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Child sex in islam....shocking
Topic Started: Oct 29 2009, 02:23 PM (942 Views)
Irishcomrad
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzfUT38LVxU
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bk4theuk
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When you involve children in a religion so deep and evil, it is beyond my comprehension that anyone could put a child through this demonic way of life. My respect goes to the woman speaking she is a very brave person.
How the other half live! or should that be how the other half want us to live!
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Irishcomrad
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They truly are a sick race of people who allow this norm to perpetuate through their lives as nonchalantly as it does
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Words cant express how sick it is. They try it over here all the time. Its covered up though by the media
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jenkins789
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very disturbing. Can Poloska please comment on this video and give some thoughts as to what are the motives of the abusers and why do islamic authorities not crack down on this type of behaviour?
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Leeks
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The worrying thing is he didn't bat an eye lid at the child abuse accusations or even try to argue against the claims,its like its the norm and tottaly acceptable.
lord admiral horatio nelson

"England expects that every man will do his duty".

(Message to his men before the Battle of Trafalgar)

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Irishcomrad
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Child sex is the norm, they practice this behaviour as we would practice gardening. That is why they are so crazy when we mention thier religion, what they are really saying is "please dont look at what we do" that is why they want to keep us down and control us
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Jenkins789 : "why do islamic authorities not crack down on this type of behaviour?"

Because a man having sex with little girls is considered positive by islamic law as long as the man and the little girl are married. And a man can marry 4 women - so, if he wants, 4 little girls.

Their prophete was a child molestor (one of his "wife" was 9 yrs old when he had sex with her - Aicha)
As he's the so called perfect model for all humain kind, it's not surprising radical Muslims are ok with pedophiliae...

Have u ever seen the "reward" of Moudjahidin working for Palestinian HAMAS ?
They marry little girls. They marry "virgins" to "good soldiers of Allah".

Here is a video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCRj4ZPnYdk&feature=related

That's disgusting...
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Irishcomrad
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Their whole Islamic system is archaic, the west hav developed so much for the better of humanity, now the Islamacists are trying to shut us down because our humanity goes against their archaic evil traditions
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AgeofEnlightenment
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I know this is a very disturbing issue, but keep the ranting down will you lads?
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Irishcomrad
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AgeofEnlightenment
Oct 30 2009, 11:58 AM
I know this is a very disturbing issue, but keep the ranting down will you lads?
Ranting, showing our disgust with regards to their evil practice of islamic paedophilia is not ranting, as mentioned we are showing our disgust
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shiva
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AgeofEnlightenment
Oct 30 2009, 11:58 AM
I know this is a very disturbing issue, but keep the ranting down will you lads?
" I know this is a very disturbing issue,"

WTF

It is fooking disgusting

Why should we keep the ranting down when it concerns pedophilia that is ordained in islamic scriptures.

Hundreds of thousands maybe millions of children are being raped each year in the islamic world

Pedophilia is beyond disgusting, it is pure evil, and any cult that condones it should be wiped of the face of this planet.

This is just one issue, what about some rants about FGM also, anther vile practice that moslem are importing to our fair isle




Edited by shiva, Oct 30 2009, 03:06 PM.
To oppose islam is not racism, it is a sign of a healthy mind
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fabulocious
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muslims admit themselves:

Re: Why I hate Saudi Arabia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baghdadi
15 Saudi men raped a Bengali boy who was 15.

A'udubillah!

What's with Gulf Arabs and sodomy?? Similar things happen in the UAE.

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f38/why-i-hate-saudi-arabia-26201/
Islam, terrorizing the world since 622 c.e.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Irishcomrad
Oct 29 2009, 10:40 PM
They truly are a sick race of people who allow this norm to perpetuate through their lives as nonchalantly as it does
Maybe you might understand now why I issued a warning, since he is making remarks based on race which are prejudicial.

Nothing to do with ranting about pedophillia. Cheers for the quote mining though shiva; you're always there to pounce on any and every comment I make :D
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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seppuku
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There are many arguments on this one. It is difficult to brush Islam with one stroke. I can see where in Islamic scripture you might find teachings to support deriving pleasure from a child in a sexual way - that is because on multiple accounts in certain Hadiths, it is noted that Mohammad married a child, Aisha, if memory serves me, she was 9 years old.

