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To be of English blood
Topic Started: Oct 30 2009, 01:37 PM (745 Views)
made in England
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made in England
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0740IaLscZQ&feature=PlayList&p=983694F73997CE1B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

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AgeofEnlightenment
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I like that people express interest in their history, but the Anglo-Saxons and Jutes is just one part.

What about the Romans? One of the greatest civilisations in history that had established colonies in England.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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made in England
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AgeofEnlightenment
Oct 30 2009, 01:55 PM
I like that people express interest in their history, but the Anglo-Saxons and Jutes is just one part.

What about the Romans? One of the greatest civilisations in history that had established colonies in England.
Yes i agree the Romans were one of the greatest civilizations in history and formed a large part of British history but not English.
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

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I have saxon, celt and pictish blood, I think the majority of white britons (english-scots-welsh) do too when we look at our bloodlines.
Englishness in truth is a mix of many ancient european genetic pools and probably only became english as we know it around 1200AD.
As an example, somalians are easily identifiable as somalian but they are known be a direct mix of persian and african and are a relatively recent people.
Englishness today is something else.
If you were born here, love the people, culture, history, customs, are willing to live as the English do and take up arms against her enemies, then I reckon you're english.
Just my opinion.
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ignominius
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This is a good vid too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh9DqjRFFwo&feature=related
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ignominius
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Just as a side thought. Recent DNA studies have produced some interesting facts about the make up of the British Isles. The Welsh are actually of hispanic origins whilst the Scots and the Irish are laregly from the Caucuses in Russia (it's the genetic originating homeland of red hair). The English obviously come from lower germany but arrived there from eastern Europe - from near the Black Sea.

Over printed on all of these is of course the Viking influence, particularly in the North of the country. In the North West the genetic influence appears to be of Norwegian viking origin whilst in the North East it appears to be Danish. This is backed up to a certain extent by some of the place names. Danish place names end in -by (as in Brondby), you will find in places like Yorkshire names that end in -by. Just thought I'd throw that into the 'melting pot'!
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Yeah Reg both you and AgeofEnlightenment both made interesting theories of what it means to be English.
What i find amazing is how the Romans just up and left after aprox 350 years in Britain when Rome was falling leaving what was left open to rival tribes etc hence the intervention of the invited Saxon mercenaries.
Just think of the Romano British soldiers and families that left with garrisons to fight for a country they had never seen.
Afterall Britain was just a satellite of the Roman Empire for hundreds of years , what an achievement what an Empire
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

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ignominius
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Considering that it (Britannia) was at the furthest edges of the empire, would appear to have been insignificant, it had the largest legionary presence and one of the largest auxillary army presence with in the empire. Commodus who temporarily took seat of power as emperor realised the power of having his HQ based in Britannia. What is not so widely known is that the Roman influence on the genetic pool in Britain was inconseqential. The auxillary troops probably supplied more genetic material than the citizens of Rome ever did!
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ignominius Yeah your absolutely correct regarding your postings mate but i didnt realize the Welsh were of hispanic origin, i know the South/West Welsh are mostly made up of Flemish immigrants which settled there in the 12th century, you could say they were probably known today as the first asylum seekers. fascinating stuff history
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

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ignominius
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History often throws things up that you don't expect. I'm half welsh and wondered why the Welsh didn't run to Red hair like their celtic cousins up north and across the way their in Ireland. I just love all the little threads that weave the rich tapestry of World history. Pull a thread and be amazed at what comes out sometimes!
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AgeofEnlightenment
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made in England
Oct 30 2009, 02:13 PM
AgeofEnlightenment
Oct 30 2009, 01:55 PM
I like that people express interest in their history, but the Anglo-Saxons and Jutes is just one part.

What about the Romans? One of the greatest civilisations in history that had established colonies in England.
Yes i agree the Romans were one of the greatest civilizations in history and formed a large part of British history but not English.
That's actually not true, the English received the greatest contributions since the English language is largely based of Latin, the language of the Romans.

