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Biblical Messages on Military Gun Sights!
Topic Started: Jan 22 2010, 12:47 PM (246 Views)
jayfer72
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Kafir
Coded references to biblical passages are inscribed on gunsights widely used by the US and British military in Iraq and Afghanistan, it has emerged.

The markings include "2COR4:6" and "JN8:12", relating to verses in the books of Corinthians II and John.

Trijicon, the US-based manufacturer, was founded by a devout Christian, and says it runs to "Biblical standards".

But military officials in the US and UK have expressed concern over the way the markings will be perceived.

The company has added the references to its sights for many years, but the issue surfaced only recently when soldiers complained to an advocacy group.

Raised lettering

Versions of Trijicon's Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight (Acog) are used by the US Special Operations Forces, the US Marine Corps and the US Army.

Many soldiers know of them and are very confused as to why they are there and what it is supposed to mean
US soldier, quoted by Military Religious Freedom Foundation

Britain's Ministry of Defence has just ordered 480 Acog sights for use on its new Sharpshooter rifles - to be used by troops in Afghanistan. Other versions of the Acog sight are "widely in service", the ministry says.

The inscriptions are subtle and appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number.

John 8:12 reads: "When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, 'I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

The nod to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians, found on the company's Reflex sight, references the text: "For God, who said, 'Let light shine out of darkness,' made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ."

An MoD spokesman told the BBC the ministry appreciated the biblical references could cause offence and was talking to its supplier, but was "not aware at the time of purchase that these markings had any broader significance".

'Propaganda tool'

The US Defense Department is a major customer of Trijicon's, signing deals for $66m (£40.3m) of the company's products in 2009 alone.

The US Marine Corps told the BBC they were "concerned with how this may be perceived" and were meeting with the company to "discuss future sight procurements".


We believe that America is great when its people are good. This goodness has been based on biblical standards throughout our history and we will strive to follow those morals
Trijicon

The US Army said it was looking into any potential policy violation.

The issue has been thrust into the spotlight by the US Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) - an advocacy group that seeks to preserve the separation of church and state in the military.

On 14 January, the MRFF received an e-mail, purportedly from a Muslim US Army infantryman, complaining about the markings.

"Many soldiers know of them and are very confused as to why they are there and what it is supposed to mean."

The email adds: "Everyone is worried that if they were captured in combat that the enemy would use the Bible quotes against them in captivity or some other form of propaganda."

MRFF president Mikey Weinstein says the inscriptions could give the Taliban and other enemy forces a propaganda tool.

"I don't have to wonder for a nanosecond how the American public would react if citations from the Koran were being inscribed onto these US armed forces gunsights instead of New Testament citations," he said.

A Trijicon spokesman told the BBC the company "has been working to provide America's military men and women with high quality, innovative sighting systems for the weapons they use".

"Our effort is simple and straightforward: to help our servicemen and women win the war on terror and come home safe to their families.

"As part of our faith and our belief in service to our country, Trijicon has put scripture references on our products for more than two decades.

"As long as we have men and women in danger, we will continue to do everything we can to provide them with both state-of-the-art technology and the never-ending support and prayers of a grateful nation," the spokesman added.

The company states on its website: "We believe that America is great when its people are good. This goodness has been based on biblical standards throughout our history and we will strive to follow those morals."



Blimey!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Deleted User
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So?

I couldn't careless about what is on my ACOG sight when I'm busting a taliban.
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jayfer72
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the point is, MOD are totally unaware....kind of cheeky in a way...but i love it! and totally agree with your comment...
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EDL
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Mr Bin Liner did say it was a holy war!
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Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England"
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you got terry in the scope, and you know gods with ya. brilliant. the metaphor being the eye of god sees and takes out!
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jayfer72
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Think the sights are made in the deep South of America! and we all know how God fearing they are!
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Old War Dog
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Wait 'til they find out the bullets have been sealed using a special glue, formulated from pigs blood :)
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attahed is pat of the gun in question, a bit more than just a bilical text lo
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charlie
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I think its outrages myself
A WAY OUT FOR YOU NAZI SCUM THATS INFILTRATED THE EDL
http://www.stormfront.org/
http://www.uaf.org.uk/
http://www.islam4uk.com/
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Old War Dog
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charlie
Jan 22 2010, 01:38 PM
I think its outrages myself
What outrages you about it Charlie?
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charlie
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Using biblical reference in war and it giving creed to the notion its a Christian v Islam war
A WAY OUT FOR YOU NAZI SCUM THATS INFILTRATED THE EDL
http://www.stormfront.org/
http://www.uaf.org.uk/
http://www.islam4uk.com/
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Christian gun sights... classic! :D

But don't forget the "Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ioXrZT9Ric
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rudyard
Jan 22 2010, 02:06 PM
Christian gun sights... classic! :D

But don't forget the "Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ioXrZT9Ric
classic film WE ARE THE KNIGHTS WHO SAYYYYYY NEE
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Old War Dog
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charlie
Jan 22 2010, 01:53 PM
Using biblical reference in war and it giving creed to the notion its a Christian v Islam war
I thought as much, coming from you. You've always got something strange to say Charlie. The USA is a christian country and the company that manufactures the sights is in a deep south Christian state. They are God fearing people and they feel adding biblical verse references to their sights in some way alleviates the fact that their weapons are taking peoples lives. They feel biblical inscriptions might somehow soften that blow and through God help in some way.