This of course is sick and wrong, but is it generally accepted that child sex is okay in Islam? Well, it'd be like saying murdering people of a different religion or no religion is generally accepted in Christianity because there are several teachings instructing believers to do it. (You can even ask me to back that up with a source). If this was true, then I'm screwed as an atheist and would probably already be dead, as around 2 billion Christians populate this world.

I have brought the criticism that, "Mohammed is a paedophile" to a couple of Muslims before, rather than arguing a 'for' argument, they deny it and bring up a couple of Hadiths that offer a different age for Aisha.

However, alternative arguments are:

-It was socially acceptable around the time and even though Mohammed was a prophet, it didn't mean he was perfect. The important thing was not what he did, but what he preached.

-Marriage doesn't suggest sex. Their marriage might have meant something entirely different, which might still be looked down upon in a Western society, but it brought no harm to the child.

-Aisha wasn't actually 9, she was older.

-Hadiths are irrelevant - the Qu'ran should be where it's at.

Of course, it means that there are those who interpret the Hadiths as meaning, "Mohammed married a kid, so I should be able to have sex with them", but as far as I understand, this is considered bad by Muslims too and people who make such interpretations would be those who are "interpreting them wrong" in the eyes of any Muslim who doesn't like paedophilia, which I imagine to be a majority...like again, how many Christians are happy to go around murdering homosexuals, atheists, people of other religions, carry and act upon witch superstitions and burning priest's daughters who like to masturbate? All of which are in the bible.
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fabulocious
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seppuku you ae a muslim!
bottom line is that this is a cult no?
Islam, terrorizing the world since 622 c.e.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Seppuku:

Most haddiths place Aisha between 6-10 years old, the general claim being that she was married at age 6, and accepted into Mohammad's house at age 9. Now while it is true that child marriage did occur in the ancient world within all cultures, and that we can't judge it for it's time; well we can if we say ALL forms of child marriage are wrong.

Second point with that regard is that most people don't judge it for it's time anyway, they judge it from a modern moral perspective because we don't want that nonsense in modern secular societies. Child marriage is wrong no matter which way you cut it, and it's still a practice common in the islamic world because Mohammad did it in the 7th century, and muslims regard prophets like Mohammad to be examples of morality.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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seppuku
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Correction, atheist. ;)

Is it a cult? No, it is a religion. Cult is more along the lines of scientology. Though there are perhaps sects of Islam that reflect cultish behaviour. But there's too many sects and interpretations of Islam for you to brush them out in one stroke.

As a comparison - Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian, but they are also a cult (due to their cultist practices), but it doesn't make Christianity itself a cult.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Nov 1 2009, 05:32 AM
Correction, atheist. ;)

Is it a cult? No, it is a religion. Cult is more along the lines of scientology. Though there are perhaps sects of Islam that reflect cultish behaviour. But there's too many sects and interpretations of Islam for you to brush them out in one stroke.

As a comparison - Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian, but they are also a cult (due to their cultist practices), but it doesn't make Christianity itself a cult.
The difference between a cult and religion is popularity.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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seppuku
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Second point with that regard is that most people don't judge it for it's time anyway, they judge it from a modern moral perspective because we don't want that nonsense in modern secular societies. Child marriage is wrong no matter which way you cut it, and it's still a practice common in the islamic world because Mohammad did it in the 7th century, and muslims regard prophets like Mohammad to be examples of morality.


I accept this, child marriage is wrong, and for Muslims who do practice it, it is definitely wrong. But I felt a brush was being used in this topic to wipe Islam in one stroke. Not all sects accept the idea that Mohammed was a paedophile, nor do they accept paedophilia. The problem still exists and it shouldn't be ignored - I would probably encourage Muslims who dislike it to try and eradicate it from any of their communities where it exists (not with violence of course). Perhaps like that woman on the clip in the OP voicing on television that it is wrong.

I don't think we can condemn Islam for what mohammed did when it was socially acceptable, but condemn those who still marry children or teach that it is okay to do so.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Well it's just part of islam, but I'm only interested in condemning muslims who think it's ok to marry a kid because Mohammad did so.

