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the class system in britain; video on the class system in britain
Topic Started: Oct 26 2009, 09:18 AM (274 Views)
Neo-Realist
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i have to say that i agree with a lot of what this guy says. after chartism the british working class were, for a very long period, the most quiet in industrialised europe and this has been a subject for much debate by labour historians, and lenin - why did the british proles nor revolt? in britain, knowing your place is very important.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlQDz1gV8aU
Edited by Neo-Realist, Oct 27 2009, 08:10 AM.
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mark wba
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thats spot on,it is visible in every walk of society.i have witnessed this on the EDL demos,where the UAF can wonder about the areas where we we demonstrate,but the EDL supporters are coralled into one place surrounded by fencing with a heavy police presence.its people who are born into the upper class(silver spoon brigade) who get preferencial treatment.the UAF talk about equality but its not visible on the demos.
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Ronald
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mark wba
Oct 26 2009, 10:12 AM
thats spot on,it is visible in every walk of society.i have witnessed this on the EDL demos,where the UAF can wonder about the areas where we we demonstrate,but the EDL supporters are coralled into one place surrounded by fencing with a heavy police presence.its people who are born into the upper class(silver spoon brigade) who get preferencial treatment.the UAF talk about equality but its not visible on the demos.
True, but pragmatism suggests that the working-class have a higher propensity for kicking-off. When you look at it from that perspective then it sort of makes sense for the police to be wary of that.

Though I admit that the police have f**k all clue of their core responsibility to protect everyone's right to peacefully protest (take the case of Ian Tomlinson accidentally included in the G20 protest/police action).
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The bloke behind that british reparations is a Yank called Steven Grasse, who claims that England has caused ALL the worlds problems.

http://www.evilempirebook.com/author.php

He is also behind a org that states that Britain should pay back trillions of pounds to all the countries we have apparently destroyed or oppressed.

http://www.britishreparations.org/

Utter wanker!
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Neo-Realist
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even though i don't agree with most of what the yank, who wrote the book, says when he says that Britain ruined the world, i agree with this bit about the class system from this English guy
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The book is a joke, we also brought a lot of good to the world.
Evil empire, pah.
arthur.
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Ronald
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arthur
 
The book is a joke, we also brought a lot of good to the world.
Evil empire, pah.
arthur.


At least you recognise that it was probably a mixed bag. :)
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ImperialEmperor
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Kafir
That Evil Empire Book is the worst book I have ever read, I hated it, The Man contradicts himself dozens of times and Shows a blatant lack of research in his facts of British history.

I emplore any British person to punch this man on sight, He is defacing British culture and History through Bias- Americian Lies. If I was the Government I would be launching a Libel case againest him. The Fact that This deflamitory Filth was broadcast on Prime time british T.V shows how far our nation has fallen when it will not defend its History and what ALL our ancestors have spilt blood over, but entertain the Ideas. Its Ironic that all this comes from a Americian, a Member of the Great Empire of today.

Oh and getting back to the point , Yes Britain is still entrenched in a Class system.
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"The Death of one Man is a tragedy, the death of a Million is a statistic"
Joseph Stalin

"I have nothing to declare but my genius"
Oscar Wilde

"Imperialism is the highest form of Capitalism"
Vladmir Lenin

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AgeofEnlightenment
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Steve
Oct 26 2009, 10:39 AM
The bloke behind that british reparations is a Yank called Steven Grasse, who claims that England has caused ALL the worlds problems.

http://www.evilempirebook.com/author.php

He is also behind a org that states that Britain should pay back trillions of pounds to all the countries we have apparently destroyed or oppressed.

http://www.britishreparations.org/

Utter wanker!
Heh, and I suppose the muslims should pay repparations for colonisation of Spain, North/East Africa, Mesopotamia, Persia, Syria, Jerusalem, Greek Asia Minor, Central/South-East Asia, Russia, and China.

Oh but it doesn't count because they're not white, crusading, christian, colonials with jack boots.

*shifts the goal posts*
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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AgeofEnlightenment
Oct 27 2009, 09:43 AM
Steve
Oct 26 2009, 10:39 AM
The bloke behind that british reparations is a Yank called Steven Grasse, who claims that England has caused ALL the worlds problems.

http://www.evilempirebook.com/author.php

He is also behind a org that states that Britain should pay back trillions of pounds to all the countries we have apparently destroyed or oppressed.

http://www.britishreparations.org/

Utter wanker!
Heh, and I suppose the muslims should pay repparations for colonisation of Spain, North/East Africa, Mesopotamia, Persia, Syria, Jerusalem, Greek Asia Minor, Central/South-East Asia, Russia, and China.

Oh but it doesn't count because they're not white, crusading, christian, colonials with jack boots.