Then, some Muslim fcuk finds it offensive to his religion and so the USA army and the company in question have to bend over backwards to every Muslim qualm? A Christian country bending over backwards for Muslim's who have declared war on them! It beggars belief then, Charlie, that you're enraged at the fact the inscriptions are on the sights, but not at the fact some Muslim fcuk is upset about it! Typical PC 'do-good Charlie'. You really fukcing piss me off sometimes.

I shouldn't be disclosing this as it's one of my patent pending inventions. I shouldn't really be revealing my invention in case anyone copies it, but I've photographed the prototype. I have an international patent pending on this. What you think of it:

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charlie
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I dont get the point your trying to make so its a suppose Christian company that make the weapons but some how think its wrong to make weapons for war so put scriptures on to make it ok.

The same could be said about slaves
The k.k.k

and the Muslim extremist .
I know you think you have the crusader spirit but your never seen using it only behind a key board you warrior you
Edited by charlie, Jan 22 2010, 02:55 PM.
A WAY OUT FOR YOU NAZI SCUM THATS INFILTRATED THE EDL
http://www.stormfront.org/
http://www.uaf.org.uk/
http://www.islam4uk.com/
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Old War Dog
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charlie
Jan 22 2010, 02:54 PM
I dont get the point your trying to make so its a suppose Christian company that make the weapons but some how think its wrong to make weapons for war so put scriptures on to make it ok.

The same could be said about slaves
The k.k.k

and the Muslim extremist .
I now you think you have the crusader spirit but your never seen using it only behind a key board you warrior you
Now that's not so Charlie 'boy' so get your facts right before you start trying to slate me again. I've done more than my fair share of work for the defence leagues and granted, a lot of my expertise is at a keyboard, but I've done some footwork too. No one can call me a keyboard warrior, except you of course. 'Do-good' Charlie.

I don't want to get personal on a public forum, but we'll meet one of these days (Edinburgh maybe) and we can sort out our differences then ok? I wont start name calling, but if I'm totally honest, I don't like you Charlie 'boy'. NOW WHAT THE FCUK HAVE SLAVES AND THE KKK GOT TO DO WITH IT?
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if someone was shooting at me i wouldnt think omg it says allah on his gun that is so out of order however there should be some sort of alternative for soldiers of different religions such as no inscription although at the end of the day a gun is a gun it only has 1 purpose and these people should just get on with there jobs
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charlie
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SLAVES AND THE KKK GOT TO DO WITH IT?

they used scripture to back up what they was doing

Has for the record I wont say I dislike you because we have different opinions I find you a clever and funny man with what you post .

I will take back about what I said I dont know what you done for the E.D.L and I should not judge
SORRY
A WAY OUT FOR YOU NAZI SCUM THATS INFILTRATED THE EDL
http://www.stormfront.org/
http://www.uaf.org.uk/
http://www.islam4uk.com/
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jayfer72
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well fellas you should see what is chalked onto mortar bombs and some other munitions that are used in afghan!

similiar was carried out in ww2
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Geert Wilders
Jan 22 2010, 02:14 PM
charlie
Jan 22 2010, 01:53 PM
Using biblical reference in war and it giving creed to the notion its a Christian v Islam war
I thought as much, coming from you. You've always got something strange to say Charlie. The USA is a christian country and the company that manufactures the sights is in a deep south Christian state. They are God fearing people and they feel adding biblical verse references to their sights in some way alleviates the fact that their weapons are taking peoples lives. They feel biblical inscriptions might somehow soften that blow and through God help in some way.

Then, some Muslim fcuk finds it offensive to his religion and so the USA army and the company in question have to bend over backwards to every Muslim qualm? A Christian country bending over backwards for Muslim's who have declared war on them! It beggars belief then, Charlie, that you're enraged at the fact the inscriptions are on the sights, but not at the fact some Muslim fcuk is upset about it! Typical PC 'do-good Charlie'. You really fukcing piss me off sometimes.

I shouldn't be disclosing this as it's one of my patent pending inventions. I shouldn't really be revealing my invention in case anyone copies it, but I've photographed the prototype. I have an international patent pending on this. What you think of it:

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Geert the cats out the bag. I have just seen some Muslims test firing your round.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkgfrS9FanU :D
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Old War Dog
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Those Arabs are funny, think I'll need to add some subtitles to that one.

