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Why I oppose the current EDL tactics
Topic Started: Nov 2 2009, 12:52 PM (2,764 Views)
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HMFC
Nov 3 2009, 05:34 PM
AgeofEnlightenment
Nov 3 2009, 05:41 AM
I love the slander that's being aimlessly thrown at this individual posting his thoughts by dismissing his views as leftist crap. So I guess this makes us no better than the UAF and SWP for screaming abuse at us and calling us nazi scum? What a fine lot of inquisitors you are HMFC, The Span, and howdin.

I read irishcomrad's post and wondering what the hell it has to do with what the poster of this thread stated. Yes we all know about taqiyya, muslims killing non-muslims with quranic backing, etc... yet what does it actually have to do with the points raised?

Only mention of muslims I see in the original post is about working with some of them for community work (a noble idea), that some muslims feel isolated within society and often turn to extremism (a valid point), and that not all people here think that all muslims are evil (although cheers for some people here proving him wrong on this point).

Acting like a bunch of 2 year olds ranting on about how this is leftist propaganda is not only counter-productive, it's pseudo-intellectual. Yes he said he is leaning towards the left (maybe centre-left?), but to me the responses here are no different to the kinds we got when some members tried getting on to the RevLeft forum.

"Racist, fascist, nazi scum f**k off"

"Leftist, communist, liberal, etc..."

Same s**t different smell. Relax idiots, he's only expressing a view. No need to berrate him for it.
lol who the fuk are you to call us idiots your the idiot for crawling up his arse,infact fuk you,what you gonna do now moderator pull rank ban me
I wonder if anglo was at leeds?manc?i know i was,i know HMFC was,he even shed blood for the edl and you taking the side of a person that protests against us?what happened about loyalty to the brothers of the EDL?I also think it disgusting a so called EDL member taking the side of a person by their own admission protests against us WTF!
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Shinji Ikari,

I think the vast majority of what you have written on this thread is exactly right, particularly what you've said about Choudary trying to generate a broader backlash of feeling against the moderate Muslim community, inevitably turning them towards him.

The counter point is that if British Muslims rejected and ridiculed the man publically and en mass, it woud cause a sea change in opinion and help to achieve what we clearly both want. I realise that this is starting to happen but more effort is required. Then perhaps we can turn our attention to the greater problem of our politicians who are of course quite happy to see different communities at each others throats, and let's face it, if it wasn't for their deliberate policies of encouraging segraegation we would still be one community..

Divide and rule.

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Span
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EDL Grandad Division
if anyone really want s to help instead of writing stuff give me some real useful advice here
http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/2481543/1/#new


Acts 9:18
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BRITISH
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"BOLTON"
DFW IM WITH YOU 110 PERCENT MATE !!!! so much for bein a forum moderator , ,,,,, how the f**k can we start a cause when we cant even stick together ,,,,,,, this is a joke infact f**k EDL , with people like that we`ll get no where ,

Edited by BRITISH, Nov 3 2009, 07:12 PM.
YOUR EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US
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chri91
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DFW
Nov 3 2009, 06:29 PM
Chri91,I have a question,how do you feel about communism,im not asking what you think about stalin etc about the communism?????
It's a nice idea but doesn't work very well in practice.
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Reggie Kray
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chri91
Nov 3 2009, 06:19 PM
If you are in a war situation and they are attacking you then fine kill them, if you are in a domestic situation then you need to prove they are guilty and put them on trial.

Are you on a f**king wind up!? Have you even been outside your front door? Guilty of what? 7/7? 9/11? what exactly? oh, i see, you're ther kind of idiot that says they're all innocent until they kill you! They're f**king animals and if you pull your head out of your arse and look on you tube at some beheading and stoning videos you'll quickly realize that the only good extremist is a dead one! Don't f**king reply to me. go away and crawl under the rock you come from.
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Span
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chri91
Nov 3 2009, 07:32 PM
It's a nice idea but doesn't work very well in practice.
From the horses mouth,,
about sums up his whole reasoning on here


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Chris, you will find that some of the people that speak most loudly against radical islam are those that have served in HM Forces within countries where sharia law operates. They have seen first hand what a truly despicable system it is.

I understand how you think that debate and the hand of friendship can change things. You are only coming from your own background and have no idea of the true dangers that this archaic system presents to us all.

We must completely stop sharia law ever operating in this country. No ifs, no buts. It must be totally wiped out in this nation.

Anyone wants to be muslim, fine. In this country you can be muslim so long as you are willing to accept that the more oppressive aspects of the religion are modernised and thus accept that other religions can live alongside one another in peace.

That's all we ask.
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chri91
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DFW, are you saying that people within EDL have to always agree with each other and can't openly discuss things or think differently. If so then you are as bad as the SWP.

