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Who are we?
Topic Started: Apr 6 2010, 09:00 PM (105 Views)
made in England
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made in England
Before you read this little snippet ive found the researcher Oppenheimer is not that credible and to be taken with a pinch of salt.

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2006/10/mythsofbritishancestry/
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

Werian se Angelcynn
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Hildebeorht
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Everything you know about British and Irish ancestry is wrong. Our ancestors were Basques, not Celts. The Celts were not wiped out by the Anglo-Saxons, in fact neither had much impact on the genetic stock of these islands/


Although I havn't read the book, judging from what I have read and what I have heard, what Oppenheimer proposes is that there was no central European Halstatt or La La Tène "Celtic" homeland, rather, this culture originated in south western Europe, primarily, the Iberian peninsula, and that it reached the British Isles long before the iron age - I also don't think our ancestors being Basque is the point that Oppenheimer was making. He isn't saying "we're all Basques!" he's saying we descend from Paleolithic Iberians best represented today by the Basque people, and he also emphasises that the Scandinavian input to our genetic heritage has been massively underestimated.

He describes two main zones of contact in regards to ourselves; a) the Atlantic fringe - from the land that makes modern day Spain and Portugal, to the western British Isles and b) Northern Europe - originally across Doggerland to eastern (modern day) England, and then from Scandinavia to northern Scotland.

I think Oppenheimer's suggestion that a Germanic language was spoken in the southern parts of Britian, what is today England, prior to the Anglo-Saxon migration is pretty daft, but interesting none the less - and it does shed a new light on why there are hardly any, if any, loan words from indigenous British, or Celtic, languages in the Germanic English language.
Edited by Hildebeorht, Apr 6 2010, 09:44 PM.
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ignominius
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Some bits of what he writes is probably correct. There is however still very much a huge debate the celts and their origins. One observation for instance is that the Welsh tend to be short, with dark and usually curly hair. This is more reminisicent of the peoples of Spain than of say central/northern europe. The Welsh are definitely different from the Scots and the Irish. The red hair associated with Celts comes from the Caucusus areas of Russia. So it's possible that is their origins and are not of celtic extraction at all. Independent studies of the genetic make up of the British isles show that the north was heavily populated by Norwegian and Danish vikings whilst in the south it tends to be more Frisian/Middle German.

With the Norman invasion, the Normans were very few in number and so their genetic input is very small. So the Romano-British/Saxon blood line remains much as it was from around the 5th century. The Saxon invasion had a bigger impact than he gives it credit but again he is largely correct in saying that the vast majority of the population remained the same Romano-Britons of the old empire.
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Flub
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We are a huge mixed pot of DNA. My interest is where we are going, cos we got no choice in where we came from, only thing is the fact that we are here at all is testimony to the fact that our ancestors were hardy sods.

Heritage wise I am proud to be a mongrel, I have blue eyes, brown hair that is curly, when I grow a beard its red and my chest hair is dark brown and the hair on me arms n legs is blonde!

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Hildebeorht
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Flub
Apr 6 2010, 10:13 PM
We are a huge mixed pot of DNA. My interest is where we are going, cos we got no choice in where we came from, only thing is the fact that we are here at all is testimony to the fact that our ancestors were hardy sods.

Heritage wise I am proud to be a mongrel, I have blue eyes, brown hair that is curly, when I grow a beard its red and my chest hair is dark brown and the hair on me arms n legs is blonde!


Would you call a person of mixed ethnicity a mongrel? ;)

Probably not.

I wouldn't say the English are mongrels mate, no more so or less so than any other peoples on this earth - and to call everyone a mongrel would be to entirely remove the significance of the term.

Yes, where we are going is more important than from where we came.
Edited by Hildebeorht, Apr 6 2010, 10:46 PM.
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ignominius
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Very true. By the governments own admission that 20,000 people a month are coming to these islands , legally and illegally and that equates to around half a million new people annually. Most of these come from Turkey and the Middle-east, Muslim Nigeria, Somalia and Pakistan. Why in God's name are we letting them in ? How are they adding to the richness of British life and culture?
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Flub
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Nah Hildebeorht not a case of labelling mixed ethnicity or any race a "mongrel" more of a statement that most peeps on the planet are a mad hotchpot of all the people who have ever been.

What I was trying to get accross its a culture that develops over centries that has more to do with outlook on life than genetic heritage.

To me the big issue isn't a persons ethnicity but her or his thoughts feelings and allegance to a group of common morals and customs that over time define a country, regions culture.

