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UKIP Wants to ban the Burka; Good on em!
Topic Started: Jan 16 2010, 12:37 PM (338 Views)
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The UK Independence Party is to call for a ban on the burka and the niqab — the Islamic cloak that covers women from head to toe and the mask that conceals most of the face — claiming they affront British values. The policy, which a number of European countries are also debating, is an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6990402.ece

They seem to be the only party taking these issues seriously. They got my vote, that's for sure.
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i know our politics are our own, but this party is getting more appealing every time i hear them.
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I vote UKIP in EU elections although I think I will vote conservative in the next election not because I like them just because I believe they are the only ones who have a chance of beating labour and I feel we can move on from change
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There's going to be a lot of vote splitting on the right, with the Tories, UKIP and the BNP all upping the tempo, pre-election. I hope it doesn't let Labour in the back door, but I don't think it will; a lot of former Labour supporters will vote BNP I would imagine, but I think some will also switch to the LibDems as a protest vote.

Whichever party says that they'll put at least a 10-year ban on Turkish immigration into this country, should Turkey enter the EU, will get another vote boost. UKIP should say that, even though they obviously want to pull out of the EU altogether. If the Tories said it, a lot of votes would head in their direction. It would be nice to see the Tories pressured into giving a promise on this point - that would show their real intentions!

It's going to be an interesting election if nothing else, but it won't be enough to save our country. I hope people don't get sidetracked!
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Dodger46
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To be honest the forthcoming elections frighten the s**te outa me, who the hell do we vote for? (obviously not labour) Realistically there is no one of any substance, there are one or two that give us hope, but are their parties strong enough to implement changes?
There will of course be many protest votes but this will only serve to weaken the the overall strength of any incoming Goverment.
I find myself levitating towards UKIP - but have they the balls to do what they say they will do? will they get sufficient votes to become a party of political clout? Cameron has proved so far to be an absolute pussy and one that goes back on "cast iron" promises, A chocolate teapot.
I can tell you my friends the coming elections will go down in history as being the most damaging in English politics unless a politician emerges that is prepared to get this country by the scruff of the neck and shake the s**te out of it! For that person (should they exist) will surely get the vote
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ImperialEmperor
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I vote UKIP in EU elections although I think I will vote conservative in the next election not because I like them just because I believe they are the only ones who have a chance of beating labour and I feel we can move on from change


I'd Like a Hung Parliament in the next election. It would increase the disatisfation with the Big three when it turns out to be incompetant or breaks aparts. More Dissatisfaction and More EDL supporters, More UKIP supporters.
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ImperialEmperor
Jan 16 2010, 01:49 PM
I'd Like a Hung Parliament in the next election.
Can we hang the ones we've got first! :P
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rudyard
Jan 16 2010, 02:09 PM
ImperialEmperor
Jan 16 2010, 01:49 PM
I'd Like a Hung Parliament in the next election.
Can we hang the ones we've got first! :P
Gordon Brown might be a tricky one to hang....
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AndyK
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Getting back to the issue of banning the burkha - this issue really tears me in two.

I loathe just about everything the burkha represents (and I think it's noteworthy that the Muslim Canadian Council want it banned as well) but the libertarian in me finds the idea of banning a mode of dress hard to stomach. I know it's - arguably - an unlikely scenario, but it is possible that a woman might freely choose to adopt this kind of attire, without having been previously subject to any coercion. In such a situation, has the state any right to criminalise her act?

As I say though, I'm divided - i would be delighted to hear a solid counter argument that would somehow reconcile a support for a ban with a full throated commitment to civil liberty! :)
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ImperialEmperor
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Quote:
 


I'd Like a Hung Parliament in the next election.

Can we hang the ones we've got first! :P

Gordon Brown might be a tricky one to hang....


Lol!

I wouldnt just hang Gordon Brown. I'd Hang, draw and quarter the c**t, Incinarate the remains and ask everyone in Britain if they wouldnt mind joining me pissing on his Ashes.
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"The Death of one Man is a tragedy, the death of a Million is a statistic"
Joseph Stalin

"I have nothing to declare but my genius"
Oscar Wilde

"Imperialism is the highest form of Capitalism"
Vladmir Lenin

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ImperialEmperor
Jan 16 2010, 07:35 PM
Quote:
 


I'd Like a Hung Parliament in the next election.