*shifts the goal posts*
Or the Moors for their invasions of Italy or Spain......Or the French for their colonies......Or the Argies for cheating us out of the World cup, the bastards! ;)
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Kafir
Steve
Oct 27 2009, 11:59 AM
AgeofEnlightenment
Oct 27 2009, 09:43 AM
Steve
Oct 26 2009, 10:39 AM
The bloke behind that british reparations is a Yank called Steven Grasse, who claims that England has caused ALL the worlds problems.

http://www.evilempirebook.com/author.php

He is also behind a org that states that Britain should pay back trillions of pounds to all the countries we have apparently destroyed or oppressed.

http://www.britishreparations.org/

Utter wanker!
Heh, and I suppose the muslims should pay repparations for colonisation of Spain, North/East Africa, Mesopotamia, Persia, Syria, Jerusalem, Greek Asia Minor, Central/South-East Asia, Russia, and China.

Oh but it doesn't count because they're not white, crusading, christian, colonials with jack boots.

*shifts the goal posts*
Or the Moors for their invasions of Italy or Spain......Or the French for their colonies......Or the Argies for cheating us out of the World cup, the bastards! ;)
Reckon the Argies were shifting the goal posts too?
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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AgeofEnlightenment
Oct 27 2009, 12:21 PM
Reckon the Argies were shifting the goal posts too?
LMAO! Just remembered a top song by a band called the Business about Maradonna

WE ARE THE ENGLISH WE PLAY FAIR
WE LOST THE CUP, BUT WE DON'T CARE!
EVERYONE KNOWS THE FINAL SCORE
BUT WHO WON THE FALKLANDS WAR?

Ooooo naughty naughty
Ooooo hanky panky
Ooooo argie bargy
Oooooooo HANDBALL!

2-1 FINAL SCORE
WHO WON THE FALKLANDS WAR? :D
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AgeofEnlightenment
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Kafir
Ahh yes, the ballad of the wanker.

I swear the same thing could be heard when England beat us a few years back at Rugby, that little ponce kicked a goal because they couldn't get passed our defence. Poor guy would have been flattened.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche

"All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings." - Denis Diderot.

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
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ignominius
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The video does make some sense. But from what I've studied of our history (admittedly only to A-level), one of the reasons that the proleteriat didn't rise up much was that though life was tough for those at the bottom, the Europeans had it far, far worse than we did. Also I think there is some inate British thing about loyalty as well. We've been closer as a people to our monarchs than Europeans. European monarchs always distanced themselves from the masses. If you look at our monarchs From Edward I down the ages, they have at the critical times been seen to be with the people. Henry V, with a small army who stood with him against a much larger enemy. Elizabeth I and her speech and so on (just to pick a handful of examples) True there have been a few - such as James II who pissed everyone off as well as George IV but relatively few. We're all Brits together seems to be the underlying tie that bound us and kept us from rising up.

Now I think we are getting very close to a civil war. The very first civil war that is the people vs Parliament. We've had royal household against royal household, we've had parliament against the crown but never the people against parliament. And it's going to kick off soon unless Labour are kicked out of power and some of the damage caused by their immigration policy of deliberate destruction of the British Identity is reversed.
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Neo-Realist
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the answer is probably to do with the conservatism of edmund burke. he argued against the french revolution saying that a state has to slowly evolve with the culture of the people. he was right about the french revolution. he argued that you could not scrap a government and build a new system from untested abstract ideas, like the liberal ideas that were going around at the time of the french revolution or like how russia tried to get rid off monarchy and build a new communist goverment. burke argued that whatever you had at the start of the revolution you would have after it, but it might even be worse i.e. russia was a tyranny before the revolution and ended up with a tyranny after, some say worse. burke argued that the british system was an organic thing that had slowly evolved, whilst the french were trying to build something totally new. he argued for slow piecemeal reform to fend off revolution and that is what the government did with things like the welfare state and NHS. they made minor changes slowly allowing everyone the franchise. first they gave it to upper middle class then lower then upper working class then all working class then women over 30 then all women etc etc... and all this type of stuff fended off revolution.
Edited by Neo-Realist, Oct 29 2009, 04:16 PM.
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craig
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Yes, the government of the time spoonfed reforms to the people as and when required. Up until now of course...

A classic example was in 1918 when all men were given the vote. Most people today don't realise that only men who held freehold land or paid a rent of more than £10 had a vote. Between 1865 and 1918 up to 40% of men DIDN'T have the vote! Lots of soldiers in the First World War didn't have the right to vote for the government that conscripted them into that war. It was one of the first things that the government did after the end of the war because unhappy returning soldiers are not a recipe for a stable country (sound familiar?). But the government only gave this concession when it had to, otherwise they would have done it before. In Italy and then Germany it was this exact scenario of returning unhappy soldiers that led to the build up that ended in the Second World War.

