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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 4 2010, 03:39 AM (1,879 Views) | |
| mankytoes | Apr 4 2010, 03:39 AM Post #1 |
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Hiya, i'm an outsider here, and i'm unsure of my view of the EDL. I'm generally quite liberal leaning, so not really your taget audience, but I certainly understand the problems with radical Islam, i'm just concerned about the majority of muslims. I mean is this group just about radical Islam, really? I mean straight away I read about KFC and halal. Whatever your thoughts on halal, it's not an extremism issue. It's possibly an animal rights issue, but as you aren't taking on any other animal rights issues I am assuming you picked on it because it regards muslims, which kinda brings up the "Islamophobia" word you are clearly hoping to avoid. In another thread I clicked on I see the guy supports the BNP- no one picks on him for it, which is a bit concerning, I believe offically you distance yourselves from them, but is that really the attitude of the general members? I know muslims are the main minority the BNP targets, which is again a bit worrying. Obviously you'll get a few right wing twat tagalongs, that's inevitable, i'm just trying to work out if they have any swing in the group. My other main concern is that any anti-Islamism legislation, which you seem to promote, would, however well intentioned, actually lead to more separation, extremism and threat of terrorism. If you want to know a bit about me, i'm 19, a politics student (so typical knowitall dicks, I know), not in any extreme group or anything, I looked into UAF because I do consider myself anti-fascist, but had the same kind of objections you guys have, I asked them about their attitude to what I consider the Islamic equivalent of the BNP and National Front, and got no answer, i'm hoping you guys are a bit more helpful. Thanks. |
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| tynie1874 | Apr 4 2010, 03:42 AM Post #2 |
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Kafir
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I think actually he left the BNP to join the EDL. For which I told him to get back to the BNP as he is not wanted here. Obviously not read enough topics. |
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Patriotism is not racism. For Queen and Country British Muslim? No such thing. Scottish Defence League Kilmarnock was a success onwards and upwards. RIP James Waddel | |
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| mankytoes | Apr 4 2010, 03:49 AM Post #3 |
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I haven't read that many, fair play, the first I clicked on is a few down now, a guy saying "the right wing politicans like the BNP will hopefully have some representation in parliament", and no one said anything to him. But as you're an anti-Islamism group, and the BNP is now a largely anti-Islam political party, I think you have to consider it may be difficult to avoid overlap- you appear to not be racist, at least not the in the black/white sense, but you sound fairly similar to them on matters of Islam. |
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| tynie1874 | Apr 4 2010, 04:04 AM Post #4 |
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Kafir
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There main targets, For which demo/march against. One of Islan UK's most well known man or at least im sure alot of people know him. Anjem'Wanker'Choudry. Who is a judge in one of many sharia courts in Britain. They plan to treble the amount of courts they have for sharia in the next 1-2 years. I will below post a video of what he and his Radical friends wish to do to our great nation. Remembering that our friends/family are away fighting wars overseas against people who are in our shores. This aswell needs to be addressed. Immigration on a whole needs to be addressed. They have cap / hardline against it in Australia so why not here? In Belgium they are trying to ban the burka from being worn in public. In France they have done something against the burka and with alot of Algerian/French people staying in france that is obviously a bad move as Algerian's are widely supportive of Islam. Anyway I will stop slavering sh!t now and let you see this video. We dont want this to go any further than it has. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2VkIu8TL_I& |
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Patriotism is not racism. For Queen and Country British Muslim? No such thing. Scottish Defence League Kilmarnock was a success onwards and upwards. RIP James Waddel | |
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| mankytoes | Apr 4 2010, 04:08 AM Post #5 |
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Ok mate, i've now looked through the thread you are refering to and i'm concerned. I'm white British by the way, probably a bit of Jew in me but I know that's not a problem. But if I was a muslim, I think i'd be a little worried at all these comments from just one page of that one thread- Saunders- "Look out Muzzies, we are coming to claim back Brick Lane!" To that, whiteguy wrote- "now that is a plan mate!" avfc1982 wrote- "What do you mean you turned the tables on them? I know violence isn't the answer, but these c**ts need to realise they dont run our streets and we will f**king turn on them if they force us. 'Burkha women' were calling gangs? The same 'burka women' who are supposed to be peaceful? f**k that religion, f**k it. Kick Islam out of this country." adrian2010 wrote- "Lol some of these stories are like fairytales, let me tell you a true story though of what happened last week when my muzzie neighbour raped my cat........" Not sure if that's joking, but it still seems quite nasty. Fair play, you were arguing against these kind of guys, but in that thread you, who I would say was representing the right, seemed at times outnumbered by what i'd call the far right, genuine bigots. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 04:10 AM Post #6 |
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Members can note for any polticol party they choose to.The edl do not tell people what they can think or who they can vote for.Many here do not like the labour party are we to tell members not too vote labour?Now if we were facists they maybe would tell people who they could vote for and what to think but contrary to things said in the media we are not facists and members are free to vote for and think what they please.Just for the record facists and racists are not welcome in the edl.Also many BNP voters i know do so because of they recognise the threat of radical islam and their anti EU policies.Just because someone votes bnp does not mean they are racist.I vote bnp and im certanly not a racist,a realist yes,racist no! |
