses into what consensual adults do. It's why muslims don't belong here - they can't stop themselves from passing judgement on others and from trying to convert people.

The longer I spend on this forum hearing apologists for islam, the more I find the idea of mass deportation appealling. You clearly haven't met the gay muslims whose lives are destroyed by their familiy's hatred. You haven't met the gay muslims who have been subjected to death threats. If you're not intolerant of that, I don't think you have any place in this movement. Tell me, do you have to contemplate that any of your neighbours could be planning to kill you? Gay people are on the front line of islamic intolerance.

It appears that you want homophobes to have free speech, but you think people on this forum shouldn't have the free speech to criticize islam and muslims. I guess in your view, some animals are more equal than others. Do you think homos are somehow deserving of hatred, but muslims aren't?

I look forward to you introducing yourself to me at the next demo. I've met nothing but really wonderful people at EDL demos. And I've met none of the right-wing racists you claim to see. In fact, I'm astonished by the number of people I meet through EDL who are strongly opposed to the BNP. I'm sure there must be some BNP supporters at EDL demos, but I don't get to meet them, and it's not like I am a knee-jerk opponent of the BNP, so there's no reason they should lie to me. I've met less opposition to the BNP amongst friends and family than I've met amongst EDL people.

Finally, can you tell me which demos you have been to since you joined in August 2009? I'd like to know what bad experiences you have had that would make your opinion of EDL supporters be so wildly divergent to my own. Feel free to PM me if you would rather this thread continued to discuss what should be done to get muslims to integrate.
well said that man.... ;)
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studio
Apr 16 2010, 08:21 PM
Homo Sapien
Apr 16 2010, 08:09 PM
But personally I don't believe that muslims are really so much more criminal than the rest of the population, that they would be 3x over-represented in the prison statistics. I find it far more plausible to believe they are actually here in greater numbers.
Crap criminals, drug dealers and insurance fraudsters.

What would you estimate the pop at? 5% - 6%?
I have no other information to go on than I stated.

11% of all meat was halal in 2005. 12% of all criminals in 2009 were muslims.

The 2001 census showed they were 3% of the population. I don't believe that 4 years later they were eating 2x as much meat as everyone else (allowing for other consumers of halal meat). We keep being told they are economically disadvantaged, so it would stand to reason they are eating less meat than average. Given the census figures from 2001, and the meat figures from 2005, it would stand to reason that by now the % of meat that is halal is closer to 20%

Assuming they eat slightly less meat then average, and allowing for the meat used in restaurants, schools, etc. then it seems reasonable to me that they are 10% of the population.

I thought I had run over this line of reasoning to the point of boring everyone. We'll know "the facts" in 2012.

I fully expect a BNP government by 2015. Black people can then blame muslims for that, and muslims can blame themselves. I'll blame the Three Stooges for not having a spine between them.
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studio
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The meat in the local cash and carry is very cheap, plus there are more kebab shops/take aways now, so a certain amount of the consumption is non muslim. I think Hollands also do a hala range for their pies.

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Some very interesting and in depth replies there which made for a lively debate . HS I fully realise that for you personally this fight really must drive straight to your heart in regards of your gender and what you must have overcome and witnessed as you have grown up as an openly gay man , however me being not gay gives me , rightly or wrongly a slightly differing angle on things which causes me to raise my eyebrows at some of the inclement action you would be willing to take against anyone who sees homosexually activity as dubious . To answer your vague assertion that I too am slightly uncomfortable around gay people then I will admit that yes sometimes I am but I would never let that affect my judgement on them as people , ever .

Also to the bloke who seemed to equate what I had said as me being willing to see gay men executed in the street for merely being themselves ? Get a grip and have a word with yourself I thought that was plumbing the depths .

I am far , far , far from a communist .
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lancashirelad
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On the question 'how would i help muslims integrate' my answers simple i wouldnt.
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studio
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lancashirelad
Apr 17 2010, 10:05 AM
On the question 'how would i help muslims integrate' my answers simple i wouldnt.
My initial thoughts were along those lines as well. But as I sit here longer I see that moves have been made historically to allow integration...

Now the questions is more

Should we encourage more integration, and if so how?
Should we leave the situation for now and see how it goes?

or

Should we reassess our actions historically, with mind to undo some as irrelevant due to lack of take up?