Working class people (the people who built this country) have always been treated as dispensible cannon fodder. Studies show that the average life expectancy of a man in Manchester in 1875 was just 17. Some studies put it as high as a wopping 32. My own grandfather (born in 1885 - at the place and time of those studies) started working down the local mine at aged 9. He retired at aged 69 from the same mine as he couldn't afford to retire at 65. Any delve into working class family history (not just a family tree, but the context of the times and locations) will reveal relatively recent privations. We are only a short step away from those times.

Interestingly, going off at a slight tangent, you will find that working class culture has always been very non-racist, until relatively recently. It seems to be a combination of a construct of the ignorant middle classes and a swamping of culture by immigrants. I remember reading some politically correct twaddle about the first black police officer being recruited into the Met in the 1960s. I happened to know that this was wrong as I'd seen Victorian photos of a couple of black policemen. When I looked into it further I saw that the first known black police officer was recruited in Carlisle just a few years after the establishment of the police service in the early 19th century. The point I'm making is simply that colour has not been a barrier within working class culture until the social engineers got to work in the 1960s. I'd give another example of this; my family's doctor (Dr Victor Lewis) came to Lancashire from Trinidad in the 1920s. He was much loved by the working people and in the 1960s became the first Freeman of the Borough of Farnworth. Racism my a**e. It's a modern construct of the middle classes. Working people have always just got on with it.
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made in England
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FreeBornJohn
Oct 26 2009, 09:18 AM


i have to say that i agree with a lot of what this guy says. after chartism the british working class were, for a very long period, the most quiet in industrialised europe and this has been a subject for much debate by labour historians, and lenin - why did the british proles nor revolt? in britain, knowing your place is very important.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlQDz1gV8aU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlQDz1gV8aU

Most of the British people do behave like slaves and not even realize theyre doing so, its instilled in them to be subservient to their lords and masters to be controlled and oppressed, they have been conditioned to accept anything, enforced multiculturalism, criminally high taxation etc etc
"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!"

Nations which go down fighting rise again, those who surrender tamely are finished

Midsomer the last great bastion of Englishness ....Brian True-May

Werian se Angelcynn
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chri91
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He is right about the class system, but not everything about the British state is bad. For instance we were the first to abolish slavery.

Slavery had existed for a long long time before that, for instance Millions of people were kidnapped from the southern coast by Moorish pirates, and taken to a life of slavery in North Africa. Also of course we partook in a pan-african slave trade which many afrian tribes we complicit in helping us with.

He may be wrong about some things, but he is right about class.
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ignominius
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I'm no political analyst or expert but I think the class system is the result of land ownership rather than capital. Control of the land controls all else. Particularly on a small island like ours in which land is in short supply. Land becomes so valuable the owners of that land can pull the strings and control the masses.

That's my take on it. If you look at the US it has large amounts of land. It's relatively cheap compared to here and there are no real great landowners other than the government. Same wherever there is large amounts of land. True there are those who have capital and have a certain influence in public affairs but not that great.

I'm sure someone will pooh pooh my idea, but hey it's not something I've ever really looked into. So I'm just making it up as I go along. Just my own observations and a little thinking.
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Niceone
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the guy in the video is Penny Rimbaud used to be in anarchist punk band Crass.


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CINCINNATUS
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made in England
Oct 30 2009, 09:28 AM
FreeBornJohn
Oct 26 2009, 09:18 AM


i have to say that i agree with a lot of what this guy says. after chartism the british working class were, for a very long period, the most quiet in industrialised europe and this has been a subject for much debate by labour historians, and lenin - why did the british proles nor revolt? in britain, knowing your place is very important.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlQDz1gV8aU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlQDz1gV8aU

Most of the British people do behave like slaves and not even realize theyre doing so, its instilled in them to be subservient to their lords and masters to be controlled and oppressed, they have been conditioned to accept anything, enforced multiculturalism, criminally high taxation etc etc
yep its like the men that beat there women and the woman stays with them still, its all conditioning.
quote by me "an illusion only works, when one is ignorant to its operation"


Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad.

ENGLAND FOREVER ISLAMIC STATE NEVER.
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Niceone
Apr 9 2010, 01:13 AM
the guy in the video is Penny Rimbaud used to be in anarchist punk band Crass.


I was just about to say that. Good catch.

I don't agree with everything Penny says, but he's got pretty good views. He's a lovely chap too.

From what I can gather the book itself is a little too reactionary though.


Penny is one of the very few anarchists worthy of that term.
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