There are even members here who sport patriotic EDL and English avatars with Latin in them.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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AgeofEnlightenment
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ignominius
Oct 31 2009, 12:29 AM
Considering that it (Britannia) was at the furthest edges of the empire, would appear to have been insignificant, it had the largest legionary presence and one of the largest auxillary army presence with in the empire. Commodus who temporarily took seat of power as emperor realised the power of having his HQ based in Britannia. What is not so widely known is that the Roman influence on the genetic pool in Britain was inconseqential. The auxillary troops probably supplied more genetic material than the citizens of Rome ever did!
Most of the Roman army were in fact Latins, and people from surrounding regions (Etruscans, People of Magna Graecia, etc...), occasionally they recruited Egyptians, Carthaginians, Iberians, Brittons, Germans, etc..., but most of the time they were in auxilliary or mercenary groups (not so much the legionnaires).

Often the soldiers of the Roman army were payed with land, usually from conquested regions (like Britannia), among also being payed in gold coins or salt. So while it is debatable whether genetically Romans contributed considerably to the English gene pool, it's very clear that English culture today was influenced in part by the Romans.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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ignominius
Oct 31 2009, 10:08 PM
History often throws things up that you don't expect. I'm half welsh and wondered why the Welsh didn't run to Red hair like their celtic cousins up north and across the way their in Ireland. I just love all the little threads that weave the rich tapestry of World history. Pull a thread and be amazed at what comes out sometimes!
My Grandfather was Welsh on my mothers side, i heard he had an amazing life, born n bred in the Rhondda valley and down the pits at the age of 13, joined up to fight for his country during the great war at 15 and half, he lied about his age after walking miles to enlist.
Went on to fight in the second world war too mainly in Burma, ended up as bus conductor where he got involved in an accident, smashed his legs and ended up with cancer, unfortunately he passed away when i was only 7 yrs old.
He married an English woman my Gran, took her back to the Rhondda to introduce her to his family but they turned theirs backs on him for having an English wife my late Gran told us, so after that he never went back again.

Yeah interesting about the red hair etc
Like you say pull that thread out of the tapestry of history with amazing results sometimes
Edited by made in England, Nov 1 2009, 10:03 PM.
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

Werian se Angelcynn
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AgeofEnlightenment
Nov 1 2009, 04:40 AM
ignominius
Oct 31 2009, 12:29 AM
Considering that it (Britannia) was at the furthest edges of the empire, would appear to have been insignificant, it had the largest legionary presence and one of the largest auxillary army presence with in the empire. Commodus who temporarily took seat of power as emperor realised the power of having his HQ based in Britannia. What is not so widely known is that the Roman influence on the genetic pool in Britain was inconseqential. The auxillary troops probably supplied more genetic material than the citizens of Rome ever did!
Most of the Roman army were in fact Latins, and people from surrounding regions (Etruscans, People of Magna Graecia, etc...), occasionally they recruited Egyptians, Carthaginians, Iberians, Brittons, Germans, etc..., but most of the time they were in auxilliary or mercenary groups (not so much the legionnaires).

Often the soldiers of the Roman army were payed with land, usually from conquested regions (like Britannia), among also being payed in gold coins or salt. So while it is debatable whether genetically Romans contributed considerably to the English gene pool, it's very clear that English culture today was influenced in part by the Romans.
They enlisted a contingent of soldiers/armies etc from every part of the Roman Empire or where ever they conquered . Prior to the invasion of Britain they replenished the ranks with inhabitants from along the Rhine amongst other places.
Britain then must have resembled the Britain of ww2 prior to D day with all the diverse troops i suppose.
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

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AgeofEnlightenment
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I'd say that's an excellent comparison, between D day and the Roman army. In some cases the Roman army would switch racially the armies fighting in different provices; for example they might have mainly Carthaginian forces based in Spain, while having Iberian forces stationed in North Africa.