I know there are varying sects that disagree on this, but I'm not interested in differing opinions but the writings of some of the oldest muslims who made the hadith/quranic passages that we see today. Anyone can look at a passage and interpret it however they like, but when you look at the historical contexts of islam; you find the original interpretations and causes they were used for are far from peaceful.
Edited by AgeofEnlightenment, Nov 1 2009, 05:45 AM.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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seppuku
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Quote:
 
The difference between a cult and religion is popularity.


I'd argue not.

I defined Jehovah's Witnesses as being a part of a cult. Cult I would argue is defined by their practices.

A dictionary definition of cult:
Quote:
 
a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader



I define Jehovah's witnesses as a cult, for example they teach that blood transfusions are an abomination - this is unorthodox because it saves lives and their claims are dangerous. But also, it applies to scientology because they teach that mental illnesses do not exist, which is also dangerous.

I'd say in Islam, cult would only apply to certain sects. Again, Jehovah's witness belong to a sect of Christianity, but do not reflect the views of Christianity as a whole.
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seppuku
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Well it's just part of islam, but I'm only interested in condemning muslims who think it's ok to marry a kid because Mohammad did so.

I know there are varying sects that disagree on this, but I'm not interested in differing opinions but the writings of some of the oldest muslims who made the hadith/quranic passages that we see today. Anyone can look at a passage and interpret it however they like, but when you look at the historical contexts of islam; you find the original interpretations and causes they were used for are far from peaceful.


It's difficult to know how a religious scripture was meant to be interpreted in the first place - but I suppose given Islam's youth, it makes it an easier candidate, but sadly I do not know enough of the birth of Islam to make comment. But I say, yeah, definitely, go ahead and condemn those who think it is okay to marry kids, just as we would to anybody who is non-Muslim, yet is the same - after all it's fair that way. I was just making sure that nothing was over-generalized.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Nov 1 2009, 05:48 AM
Quote:
 
The difference between a cult and religion is popularity.


I'd argue not.

I defined Jehovah's Witnesses as being a part of a cult. Cult I would argue is defined by their practices.

A dictionary definition of cult:
Quote:
 
a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader



I define Jehovah's witnesses as a cult, for example they teach that blood transfusions are an abomination - this is unorthodox because it saves lives and their claims are dangerous. But also, it applies to scientology because they teach that mental illnesses do not exist, which is also dangerous.

I'd say in Islam, cult would only apply to certain sects. Again, Jehovah's witness belong to a sect of Christianity, but do not reflect the views of Christianity as a whole.
Note the words 'considered to be false' and 'conventional society.'

The definition of religion is thus follows:

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

Notice the difference in definitions? The difference being what is conventionally seen as true and false. In other words; a religion is what is considered popularly true, where as a cult is not.

One great example I'd like to use is the Cult of Isis, Mithras, Bacchus, and other gods in the ancient Roman world. Although they weren't considered popular gods, they earned cult status because some of the Roman soldiers were bringing back these gods and some of the common held beliefs of other empires they conquered. Isis was a cult in Rome, but was part of the religion in Egypt, and Mithras likewise was a part of the zoroastrian religion in Persia.

Bacchus was once an accepted god, but was banned because he represented decadence, partying, drinking, etc... yet he went underground and became a cult figure.

It's the same with today; many christians here might argue that islam is a cult. Yet in North Africa, the Middle-East, and parts of South-East Asia it's the norm there.

Whether a sect of a religion is a cult or not is debatable, and it also depends on perspective. If you judge something to be a cult because it's morally wrong or ridiculous, then technically every religion becomes a cult under this definition.
Edited by AgeofEnlightenment, Nov 1 2009, 07:11 AM.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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AgeofEnlightenment
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seppuku
Nov 1 2009, 05:55 AM
Quote:
 
Well it's just part of islam, but I'm only interested in condemning muslims who think it's ok to marry a kid because Mohammad did so.