Can we hang the ones we've got first! :P

Gordon Brown might be a tricky one to hang....


Lol!

I wouldnt just hang Gordon Brown. I'd Hang, draw and quarter the c**t, Incinarate the remains and ask everyone in Britain if they wouldnt mind joining me pissing on his Ashes.
Spoken with true hate, I shall donate some of my urine for the cause.
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AndyK
Jan 16 2010, 07:31 PM
Getting back to the issue of banning the burkha - this issue really tears me in two.

I loathe just about everything the burkha represents (and I think it's noteworthy that the Muslim Canadian Council want it banned as well) but the libertarian in me finds the idea of banning a mode of dress hard to stomach. I know it's - arguably - an unlikely scenario, but it is possible that a woman might freely choose to adopt this kind of attire, without having been previously subject to any coercion. In such a situation, has the state any right to criminalise her act?

As I say though, I'm divided - i would be delighted to hear a solid counter argument that would somehow reconcile a support for a ban with a full throated commitment to civil liberty! :)
Any woman wearing a burqa falls into one of the following three categories:

1) She has been coerced physically.
2) She has been coerced mentally.
3) She is an extremist.

In the first two cases, she needs to be freed from the burqa so that she can integrate into society. As for the latter, if any woman truly believed - of her own volition - that God wanted her to cover her face in public at all times, then she would obviously choose to leave a country that prohibited such, rather than go against God. I suspect that very few would choose to go, but any that did would be exercising the 'right' to leave; that's civil liberties in action! :)


Edit: typo.
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nemisis123456
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UKIP had my vote anyway fair play to them!
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AndyK
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Agree with your analysis rudyard - almost!

If the government/civil society were truly serious about preserving our freedoms, then situations 1) and 2) would become truly rare, if not effectively non-existent (simply because the legal sanctions imposed upon, and the overwhelming social disapproval directed towards, anyone attempting to exercise such coercion would be severe).

I think that in such an environment, the number of women freely choosing to wear the burkha - situation 3) - would be vanishingly small, and no threat to wider society.

Still hate seeing women wearing the burkha as things are at the moment though - almost certainly not as a result of free choice.
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I always believed women pride themselves on how they're presented. Dress, hair and make up and etc. Always believed because they like to look good.

How can a burqa be good for a woman's self-esteem? Not being able to make yourself presentable for people to enjoy a conversation. Let's be honest, how many of you have enjoyed conversations with beautiful women? We all do, if a woman's not allowed to feel good because she's scared her husband will beat her, then that's sign of oppression.

The idea that the burqa prevents anyone from having sexual urges is ridiculous, when a rapist rapes his victim, the chances are that they know them personally source: - http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2009/01/05/potential-rapists-noh-vers/

So the burqa wouldn't do s**t to prevent anything.

Rudy nailed it on the head, I completely agree with what you said.
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AndyK
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100% agree with you TheEnglishmanDylan.

Please don't think I'm defending the burkha as a good thing - I'm absolutely not. As far as I'm concerned, the burkha (and the culture/ideology it reflects) is crudely aggressive, brutally misogynist and entirely backward looking. I can think of no possible argument in favour of it.

I was only defending the right of a woman to wear it in the unlikely event that she were to FREELY choose to.
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I agree, it should be their choice. But their choice should be questioned, why would you chose to alienate yourself, the hijab is perfectly fine IMO, you can see their face, so I have no problem with talking to them face to face, the hijab isn't a requirement, but for the female wearing it, it's not only a symbol of her faith, but they can incorporate it with western fashion without exposing their bodies, that the Qu'ran states is wrong.

http://welovehijab.com/

This website is run by Muslim women who love fashion, they're providing young and old Muslim women fashion tips that are within the rules of Islam.
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Capt Haddock
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Personally, I think it is a great idea, however, I have a profound mistrust of British politics at the moment, and in view of this negative vibe, I feel Ukip are just using this tactic to gain votes whilst knowing fully well that the Human Rights mob will be up in arms, and ultimately turn it down.
Blistering Barnacles!
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ForwardThinker
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UKIP will get my vote everytime, I want to lead them in the future if I get the chance.
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Nigel Farage (UKIP) and Salma Yaqoob (terrorist supporting leader of 'Respect') have just been debating this on 'The Politics Show' - BBC1.