Romans could have done a similar thing with those west German/Gaulish soldiers in Britannia.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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ignominius
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Only legionairies were latins from Rome and thus citizens of the empire. The auxillia were laregely drawn from all over the empire. We know for fact that Sarmations, Assyrians,Fresians and Helvetians all served in the auxilliary units based in Britain. The Auxiliia were largely non-citizens, but individual acts of heroism would earn an a miles a citizenship. Whole units who had performed with valour would also be granted citizenship in it's entirety and were usually referred to by their unit name with the letters CR or Civium Romanum (Citizens of Rome). The only other way an auxillary could gain citizenship would be to serve is full 26 years enlistment. Whilst it's true that legionaries were often rewarded with land for their service this did not apply to the auxillia. Their benefits were different.

As for switching units it wasn't done for any specific reason that they needed a unit or units in a particular place. These units once transferred rarely moved from their outpost. This caused a near rebellion on more than one occasion on the wall (Hadiran's one). There was nothing intrinsically political or a racially motivated, it was the necessities of a giant military machine that needed to defend huge borders.
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ignominius
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Both my grandmothers were from the Rhondda - My experience has been that despite the fact I'm half welsh, they the welsh told me to F*** of back to London which was strange as I didn't come from London, wasn't born there and don't speak as if I did. So I thought stuff you, you bunch of racists, I'm English and proud of it. So to all my Welsh relatives....I'm English by the grace of God and loving it!
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Ahh yes, xenophobia is common even amongst the smallest racial groups it seems. Unfortunate to hear that kind of behaviour projected at you, can't be helped I suppose.

Sorry I did forget to mention that the rewards between legionnaires and auxilliaries was very different, and my main point was that some Latins would have ended up in the English gene pool (a long with Anglo-Saxons and Jutes).

I also agree the stationing of troops was done for no specific racial or political reason, I think they had switched soldiers in Spain and North Africa due to the fact they fought the Punic Wars with the Carthaginians eventually sacking Carthage itself, and in the process they had to conquer Sicily, Sardinia, and Spain as well. All of these regions being heavily de-stabilised due to war, conflict of interest, and migrating racial groups.

The mention of Hadrian's wall is very interesting, since some of the original Brittons who inhabited the central and southern parts of Britannia migrated north into Scottland when the Romans and Vikings invaded. Some also migrated west into Wales, Ireland, and even the north-western tip of France known as Armorica.

All very fascinating in my books. Just goes to show that even those chaps who said you should piss off have no clue that we're all pretty much the same anyway.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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ignominius
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Yes, The thing to remember that of all the invaders to these shores the group that had the least impact genetics wise were the Normans. There is sufficient evidence that the Saxon/Romano-Briton gene pool was largely unaffected. Not that many Normans came over with the invasion, just largely members of the aristocracy who by and large didn't intermarry with the local population (although it did happen but not any scale that would show up in DNA studies). The important thing to remember it's not skin colour or genes that makes and Englishman any more than genes and skin colour make a German or a Frenchman, but culture and language.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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That's definitely true. Culture and language mate, the latter of which was heavily influenced by the Romans :P

Normans are descendants of Vikings mixed with Franks/Gauls.

Franks are not that different to Anglo-Saxons, and Gauls are similar to Britons anyway.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Shakespeare
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Native British tribes, Romans, Anglo Saxons, Jutes, Normans, Vikings etc.

England actually historically has a very interesting and diverse gene pool.
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ignominius
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It's these infusions that have helped us build a unique, and it was unique culture and outlook on life. Now it's being destroyed by the government and it's lackeys
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Shakespeare
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Stoke City- Game as f**k


You do not even come across as somebody that can string a decent sentence together without having to resort to profanity, yet you expect people to listen to YOU?



...and your ancestors were not necessarily British warriors, they could have been street merchants for all you know.
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Dannyeo
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Yea your right Shakespear we come from a very diverse gene pool
and that makes Stoke city FC one of us so dont insult him,
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AgeofEnlightenment
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They didn't ship people from all over the empire, these were just regular conscripts and volunteers of the Roman army StokecityFC.