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| tynie1874 | Apr 4 2010, 04:13 AM Post #7 |
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Kafir
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See to be quite honest with you aswell. I dont think they should be allowed to spread their hatred like they are doing so at such a rapid rate. The quicker more and more people take a stance against islam the better. Islam isn't a race so how are we racist? Brick lane was actually full of muslims as you could see from the video provided. We accept muslims in the EDL. We have sikh's, Jews, Dutch, You name it. There are lots of different branches of Defence Leagues. There are to name a few. Canadian Scandinavian Dutch probably know about the home nations Welsh Scottish Ulster. It's not just in Britain it's a problem. |
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Patriotism is not racism. For Queen and Country British Muslim? No such thing. Scottish Defence League Kilmarnock was a success onwards and upwards. RIP James Waddel | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 04:13 AM Post #8 |
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Seems to me manktoes is just here to try to find something thats not here.Dont take the bait lads,dont rise to it.Like many before him mankytoes will expose himslef in good time.My reddar is buzzing. |
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| mankytoes | Apr 4 2010, 04:32 AM Post #9 |
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Can you be specific with what a "stance against Islam" is? This concerns me, for this reason. I'm a politics student, but the other subject that interests me is history, i'm so cool that I actually read history books, y'know, for fun. In any case, oppressing a religion doesn't tend to neuter it, it tends to make it stronger and more extreme, for example if you look up the Kulterkampf, Catholics were persecuted, not particularly harshly, but it caused much more Catholic separatism, and that's what I think would happen if you took a "stance against Islam". Islam isn't a race, true, but the term "racism" is often substituted for "religious persecution", and i'm afraid i've slipped into that habit too. I know there's problems with Islam, i'm not living under a rock. I mean what western people like the burka? I know I don't, I think it creates an unfriendly image. But I think banning it would be a horrific step on civil liberties- you guys don't seem too big on small government ideas, so you might not be with me there. You accept muslims, but come on, lets be real here, they aren't really welcome by a lot of members, you just have to look at those threads I put in, even what you just wrote- about taking "a stance against islam"- the "radical" and "extremist" part seems to get dropped pretty quickly. DFW, i'm not a communist, I don't really have any problem with genuine anarchistic Marxism, other than it's impossiblity of course, but state communism is certainly a bad thing, it's just another form of authoritarian government, and as I say, i'm a liberal, i'm on the opposite side. I mean socialism isn't possible without the state overbearing on our lives, and I put freedom first- that means freedom for you guys, to protest peacefully and whatever, but also freedom for muslims to worship and live their lives without persecution. Communism has never seriously appealed to me. On the spectrum, my economics are pretty boring and centrist, but i'm a social libertarian. One other thing I find a bit concerning is your focus on conspiracy theories- the police are against you, the politicians are against you, communists plots, even i'm already being touted as some sort of communist cyber spy. This is a big feature of more extremist organisations. |
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| wookie533 | Apr 4 2010, 04:37 AM Post #10 |
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Infidel
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Why bother commenting on someone mentioning the BNP that would be their assumption on how they feel this does not reflect on the EDL as a whole. We all have our own voice I won't vote BNP simply because I don't believe that they could run the country? Some of what they say is true but most is said just to get votes and I feel that people are scared and the BNP use this to gain votes. Not mine could you live under a party that has no clue about running the country other than getting rid of immigrants who play a vital part in our society. If you want my opinion vote for who you believe in but as my dad always said it doesn't matter who you vote for the government always gets in. So when you do vote look at who you are voting for and what they stand for and if you can see through the lies then vote for them just be carefull politions cant' be trusted we are more currupted than most openly curropted than most countrys who don't deny it, If you don't want to join the EDL then don't but I'm glad your looking into what we are about before making a desition it shows me you are inteligent,open and not easily misslead so thank you. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 06:49 AM Post #11 |
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Manky: If you've been here since Sept '09, then you'd have seen the ongoing ding-dong battles between those who support BNP and those who f**king hate them. You're voicing an opinion on a few threads on a protest day, most of which are very pointed, specific and passionate. You will see people slagging of muzzies too, others who are more concerned about Islamic extremism concentrate on exactly that. EDL is an absolute mish-mash of people and opinions, many of which come to the fore, but just because a certain thread don't exhibit a contrary opinion doesn't mean that one doesn't exist (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as my old PhD advisor always said). Despite (maybe because of!?) the mish-mash, EDL has gelled extremely well and I would stand and focus my efforts with whose who share them, even if the remainder of their beliefs are not my own. Now, where the f**k have you been since 09/09?