They weren't testing my bullets though, here they are testing out mines. Dipped each one in pigs blood first of course (just as my brother-in-law does over in Afghan right now):

Edited by Old War Dog, Jan 22 2010, 06:55 PM.
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jayfer72
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obviously not using the ACOG sight at the start ofthe vid! bloody poor marksmanship!!!...getsome more korans!
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Muslims test out new I.E.D.on old man.. barbaric f**kers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZGHyw4UQjE
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roxy1010
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charlie
Jan 22 2010, 01:38 PM
I think its outrages myself
Maybe you didn't realise that suicide bombers shout Allahu Akhbar just before they blow up. How outrageous eh? Maybe you should have a word with them and tell them to leave religion out if it.

In the meantime this is what I would want on a rifle I was using...

And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!

Good enough for Jules, good enough for me.
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Andy - sorry 'Englishalways' - are you in here mate?

I suppose if you've got to change the name of your group, you might as well change your own name as well! :D
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Old War Dog
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roxy1010
Jan 22 2010, 09:09 PM
charlie
Jan 22 2010, 01:38 PM
I think its outrages myself
Maybe you didn't realise that suicide bombers shout Allahu Akhbar just before they blow up. How outrageous eh? Maybe you should have a word with them and tell them to leave religion out if it.

In the meantime this is what I would want on a rifle I was using...

And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!

Good enough for Jules, good enough for me.
My favourite film that!
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Did people think Bush was joking when he said its a crusade. The Chrisitan radicals have been crusading the East for many years. They have also displayed many times in Afghanistan, this is nothing new.

We can't call Muslims religous fanatics and ingnore the Christian ones, infact the Christian ones maybe the cause of this 'holy war'.
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Old War Dog
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Englishalways
Jan 22 2010, 09:17 PM
Did people think Bush was joking when he said its a crusade. The Chrisitan radicals have been crusading the East for many years. They have also displayed many times in Afghanistan, this is nothing new.

We can't call Muslims religous fanatics and ingnore the Christian ones, infact the Christian ones maybe the cause of this 'holy war'.
You should read your history before you post such drivel. Learn to think before you speak and go do some research on the Crusades.
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Geert Wilders
Jan 22 2010, 09:25 PM
Englishalways
Jan 22 2010, 09:17 PM
Did people think Bush was joking when he said its a crusade. The Chrisitan radicals have been crusading the East for many years. They have also displayed many times in Afghanistan, this is nothing new.

We can't call Muslims religous fanatics and ingnore the Christian ones, infact the Christian ones maybe the cause of this 'holy war'.
You should read your history before you post such drivel. Learn to think before you speak and go do some research on the Crusades.
Exactly which part is drivel?

Bush mentioning the crusade or the military using christianity as part of the war?
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Old War Dog
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Englishalways
Jan 22 2010, 09:34 PM
Geert Wilders
Jan 22 2010, 09:25 PM
Englishalways
Jan 22 2010, 09:17 PM
Did people think Bush was joking when he said its a crusade. The Chrisitan radicals have been crusading the East for many years. They have also displayed many times in Afghanistan, this is nothing new.

We can't call Muslims religous fanatics and ingnore the Christian ones, infact the Christian ones maybe the cause of this 'holy war'.
You should read your history before you post such drivel. Learn to think before you speak and go do some research on the Crusades.
Exactly which part is drivel?

Bush mentioning the crusade or the military using christianity as part of the war?
The "Christian fanatics are the cause of this holy war" part!
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Punisher
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Our generation should realize that the Crusaders saved us from a bleak and gory fate of being subjugated by the murderous and beastlike Muslims. We owe the Crusaders our gratitude and need to take inspiration from their spirit, grit, determination and ruthless bravery for completing their unfinished task. It is no wonder that in a spontaneous expression of his mindset President Bush called the war on Terror – “a Crusade”.

I didn't write that, but I love it :D


"Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give
you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers."

Qur'an 9:14

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agamemnon
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i wouldnt say its christian fanatics that led the way for this holy war. but its got a lot to do with america and some of the poeple through out the world they support overtly or covertly.
as to a christian company putting religios symbols or quotes on its weapons so bloody what?
many squaddies have named vehicles or weapons be it for fun, luck or religion and having god on your side. and basically the weapons are being used in a religios war that islam is raging against the west, so if christian messages help that company feel better and that they are doing their part for their god then so be it
punisher the crusaders where a blod thirsty group of people out to get what they could for themselves, i dont belive they did it for god i belive they did it for power and money. even the templers and hospital of st. john have a lot of innocent blood on their hands. the crusades did nothing for us apart from cost a lot of moeny and needless loss of life. and remembr the final fact of the crusades WE LOST
Edited by agamemnon, Jan 22 2010, 11:44 PM.
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We lost the crusades, for f**k sakes. Nobody told me and I was watching sky news all day and they never mentioned it
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