The majority of the Roman army were still Latins, Etruscans, Magna Graecians, etc...
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Shakespeare
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Dannyeo
Nov 5 2009, 09:01 PM
Yea your right Shakespear we come from a very diverse gene pool<br />and that makes Stoke city FC one of us so dont insult him,
Maybe you didnt see his posts before he edited them.

It was a tirade against everyone here calling the EDL dickheads amongst other things.
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Nov 6 2009, 10:31 AM
Dannyeo
Nov 5 2009, 09:01 PM
Yea your right Shakespear we come from a very diverse gene pool<br />and that makes Stoke city FC one of us so dont insult him,
Maybe you didnt see his posts before he edited them.

It was a tirade against everyone here calling the EDL dickheads amongst other things.
I called you a dick head, not anyone else, I support the EDL, I'm a part of the EDL so why would I slag it off. That would mean I'm slaggin myself off.. ,.......Your a lier...FACT..

...I deleted my posts because I cant be arsed with YOU, I've got time for the EDL and other patriots but your boring me and Ive got better things do than to debate with you what it is to be English, you believe what you believe and Ill believe what I believe....simples
Edited by Stoke City FC, Nov 6 2009, 05:57 PM.
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Shakespeare
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Nov 6 2009, 05:54 PM
Shakespeare
Nov 6 2009, 10:31 AM
Dannyeo
Nov 5 2009, 09:01 PM
Yea your right Shakespear we come from a very diverse gene pool<br />and that makes Stoke city FC one of us so dont insult him,
Maybe you didnt see his posts before he edited them.

It was a tirade against everyone here calling the EDL dickheads amongst other things.
I called you a dick head, not anyone else, I support the EDL, I'm a part of the EDL so why would I slag it off. That would mean I'm slaggin myself off.. ,.......Your a lier...FACT..

...I deleted my posts because I cant be arsed with YOU, I've got time for the EDL and other patriots but your boring me and Ive got better things do than to debate with you what it is to be English, you believe what you believe and Ill believe what I believe....simples
What the f**k are you talking about?

Im talking about the initial post you made

You're a lying little s**t. You said "I cant be arsed with the EDL" and then started writing about how many people here are dickheads.

Then you made a few posts after but edited them because you probably realised how stupid you sound.
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Nov 6 2009, 06:00 PM
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Nov 6 2009, 05:54 PM
Shakespeare
Nov 6 2009, 10:31 AM
Dannyeo
Nov 5 2009, 09:01 PM
Yea your right Shakespear we come from a very diverse gene pool<br />and that makes Stoke city FC one of us so dont insult him,
Maybe you didnt see his posts before he edited them.

It was a tirade against everyone here calling the EDL dickheads amongst other things.
I called you a dick head, not anyone else, I support the EDL, I'm a part of the EDL so why would I slag it off. That would mean I'm slaggin myself off.. ,.......Your a lier...FACT..

...I deleted my posts because I cant be arsed with YOU, I've got time for the EDL and other patriots but your boring me and Ive got better things do than to debate with you what it is to be English, you believe what you believe and Ill believe what I believe....simples
What the f**k are you talking about?

Im talking about the initial post you made

You're a lying little s**t. You said "I cant be arsed with the EDL" and then started writing about how many people here are dickheads.

Then you made a few posts after but edited them because you probably realised how stupid you sound.


listen mate...I apoligise for calling you a dick head, at the end of the day we are both singing from the same hyme sheet, we are on the same side and we have the same goals in mind, we shouldnt fall out with each other, the UAF scum bags would love it...so again..I apoligise for calling you a dick head, it was just that you pissed me off with your post , obviously we both misunderstood each other, but forget it ....no harm done ay? .. Stick together...United we stand, divided we fall
Edited by Stoke City FC, Nov 6 2009, 06:41 PM.
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ignominius
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Lets calm it down peoples. Slagging each other off isn't doing anyone any good. Believe it or not we're supposed to be discussing -to be of English blood-. We should get back on track with that.