I know there are varying sects that disagree on this, but I'm not interested in differing opinions but the writings of some of the oldest muslims who made the hadith/quranic passages that we see today. Anyone can look at a passage and interpret it however they like, but when you look at the historical contexts of islam; you find the original interpretations and causes they were used for are far from peaceful.


It's difficult to know how a religious scripture was meant to be interpreted in the first place - but I suppose given Islam's youth, it makes it an easier candidate, but sadly I do not know enough of the birth of Islam to make comment. But I say, yeah, definitely, go ahead and condemn those who think it is okay to marry kids, just as we would to anybody who is non-Muslim, yet is the same - after all it's fair that way. I was just making sure that nothing was over-generalized.
Nah, nothing over-generalistic here. The religion of islam has positives and negatives like any other, some members here might be indifferent towards islam but that's their bias, not mine.

With some religions it's true that it's hard to understand what the person who made <insert religious text> was trying to say, but islam did have early scholars/historians that for centuries pointed out many quranic verses as justifying killing non-believers, maltreatment of women, killing of homosexuals, etc...

So if you look up some of the earliest islamic scholars/historians, you will see this as well.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Fordman
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Sick Sick f**kers make my blood boil.
This is why I am so vocal about the evil of the isamofacist nutcases that want to rule the world.
Before 9/11 I didn't get much of an ear here in the states but now I get more credibility.
It's amazing to me that more people don't realize what we are dealing with and that's why I think this movement is so important.
We are not the extremists they are, and we are trying to save our way of life from being taken away.
We are getting the word out to those that want to stick their head in the sand and trying to overcome their complacency.
I have been fighting the fascist/racist argument for longer than I want to remember and you guys have given me a new motivation to keep fighting the good fight.
I may be physically in the US but I am an Englishman till the day I die.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Well Fordman, I live on the other side of the planet, yet you can still show support on the forums :)
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Fordman
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I appreciate that . I want to support this group anyway I can.
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It's clear that every people from Western countries proud of their civilisation support each others, no matter where we're from - USA, UK, France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, etc etc etc...

Union is our strength.
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Fordman
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This is true, but we are not organized and unfortunately due to the threat on our way of life we need to get organized and rise up against the people that want to control us.
Ironically our weakness is our love of freedom and individuality.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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I wouldn't call that a weakness, I'd call that a strength.

Few things would create higher moral in a group of people than knowing that their own freedoms are under threat.

*patriotic moment*
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Irishcomrad
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Nov 1 2009, 05:32 AM
Correction, atheist. ;)

Is it a cult? No, it is a religion. Cult is more along the lines of scientology. Though there are perhaps sects of Islam that reflect cultish behaviour. But there's too many sects and interpretations of Islam for you to brush them out in one stroke.

As a comparison - Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian, but they are also a cult (due to their cultist practices), but it doesn't make Christianity itself a cult.
Wrong sepekku, it is a heinious death cult
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Irishcomrad
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Nov 1 2009, 05:48 AM
Quote:
 
The difference between a cult and religion is popularity.


I'd argue not.

I defined Jehovah's Witnesses as being a part of a cult. Cult I would argue is defined by their practices.

A dictionary definition of cult:
Quote:
 
a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader



I define Jehovah's witnesses as a cult, for example they teach that blood transfusions are an abomination - this is unorthodox because it saves lives and their claims are dangerous. But also, it applies to scientology because they teach that mental illnesses do not exist, which is also dangerous.

I'd say in Islam, cult would only apply to certain sects. Again, Jehovah's witness belong to a sect of Christianity, but do not reflect the views of Christianity as a whole.
whatever jehovas witness are, good or bad, they do not issue fatwas, marry children, beat their women or blow up planes, trains and busses, the cult is evil because the quoran entices sick minds to carry out evil
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Islam is an Anti-Religion http://kwelos.tripod.com/threepoisons.htm
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seppuku
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In terms of teachings, the Bible and Qu'ran are no different.

With 2 billion Christians and 1.5 billion Muslims, how many of them listen to the darker teachings in their holy book? How many of them view them relevant in day to day life?

Religious fundamentalism = bad. But don't confuse the fundamentalists with regular followers. Why say Islam is evil and throw peaceful Muslims who do not beat their wives, marry children or blow up planes under the same umbrella?
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Irishcomrad
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Nov 1 2009, 10:14 AM
In terms of teachings, the Bible and Qu'ran are no different.