I am for 3, but with a heavy dose of 1
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henchman
Apr 17 2010, 09:09 AM
Some very interesting and in depth replies there which made for a lively debate . HS I fully realise that for you personally this fight really must drive straight to your heart in regards of your gender and what you must have overcome and witnessed as you have grown up as an openly gay man , however me being not gay gives me , rightly or wrongly a slightly differing angle on things which causes me to raise my eyebrows at some of the inclement action you would be willing to take against anyone who sees homosexually activity as dubious . To answer your vague assertion that I too am slightly uncomfortable around gay people then I will admit that yes sometimes I am but I would never let that affect my judgement on them as people , ever .

Also to the bloke who seemed to equate what I had said as me being willing to see gay men executed in the street for merely being themselves ? Get a grip and have a word with yourself I thought that was plumbing the depths .

I am far , far , far from a communist .
OH DEARY ME. ;)
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studio
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Pour qua Mrgarygibbon
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s**te answer that lad B-)
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henchman
Apr 17 2010, 09:09 AM
me being not gay gives me , rightly or wrongly a slightly differing angle on things which causes me to raise my eyebrows at some of the inclement action you would be willing to take against anyone who sees homosexually activity as dubious . To answer your vague assertion that I too am slightly uncomfortable around gay people then I will admit that yes sometimes I am but I would never let that affect my judgement on them as people , ever .

Also to the bloke who seemed to equate what I had said as me being willing to see gay men executed in the street for merely being themselves ? Get a grip and have a word with yourself I thought that was plumbing the depths .
I think that your own homophobia does prejudice you to be far more sympathetic to those who hate homos, than it does to homos who hate homophobes. Yet homos who hate homophobes are only acting in self-defence. The homophobes are the ones who are attacking the human rights of gay people.

Let's take the example of Turkey. Turkey is considered to not even be a muslim country (constitutionally it is secular), and is seen as being one of the most western and most tolerant countries that has a predominantly muslim population. It (and many european leaders) think it should be in the EU. [Personally, I think it is likely to be a fully islamic state within 20 years.]

The Turkish penal code does not mention homosexuality as an offence (nor does it provide any protection towards homosexuals).

Ahmet Yildiz's father travelled across Turkey to wait outside his son's apartment so he could kill him, because Ahmet was known to be gay: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/was-ahmet-yildiz-the-victim-of-turkeys-first-gay-honour-killing-871822.html . [Whilst The Independent naively repeats that this is the first Turkish "honour killing", I've no doubt it isn't. It's just that the hundreds who have been killed by their backward families living to the east of Istanbul were not renowned in their own country for publicly championing gay rights. Their deaths will have been hushed up by the local police.]

There have been 45 known homophobic murders in Turkey in the past 3 years: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/was-ahmet-yildiz-the-victim-of-turkeys-first-gay-honour-killing-871822.html . By comparison I can only think of 4 homophobic murders that occurred in the UK in the past 3 years (of course, I want the death penalty for the perpetrators of those 4 murders). You can't even explain away this massive discrepancy between Turkey and the UK by population difference (Turkey has about 14 million more people than the UK: http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:TUR&dl=en&hl=en&q=turkey+population+statistics#met=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:TUR:GBR).

Meanwhile, as the muslim population of London continues to spread eastwards, the number of homophobic crimes in those areas has gone up by almost 200% and most of the gay bars have closed down. In the only survey I know which asked gay people in east London about homophobia, it reported that only 34% of them were not afraid to go out at night, and many identified religious hatred (particularly islamic) as the cause of the violence. http://www.sigmaresearch.org.uk/go.php/reports/report2010a

We know for a fact that 25% of mosques in the UK are selling literature calling for the execution of gay men. We know for a fact that there are muslim leaders in major mosques across the UK telling their followers that homos should be executed. We know for a fact that the MCB refuses to tackle homophobia in amongst muslim organizations. Is it any surprise that muslims take these attitudes out on homos they come across? I've documented elsewhere in this forum some of the vicious homophobic violence in east london (model left disfigured, gay man paralysed for life after being stabbed by 7 muslims, etc.).

You belittle the threat to gay people from muslims ("sees homosexually activity as dubious"). The survey of muslims which I referenced earlier did not find one muslim who was tolerant - if a survey was carried out of EDL supporters and not one of them was tolerant towards muslims, you would once again be denouncing this group as right-wing and Nazis.

How come you aren't denouncing all muslims as right-wing and Nazis?

Why is it that muslims can be totally hostile to one group, but another group can't be totally hostile to muslims?
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