I have had the good fortune to visit many cities in Europe, and travel to Africa to many African countries and the one thing I find is that where ever I go I know that being English has given me a sense of where I come from and who I am amongst the billions of souls on our planet. It might have been by an accident of birth that I was born English, but I give thanks that I was. I look back on our glorious and less that glorious history and know that whatever fate befalls us we stil rise up and achieve a level of achievment far surpassing our size as a nation and our resources.

Think, we are 7th or 8th largest economy in the world (may have slipped a bit in the wake of the recession) but that is a hell of an achievement. Our armed forces , though tiny in comparison with others is one of the best in the world (Although I respect the US armed forces - I know our guys are man for man far better than them, the French or the Germans).
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Nov 6 2009, 06:22 PM
Shakespeare
Nov 6 2009, 06:00 PM
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Nov 6 2009, 05:54 PM
Shakespeare
Nov 6 2009, 10:31 AM
Dannyeo
Nov 5 2009, 09:01 PM
Yea your right Shakespear we come from a very diverse gene pool<br />and that makes Stoke city FC one of us so dont insult him,
Maybe you didnt see his posts before he edited them.

It was a tirade against everyone here calling the EDL dickheads amongst other things.
I called you a dick head, not anyone else, I support the EDL, I'm a part of the EDL so why would I slag it off. That would mean I'm slaggin myself off.. ,.......Your a lier...FACT..

...I deleted my posts because I cant be arsed with YOU, I've got time for the EDL and other patriots but your boring me and Ive got better things do than to debate with you what it is to be English, you believe what you believe and Ill believe what I believe....simples
What the f**k are you talking about?

Im talking about the initial post you made

You're a lying little s**t. You said "I cant be arsed with the EDL" and then started writing about how many people here are dickheads.

Then you made a few posts after but edited them because you probably realised how stupid you sound.


listen mate...I apoligise for calling you a dick head, at the end of the day we are both singing from the same hyme sheet, we are on the same side and we have the same goals in mind, we shouldnt fall out with each other, the UAF scum bags would love it...so again..I apoligise for calling you a dick head, it was just that you pissed me off with your post , obviously we both misunderstood each other, but forget it ....no harm done ay? .. Stick together...United we stand, divided we fall


well said...no offense taken mate...apologies on what i said too

love you too :$
Edited by Shakespeare, Nov 6 2009, 07:37 PM.
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Nov 6 2009, 07:36 PM
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Nov 6 2009, 06:22 PM
Shakespeare
Nov 6 2009, 06:00 PM
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Nov 6 2009, 05:54 PM
Shakespeare
Nov 6 2009, 10:31 AM
Dannyeo
Nov 5 2009, 09:01 PM
Yea your right Shakespear we come from a very diverse gene pool<br />and that makes Stoke city FC one of us so dont insult him,
Maybe you didnt see his posts before he edited them.

It was a tirade against everyone here calling the EDL dickheads amongst other things.
I called you a dick head, not anyone else, I support the EDL, I'm a part of the EDL so why would I slag it off. That would mean I'm slaggin myself off.. ,.......Your a lier...FACT..

...I deleted my posts because I cant be arsed with YOU, I've got time for the EDL and other patriots but your boring me and Ive got better things do than to debate with you what it is to be English, you believe what you believe and Ill believe what I believe....simples
What the f**k are you talking about?

Im talking about the initial post you made

You're a lying little s**t. You said "I cant be arsed with the EDL" and then started writing about how many people here are dickheads.