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 07:17 AM Post #12 |
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What is your agenda? Your questions stem from what you have read on the forum so draw your own conclusions the same as any other genuine person would. Why do you expect us to be interested in your politics or views particularly? |
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| Karif-Chris | Apr 4 2010, 07:27 AM Post #13 |
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Is there a differnece between extream islam and moderate islam, does the quran read different to differnet muslims? you need to find the answer to that question 1st mate, try reading the quran and hadiths, pair that up with you liking of history and see for yourself how moderate muslims have only excisted when they cannot forcefully take a country. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 09:19 AM Post #14 |
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I won't bother quoting MankyToes. I've been a left/liberal voter for 30 years. I'm in the EDL because I don't want to see a BNP government. Anjem Choudary and his ilk want a civil war in the UK. And the way things are going (with or without EDL) they are going to get that civil war. The question of what constitutes islamic extremism is moot. In Feb 2009 the government leaked it's Contest 2 strategy. Part of this was to class islamic homophobia as a sign of islamic extremism. Many muslim organizations complained along the lines "that would make all muslims extremists". As a gay man who regularly hears muslims calling for my execution, and never hears muslims shouting down these "extremists", you tell me: what constitutes an islamic extremist? In a survey last year out of 1000 muslims not 1 was tolerant of homosexuality. I personally know lesbians and gay men in EDL. Not one of them wants a BNP government. I know jews in the EDL. Not one of them wants a BNP government. If you don't think a BNP government is coming you'd better look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party . That article shows a party that has gone from 500 votes to 193,000 in less than 20 years. But it is much more shocking than that - the BNP got something like 940,000 votes in last year's european elections. If that trajectory continues, then they are likely to get over 2-4 million votes in the general election. The fact that wikipedia article has not been updated (I'm sure the BNP have tried) shows that the establishment is in denial over what his happening. I believe the EHRC action against the BNP was to sanitize them slightly before they get their inevitable MPs in the general election. The establishment must have known that the EHRC action was only going to make the BNP more electable. If something is not done to reverse the spread of islam in this country, then I think it is inevitable that we will have a BNP government in 5 to 10 years. And as much as I don't want that, it might be the only thing that will stop the civil war that the muslim extremists want. Rather than standing on the sidelines, you'd better start learning about islam and decide for yourself where this distinction between extreme and moderate islam lies (hint: muslim leaders in countries like Turkey say things like "this moderate islam is a fiction of the west"). And if you don't want to see a BNP government, you'd better get yourself and your friends behind EDL to put pressure on the mainstream parties to do something. Believe me, they know what the problem is. They just don't know what to do about it. The establishment has signally failed to turn muslims away from extremism - the younger generation are 2 to 3 times more extreme than their parents' generation. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 09:40 AM Post #15 |
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live some life first then tell us what to think. if some 19 year old polotics student comes telling me im a 'right wing twat a long' they might just be proved right on waking up. get a proper job, a mrs ,some kids ,a cat and a dog,a house in an area that then gets overtaken by hostile guests, live in the real world a bit. then come back in a few years of real life and tell me what i am then. |
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| Alexander the Great | Apr 4 2010, 10:10 AM Post #16 |
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Manky, Anyone here can vote for who the f**k they want because thats their right. Anyone here can voice their concerns and opinions if done in the right way. Muslims might not be welcomed by a lot of people here but that doesnt make them racist. Thats just because we dont see much moderates making a stand against the extremists. Its no different than UAF not being welcomed here because they have completey different views on the subject. You are so focused on BNP and this is not the BNP and nothing to do with it. You might think your smart mate but to be honest there is nothing clever about someone that cant look outside the box (politics). This isnt a political organisation. This is people fed up with Islamic extremism and if a minority group/culture from far away lands changing the way we eat, dress, drink, talk, s**t, etc is not extreme then Im a monkeys uncle. No Surrender! |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 10:17 AM Post #17 |
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Mankytoes, you can't judge the EDL on a few personal opinions of some members. Take me for example, I hate the BNP and openly say it on this forum, I agree with freedom and democracy for all but this doesn't mean apeasment and letting terrorists preach hate on our streets. I'm very left wing, more so than some UAF types lol but the islamification of our nation (and europe) is a big and very real threat and you don't have to look far to see that. People are abit pissed off and dissepointed after Dudley so the let the mood settle first. |