With 2 billion Christians and 1.5 billion Muslims, how many of them listen to the darker teachings in their holy book? How many of them view them relevant in day to day life?

Religious fundamentalism = bad. But don't confuse the fundamentalists with regular followers. Why say Islam is evil and throw peaceful Muslims who do not beat their wives, marry children or blow up planes under the same umbrella?
because they do not come out and condemn the extemists in their midsts and the fact that 25% of muslims believe terror attacks on innocents are justifiable. They come out with their sensitive egos and scream blue murder for danish cartoons but nothing for the USA 7/7 or the attacks in the uk.
The reason for this is because the Quran teaches their followers to kill the kuffar wherever they find them.
Islam is a hatefilled religious intollerant death cult because they allow no churches in mecca and only muslims are allowed to go there becaue they are sick and intolerable of all other religions simply because they do not believe they have a right to exist, look what your brothers did to those ancient bhuddas in Afghanistan, how many of you came out on to the streets to condmen? none because you are a backward race of paedophiles and haters
Edited by Irishcomrad, Nov 1 2009, 03:30 PM.
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Irishcomrad
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seppuku
Nov 1 2009, 10:14 AM
In terms of teachings, the Bible and Qu'ran are no different.

With 2 billion Christians and 1.5 billion Muslims, how many of them listen to the darker teachings in their holy book? How many of them view them relevant in day to day life?

Religious fundamentalism = bad. But don't confuse the fundamentalists with regular followers. Why say Islam is evil and throw peaceful Muslims who do not beat their wives, marry children or blow up planes under the same umbrella?
Also where in the world do christians come out to the street and condone murder of muslims or any other religion? where in the world?
where in the world do christians put fatwas on peoples heads?
where in the world do christians marry little girls as was the mass hammas wedding that took place recently.
Muslims are backward in mind, spirit and heart. The have no ability to think for themselves they are controlled by evil masterminds, but by their very nature they will fall, if they do kick off world war 3 then it is them and their ilk who will lose the battle because they live and breath evil, no dought about that
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seppuku
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Also where in the world do christians come out to the street and condone murder of muslims or any other religion?


Christian murders non-believers in Colorado
Christians burn Witches in Nigeria [Warning this video is very disturbing]
[Article Link to the above ]
Wikipedia page on Christian Terrorism
Christian Murders 8 Hindus
Christian Terrorists Kill 44, wound 118 in India
Failed Car Bombing in Iowa (not to do with non believers, but to do with abortion)


Teachings that require you to murder non-believers and followers of other religions:
Quote:
 
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death
Deuteronomy 17:12

Quote:
 
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
2 Chronicles 15:12-13

Quote:
 
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.
Zechariah 13:3

Quote:
 
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.
Deuteronomy 13:7

[there's more than that]

Teachings for killing witches:

Quote:
 
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Exodus 22:18

Quote:
 
When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God shall give thee, beware lest thou have a mind to imitate the abominations of those nations. 10 Neither let there be found among you any one that shall expiate his son or daughter, making them to pass through the fire: or that consulteth soothsayers, or observeth dreams and omens, neither let there be any wizard, 11 Nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead. 12 For the Lord abhorreth all these things, and for these abominations he will destroy them at thy coming.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12


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Muslims are backward in mind, spirit and heart. The have no ability to think for themselves they are controlled by evil masterminds, but by their very nature they will fall, if they do kick off world war 3 then it is them and their ilk who will lose the battle because they live and breath evil, no dought about that



That's just an overgeneralization. Yes, this is true for Militant Islam, but not Islam as a whole - there is a difference. Just as there's a difference between Militant Christianity and standard Christianity. Your regular Christians, like your regular Muslims mean no harm, despite the evil loaded in their holy books and the wrongs committed by their terrorist/extremist/militant brothers.
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As for me, I don't know what to think about Muslims...

I lived 8 years in Morocco - 99% of Muslims there who are "moderate".
I was in a french school when there was 9/11.
The day after, the students refused to go to class for one of two hours and there was a demonstration inside the school to support the terrorists attempts.
All these students who demonstrated went in Europe and USA afterwards, to get their degrees in universities.