What I am struggling with is this idea that Islam is one giant monolithic thing. I mean about %19 of the world population are Muslim and they all have different ideas. In Egypt and Turkey they ban women covering up in certain places, and there are huge intellectual debates by Islamic scholars what is or isn’t Islamic. From the responses on this board it’s clear a lot of people just hate all Muslims, and that’s got nothing to do with tackling extremism, just being narrow-minded and hateful.
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chri91
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pdb
Nov 3 2009, 07:52 PM
Chris, you will find that some of the people that speak most loudly against radical islam are those that have served in HM Forces within countries where sharia law operates. They have seen first hand what a truly despicable system it is.<br /><br />I understand how you think that debate and the hand of friendship can change things. You are only coming from your own background and have no idea of the true dangers that this archaic system presents to us all.<br /><br />We must completely stop sharia law ever operating in this country. No ifs, no buts. It must be totally wiped out in this nation.<br /><br />Anyone wants to be muslim, fine. In this country you can be muslim so long as you are willing to accept that the more oppressive aspects of the religion are modernised and thus accept that other religions can live alongside one another in peace.<br /><br />That's all we ask.
Yes but HM forces are in specific countries where there are problems with the Taliban, which you could argue are not even really a truly Islamic organization. All Muslim countries are different so why say it's a problem with Muslims? It's like saying all Christians are like some Amercian creationist who thinks gay people are evil.
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chri91
Nov 3 2009, 07:55 PM
Yes but HM forces are in specific countries where there are problems with the Taliban, which you could argue are not even really a truly Islamic organization. All Muslim countries are different so why say it's a problem with Muslims? It's like saying all Christians are like some Amercian creationist who thinks gay people are evil.
Excuse me, but where did I say it was a problem with muslims?

Please don't do that, it isn't nice, and is a very UAF/SWP tactic.

I've said it is a problem with sharia and other archaic aspects of the religion.

If the Spanish Inquisition was starting today, I would be on the streets against that too. Yet I have no problem with catholics.
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Chris fuk off and live in a muslim area in the likes of oldham and see how you get on,you'll find real racism there remember and take your family with you,get back to us let us know how you get on,I think you really could be the man to sort this country out ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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chri91
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pdb
Nov 3 2009, 07:52 PM
Chris, you will find that some of the people that speak most loudly against radical islam are those that have served in HM Forces within countries where sharia law operates. They have seen first hand what a truly despicable system it is.<br /><br />I understand how you think that debate and the hand of friendship can change things. You are only coming from your own background and have no idea of the true dangers that this archaic system presents to us all.<br /><br />We must completely stop sharia law ever operating in this country. No ifs, no buts. It must be totally wiped out in this nation.<br /><br />Anyone wants to be muslim, fine. In this country you can be muslim so long as you are willing to accept that the more oppressive aspects of the religion are modernised and thus accept that other religions can live alongside one another in peace.<br /><br />That's all we ask.
I agree with that. Shairia law must be stopped, have you heard of the onelawforall campaign? http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/

It's a lot more likely to get some Muslim people, maybe more Muslim women onside and does not demonize all of Islam. Going down the later route is only going to spark off another race riot like Bradford or Oldham saw and make young Muslim men even more likely to turn to extermism.

I despire religious fundementalism, really I hate people being brain-washed and controled by other people like that. I hate all religous fundementalism, extermism and facism.

I like you want to see a free England where I have grown up and where I live, I just honestly think although you are well intetioned you might make things worse. Likewise you think i'm niave and might be making things worse. I'm just trying to understand your point of view and work out a solution.

I agree you have to confront extermism, I hate it when Muslim men throw stones at female friends and people don't call that racism, becuase it is. I also hate it when I hear people saying it's that fault of all Muslims becuase thats a form of racism too really.
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New chant for chris "muslim bombers do community service"
or"could we please have our country back,we promise we'll change and try to fit in.
or my fav"chri91 your a wanker,your a wanker.
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charlie
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Chr91 you not explained to us where you seen the E.D.L doing racist chants or Nazi salutes yet what demo was this please tell us and then we can try and sort it out. If you really want to be taken seriously please dont lie
A WAY OUT FOR YOU NAZI SCUM THATS INFILTRATED THE EDL
http://www.stormfront.org/
http://www.uaf.org.uk/
http://www.islam4uk.com/
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chri91
Nov 3 2009, 08:05 PM
have you heard of the onelawforall campaign? http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/

It's a lot more likely to get some Muslim people, maybe more Muslim women onside and does not demonize all of Islam.
You've done it again!

Stop it. I have not 'demonized all of islam' at all.