Missed the start, but the presenter and Yaqoob were ganging up against Farage. No surprise there then for the beeb!
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nemisis123456
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PJS
Jan 16 2010, 09:18 PM
Personally, I think it is a great idea, however, I have a profound mistrust of British politics at the moment, and in view of this negative vibe, I feel Ukip are just using this tactic to gain votes whilst knowing fully well that the Human Rights mob will be up in arms, and ultimately turn it down.
I would agree that politicians use issues to gain votes no question about that. Having said that about UKIP would you say the same about Griffin? I mean he was in Stoke friday promoting the BNP just a week before our demo!

Coincidence? Or was he pre-empting a recruitment drive that the EDL would inadvertently facillitate?

Politicians are politicians no matter what party they always come up with some way to further their own cause even if it means hanging onto and utilising someone elses!

Edit poor grammar.
Edited by nemisis123456, Jan 17 2010, 01:47 PM.
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I found out on the BNP website that UKIP stole one of their policys.

Link
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8683267
Jan 17 2010, 01:50 PM
I found out on the BNP website that UKIP stole one of their policys.
It's hardly a novel policy - parties all across Europe have got their own versions, including the current French government.
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Capt Haddock
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Quote: 'Politicians are politicians no matter what party they always come up with some way to further their own cause even if it means hanging onto and utilising someone elses!'

The political pantomime is about to swing into overdrive, undoubtedly there will much rhetoric and grand plans to save the country from the ills of labour. Be prepared, if the politicians aren't kissing babies in one hand, they'll be stealing their lollypops with the other.
Blistering Barnacles!
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Jethro
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rudyard
Jan 17 2010, 02:27 PM
8683267
Jan 17 2010, 01:50 PM
I found out on the BNP website that UKIP stole one of their policys.
It's hardly a novel policy - parties all across Europe have got their own versions, including the current French government.
But are they policies they actually stand by and believe in. or are they hollow popular politics, the banning of islam4uk being a prime example.
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nemisis123456
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PJS
Jan 17 2010, 03:15 PM
Quote: 'Politicians are politicians no matter what party they always come up with some way to further their own cause even if it means hanging onto and utilising someone elses!'

The political pantomime is about to swing into overdrive, undoubtedly there will much rhetoric and grand plans to save the country from the ills of labour. Be prepared, if the politicians aren't kissing babies in one hand, they'll be stealing their lollypops with the other.
LOL how true! :D
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watforddan
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southwestedl
Jan 16 2010, 12:37 PM
Quote:
 
The UK Independence Party is to call for a ban on the burka and the niqab — the Islamic cloak that covers women from head to toe and the mask that conceals most of the face — claiming they affront British values. The policy, which a number of European countries are also debating, is an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6990402.ece

They seem to be the only party taking these issues seriously. They got my vote, that's for sure.
Yeah and we like our Post boxes Red and static like the British God made them, We do not like the black garbed ones on two legs thank you!
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watforddan
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aclockworkorangeuk
Jan 16 2010, 01:15 PM
i know our politics are our own, but this party is getting more appealing every time i hear them.
Yeah I agree. I thinkthey look the most credible for all protest voters.
Had a debate with my Dad over this one who thinks that it will be a wasted vote. I don't, change has to come. It never will with the Lib Lab Con alliance of lies and bullcrap
British by Birth, English by the grace of God
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watforddan
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Dodger46
Jan 16 2010, 01:47 PM
To be honest the forthcoming elections frighten the s**te outa me, who the hell do we vote for? (obviously not labour) Realistically there is no one of any substance, there are one or two that give us hope, but are their parties strong enough to implement changes?
There will of course be many protest votes but this will only serve to weaken the the overall strength of any incoming Goverment.
I find myself levitating towards UKIP - but have they the balls to do what they say they will do? will they get sufficient votes to become a party of political clout? Cameron has proved so far to be an absolute pussy and one that goes back on "cast iron" promises, A chocolate teapot.
I can tell you my friends the coming elections will go down in history as being the most damaging in English politics unless a politician emerges that is prepared to get this country by the scruff of the neck and shake the s**te out of it! For that person (should they exist) will surely get the vote
wish that was true, but for all our protests I am hearing a lot of people advocating the main three. If so, that's another shift towards alien domination of our country.
British by Birth, English by the grace of God
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J_C
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This will definately take alot of the votes away from the BNP. To me its a desperate act from a party that has no real direction.
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nemisis123456
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I wouldn't say it was desperate who in the right mind would reject such a policy anyway? UKIP don't have the baggage of the BNP therefore they are far more credible for breaking into the mainstream.