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| Night_Crawler | Apr 4 2010, 10:49 AM Post #18 |
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KFC only sell Halal meat in about 86 stores, what about if i don't support Halal meat, surely i should have the right to choose. "Can i have a Bacon bap please" "No" "Why" "Because it's not Halal" That's discrimination against non Muslims in my book. I'm also a UKIP voter, if anyone wants to support the BNP that is there democratic right to do so, we can't tell you who to vote for, nor can we tell anyone else who to vote for. |
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| mankytoes | Apr 4 2010, 07:24 PM Post #19 |
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Ok, thanks for all the replies. To that, I say absolutely, and we should know that more than anyone, because our whole society is based on a very moderate version of a religion just like Islam, Christianity. No ones disputing there's some nasty stuff in the Koran, but there's loads in the bible aswell, you just will never hear them. The bible says we can sell our daughters into slavery, that we can take slaves from neighbouring countries, that we should kill people for being gay, or planting two of the same crops in the same field (seriously). Religion is religion, and all these attempts to treat Islam as something totally different are rubbish in my opinion. And you bring up history, good to know i'm not the only one interested, and i'd say you should look at the world a millenium ago, when the Arab muslim countries were streaks ahead of the Christian west in terms of culture, invention, etc. Islam isn't necessarily degenerative, no more than religion is, anyway. The way you all talk about muslims sounds like you are both treating them as a collective entity, and as some sinister secret society. I mean i've got a muslim mate, I don't know why it has to be such an issue between people. Is it naive of me to suggest we should focus on similarities, not differences? Homo Sapian (love the name by the way), I think judging muslims by Anjem Choudary is so unfair, like them judging white people by Nick Griffin. He's a nutter. And when you read his stuff, isn't it so clear that he's trying to wind you up, like the thing about the queen wearing a burka, and turning Buckingham Palace into a mosque? It seemed almost childish to me. Surely you can't say the government aren't doing things about this when they banned Islam4UK? I can't believe you really think we are near civil war. And come on, who made that survey? In a similar sense, you shouldn't be so scared of the BNP. It's a concern, but they've reached their ceiling for now, their vote share barely increased in the Euro Elections over the last time, it was just that the voting system meant they sneaked in two MEP's, Nick Griffin actually got less votes. To be honest it seems like you've been taken in a bit by scarmongering tactics. There won't be a civil war or a BNP government in ten years. I mean in areas where Islamic extremism is a huge problem, there are terrorist attacks as almost a part of daily life, compared to the one set that we've had. Our intelligence services have done a good job, but if the muslim community was that radical, with modern technology, we would have had so many more. And the attacks aren't just random, it's a response to a western/arab conflict that has been going on a few decades, and we, but more America, can't claim we don't have a big responsibility for this. Your post started off well, but the end "the younger generation are 2 to 3 times more extreme than their parents' generation." is a bit silly, like "extreme" can be measured by any numbers. In any case, i'd like to know who you are voting for next election? clee, whatever, it's your right whether to respect my opinions or not. Night_Crawler, whatever your feelings on halal, it's not an extremist issue. In any case it's KFC's right as an independant buisness to choose what to sell. If you don't want to shop there, don't. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 07:26 PM Post #20 |
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mankytoes, I suggest your ask your Muslim friend about the Quran. Ask him if he believes what is written in there, if he does, then that means he believes he should behead you. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 07:38 PM Post #21 |
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They're allowed to worship freely, but in their places of worship, they persecute alot of people. It's not like they're doing anything to prevent radicalism spreading through their mosques, and IFE is radial. When Muslim youth begin attacking people on our very own streets for being something that's considered unislamic, then why shouldn't we persecute? Why shouldn't we criticise every Muslim? Why should we? Because they're failing to prevent it, failing to condemn it and more chilling, is that the preaching of hate is happening in their place of worship. If the so called 'moderates' who value British values are hearing this, they'd report it, surely? If they're not, why? Fear? They shouldn't feel threatened by their own people for speaking out against radicalism, or do they actually agree with the Imams? We don't know. Why can't we criticise the religion? It's not like it's a very friendly book. It's very very hostile towards non-believers, and it promotes hate. When Muslims are blowing themselves up, blowing us up, and even their own fellow Muslims up, there's a problem. The problem should be addressed, why aren't the community leaders doing anything about it? If they were, we wouldn't be protesting. We're an extremist organisation? We're not armed, we're not telling people they cannot join because of who they are, we're trying to make a change happen. If we're being called extremists because a few people out of thousands are talking about conspiracies, then you have a bit of a problem. You're tarring everyone with the same brush, which is VERY UAF like, they tar us all with the same brush because of a small group who are just talking about a few conspiracies. If you apply 'extremist organisation' to the UAF, they're alot more extreme than us. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 07:42 PM Post #22 |