Either debate properly or fuck off. Your choice.
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Reggie Kray
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chri91
Nov 3 2009, 07:55 PM
Yes but HM forces are in specific countries where there are problems with the Taliban, which you could argue are not even really a truly Islamic organization. All Muslim countries are different so why say it's a problem with Muslims? It's like saying all Christians are like some Amercian creationist who thinks gay people are evil.
I can't tell you what countries i opperated in, for obvious reasons. Suffice to say that it's YOU who needs to wake up and stop talking s**t. I've done and seen things that make me wake up sweating some nights all in the cause of preventing those c**ts from reaching our shores. People like you just annoy me because you have no f**king idea what these animals are like. Taliban? I've dealt with extremists that make them look like girl guides. So, unless you know what you're talking about,(and you obviously don't) shut up! These people would have no qualms about putting a bullet in your head or cutting it off. Talk to them? Someone who we were opped to rescue tried that. See what happened to him. You have a lot to learn..
http://www.4shared.com/file/61777906/e5a2caed/Ken_Bigley_Video_-_Kenneth_Bigley_Beheading_Video.html
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chri91
Nov 3 2009, 07:53 PM
DFW, are you saying that people within EDL have to always agree with each other and can't openly discuss things or think differently. If so then you are as bad as the SWP.

What I am struggling with is this idea that Islam is one giant monolithic thing. I mean about %19 of the world population are Muslim and they all have different ideas. In Egypt and Turkey they ban women covering up in certain places, and there are huge intellectual debates by Islamic scholars what is or isn’t Islamic. From the responses on this board it’s clear a lot of people just hate all Muslims, and that’s got nothing to do with tackling extremism, just being narrow-minded and hateful.
Ill tell ya what im saying,on saturday i was in leeds with the EDL,On saturday you were in leeds opposing us,The lad i was with would back eachother up,it would have been nice to have got the same from the mods and forum users.
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FreedomFry
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it is clearly ridiculous to suggest that we talk to the extremists or do anything other than make sure they are jailed or deported. also, pretty sure Hert's 'double tap' is not on the statute books, but it would be nice to get hanging back. EDL officially rejected humouring extremists when choudary offered a debate about whether sharia or british law was better, and rightly so. That sort of thing is just taking the piss. However I can't see where chri91 suggested that we talk to the extremists. I thought he suggested that we talk to the moderates and nominals, which is actually our policy. He is also suggesting compromising our visible displays of patriotism to achieve that, which is outrageous, but the goal of bringing them on side is there.

Chri91: "the taliban is not an islamic organisation"? seriously? they call themselves muslims, they try to kill us in the name of islam, what else are we supposed to call them but muslims. it is up to patriotic muslims, and i don't just believe--i know--there are some, having met them, to make it clear that they do not consider that islam. if british muslims make it clear that their version of islam has nothing to do with that, and is peaceful and tolerant, then we can welcome them.
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All this ranting and swearing makes us all look bad
No need for it really, we all feel strongly about the extremist and the way sharia law is operating in this country, me as much as anyone.

I don't think these two are taking the piss because if you speak to people this is what they think to, we won't change peoples opinions of us by yelling at them, we'll change it with reasoned debate.

Our forum is not only a forum where people can say what they want, it is also the entry path for newcomers, many will be a bit nervous about coming on here because if they say the wrong thing, all hell breaks loose.

I'm pretty anti every religion because they all want to tell people how to live their lives and I don't need them or that.
But I have to respect their right to practice that religion as long as that practice doesn't effect me, so if after we get rid of extremist, then if Muslims or any religion doesn't interfere with me and how my country is run then I don't care what there religion does, as long as it is within the English law.
United we stand.
arthur.
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People can see what we are on the streets m8,the commies will NEVER change with reasonable debate,but they are changing because of our numbers on what they used to call their streets,also how can you debate with people who's main war cry is "no platform".My war cry is No Surrender
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marshy
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Infidel
Nov 2 2009, 01:05 PM
chri91
Nov 2 2009, 12:52 PM


These idiots sieg heiling at your events are trying to recruit you to their fascist cause

Nope.

They are trying to get us branded 'Nazis' because they hate our non-racist stance, that we actively welcome mixed races in our ranks and they hate the fact we are multi-faith and are non-homophobic. They know it will destroy us if we are branded fascist, there is no 'recruitment' motive from them, just hated and destruction.
exactly and as ive said if anyone seig heils near me they will wake up with a crowd round them
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bk4theuk
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A QUOTE FROM chri91
"These idiots sieg heiling at your events are trying to recruit you to their fascist cause, like the BNP they see how you are feeling and try and capitalize on it. They are really hateful and scared people at heart though, and there is nothing English or British about the type of society they really want us to live in. A lot of groups track these people, and their involvement in your organization has resulted in the UAF labelling you all (perhaps unfairly) as Nazi’s. Please try not to hate everyone that wrongly accuses you of that, as most are just well-meaning, but young, naive and worried the EDL will be manipulated into becoming some kind of fascist organization of the type our forefathers fought against..

