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| Should we be proud of the British empire? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 6 2009, 05:35 PM (209 Views) | |
| Shakespeare | Nov 6 2009, 05:35 PM Post #1 |
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Lots of countries and lots of people suffered due to the British empire and some are still trying to recover today. However, we in Britain probably still indirectly reap the benefits of it. Do you think we should be proud of the British empire? If we never ran the world, another country would have and who knows what would have happened... |
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| AgeofEnlightenment | Nov 6 2009, 05:38 PM Post #2 |
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Kafir
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I think we should be proud of the achievements under the British empire, but I'm no fan of colonialism so I guess that's a no. Keep in mind that showing huge support for colonialism will isolate members of other races or religions. |
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"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." Friedrich Nietzsche "All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot. "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin | |
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| Deleted User | Nov 6 2009, 05:51 PM Post #3 |
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The British Empire did a lot of good to a lot of peoples, still is. I am very proud of this. |
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| Shakespeare | Nov 6 2009, 05:58 PM Post #4 |
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I'm not talking about the EDL as an organisation Im talking about Englishmen in general. I agree with your statement. I think that we should be proud of what we achieved. It is history after all, the rest of Europe were trying to do the same thing we was, we simply did it better. |
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| AgeofEnlightenment | Nov 6 2009, 06:00 PM Post #5 |
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Kafir
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Well not true, the French had some excellent thinkers and scientists in their renaissance, so did Germany and Italy, the former of which has a scientist (Gottfriend Liebniz) who shares the discovery of calculus with Isaac Newton. England though has one of the greatest scientists in it's history; Michael Faraday. |
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"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." Friedrich Nietzsche "All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot. "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin | |
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| ignominius | Nov 6 2009, 06:07 PM Post #6 |
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Infidel
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It's easy to sit back with modern 21st century ideals and attitudes and be critical of the period and British colonialism. With our more enlightened ways colonialism is a big no-no and anyone attempting (like the Russians are in Georgia and the Ukraine) should rightly be soundly castigated. However, back in the days of empire, we did much good as well as much bad. People tend to forget the very good and focus on the bad. But never forget the empire bankrupted itself fighting three wars of oppression - Napoleon and his continental system, the Kaiser and the Hapsburgs, and Hitler. The empire was built out of trade originally but as it grew it became a colonising machine no worse than any of the other European empires of the time. Another thing to remember, is that whilst we did do some very wrong things - the virtual annihalation of the Australian aborigines , the Maoris etc for example, most of the post colonisal countries are doing far better than their French counterparts. And if the empire was so bad why has Mozambique joined the commonwealth when it's was a German-Portuguese colony not a British one. Also, I know first hand of one ex-colony where many, many of the inhabitants have said to me that they would rather be back under colonial rule - because they were so much better off then than they are now. (Although I think that would be a bad move for a variety of reasons but that's another story). No I think, in it's proper perspective we can be proud of the Empire and it's achievements but at the same time remember that we also did some very bad things and temper our thoughts with that. |
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| Shakespeare | Nov 6 2009, 06:10 PM Post #7 |
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I heard that the chinese people prefered Hong Kong under British rule or something to a similar effect? |
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| ignominius | Nov 6 2009, 06:11 PM Post #8 |
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Infidel
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AoE, Faraday was one of the giants of science of his day, but Newton stands head and shoulders over just all of them. He wasn't just a mathematician as Liebniz was, he was a physicist, astronomer and philosopher. I think that only one other man beats him into the dust and he is Leonardo Da Vinci! What, in my opinion anyway, pulls Newton down is his character assasination of Robert Hooke. Hooke, if you look into it was almost as great as Newton. Newton knew this and didn't like anyone stealing his thunder and so Robert Hooke as almost erased from history. |
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| ignominius | Nov 6 2009, 06:13 PM Post #9 |
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Infidel
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I was scanning around for some info on Hong Kong a few weeks back and came across alot of postings by the chinese on that very subject. I obviously couldn't read the ones in chinese, and I guess they were the ones protesting that things were fine under the new Chinese government, but the overwhelming number of posters that said that life was better under the Brits staggered me. Especially as I was a supporter of the handover. Now I wonder if we really did do the right thing even if it was the legal thing to do! |
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| AgeofEnlightenment | Nov 6 2009, 06:20 PM Post #10 |
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Kafir
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Not really, Newton has some pretty silly ideas about alchemy that were useless, but his contributions to maths/physics are not forgotten. Faraday made the largest contributions, so in effect he stands over Newton. Leonardo Da Vinci was a great man, definitely a 'true renaissance man' as he was described, but in terms of science Faraday still beats him in terms of contributions; adding to our knowledge in chemistry, maths, physics, electrical theory, etc... All ideas of which were the breaking ground for later theories that would be applied to make the electrical appliances and products we use today like the lightbulb, electro-plating, solar cells, etc... So hands down, greatest scientist ever. You also wont see Faraday having childish fits about fellow scholars or atheists like Newton did. Also as for your other post about 'looking back from 21st century views' well isn't that exactly what we do when arguing about scriptural violence in the quran? You can't have it both ways I'm afraid ignominius. |
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"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." Friedrich Nietzsche "All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot. "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin | |
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| ignominius | Nov 6 2009, 06:22 PM Post #11 |
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I'm not taking the bait today! :o) We work better as a team.