BNP won't ever achieve that for obvious reasons.
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Jethro
Jan 17 2010, 03:34 PM
rudyard
Jan 17 2010, 02:27 PM
8683267
Jan 17 2010, 01:50 PM
I found out on the BNP website that UKIP stole one of their policys.
It's hardly a novel policy - parties all across Europe have got their own versions, including the current French government.
But are they policies they actually stand by and believe in. or are they hollow popular politics, the banning of islam4uk being a prime example.
Doesn't really matter at the end of the day; certainly not at the next election anyway. Neither the BNP nor UKIP are going to sneek in under the radar and form a government - there's too many people out there who only care about their own lives 'now', as opposed to the lives of future generations.
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Driftwood
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I think UKip are the best of the lot, Nigel Farage is a great MEP shame he stepped down as leader would of loved to see him as Primeminister. However I think they have been too quiet, as far as not voting mainstream BNP seems to come up more than UKip which is frightning but understandable, anything but Labour! just wish conservative had more backbone. Tactics or Morals - just don't know

http://www.ukip.org/petition/Referendum-on-the-EU
Edited by Driftwood, Jan 17 2010, 06:56 PM.
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Capt Haddock
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Driftwood
Jan 17 2010, 06:53 PM
I think UKip are the best of the lot, Nigel Farage is a great MEP shame he stepped down as leader would of loved to see him as Primeminister. However I think they have been too quiet, as far as not voting mainstream BNP seems to come up more than UKip which is frightning but understandable, anything but Labour! just wish conservative had more backbone. Tactics or Morals - just don't know

http://www.ukip.org/petition/Referendum-on-the-EU
It appears to be a massive problem with all parties; all appear to have lost the confidence of the public en masse. The general perception I hear is that people simply feel parliament will soon become a Buckingham palace sort of place. An attraction for tourists to marvel at:

"Wow look at that Joey, that place used to be the mother of all Parliaments'."

The European super state will leave us (as if they haven't already) politically dead in the water, parliaments functional capacity nothing more than a token gesture of defiance. Don't believe the hype, believe in reality.

Ukip's stance seems nothing more than a smoke screen to me, every mainstream party supports the inclusion of Turkey into the EU... granting 80+ million Muslims freedom to roam around Europe. Strange how Ukip have nothing to say about this issue.


Edited by Capt Haddock, Jan 17 2010, 09:43 PM.
Blistering Barnacles!
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avfc1982
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They can wear a burkha, as long as I can walk through city centre with a balaclava because I don't want women drolling over me (ok, that's unlikely)!
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UKIP have some excellent, well reasoned policys and I think they would do a great job in Government.
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This is why politically wise - I choose UKIP.
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yabbadabbagoo
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AndyK
Jan 16 2010, 07:31 PM
Getting back to the issue of banning the burkha - this issue really tears me in two.

I loathe just about everything the burkha represents (and I think it's noteworthy that the Muslim Canadian Council want it banned as well) but the libertarian in me finds the idea of banning a mode of dress hard to stomach. I know it's - arguably - an unlikely scenario, but it is possible that a woman might freely choose to adopt this kind of attire, without having been previously subject to any coercion. In such a situation, has the state any right to criminalise her act?

As I say though, I'm divided - i would be delighted to hear a solid counter argument that would somehow reconcile a support for a ban with a full throated commitment to civil liberty! :)
What a load of s**t. Next youll be telling us that the muslim who stones his wife or daughter is acting within the law lest it infringe upon his liberties. Unfortunately the muslim world recognises no civil liberty especially if you happen to be female, They are the most intollerent peoples on the planet. The only party who have our interests at heart are the BNP. As for the hung parliament I agree hang the f**king lot of them they are all traitors....
"" A true soldier does not fight because they hate what is in front of them, but because they love what is behind them..."
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