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We're not seeing these passages in the bible being used in the real world on a daily basis just like Islam. We're not protesting against religion. WE'RE PROTESTING AGAINST MILITANCY, you're not seeing Christians gearing themselves up for war in this country, you're not seeing them blowing themselves up for the sake of a few virgins and to go to paradise. We're not hearing about be-headings of non-Christians committed by Christians. Once we begin seeing these trends in Christianity, then we will protest. |
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| Jethro | Apr 4 2010, 07:55 PM Post #23 |
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This^^^^ |
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| Capt Haddock | Apr 4 2010, 07:57 PM Post #24 |
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Hi manky interesting points you raise, however, I feel you are no position to predict anything that will happen in the future (unless you have some form of crystal ball)
Edited by Capt Haddock, Apr 4 2010, 11:53 PM.
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| Blistering Barnacles! | |
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| adrian2010 | Apr 4 2010, 07:58 PM Post #25 |
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I got a feeling mankytoes is a muslim insider. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 08:03 PM Post #26 |
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There's reds under the bed too, adrian. |
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| CINCINNATUS | Apr 4 2010, 08:06 PM Post #27 |
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"whatever your feelings on halal, it's not an extremist issue. In any case it's KFC's right as an independant buisness to choose what to sell. If you don't want to shop there, don't". right the halal thing is just one thing that is deployed within the islamic system it creates jobs which only halal authorised people can do ie you need to be a muslim, as soon as this system is started where do you think it will stop its just like when the christains went on there crusades in the middle ages, first we have mosques, then banks which only muslims can use and dont pay intrest, unlike are usury banks( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury ) now halal which is spreading like wildfire round my way, this will only serve to under cut english jobs/butchers in the long run. example as best i can desribe it: like a computer running on windows only programs compatable with it will work, now look at bill gates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_gates christianity = windows 98, its still good but not many english using it anymore. |
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quote by me "an illusion only works, when one is ignorant to its operation" Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad. ENGLAND FOREVER ISLAMIC STATE NEVER. | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 08:16 PM Post #28 |
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Mankytoes, are you our new form teacher?
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 08:17 PM Post #29 |
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I smell something weird. Must be UAF... |
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| Lisalashesxxx | Apr 4 2010, 08:21 PM Post #30 |
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Lisalashesxxx
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hmmmmmm..... |
| It's Lisa. Not Leeeeeza | |
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| Ian JL | Apr 4 2010, 08:22 PM Post #31 |
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Edited due to wrong quote re done below
Edited by Ian JL, Apr 4 2010, 08:26 PM.
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If so where is it going to? I think colours play a part in English but cultures should be allowed to stay unchallenged and without prejudice in anybodies native country. | |
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| Ian JL | Apr 4 2010, 08:26 PM Post #32 |
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I am going to have to ask you mankytoes which bible did you read to find your quoted statements in? Did you know that there are quite alot of interpretations of the bible and in all of them it also states that there is only one true religion? The words also go on to say that the true religion is based on its actions according to the deeds from words written! the road to true religion is very narrow and is easy to fall off it. There is still plenty to learn about your quote stated based on the fact that you stated an understanding from one bible interpretation that you read! This one is just some knowledge for your thought and I recommend you doing some research on this matter and not just to take my word for it. Edited by Ian JL, Apr 4 2010, 08:32 PM.