Burning the Swastika was a start, but so long as there are people like this amongst the group, people will tar you all with the same brush."


This is what gets to people in Britain how we the EDL get tarnished as Nazis due to a very small minority acting up when Choudray and his cronies can blatantly slander everything about the english. Where's the balance? Or is this a big part of the problem? We cannot say jack s**t and they can have terrorist backgrounds and still be defended by some total fool such as our government.

QUOTE FROM chri91
"If we worked with Muslim people to improve our community with people who have lived in an area for generations would be a good start. I think a lot of these young Muslim lads that turn to extremism feel prosecuted, and if they had felt more part of our culture things wouldn’t be so bad. Perhaps EDL could spend a day organizing this type of thing? You would probably get some of the Left wings groups opposing you at the moment onside, and we might actually tackle extremism together effectively. If it doesn’t work then what have you got to lose?"


In an ideal world maybe but considering they the Muslims choose to move here to our country in communities and segregate themselves from us dirty kuffars I really think your way out here! Why should we make the effort? They do not like us, well that is the vast majority. Obviously not the minority!
Our government have already made the muslims feel more than welcome and the terrorists among them are absolutely thriving here, what could be better?
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Chri91,One of the main reasons some people think we are nazis is because the people you were with on saturday and maybe even you call us nazis,they and maybe even you say we are also BNP,neither are true.TBH i think most people out there know this,you just need to see the amount of people that support us to know this.Also chris i think if you think us digging gardens and painting over graffiti will combat radical islam you are sadly misguided,Its gone well beyond that.We need to make our government to first acknowalge their is a problem,then for them to act and sort out this problem.The only way we will do this si to get bodies out on the streets in BIG numbers,like we are doing and keep doing it with bigger and bigger numbers until they listen/act/sort just like we are going to do.Now you have told us what you think we should do now go back and tell the people you protest with we are neither a nazi organisation and neither are we part of the BNP.You could also tell them to stop shouting this at our protests,then maybe,just maybe if they do this we might treat your kind of people with a bit less contempt when they come here.
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bk4theuk
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QUOTE FROM chri91
"At the moment your protests just seem to be creating more of a division between communities, and will perhaps make it harder to gain trust and prevent young people being radicalised by extremists. If you have people fighting in the streets, then another race riot could be sparked, and that’s only going to turn more young people towards extremism. Maybe this is a counter-productive way of going about things?

If this is what will turn more young people towards extremism then I'm sorry to say these people must be that way inclined. Anyone with a decent bone in their body would not turn to extremism unless this was how they were born and bred.
I do agree mostly with your last paragraph. The fat cats in our government have milked this country for everything they can. But I personally do believe that immigration has definitely had a great impact on our present day woes. Too many people, not enough homes, jobs, health care etc.... The government are now saying far more people came to this country than they had originally anticipated. How they cannot do simple maths is beyond me but these are the dicks running the show!
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BRITISH
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"BOLTON"
chri91



what i really get annoyed with with these uaf wankers chantin nazi scum riles me do they not remember our parents grand parents where in a world f**kin war twice with nazis , i despise nazis nazi germany , and if one of them uaf TOUGH GUYS ever wants shout it into our faces LIKE REAL MEN without police protection you only have message me !!!!!!!!!!

cos your f**kin cowards

or was there parents like mr straw cowardice to there country ,this is the only way they feel they can make up for past time ,




Edited by BRITISH, Nov 3 2009, 11:10 PM.
YOUR EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US
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nemisis123456
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bk4theuk
Nov 3 2009, 09:49 PM
A QUOTE FROM chri91
"These idiots sieg heiling at your events are trying to recruit you to their fascist cause, like the BNP they see how you are feeling and try and capitalize on it. They are really hateful and scared people at heart though, and there is nothing English or British about the type of society they really want us to live in. A lot of groups track these people, and their involvement in your organization has resulted in the UAF labelling you all (perhaps unfairly) as Nazi’s. Please try not to hate everyone that wrongly accuses you of that, as most are just well-meaning, but young, naive and worried the EDL will be manipulated into becoming some kind of fascist organization of the type our forefathers fought against..

Burning the Swastika was a start, but so long as there are people like this amongst the group, people will tar you all with the same brush."


This is what gets to people in Britain how we the EDL get tarnished as Nazis due to a very small minority acting up when Choudray and his cronies can blatantly slander everything about the english. Where's the balance? Or is this a big part of the problem? We cannot say jack s**t and they can have terrorist backgrounds and still be defended by some total fool such as our government.

QUOTE FROM chri91
"If we worked with Muslim people to improve our community with people who have lived in an area for generations would be a good start. I think a lot of these young Muslim lads that turn to extremism feel prosecuted, and if they had felt more part of our culture things wouldn’t be so bad. Perhaps EDL could spend a day organizing this type of thing? You would probably get some of the Left wings groups opposing you at the moment onside, and we might actually tackle extremism together effectively. If it doesn’t work then what have you got to lose?"