Then you made a few posts after but edited them because you probably realised how stupid you sound.


listen mate...I apoligise for calling you a dick head, at the end of the day we are both singing from the same hyme sheet, we are on the same side and we have the same goals in mind, we shouldnt fall out with each other, the UAF scum bags would love it...so again..I apoligise for calling you a dick head, it was just that you pissed me off with your post , obviously we both misunderstood each other, but forget it ....no harm done ay? .. Stick together...United we stand, divided we fall


well said...no offense taken mate...apologies on what i said too

love you too :$
come on lads...group hug :)
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Dannyeo
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:) Yea Lads group hug
Regards Danny.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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LOL

Good to see everyone made up.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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expat
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dont forget for centeries the irish have came across the water and blended in,, i call myself a proud english man of irish decent
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Shakespeare
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expat
Nov 7 2009, 09:49 AM
dont forget for centeries the irish have came across the water and blended in,, i call myself a proud english man of irish decent
Ha who doesnt have Irish blood in them?
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Originally the Britons, Scotts, and Irish that inhabited the British isles prior to even Roman colonisation were largely the same celtic groups. The English are just the same Britons mixed with Anglo-Saxons, Jutes, and Roman blood.

So in effect, everyone here who's ancestry comes from the British isles is largely the same.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Cythraul
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Shakespeare
Nov 3 2009, 01:38 PM
Native British tribes, Romans, Anglo Saxons, Jutes, Normans, Vikings etc.

England actually historically has a very interesting and diverse gene pool.
I wouldn't say it's that diverse. For a start, most Romans stationed in Britain were themselves not Latin. The genetic impact of Romans is minimal. The Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Normans and Vikings were all Germanic tribe, thus essentially of the same blood. The Celtic tribes were and are genetically similar to the Germanics. The other element - the Paleolithic Britons, would have been present all across Europe.

Just wanted to point out that England is not any more of a 'mongrel' race than almost anywhere else in Europe. It's a common misconception. The only element we have here which was perhaps exclusive to Britain was the Basque/Iberian element.
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huscarle
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Cythraul
Nov 10 2009, 10:59 AM
Shakespeare
Nov 3 2009, 01:38 PM
Native British tribes, Romans, Anglo Saxons, Jutes, Normans, Vikings etc.

England actually historically has a very interesting and diverse gene pool.
I wouldn't say it's that diverse. For a start, most Romans stationed in Britain were themselves not Latin. The genetic impact of Romans is minimal. The Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Normans and Vikings were all Germanic tribe, thus essentially of the same blood. The Celtic tribes were and are genetically similar to the Germanics. The other element - the Paleolithic Britons, would have been present all across Europe.

Just wanted to point out that England is not any more of a 'mongrel' race than almost anywhere else in Europe. It's a common misconception. The only element we have here which was perhaps exclusive to Britain was the Basque/Iberian element.
I agree - here's an article for you Mongrol Race?

Look at the waves of humanity that have moved through places like Central Europe, Pakistan, India, China etc and yet it is only the English they insult by calling them mongrol. You have to ask yourselves why they want the English to think of themselves as being "diverse". Why do they wish to attack our sense of identity?

As far as I'm concerned English history started when the English first came to these islands around 450AD. If the English tribes of the Engles, Saxons and Jutes had not crossed over from their continental homelands then we would not be calling ourselves English and England would never have existed. We would now be speaking Welsh (or German).

It is our English Anglo-Saxon anscestors who created our culture - our language, the monarchy, our system of law, our language , our constitution, local government, our counties, the days of the week, the name of our country, our place names and many would say even our sense of humour. They came to this country and built a nation out of chaos and they gave their name to this new country. En-gland was orginally Engle-Land; the land of the Engles.

Whoever spoke about the Romans is talking rubbish. They left no lasting legacy in this country - genetically or otherwise. The origins of our language are germanic and not romantic. Our language springs from Old English which developed into Middle English and then into modern English. We do have lots of Latin words in it but this is not some throwback to the Roman invasion of Britain, it is because latin was always the language of the church. Go on You Tube and type in "The Lords Prayer in Old English". See how many Roman words you can pick out (none) or how many French words (none) - but you will be able to make out alot of English words in it. Apologies if none of the above makes sense, rushing as usual and haven't got time to read through it

“Never forget, our country was built by men of physical strength, mental fortitude and unbreakable spirit. It was forged in the heat of battle and nurtured in the inherent libertarian instinct of those very first freeborn Englishmen These people were our ancestors, our kinsmen and they are a part of each and every one of us. Their story is our story.”

www.wearetheenglish.com
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Shakespeare
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I never said we was a "mongrel race", I said that we historically have a diverse gene pool. Regardless of whether the North West European tribes were genetically similar or not, it's still a diverse gene pool we have from people and tribes across from

Nobody really knows for sure how much the Roman's, anglo saxons or other tribes effected us.