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If so where is it going to? I think colours play a part in English but cultures should be allowed to stay unchallenged and without prejudice in anybodies native country. | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 08:39 PM Post #33 |
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Personally MankyToes I think your too hung up on the BNP. The EDL isn't officially linked to the BNP but some us do share similar view points as them. According to most Liberals, if I vote BNP then i'm a racist and a fascist. This seems narrow minded to me because there are loads more issues at stake e.g. Immigration, Crime, Multiculturalism. I don't hate blacks and I don't hate Asians yet I do care about the other 3 issues I noted, why is that racist or fascist? |
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| tynie1874 | Apr 4 2010, 08:40 PM Post #34 |
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Kafir
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Hence the Topic - Outsider. |
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Patriotism is not racism. For Queen and Country British Muslim? No such thing. Scottish Defence League Kilmarnock was a success onwards and upwards. RIP James Waddel | |
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| Disenfranchised Briton | Apr 4 2010, 08:59 PM Post #35 |
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Kafir
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Mankytoes - Christians are followers of Christ, a man who came to correct the wrongs proposed in the Bible. Where did Jesus Christ ever condone any sort of violence against anybody? Mohammed tried to reverse the good work and get everyone back to the mysogynistic and brutal edicts of the Torah. As far as I am concerned Christianity has NOTHING to do with the Old Testement, after all that is why we have a NEW testement. Of course the power mongers of the Church needed the OT teachings to scare people into following their rule but a christian follows the teachings of Christ not the OT written long before Christ was alive. If Islam did not have a "religious" mantle then would anyone accept the ideology? How many would support the way Islam considers women to be chattel? How many would support stonings and amputations? How many would support hatred of the Jews? How many would support the death penalty for homosexuality? How many would support the death penalty for chosing to stop following that ideology? If Islam did not hide behind the protection of religious status then it would be exposed for the hateful evil that it really is. We don't tolerate Nazism nor do we feel a need to explain what we hate about it, Islam is no different to Nazism. It demands complete obedience, it hates democracy, it silences all opposition, it seeks to conquer all. It's like the Borg from startrek in its desire to assimilate everyone. The main difference is that the Borg are not technically evil and Islam promotes cruelty and punishment. Why would YOU tolerate the spread of Islam? What aspects of core and fundamental Islamic belief are acceptable to you? How many practicing muslims don't want to see the UK become an Islamic republic do you think? Why should anyone here welcome that agenda, why should any of us sit back and let it happen. Islam is an ideology and as such it should be examined and criticised in exactly the same way as communism, liberalism, anarchism or keynesian economics. Yet only Islam wants to kill you for daring to criticise it. I am totally opposed to Islamic ideology, I am similarly opposed to communism and nazism and my reasons are based upon the IDEOLOGIES not the racial makeup of the followers. Why would you want to see an increase in islamic culture and ideology in the UK? |
| Gin & Tonic Division | |
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| Karif-Chris | Apr 4 2010, 09:15 PM Post #36 |
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Ask him to define a peodophille |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 09:44 PM Post #37 |
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mankytoes: I thought you would have come up with something better than this - seeing as you have been on here since 6th September last year. Now, you have a grand total of 5 posts - so you should have had plenty of time to trawl the forum. If you want to come on a demo to see what the EDL is like - feel free. Until then, have a better look at the forum and study it before you start posting random stuff. This forum is open to everyone, just like its our choice to shop at KFC if we want - the choice is yours - if you don`t like it here, do one. Simple really. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 09:51 PM Post #38 |
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i think your right theyre funny
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 09:52 PM Post #39 |
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Pompus student |
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| Deleted User | Apr 4 2010, 09:56 PM Post #40 |
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some polotics student posted on nufc fanzine site the other day, i think we should sing chants bout the miners strike at the forest fans, 'i wasnt there but ive got a polotics degree'. fuks sake
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| adrian2010 | Apr 4 2010, 11:46 PM Post #41 |
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Newbie
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definately a lefty! |
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| Deleted User | Apr 5 2010, 12:01 AM Post #42 |