In an ideal world maybe but considering they the Muslims choose to move here to our country in communities and segregate themselves from us dirty kuffars I really think your way out here! Why should we make the effort? They do not like us, well that is the vast majority. Obviously not the minority!
Our government have already made the muslims feel more than welcome and the terrorists among them are absolutely thriving here, what could be better?
Quote:
 
This is what gets to people in Britain how we the EDL get tarnished as Nazis due to a very small minority acting up when Choudray and his cronies can blatantly slander everything about the english. Where's the balance? Or is this a big part of the problem? We cannot say jack s**t and they can have terrorist backgrounds and still be defended by some total fool such as our government.


Couldnt agree more with this sentiment.

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nemisis123456
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Shinji Ikari
Nov 3 2009, 03:35 PM
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However it would seem that quite a large percentage of muslims would like to implement shariah law here, this MUST be curtailed at all costs. If muslims don't like our laws and customs then frankly they have no place in our secular society.

And muslims who want to embrace violence should be met with exactly that. I'm not a religious person but "do unto others what they would do to you"

When dealing with islamofascists my stance is extreme but only reciprocal to their cause.


I'm sure you agree with me that anyone who doesn't abide by our laws must leave our society. Also, anyone who doesn't follow our customs should leave our society. After all, why come to the UK if you don't like the UK way?

The thing is though, my only concern right now is baiting, and I can see it quite clearly, that people are being baited to rise against (what they percieve) as a colossal Muslim uprising. Now this baiting isn't coming f the EDL, it's coming from the Extremists and the Media who broadcast and given over-zealous coverage to these extremists, along with blurring the line between "Extremist" and "Muslim".

Of course, we do have a problem, but I believe the situation is being over-exaggerated by some degree.

Labour has unleashed a devastating mass-Immigration scheme which has over-populated the country, as well as promoting initiatives which seem to penalise the indeginous British population. Not only that, but across Europe and in the UK, Islam is on the rise - but does that mean Militant Islam is on the rise?

Of course, we have plenty of Muslims (and non-Muslims) who hate the country, and don't wish to integrate. All I'm concerned about is that people properly identify who they're against, and not start blaming Moderate Muslims for the words and actions of a few Extremist - otherwise, to be quite honest, those Moderates will cut their "alliance" with you.

However, I can understand the frustration when our own Government appears to be part of the problem, not solution.
Quote:
 
Quote:
 
I'm sure you agree with me that anyone who doesn't abide by our laws must leave our society. Also, anyone who doesn't follow our customs should leave our society. After all, why come to the UK if you don't like the UK way?


Absolutely agree with that.

Quote:
 
The thing is though, my only concern right now is baiting, and I can see it quite clearly, that people are being baited to rise against (what they percieve) as a colossal Muslim uprising. Now this baiting isn't coming f the EDL, it's coming from the Extremists and the Media who broadcast and given over-zealous coverage to these extremists, along with blurring the line between "Extremist" and "Muslim".


Well you see mate on paper it doesnt always look so bad. I live in the Birmingham area and let me tell you about communities in conflict with muslims mostly from (certainly not exclusive to) the Packistani community. I choose my wording here simply because the "media" like to portray problems in the muslim community as an "Asian" problem, lets not forget that there are Sikhs, Hindus, Bhuddist, Christian Asian communities who have their own problems with muslims. Its not exclusive to the Asian community either, in Birmingham the Muslim Packistani community were in conflict with Afro Caribbean's. Simply put there are muslim "ghettos" popping up all over the country where whites and blacks arnt really welcome. This is utter bollocks and Brits are going to do what they do best and tell these particular "type" of muslims to go f**k themselves. Sorry for the lack of eloquence on this matter but its a contemptuous one.

We have had enough of this crap. And there is a "substantial" number of muslims who WANT shariah law implemented so this alone is reason enough. I dont want to sound like im taking the piss but do you actually know how its "constituted"? Yes muslims differ and i DO differentiate between "literal" practicing muslims and moderate/cultural/nominal muslims, the overwhelming concern is that muslims are far too quiet, that said recognition MUST be given to the few muslims out there who are prepared to stand against this crap.

Quote:
 
Of course, we do have a problem, but I believe the situation is being over-exaggerated by some degree.


Can you substantiate this please or at least use some form of rationale other than personal thoughts, i like to deal with facts rather than opinion.

Quote:
 
Of course, we have plenty of Muslims (and non-Muslims) who hate the country, and don't wish to integrate. All I'm concerned about is that people properly identify who they're against, and not start blaming Moderate Muslims for the words and actions of a few Extremist - otherwise, to be quite honest, those Moderates will cut their "alliance" with you.