One of the most overlooked facts is that we are all still very closely related to the original Britons who existed before the first Roman invasion. Read up about "Cheddar man". It was a modern human skeleton found in Wales that dates back 7000 years ago next to two animal skeletons. It is the earliest modern man skeleton EVER found. It was originally thought that the original Britons were middle eastern and chased over to Britain from France but "Cheddar man" provides evidential proof that hunter-gatherer Britons existed 7000 years ago.

They also did a genetics test with 3 people. One of them was a school teacher and the other was 2 school children. It came back that the 3 of them were all related to the "cheddar man".

Interesting stuff.
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made in England
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Shakespeare
Nov 12 2009, 12:43 PM


They also did a genetics test with 3 people. One of them was a school teacher and the other was 2 school children. It came back that the 3 of them were all related to the "cheddar man".

Tracing their ancestors back 7000 years is amazing but to say they are still in the same location is absolutely incredible.
No body can ever tell those people they dont belong here
I suppose the populations of many English/British villages, hamlets etc could be directly descended to the original Britains if the technology was made available to them.
Yeah your right shakey interesting stuff mate
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

Werian se Angelcynn
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billymodo
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Find a book called "Blood of the Isles" which proves that the vast majority of 'British' descended peoples can be genetically traced back to the fourteenth century.
It puts to bed the MYTH that our English hating pro euro MP's like to constantly propagate, that the English are a mongrel breed.
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Land of my Fathes
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huscarle
Nov 10 2009, 10:59 PM
As far as I'm concerned English history started when the English first came to these islands around 450AD. If the English tribes of the Engles, Saxons and Jutes had not crossed over from their continental homelands then we would not be calling ourselves English and England would never have existed. We would now be speaking Welsh (or German).
Modern DNA have more or less demolished that version. None of the recent invaders contributed much. Not the Romans, not the Vikings, not the Danes and not even the Angles or Saxons! None of them individually add more than 5%.

In fact, 75% of your DNA has been here since 6,250 BC, deep pre-history.

To Ignomius, part of what you've said is true, the Celtic language and roots probably did come from Spain and the English from Germany. But those migrations are far older than we thought, 10,000 years plus. The English language was almost certainly here when the Romans came. While the cultural/language differences between short swarthy mountain dwellers and handsome low-landers has survived, the DNA difference is really quite small. (Irish and English slightly closer than Welsh and English, as you'd guess from language survival and explain by sea-travel).

Can you take that all in? If not, just remember "75% of my Britishness pre-dates Stonehenge"!

(Billymodo - I see you've added something interesting -tell us more)
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Land of my Fathes
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Nov 16 2009, 01:00 PM
Find a book called "Blood of the Isles" which proves that the vast majority of 'British' descended peoples can be genetically traced back to the fourteenth century. It puts to bed the MYTH that our English hating pro euro MP's like to constantly propagate, that the English are a mongrel breed.
I've applied my "Amazon Test" to this book by Sykes, checking the reviews of the people who didn't like it first.

Then I did the same test on one of the books mentioned in one of the reviews of the Sykes book - see these 3 star reviews. Notice how some people don't like his writing but none doubt the science The Origins of the British: A Genetic Detective Story by Stephen Oppenheimer (Paperback - 12 April 2007) £7.11