As for the Danish cartoons, Morocco condemned them too...



I know there are Muslims who just want to live peacefully with the others and who are radically opposed to fanatics. But don't rely on them.

They will not fight against them... The same way moderate mouslims don't fight in their own countries against oppression.
I saw it in Morocco.
They submit to the strongest. That's why most of muslims condemn terrorists attempt in silence, in shadow, not openly... Most of them won't support the EDL for instance.

They'll just stay in their corner and watch, they won't say anything and when the strongest will take power, they'll say "i have always been with you" ! (no matter who the winner will be)

Rebelling is not part of Muslim's culture, except when it's for religion. That's why "Islam" means "submission".
















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Irishcomrad
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Nov 2 2009, 12:23 AM
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Also where in the world do christians come out to the street and condone murder of muslims or any other religion?


Christian murders non-believers in Colorado
Christians burn Witches in Nigeria [Warning this video is very disturbing]
[Article Link to the above ]
Wikipedia page on Christian Terrorism
Christian Murders 8 Hindus
Christian Terrorists Kill 44, wound 118 in India
Failed Car Bombing in Iowa (not to do with non believers, but to do with abortion)


Teachings that require you to murder non-believers and followers of other religions:
Quote:
 
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death
Deuteronomy 17:12

Quote:
 
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
2 Chronicles 15:12-13

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If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.
Zechariah 13:3

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If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.
Deuteronomy 13:7

[there's more than that]

Teachings for killing witches:

Quote:
 
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Exodus 22:18

Quote:
 
When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God shall give thee, beware lest thou have a mind to imitate the abominations of those nations. 10 Neither let there be found among you any one that shall expiate his son or daughter, making them to pass through the fire: or that consulteth soothsayers, or observeth dreams and omens, neither let there be any wizard, 11 Nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead. 12 For the Lord abhorreth all these things, and for these abominations he will destroy them at thy coming.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12


Quote:
 
Muslims are backward in mind, spirit and heart. The have no ability to think for themselves they are controlled by evil masterminds, but by their very nature they will fall, if they do kick off world war 3 then it is them and their ilk who will lose the battle because they live and breath evil, no dought about that



That's just an overgeneralization. Yes, this is true for Militant Islam, but not Islam as a whole - there is a difference. Just as there's a difference between Militant Christianity and standard Christianity. Your regular Christians, like your regular Muslims mean no harm, despite the evil loaded in their holy books and the wrongs committed by their terrorist/extremist/militant brothers.
The quaran is militant, thier leaders are now challenging the west for control whilst the so called moderates allow them to bomb and main by not condemning, it is a cruel religion based on wicked domination of all in its path. Everywhere large group of muslims are violence and religious intolerance abound. The west at present is a sleeping giant but the fleas of Islam are now beginning to draw blood, we are now awakening, be afraid, be very afraid.
When the worlds muslims realises the true nature of islam as we unfold it they will change their religion, the problem at present is moderate muslims live in fear of being murdered for changing their religion by their own so called loving family, when the west gets islam by the throat and warns it off its sick and barbaric ways then the people will choose a more loving religion whatever that may be without the fear of death and fatwas.
Islam is a death cult for sure.
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Irishcomrad
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seppuku
Nov 2 2009, 12:23 AM
Quote:
 
Also where in the world do christians come out to the street and condone murder of muslims or any other religion?


Christian murders non-believers in Colorado
Christians burn Witches in Nigeria [Warning this video is very disturbing]
[Article Link to the above ]
Wikipedia page on Christian Terrorism
Christian Murders 8 Hindus
Christian Terrorists Kill 44, wound 118 in India
Failed Car Bombing in Iowa (not to do with non believers, but to do with abortion)


Teachings that require you to murder non-believers and followers of other religions:
Quote:
 
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death
Deuteronomy 17:12

Quote:
 
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
2 Chronicles 15:12-13

Quote:
 
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.
Zechariah 13:3

Quote:
 
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.
Deuteronomy 13:7

[there's more than that]

Teachings for killing witches:

Quote:
 
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Exodus 22:18

Quote:
 
When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God shall give thee, beware lest thou have a mind to imitate the abominations of those nations. 10 Neither let there be found among you any one that shall expiate his son or daughter, making them to pass through the fire: or that consulteth soothsayers, or observeth dreams and omens, neither let there be any wizard, 11 Nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead. 12 For the Lord abhorreth all these things, and for these abominations he will destroy them at thy coming.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12


Quote:
 
Muslims are backward in mind, spirit and heart. The have no ability to think for themselves they are controlled by evil masterminds, but by their very nature they will fall, if they do kick off world war 3 then it is them and their ilk who will lose the battle because they live and breath evil, no dought about that



That's just an overgeneralization. Yes, this is true for Militant Islam, but not Islam as a whole - there is a difference. Just as there's a difference between Militant Christianity and standard Christianity. Your regular Christians, like your regular Muslims mean no harm, despite the evil loaded in their holy books and the wrongs committed by their terrorist/extremist/militant brothers.
These so called christians are not real christians, they are a backward cult, they desrve the death penalty, those idiots in the niger delta killing children because they say they are witches are being exposed by good christians who are petitioning their leaders and kicking off a whole big stink, where were the muslims when the terrorists blew up people in our country? nowhere, you see a few small pockets of evil in so called christianity by lunatics who have somehow managed to get control but in comparison to Islam it is but a drop in the ocean
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seppuku
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I wonder if you have any back up for those statements? The militants are ones to be a afraid of, and they use the Qu'ran for its darker teachings, but whilst there are quiet moderates, there are also Muslims making their own stances in promoting Islam as a religion of peace and bringing out tolerance. It is the militants that are ruining it.

Here is one group acknowledging what Muslims have pushed Islam to become:
Reform Islam URL

But also, Muslim groups moving to solve some conflict:
An Islamic Coalition Taskforce

Anti-Extremist Muslims in Luton

There's a number of Muslims who believe contrary to the "death cult" as you call it. You say that when people realise that Islam is a death cult, they will convert. The question is, is Islam meant to be a death cult? Because many read the Qu'ran differently and avoid a complete literal interpretation - like many of our Jewish and Christian friends. Preferably, everybody would realise that there is no god and get on with their lives, but I am happy so long as we're promoting that peaceful interpretations are good, whilst extremist ones are bad and as far as I can see, the Muslim community is still doing that. Though perhaps not enough are standing against the extremists, but I don't think many have the balls in the Muslim and non-Muslim world to do that.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Reform islam also has a blog spot and youtube channel. I've been reading some of their comments and frankly they seem like a decent group.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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Irishcomrad
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When we have churches in mecca, and non muslims (Kuffars) walking the streets of mecca then we may have turned a corner, the problem now is the clash of good and bad, the west has come a long way over the 50 years with regards to racial and religious tolerance, Islam will not move from its backward stance, it wants world domination and to keep its archaic ideology.
Evil people are drawn to islam and islam embraces them.
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AgeofEnlightenment
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The west became this tolerant and free because secularists made it this way, some of which were actually non-religious.

These secularists based democratic values off Greek and Roman societies, where voting on ideas and people took place.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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seppuku
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These so called christians are not real christians, they are a backward cult, they desrve the death penalty, those idiots in the niger delta killing children because they say they are witches are being exposed by good christians who are petitioning their leaders and kicking off a whole big stink, where were the muslims when the terrorists blew up people in our country? nowhere, you see a few small pockets of evil in so called christianity by lunatics who have somehow managed to get control but in comparison to Islam it is but a drop in the ocean


'They are not real Christians' I like that answer, what are real Christians?
Why do you consider the extremists to be real Muslims? Could a Muslim say, "they're not the real Muslims, no, they're interpreted it wrong'. Why must Islam as a whole be condemned for what its extremists do when Christianity gets off Scot-free because they not 'real' Christians.