Edited by ignominius, Nov 6 2009, 06:22 PM.
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| AgeofEnlightenment | Nov 6 2009, 06:22 PM Post #12 |
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Kafir
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Shakespeare: I've also read on some forums that some hindus considered British rule to be a good thing, but unfortunately this is not a majority-held view despite the fact it was a lot less tyrannical than the previous Mughal dynasties (in fact British rule in those times was referred to as a breath of fresh air). Likewise they haven't forgotten that when they tried to win indepedence from British rule, they were slaughtered in the thousands much like what happened in Ireland, the Americas, etc... |
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"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." Friedrich Nietzsche "All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot. "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin | |
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| Shakespeare | Nov 6 2009, 07:24 PM Post #13 |
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I was watching a Bruce Lee documentary and apparently Hong Kong experienced mass chinese immigration after Lee's movies were released because the British owned Hong Kong looked like a haven to them compared to the conditions they lived in. |
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| ImperialEmperor | Nov 6 2009, 08:01 PM Post #14 |
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Kafir
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Yes we should be proud of the Empire, We built the Foundations of many of the Great Powers of Today, Most of India's Infastructure was build by British Engineers, We boosted Many of these countries 50 years ahead development wise. Some of these Countries Like Burma where almost living in the Dark ages. We introduced many Modern Idea's such as Industrialization,Liberty, Proper Democratic governments and Constitutions to the Colonies. Hell We even had success stories! Look at Canada, Australia, India, Hong Kong and New Zealand. These countries were given Time to Mature as Dominions, Develop an Identity and Government before they were made independant, Now Look them ! Vibrant World Powers! One of the Reason Britain got Flak was because looking at the Collapse of the Parts of Empire after they were Independant. Africa for Example. We get a Lot of Flak for that. The Africians Universally wanted Independance after we gave the more Mature Dominions Independance earlier. In My opinion they werent ready for it, We should have held on to them for another 40 years, and Contined developing them until they could function as a Nations. Look At Zimbabwe, The "Breadbasket of Africa", Bloody Zimbabwe under the British control grew enough food to feed all of Africa! Just think of all the Wealth and Food Africa would be producing if we still controlled them or did the job properly, No more Poverty or Famine for sure. But after Popular Support grew we flung the Keys to the Country at the first person we saw , a now-Despot. We gave a Country who had existed as thousands of Isolated Tribe Soicities till 100 years previously total Independance, Madness. They werent ready for it. And this was proved by the Collapse of Africa post Independance, with Tribalism Rife, economic downfall and almost universal Political Despotism or Oliarchism throughout. What a Mess. British Empire- One of the Better empires of History. |
![]() "The Death of one Man is a tragedy, the death of a Million is a statistic" Joseph Stalin "I have nothing to declare but my genius" Oscar Wilde "Imperialism is the highest form of Capitalism" Vladmir Lenin | |
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| Deleted User | Nov 7 2009, 01:18 AM Post #15 |
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Look what the British Empire did to Iraq after uniting with the Ottoman's (oh', and France). I very much doubt they would have got there without us. Basra became a beautiful place before we left. Iraq would probably still be like Afghanistan if it wasn't for the British Empire (oh', and France). I better not forget the French, you know what they're like.
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| Shakespeare | Nov 9 2009, 02:28 AM Post #16 |
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Great post Imperial Emperor It seems wrong that we still get so much blame for the state of countries post-empire. Maybe the people of these countries just were not developed enough for full independance. Im not trying to sound like a supermacist, but I have to agree that a lot of countries were not ready for their independance that quickly. |
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| made in England | Nov 9 2009, 03:11 AM Post #17 |
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made in England
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Ahhh the French Britains natural enemy, even throughout the second world war they couldnt be trusted nor couldnt decide whos side to be on. British troops died at the hands of these bastards the Vichy French. Churchill did the right thing by destroying the French fleet in Algeria |
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"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!" Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May Werian se Angelcynn | |
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