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Couldn't agree more. As someone who spent the best part of his life studying and teaching in universities, mankytoes is a pompous ass. One of the gay group has just spent the entire day being subjected to death threats and homophobic abuse by muslims. And not the Anjem Choudary's of this world, oh no. This was by the Unite Against Fascism muslim supporters. So don't tell me that Anjem Choudary is an exception. In a study by Newcastle University 80 out of 100 mosques were selling literature calling for the execution of homos. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-5904.html Mankytoes, when you pull your head out of your ass, come back and maybe we'll have more time for you. It's amazing how people like you will dismiss all the evidence we present, when you have f**k all evidence of your own (just your wishful thinking). MI5 have 2000 muslims under 24/7 surveillance in the UK. Assuming there are only 2 million muslims in the UK, that means 1 in 1000 muslims is thought to be at serious risk of terrorism. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 5 2010, 12:03 AM Post #43 |
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Homo Sapien, very well said mate. You have just proved our point, I doubt manky will be replying. |
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| mankytoes | Apr 5 2010, 04:29 PM Post #44 |
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This is quite possibly why you guys have such problems with muslims. If you are this rude to people, this disrespectful, they're going to get angry, say horrible things back. I wouldn't say that in the same way I wouldn't ask my Catholic mate if his priest had raped him. What happened to British good manners, aye? And i'll reply as long as you guys are willing to talk to me. TheEnglishmanDylan, I don't think that's fair on muslims at all. I mean watching the news, where Islam is represented by a guys with hooks for hands, fair enough, you might get that impression, but that's like Fred Phelps being spokesman for Christianity. Why not look at what the Muslim Council of Britain- http://www.mcb.org.uk/features/features.php?ann_id=1934 for example, try to do? Of course you can, and should, critisise the Koran, but do it in context. Understand many of the aggressive verses were written when muslims were in a very bloody conflict, understand that, like the Bible, it also has some very peaceful parts, understand that all other major religious texts have similarly morally wrong parts to them. I know you aren't all conspiracy mad, but I haven't been here long and i've already been called a commie, a muzzie and UAF member, it reminds me of the American "red scares". lisalashes, no doubt you are a good looking girl, what am I saying that is making you "hmmmmmmm"? IanJL, I have done research on this, and I believe the Bible can be interpreted in just the same way as the Koran. I mean on a simple level, it says you can't worship any other God as a deadly sin, so that alone seems to imply we shouldn't be tolerant of other religion. Lets not kid ourselves, widespread moderate Christianity, which we see today, has been rare historically. The reason it exists today is because we have very good education systems and a very non-religious population- I think about 5% of Brits go to Church on any given Sunday, only one in ten Christians- I think even for muslims only three in ten, so the idea that they are all fundamentalist is quite off. Mantra, I wouldn't say you are a racist or fascist for voting BNP. Most BNP voters are probably racist or have at least some form of major prejudice, but i'm sure most don't know some nasty things about the party and its members they try and keep secret- when it was founded, just twenty years ago, the leader said "Mein Kampf is my bible". Nick Griffin spent much of his adult life denying the Holocaust, and he openly admitted, whilst stood next to David Duke, Grand Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan, that his tactic was to pretend to be more moderate, to get power, and then try to convert the public to extremism, so they'll say "every last one must go". You can watch that on YouTube if you don't believe me. And yeah, i'm concerned these people are getting so many votes. D B, this quote- "As far as I am concerned Christianity has NOTHING to do with the Old Testement, after all that is why we have a NEW testement" is incredibly controversial, I mean why is the Old Testament half the Bible? And you will find most Christians think stories like Gods creation of the earth and Adam and Eve are quite important. More importantly, it is specifically stated in the New Testament that nothing in the Old should be ignored just because the New Testament is being written. As for your last comment, I never said I wanted Islam to spread in the Uk. But I think you are being so separatist, so "us and them", and that's never healthy, again looking back at history. Sure, there's problems with muslim communities integrating, but you are hardly helping that, with that attitude. But why would you want more Islamic culture? Well people, espeically on the right of the spectrum, indentify disobediant young people, heavy drinking and teenagers shagging around as three of our biggest cultural problems- muslims, I think we'd all agree, are much better on average than non-muslim Brits in these areas. Homo Sapian, I thought I was being polite, so thank for the insults. You can call me pompous, but i've come on here to actually try and learn about your organisation, instead of just accepting the, mainly negative, things I read about you. In any case, you do know the bible also says all gays should be stoned to death, right? Is that not homophobic literature? Of course there are problems with Islam in this country, i'll never deny that. It's counterable without going so overboard, though. Of these 2000, we clearly don't have concrete evidence of conspiracy, or we'd lock them up. So these are suspects, not proven guilty. It's pretty obvious if we had thousands of muslim terrorists in this country we would have much more muslim terrorism. The trouble is, i'm not sure you are really in a position to counter this, because we need to work with muslim leaders, not against them, if we want to really end these problems, these threats, and with the language you guys use, I don't see that happening. I'd just end with asking you all to make sure you have a balanced view of the Koran. Of course it says some horrible things, we all know that. But I bet you are suprised to know this is also a verse- "Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)" |