This i agree with too, however one must realise the varying degrees of "moderation" that muslims will apply to their faith which earn themselves the title of "moderates". Moderate muslims can still uphold some very disgusting ideals. Lets say they may "moderate" the sword verses of the quran and live peacefully while thinking its fine to marry a mere child and have sex with her. The list is non exhaustive of course. My stance is that we NEED muslims on side, finding common ground is the challenge starting with them taking action against these fundamentalist dickheads. We are starting to see this happen but very slowly.

Quote:
 
However, I can understand the frustration when our own Government appears to be part of the problem, not solution.


Yes absolutely.
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nemisis123456
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DFW
Nov 3 2009, 06:45 PM
HMFC
Nov 3 2009, 05:34 PM
AgeofEnlightenment
Nov 3 2009, 05:41 AM
I love the slander that's being aimlessly thrown at this individual posting his thoughts by dismissing his views as leftist crap. So I guess this makes us no better than the UAF and SWP for screaming abuse at us and calling us nazi scum? What a fine lot of inquisitors you are HMFC, The Span, and howdin.

I read irishcomrad's post and wondering what the hell it has to do with what the poster of this thread stated. Yes we all know about taqiyya, muslims killing non-muslims with quranic backing, etc... yet what does it actually have to do with the points raised?

Only mention of muslims I see in the original post is about working with some of them for community work (a noble idea), that some muslims feel isolated within society and often turn to extremism (a valid point), and that not all people here think that all muslims are evil (although cheers for some people here proving him wrong on this point).

Acting like a bunch of 2 year olds ranting on about how this is leftist propaganda is not only counter-productive, it's pseudo-intellectual. Yes he said he is leaning towards the left (maybe centre-left?), but to me the responses here are no different to the kinds we got when some members tried getting on to the RevLeft forum.

"Racist, fascist, nazi scum f**k off"

"Leftist, communist, liberal, etc..."

Same s**t different smell. Relax idiots, he's only expressing a view. No need to berrate him for it.
lol who the fuk are you to call us idiots your the idiot for crawling up his arse,infact fuk you,what you gonna do now moderator pull rank ban me
I wonder if anglo was at leeds?manc?i know i was,i know HMFC was,e even shed blood for the edl and you taking the side of a person that protests against us?what happened about loyalty to the brothers of the EDL?hI also think it disgusting a so called EDL member taking the side of a person by their own admission protests against us WTF!
HMFC, The Span, and howdin.

Lads come on would you like the moderators job? I f**kin wouldnt!

Listen believe it or not we are on the same side even if our opinions differ, AoE is someone i have known for some time and who i will vouch for, we dont always see eye to eye but thats life. He likes to deal with facts and when he made a case about irishcomrad.....

Quote:
 
I read irishcomrad's post and wondering what the hell it has to do with what the poster of this thread stated. Yes we all know about taqiyya, muslims killing non-muslims with quranic backing, etc... yet what does it actually have to do with the points raised?


He was actually right and doing his job. I have been warned from another moderator to keep to topic and not to de-rail threads.

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he even shed blood for the edl and you taking the side of a person that protests against us?what happened about loyalty to the brothers of the EDL?


Fair play to the lad and respect goes out to him. However how do you know that AoE was taking sides? Did you ask him? Look as far as i can see AoE was giving the lad an opportunity (no matter how retarded, ignorant or naive) to express his views without being mobbed. If someone wants to say something let them do it, if what they are talking about is bollocks then let them hang themselves on their words, put your case against them and PROVE them wrong.

Although i do think some people can be misguided and perhaps a little impetuous, i have to admire the spirit and the passion here. That can never be understated.

Proud to be EDL!
Edited by nemisis123456, Nov 4 2009, 12:39 AM.
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chri91
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charlie
Nov 3 2009, 08:14 PM
Chr91 you not explained to us where you seen the E.D.L doing racist chants or Nazi salutes yet what demo was this please tell us and then we can try and sort it out. If you really want to be taken seriously please dont lie
I have had friends report that from Manchester, and seen videos of the WDL in Swansea that seemed to confirm it. Also can see known fash in some pictures and videos.
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nemisis123456
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chri91
Nov 4 2009, 02:18 AM
charlie
Nov 3 2009, 08:14 PM
Chr91 you not explained to us where you seen the E.D.L doing racist chants or Nazi salutes yet what demo was this please tell us and then we can try and sort it out. If you really want to be taken seriously please dont lie
I have had friends report that from Manchester, and seen videos of the WDL in Swansea that seemed to confirm it. Also can see known fash in some pictures and videos.
Do you feel that they represent the EDL as an organisation?
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WDL Demo was hi-jacked by Nazi's. That i know. I didn't see any Nazi salutes in Manchester?