And that if we allow a culture to express itself without being challenged, or being able to hold itself up to scrutiny we loose part of our own wider culture, fundemantal Islamists fall into this category in my mind, and as the politicians and police and security forces have not stepped in to say, "hang on" I am glad that the founding members of the EDL started the push back.



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ignominius
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The problem is multiculturalism. Most people think of multiculturalism as multiracism or multiethnicism which it is not. Culture is what binds us together as a group or nation. If you have many cultures existing side by side, then the cohesion of the group or nation is lost. All you have are small groups who exist side-by-side without having much interaction.

Multi-race society is okay, but multiculturalism is not. We need our government who ever it is after May 6 to re-impose British culture on society and get rid of this nonesense called multiculturalism.
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Flub
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ignominius
Apr 7 2010, 11:37 AM
The problem is multiculturalism. Most people think of multiculturalism as multiracism or multiethnicism which it is not. Culture is what binds us together as a group or nation. If you have many cultures existing side by side, then the cohesion of the group or nation is lost. All you have are small groups who exist side-by-side without having much interaction.

Multi-race society is okay, but multiculturalism is not. We need our government who ever it is after May 6 to re-impose British culture on society and get rid of this nonesense called multiculturalism.
Hit the nail on the head mate!
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nottz_ben
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That article talks like us being from Indo-european stock is new information?! What do they think all those tribes are? There bloody indo-european! It's only logical when you accept that human begun in Africa. Lol they talk as if we think the celts or saxons just appeared out of nowhere, of course our ancestors imigrated to this Island and of course it is a wide mix of tribes and remnants of invaders!

I think these people expect us to consider that everything before 0AD is more significant that what happened after. Gosh am I to feel affiliation to the mutated fish that give rise to us more so than my ancestry of the last 1000 years? Whatever our personal ancestry is, is one thing. Who we are culturally is something else. Where ever your ancestors come from is your story and whatever that story is it's worth honoring and my ancestry is that of this country for as long as things have been recorded which means I'll be more of this nation than elsewhere because it my recorded story, and everyone will always feel closer to that than the musings based upon geneology. And my genology still means I'm more of this country than elsewhere and more of this country than a 2nd generation immigrant. If I found out I was wrong and for unknown reason I was a 2nd generation immigrant I'd celebrate that too, but I'd still call myself English because it is all I know and I'm proud of that Identity.

What that article does is appicable to every nation on this earth.
www.youtube.com/justb3nji

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ignominius
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Couldn't agree more. For me English history starts with the Election of Harold II as King of England - Harold is one of the great generals of history. His only mistake was to rush down from Stamford Bridge after kicking the pooh out of the Vikings and then trying to take on the Normans before he had time to draw breath. What makes it all the worse is that he almost won that battle. If only the fyrd had held the line instead of believing that they had the victory already!

But back on topic...distinct English culture only emerges around 7th and 8th centuries and becomes distinctive with the reign of Alfred who was truly a great king and a great man - a rare combination in history. The more you read about him the more you wish there was someone like that to lead us today!
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AnnwynAvalonAlbion
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Lets talk some facts here! W
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AnnwynAvalonAlbion
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Who are we? Well, lets look at population! when the Romans invaded this island, it's estimated that the population was well short of a million! probably of Celtic and ancient British stock(you know, the guys who built stone henge etc), it's true, the roman empire stretched from the med to Africa, and the middle east, so no-body's denying an influx of lots of DNA, However, 500 yrs later, when the Anglo Saxons came, the population was still very small, possibly, two million max!!! and even with the Vikings and Normans etc, it didn't grow too much! by the time of the great plague, which wiped out a third of the population of these islands, the population was still less than a few million!!! So, whether or not you can call us a 'pure' race, or not, the facts are, by the Victorian period we'd reached 40 million, and those were, on the whole, direct descendants of the 2 million previously mentioned?! There were NO major influxes of people between the 19Th century and 1947, so all those who trace their ancestors prior to this date are pretty much assured True British Ancestry! and this bulls**t that we,re all a nation of immigrants, is propaganda! We're all brothers! more closely connected than any other people on earth!!! Check out a recent study of DNA from Somerset folk around Cheddar?! they have the same DNA as the oldest remains found in the Cheddar Caves!!! that's a pre-historic link, and I believe we all have this link! DON'T BE FOOLED BY THE LIBERAL ELITES PROPOGANDA THAT DENIES YOUR ROOTS! WE ARE A PEOPLE! AND THIS IS OUR LAND! BLESSED BE! CHILDREN OF ALBION!
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