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| Lisalashesxxx | Apr 5 2010, 04:30 PM Post #45 |
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Lisalashesxxx
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I was meditating
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| It's Lisa. Not Leeeeeza | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 5 2010, 04:46 PM Post #46 |
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mankytoes: `But why would you want more Islamic culture? Well people, espeically on the right of the spectrum, indentify disobediant young people, heavy drinking and teenagers shagging around as three of our biggest cultural problems- muslims, I think we'd all agree, are much better on average than non-muslim Brits in these areas.` First of all, I will just let you know I am NOT anti-Muslim - I am just replying. You may have a point in the quote above - but, have you ever been to Birmingham? If not, take a night out and go to Broad Street. There are plenty in pubs and clubs drinking and there are even more cruising up and down abusing women coming out of pubs/clubs. And for that reason, the local buses are not going up that road due to the congestion. So the average person has to get a taxi, or have a mile long walk just to get a bus. Then, the same `good lads` cruising in these cars are picking lone females and lone lads off later on in the night - that is fact, I have seen it. There are good and bad in all faiths, races - whatever you want to call it. Have a trawl through youtube and facebook and see how these people view us. |
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| Night_Crawler | Apr 5 2010, 05:00 PM Post #47 |
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Mankytoes, i do not tolerate people who say UK should adopt sharia law, and call for the queen to convert to Islam. I was at colledge and i was looking to make new friends, and the Muslims i tried to get on with ended up turning on me. Got the right to smoke canabis on premesis, if you didn't let them they'll say it discrimination against there religion. Got to play there own Music out loud, if you told them to turn it down or off they'd call you racist. They whent around trying to get banned from every store in town. They were pretty racist against the English people. I do believe that there are moderates out there that want to be friends with many English people, but i'm still yet to meet one. It's just the people who are intolarent to our culture and us, that's what i have a problem with. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 5 2010, 05:10 PM Post #48 |
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Nice finish manky with Sura 109, which of course comes very quickly after Sura 98.6 "Indeed they who disbelieved among people of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein, those are the worst of creatures". So with regard to balance there is indeed much to balance. However I think we are all missing a point here, WE JUST DON'T WANT IT !!! It is alien to us and we just don't want it, and I for one am tired of having people expecting me to justify why I do not want a vicious and alien creed forced upon me and my surroundings. |
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| Disenfranchised Briton | Apr 5 2010, 05:18 PM Post #49 |
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Kafir
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Mankytoes take a look at how Christians are treated in Pakistan, then ask yourself what seperates the attitudes of pakistani muslims in the uk from pakistani muslims in pakistan.... nothing. Why is the OT such a big part of the bible? Because the church needed the threat of punishment to control the people which it has done for centuries. Ask any muslim if they consider the koran as writings of the time or as a "perfect system for all men to live by". Not one muslim will say that the koran is anything other than 100% perfect. As long as they believe that such outdated nonsense is still valid and good in todays world then they are clearly deluded. |
| Gin & Tonic Division | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 5 2010, 05:20 PM Post #50 |
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interesting points, tho its not like we know they dont use the race card. a moderate (in fact unpracticing) muslim at the mrs's work got nicked for stealing, turns out she'd had thousands over the years,a major investigation proved she'd been doctoring reciepts for as far back as they could trace. DEFENCE- your persecuting me because im a muslim. nothing to do with been a thieving retarded fukkwit whos been caught red handed? course management s**te themselves soon as 'the defence' line comes out. luckily they had the bollox to see it through. interesting that she tried to drop all her 'friends' who knew fuk all about it in the s**t saying theyd set her up because.....(put token response here). anyway back to business, in working mans talk, i think your a bit of a c**t personally mankytoes who knows f**k all about anything except what your polotics lecturer has taught you! is he a marxist by any chance? |
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3:31 PM Jul 11