I do see some laughable stills of people doing "Nazi salutes" (when most of them are singing with their hands in the air) on youtube though.
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chri91

Why would the EDL want nazi's at their demos?

BLACK AND WHITE UNITE MATE!

Hardly a slogan representative of nazi'ism is it?

Are you aware of our non white members perchance?
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The point about getting tarnish as Nazi's becuase of one or few idiots, that's like all Muslims gettng tarnished becuae of Choudrary. It's the same thing.

Lot's of points to respond too there, wanted to say sorry to the chap from teeside if it came accross I was saying he was against all Muslims. I didn't meant to say that. Yes of course if you are not, and i'm assuming you are that's wrong. Reading over the boards, though general anti-muslim feeling seems very strong.

British, and HMFC, I can feel the sparks comming off, relax we are only talking.

Anyway I've pretty much said what I wanted to say now. I will actually try and get some people on the left to give EDL a chance to show it's true stance, but i'm just one person. You do get some idiots in UAF naturally, you get those everywhere. Most are well-meaning people though who if what you are saying is true are just misunderstanding things. Nearly everyone is really against these extermismt, so hopefully you can find a way of dealing with them, the racists, BNP and the facists. In doing that I would hope get the UAF off your back. Then we need to think what practicaly is going to stop extermism, you may get some more political attention, but in the end you need political solutions too. Looks like you have your work cut out, but if you seek peace and freedom then I wish you well.
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nemisis123456
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chri91
Nov 4 2009, 02:37 AM
The point about getting tarnish as Nazi's becuase of one or few idiots, that's like all Muslims gettng tarnished becuae of Choudrary. It's the same thing.

Lot's of points to respond too there, wanted to say sorry to the chap from teeside if it came accross I was saying he was against all Muslims. I didn't meant to say that. Yes of course if you are not, and i'm assuming you are that's wrong. Reading over the boards, though general anti-muslim feeling seems very strong.

British, and HMFC, I can feel the sparks comming off, relax we are only talking.

Anyway I've pretty much said what I wanted to say now. I will actually try and get some people on the left to give EDL a chance to show it's true stance, but i'm just one person. You do get some idiots in UAF naturally, you get those everywhere. Most are well-meaning people though who if what you are saying is true are just misunderstanding things. Nearly everyone is really against these extermismt, so hopefully you can find a way of dealing with them, the racists, BNP and the facists. In doing that I would hope get the UAF off your back. Then we need to think what practicaly is going to stop extermism, you may get some more political attention, but in the end you need political solutions too. Looks like you have your work cut out, but if you seek peace and freedom then I wish you well.
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The point about getting tarnish as Nazi's becuase of one or few idiots, that's like all Muslims gettng tarnished becuae of Choudrary. It's the same thing.


AGREED!

However "legitimate" debate about quranic texts, hadith, tafsir and sira all point to justifications, plain as day in islamic texts, for muslims to carry out the "prescriptive" word of allah.

Thankfully not all muslims follow the quran to the letter, many here recognise this and would welcome their membership and input to our cause.
Edited by nemisis123456, Nov 4 2009, 02:46 AM.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Thanks nemisis123456 for the response, my intention was good and if people want to lash out at other people for expressing their views and label them as lefty cunts; then frankly don't expect a polite response back. What goes around comes around.

HMFC:

Yes it's great to hear you defended the EDL cause, but unfortunately I can't turn up to protests as I live on the other side of the planet; so it's unfair to make jabs like that. I'd also be careful if I were you. One of your remarks here has earned you a warning, and before you lash out again over that; it wasn't me who issued it.

I know most people here are pissed off with the chipping away of our freedoms, and the racism/xenophobia from islamic extremists; but that doesn't validate you to do the same back. Frankly a lot of peoples views on this matter seem reactionary as opposed to rational and realistic.

Span:

Yet again thanks for proving I am right about how inquisitorial you are acting, since you are now creating the very us and them mentality you and other members here hate muslims doing. I'm giving this guy a platform to speak, and it's not the EDL way to cut genuine people off simply because they have some differing views to us. I'm not siding with anyone, I just value his post partially as a fresh and different view, but also a bit of an antithesis to some of the one-sided behaviour going on in these forums.

I also happen to agree with people who made some counter-arguments here like Arthur, Really, nemisis, FreedomFry, and heck even ignominius who I've had repeated disagreeance with can at least see some of the merit in what chris is saying. If you have a problem, rationally discuss it than slander people with ad hominems or use appeals to emotion like you did in your response to me.

howdin:

I know how you feel mate. There are extremists who are preaching racial hatred, segregation, and hatred towards freedom, democracy, peoples rights, and our shared cultural values. This isn't a conflict between people of differing genuine views however, and don't feel that because chris states we should tone down the nationalism a little means we should go back to the way we were before and allow these monsters the platform to continue their hatred.

