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Child sex in islam....shocking
Topic Started: Oct 29 2009, 02:23 PM (941 Views)
seppuku
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With this in mind, why wouldn’t you share the view that ‘extreme’ and ‘moderate’ forms of Islam are a fallacy?


Whilst it may be supported by the Koran, I know that there are a lot of Muslims who preach that Islam is peaceful and tolerant.

On this Islamic website a Sheikh was asked about Islamic tolerance - he goes quite in depth - if you want to read the whole thing - go here

But here are a few snippets:
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Islam emphasizes the establishment of equality and justice, both of these values cannot be established without some degree of tolerance. Islam recognized from the very beginning the principle of freedom of belief or freedom of religion. It said very clearly that it is not allowed to have any coercion in the matters of faith and belief. The Qur'an says, (There is no compulsion in religion) (Al-Baqarah 2:256).

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One can also cite Allah's words: (Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if you turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and you for that placed on you. If you obey him, you shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message)) (An-Nur 24:54).

All these verses give note that Muslims do not coerce people; they must present the message to them in the most cogent and clear way, invite them to the truth and do their best in presenting and conveying the message of God to humanity, but it is up to people to accept or not to accept. Allah says, (And say, 'The truth is from your Lord, so whosoever wants let him believe and whosoever wants let him deny’) (An-Nahl 16:29).


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Another question is raised about Jihad. Some people say, "Is it not the duty of Muslims to make Jihad?" But the purpose of Jihad is not to convert people to Islam. Allah says, (No compulsion in religion) (Al-Baqarah 2:256). The real purpose of Jihad is to remove injustice and aggression. Muslims are allowed to keep good relations with non-Muslims. Allah says, (Allah does not forbid you that you show kindness and deal justly with those who did not fight you in your religion and did not drive you out from your homes…) (Al-Mumtahinah 60:8).

Islam teaches that fighting is only against those who fight. Allah says, (Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors) (Al-Baqarah 2:190).


If this is what some Islamic groups are teaching, then I'd still argue a moderate form of Islam - if you dislike the term 'moderate' then perhaps 'peaceful' or 'tolerant' would be more suitable.

Essentially what the article says is that, "peace is at the center of Islam, Muslims ought to spread the message, but not coerce people into belief - it is their freedom to choose not to be Muslim and it is fine to live alongside non-believers and tolerate their existence, violence is only for those who act violently upon you". You might pull out several contradicting quotes from the Koran, it doesn't change the fact that peaceful Islam is taught. You might argue that because extreme Muslims follow the screwed up teachings that they're the true Muslims, but arguably - they ignore any peaceful teachings in doing so, would that not compromise any 'true' Muslim label? As for the spreading of religion, that is essentially the goal of most religions, to convert people - after all, in being religious they believe that non-believers go to some horrible dark place when they die. It is even the goal of some atheists, because they believe giving your life in dedication to being they deem imaginary is a waste and that you're only finite and that it is better to enjoy and appreciate life, than to lay it down in worship.

The sects of liberal Muslims from what I understand tend to think in the way highlighted above and that it is conservative sects that believe contrary, as Mohammad himself was violent. So, yes, I argue that there exists sects of tolerance in Islam.
Edited by seppuku, Nov 5 2009, 03:29 AM.
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bored76
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in romeo and juliet, juliet wasn't 18 she was 13! Middle east is very backwards of child sex a man can have many underage wives
too many and the extremists will order your death like the old guy with 112 wives! had to give them up
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Flower Power
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Hi seppuku, thanks for your reply.

The link you provided was written by Muzammil Siddiqi of the Islamic Society of Orange County. http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503614805&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaCounselorE%2FFatwaCounselorE

Here are some of Siddiqi’s quotes:

Kenneth Timmerman has noted that “during an anti-Israel rally outside the White House on Oct. 28, 2000, Siddiqi openly threatened the United States with violence if it continued its support of Israel. ‘America has to learn...if you remain on the side of injustice, the wrath of God will come. Please, all Americans. Do you remember that?...If you continue doing injustice, and tolerate injustice, the wrath of God will come.’” Timmerman adds, “Siddiqi also has called for a wider application of Shari'a law in the United States, and in a 1995 speech praised suicide bombers. ‘Those who die on the part of justice are alive, and their place is with the Lord, and they receive the highest position, because this is the highest honor,’ he was quoted as saying by the Kansas City Star on Jan. 28, 1995.” [3]
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=12821

Siddiqi served as president of ISNA (The Islamic Society of North America) from 1996 to 2000.

ISNA's website says its mission is to "advance the cause of Islam and Muslims in North America." It lists training imams as its No. 1 goal.

But critics say ISNA is an extremist group disguised as a moderate group.

ISNA "enforces Wahhabi theological writ in the country's 1,200 officially recognized mosques," said terror expert Stephen Schwartz, author of "The Two Faces of Islam: Saudi Fundamentalism and Its Role in Terrorism." Wahhabism, a puritanical, anti-Western strain of Islam, is the official religion of the Saudi government. It's also practiced by Osama bin Laden.

Members of ISNA's board include controversial New York imam Siraj Wahaj, named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal case last decade against terrorist Omar Abdel Rahman, a.k.a. the Blind Sheikh.