Their actions are supported by the bible, so why can't we call them real Christians? Lets break it down:

Christians - people who believe in Jesus Christ - correct?
Christians therefore follow the word of their Lord in Heaven, Jesus Christ, correct?
Jesus said in the book of John;

"For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

What Moses said is written down in 5 books - Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy and Leviticus. This automatically makes those 5 books just as relevant as the new testament - hence people quote the creation story, talk about Adam and Eve and follow the 10 commandments. The 2 witch quotes I brought up were from Exodus and Deuteronomy - surely, they would be just as relevant to a real Christian as the 10 commandments? We see the Christians in Nigeria taking heed of the bible's teachings and not allowing witches to live - or at least what they perceive to be witches. But also the Christian terrorist groups - they're taken heed of the bible's teachings.

Would this not make Christianity a death cult too?
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AgeofEnlightenment
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I'd also like to make a further point that in Matthew 5:17-20, the follow passage states:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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shiva
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Nov 2 2009, 11:30 AM
We see the Christians in Nigeria taking heed of the bible's teachings and not allowing witches to live - or at least what they perceive to be witches. But also the Christian terrorist groups - they're taken heed of the bible's teachings.
One little snag here, this was not filmed in Nigeria, it was supposed to be filmed in Kenya in an area where most of the people are animist/christian, so this brings into question how much of this disgusting behavior can be put down to animism and how much to christianity.

But what bothers me is this film has been around for some time now, and I have seen it under another context, what bothers me about it there are a few guys wearing white caps that look very much like moslem praying caps
Also, at 2:35 and 3:20 allah wackbar can be heard.

But disregarding these small discrepancies it is disgusting
Edited by shiva, Nov 2 2009, 06:06 PM.
To oppose islam is not racism, it is a sign of a healthy mind
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seppuku
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Perhaps I got the video wrong, but the accompanying news article demonstrates the horrors of the superstition from Christians. It is quite possible that the causes for the attacks come from elsewhere, but we can see Christian teachings supporting it and it is the teachings of Christ that are spouted by the preacher to lead believes onto turn over their own children to be beaten, tortured or/and murdered.

Age of Enlightenment - that's perhaps a better quote to use, cheers. ;)
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Irishcomrad
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Nov 2 2009, 11:30 AM
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These so called christians are not real christians, they are a backward cult, they desrve the death penalty, those idiots in the niger delta killing children because they say they are witches are being exposed by good christians who are petitioning their leaders and kicking off a whole big stink, where were the muslims when the terrorists blew up people in our country? nowhere, you see a few small pockets of evil in so called christianity by lunatics who have somehow managed to get control but in comparison to Islam it is but a drop in the ocean


'They are not real Christians' I like that answer, what are real Christians?
Why do you consider the extremists to be real Muslims? Could a Muslim say, "they're not the real Muslims, no, they're interpreted it wrong'. Why must Islam as a whole be condemned for what its extremists do when Christianity gets off Scot-free because they not 'real' Christians.

Their actions are supported by the bible, so why can't we call them real Christians? Lets break it down:

Christians - people who believe in Jesus Christ - correct?
Christians therefore follow the word of their Lord in Heaven, Jesus Christ, correct?
Jesus said in the book of John;

"For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

What Moses said is written down in 5 books - Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy and Leviticus. This automatically makes those 5 books just as relevant as the new testament - hence people quote the creation story, talk about Adam and Eve and follow the 10 commandments. The 2 witch quotes I brought up were from Exodus and Deuteronomy - surely, they would be just as relevant to a real Christian as the 10 commandments? We see the Christians in Nigeria taking heed of the bible's teachings and not allowing witches to live - or at least what they perceive to be witches. But also the Christian terrorist groups - they're taken heed of the bible's teachings.

Would this not make Christianity a death cult too?
these maniacs are not forcing their ideals on free modern countries, they are not blowing up buildings, trains and busses or declaring jihad or issuing fatwas. They are nutjobs in isolated areas away from mainstream free people. If they lived amongst us they would be jailed etc

Christians are not murdering innolcent people all over the world like muslims are or marrying children or killing their daughters for marrying whoi she wants.

Trying to compare a bunch sick of christian idiots in the mainly isolated christian areas verses the sickness of islam and their terror campaign is akin to comparing adolph hitler with a naughy child.
Edited by Irishcomrad, Nov 2 2009, 06:25 PM.
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