The EDL needs to be of sound mind, and it stands up for the rights and freedoms of all people; not just people who happen to agree with us.
Edited by AgeofEnlightenment, Nov 4 2009, 04:04 AM.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
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Aoe.It was me that said the post you replyed to "Yes it's great to hear you defended the EDL cause, but unfortunately I can't turn up to protests as I live on the other side of the planet; so it's unfair to make jabs like that. " not HMFC.The reason i said it was not to have a jab i gen wanted to know if you had been to protests as i thought anyone that had been and put up with the s**t we get from the other side would not defend one of them,thats all.This my last coment on this subject anyway.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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It was not just you it was also the Span on page 8, I think; but yes I accidentally put that response in with HMFC instead of you or Span. Point still stands though.

I'm not going to stand up for anyone from Revleft, UAF, or any nazi groups who have malicious intentions against our members, however comparing chris and other members here who post with legitimate concerns as being lefty scum or UAF is sloppy and inquisitorial. Either respond to his points rationally or just don't bother posting abuse. That was my point.
Edited by AgeofEnlightenment, Nov 4 2009, 05:42 PM.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Reggie Kray
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Chris, you're obviously UAF. Just answer me one question, does the UAF support choudry and his sharia law? The UAF are quick enough to call us names like 'Fascist' etc but not a peep about choudry. Why is that? The UAF are traitors and should be hung in trators gate if they won't publicly denounce Choudry
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Yep, people don't listen.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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AgeofEnlightenment you called us idiots what do you expect me to say,And as for me being carefull on here wtf are you on about ban me if you want I'll still do the protests while you ensure the people who hate us get a fair hearing on here
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AgeofEnlightenment
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I called you an idiot after you and others were unjustifiably launching into chris. Standing up for chris's right to express his view is as important as anyone else here, as I have said already; if you disagree then make a rational case rather than chuck a tantrum about it.

Forums are for discussions and debates. Let's keep it that way.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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My case is that chris is her to cause splits and arguments with his patronising s**t and imo hes a wanker is that so wrong
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AgeofEnlightenment
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HMFC:

While I admire the effort to keep the EDL united and on track, debating and discussion is always going to take place and a new member isn't going to fit that bill of wanting to 'split the group.' Making the claim this person is here purely for division requires proof, so unless you have proof* there's no point making wild accusations. Likewise if someone said the same about you I would demand proof, otherwise their claim is useless and I would dismiss it immediately.

Debate and discussion will not split the EDL, sections like this are dedicated to these things where people of different political and religious views can post articles on certain things, their views, etc...

Edit - typo.
Edited by AgeofEnlightenment, Nov 4 2009, 06:04 PM.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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lol wild accusations,I would say the proof is that some of us are arguing about the lovely red chap from the uaf who has kindly pointed out to us the errors of our ways,the prob wi people like him is the lying s**t he comes out with and the typical uaf way of twisting things
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AoE please get over yourself, take a chill pill, and stop trying to get everyone to post in a away that you deem worthy.

Different strokes for different folks.

HMFC is a good lad, and loyal to the cause.
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pdb
Nov 4 2009, 07:07 PM
AoE please get over yourself, take a chill pill, and stop trying to get everyone to post in a away that you deem worthy.

Different strokes for different folks.

HMFC is a good lad, and loyal to the cause.
Here here.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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pdb:

Standing up for someones right to speak freely without being berrated is not an ego-driven thing to do, especially since this is exactly what we criticise Revleft for doing when we argued that the EDL was a just cause on their forums (their response, just label us all fascists and ban us). How is this any different by dismissing this guy as a leftist or UAF member?

If you want people to relax about this and allow others to respond in kind, maybe you should also extend that reply to DFW, HFMC, and others for reacting in exactly the same manner; or is that ego-driven as well?
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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No ego about it. My point is that a lot of people here haven't been to university, they work with their hands, not their brains. Having a reasoned debate is not something they are used to, yet they are very hard working members of society and their opinion is nonetheless valid.

HMFC, DFW, Chris, you, me and everyone has a voice and we should be allowed to use it.

If I went on to a SWP/UAF forum, I would expect a bit of stick from some of them. I'd be disappointed if I didn't. Chris knows that some folk here will be giving stick, and fair play to him he's man enough to come here anyway.

But I cannot stand quietly and watch good members of our movement being given warnings and berated upon for simply saying it as they see it. It's not right to shout someone down because they don't agree with our way of doing things, and indeed it is that mentality that has caused a lot of this nations problems. People spoke up, and were shouted down as being racist, when they were only trying to express their feelings.
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I think it is right that people be given a chance to speak, can't think of any reason why they shouldn't.

I don't think that a forum chat could possibly break our unity, we're too strong for that.
arthur.
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