Siddiqi and Wahaj spoke at the Islamic Circle of North America's 2001 convention in Cleveland together with Saudi Shaikh Abdur Rahman al-Sudais, senior imam at the Grand Mosque in Mecca, who has been quoted vilifying Jews as the "scum of humanity" and "the grandsons of monkeys and pigs." The three were scheduled to speak again in December at an Islamic conference in Kissimmee, Fla.

Siddiqi, who writes a weekly column for a Pakistani publication, has spoken at pro-Hezbollah and pro-Hamas rallies, and has supported an Islamic state in the U.S., while praising martyrdom for the Islamic cause, according to the SITE Institute, an anti-terror watchdog group.

On Oct. 28, 2000, Siddiqi issued a stern warning to America during an anti-Israel rally across from the White House. He and other Islamic leaders had organized the demonstration to protest America's pro-Israel policy and to support what they called just resistance to Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory.

"America has to learn," Siddiqi was quoted as saying, "if you remain on the side of injustice, the wrath of God will come. Please, all Americans. Do you remember that?"

Then he stressed: "If you continue doing injustice, and tolerate injustice, the wrath of God will come."

Abdurahman Alamoudi, the former American Muslim Council president arrested last year on terrorism-related charges, appeared with Siddiqi at the 2000 protest rally. And he proclaimed: "Hear that, Bill Clinton! We are all supporters of Hamas. I wish to add that I am also a supporter of Hezbollah."
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/254

Unfortunately, Muzammil Siddiqi isn’t unlike a multitude of other ‘extremist’ Muslims, and I leave you with a quote from one of Siddiqi’s co-religious counterparts.

So how will Islam dominate the world? Most likely by force! If the people do not embrace Islam and implement the Sharee’ah on their own accord, it becomes an obligation upon the Muslims to fight and implement Islam. In countries such as Britain and America, their people have clearly rejected to embrace Islam and will never choose to live by the Sharee’ah.

Therefore, the only two ways in which these countries can become under the domain of Islam is by the last two options, a group of Muslims rise and overthrow the government, or an Islamic state is established elsewhere and comes to conquer these nations.
http://duaat.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/how-islam-will-dominate-the-world/
Those who will not reason are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves.
Lord Byron (1788-1824)
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seppuku
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Well it seems the man contradicts himself - his answer I linked seemed like a reasonable and peaceful answer, yet it would see the man's a hypocrite - he was preaching liberal Islamic views, yet by your quotes, he clearly doesn't hold them.

I'll probably dig out some sources to get a better example of what teachers I'm referring to. Though it's probably clear already - there are those that believe what I quoted, even though the man I quoted doesn't believe it himself. ;) The sects of Islam from what I understand are able to be split between liberal and conservative - or at least websites I've looked at discussing the sects of Islam use those terms - extremists tend to fall under conservative Muslims, whilst liberal are much more tolerant.

I'll have to dig up a new link later as I've got a lecture to head off to.
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Paul81272
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As I have said before The Quran is a hypocritical religious book as they all are, it’s all down to interpretation of the text, whether I suppose you want to be peace loving citizen that wants to get on with life or a kiddie fiddling suicide bomber its the choice of the individual., I think it’s clear enough that the Quran calls Islamic followers to either convert or kill the infidels repeatedly throughout its text but here and there it calls for compassion towards non believers, a bit like the rants of a deluded drunk, says one thing then says another forgetting the first thing!! So I guess I am saying the child molesting Prophet Mohammed was a delusional drunk.
Islam is not a religion it’s a f**king cult, I am still waiting for David Koresh to appear!!
This is my opinion and does not reflect the opinion of the EDL.
The EDL is ONLY opposed to Islamic Extremism
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seppuku
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I think that's a fair summary Paul. And because of it, there are different groups believe in things that contradict those of another group reading the same scripture. It becomes difficult to categorize all interpretations other than by using the name of the religion and of course it becomes difficult to say, "Islam is a violent and intolerant religion" or "Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion", because groups from either side contradict those statements.

I suppose the deluded drunk thing is kind of Ironic...maybe that was the intention - Maybe Mohammed was sat down with a couple of scribes and he stood there recited what he thought Allah spoke to him and one of the scribes thought it sensible to add, "drinking alcohol is bad", followed by the other scribe saying, "oh, should we add that Mohammed was intoxicated and that's why alcohol is evil - it makes you spurt a load of nonsense?" To which the scribe would have replied, "nah I'm sure people will find it pretty obvious - I mean a magic man in the sky? As if anybody's as deluded as those Christians to believe that."
Edited by seppuku, Nov 5 2009, 01:50 PM.
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Paul81272
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I have had a few pretty blinding nights out when I thought the prophets were speaking to me but as it turned out it was just my arse twitching, I think Mohammed heard the same
Islam is not a religion it’s a f**king cult, I am still waiting for David Koresh to appear!!
This is my opinion and does not reflect the opinion of the EDL.
The EDL is ONLY opposed to Islamic Extremism
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nasty smelly animals
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Feliz Navidad (Gold) created by Sarah & Delirium of the ZNR