Actually, some readers of Oppenheimer reckon that the books of Francis Pryor are even better again. But my brain is jellified at this point from trying too hard! Oppenheimer's version more or less matches what I just posted to Nemesis above.
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made in England
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Germanic and Norse tribes were coming to Britain way before the Empire of Rome existed, the opportunities would have been to great to miss for such seafaring nations.
I dont agree that the Angles,Saxons and Vikings contributed no more than 5% to Britains culture, you only have to take a look at the English language for a start compared to the celtic dialects spoken in whats now Wales, Scotland even in Cornwall.
There must have been more than enough of the Germanic tribes to make such a difference in language and to eventually and ultimately create their own country Angleland.
Im from an area of what was once known as Mercia or should i say boundary folk , the language still spoken in most of the small villages near me could only be assimilated by an outsider as Germanic
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

Werian se Angelcynn
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watforddan
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made in England
Oct 30 2009, 02:13 PM
AgeofEnlightenment
Oct 30 2009, 01:55 PM
I like that people express interest in their history, but the Anglo-Saxons and Jutes is just one part.

What about the Romans? One of the greatest civilisations in history that had established colonies in England.
Yes i agree the Romans were one of the greatest civilizations in history and formed a large part of British history but not English.
though this argument is not conclusiive, i need to point out that England (land of the angles) did not come about until well after the Saxon, Jute and angle settlements that largely took place after the Romans had departed. The indigenous people were the anceint Brtions of celtic stock that inhabited most of Low land Britain and the picts in the more northerly parts of Scotland.
When the Saxons and Co did arrive en masse they either absorbed the native people by inter marrying and or pushed resisters to the corners of the country, eg Wales and Cornwall. The old Enlish / German name for these Britons was Welas into which Welsh was perverted into. It described the people as opposed to a country as such, as ancient maps identifying demagraphic peoples refer to Cumbriam Welsh, Strathclyde Welsh etc.
Then of course you had the Northern invasions, the Vikings. The regular raiding of Welsh coast lines by Irish 'armies' all adding to the melting pot.
As much as our Scottish friends will not like this, Saxons settled en masse in lowland scotland, just as Vikings did North of England and even as far out as Dublin . Even the Normans though French speaking were direct descendants from Vikings (Normans = Norseman).
When wars like Culloden and such were fought it would often be led uo by an English nobleman (of Norman descent) eg Earl of Shrewsbury fighting his Scottish Normnan cousin (Robert the Bruce = Robert De Bruse)
So goes to show despite some intense rivelry at international soccer amd Rugby games we are all a bit of a mish mash, and a bloody fine one at that.
British by Birth, English by the grace of God
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made in England
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Yes watforddan im aware that the term land of the Angles didnt come about till later on in history, for years the dominant Germanic tribes the Angles and Saxons were battling with each other for supremacy.
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

Werian se Angelcynn
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watforddan
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Nov 18 2009, 01:23 PM
Yes watforddan im aware that the term land of the Angles didnt come about till later on in history, for years the dominant Germanic tribes the Angles and Saxons were battling with each other for supremacy.
It is actually very heartening to see so many people who have an understanding of our History, as the schools do not these days.
There are several interpretations of how the Anglo Saxons settled into England, and who knows which one is closet to the truth.
I really think it is well worth preserving our culture that has been here for well over a thousand years at the very least.
All the best Made in England.
British by Birth, English by the grace of God
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Shakespeare
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Honestly...more white english kids (or anybody with white english ancestry) really need to look this information up. It isn't taught in schools at all. I heard that Britain was invaded by Romans and that was about it in terms of my ancestral knowledge.

I also think it's good for english kids self esteem if they learn of the rich history their country has in its formation alone...never mind what we went on to achieve!
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watforddan
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Shakespeare
Nov 19 2009, 04:54 PM
Honestly...more white english kids (or anybody with white english ancestry) really need to look this information up. It isn't taught in schools at all. I heard that Britain was invaded by Romans and that was about it in terms of my ancestral knowledge.

I also think it's good for english kids self esteem if they learn of the rich history their country has in its formation alone...never mind what we went on to achieve!
Spot on.
I think one idiot of an MP said that the English should not celegrate their vainglorious past, Arsehole.
It is not Johnny Foriegner that is killing our culture it is our apologist ruling classes.
British by Birth, English by the grace of God
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