Find and be included in our regional map here!
| Welcome to Democratic Socialist Assembly. We hope that you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means that you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features that you can't use. If you join our community (register) in the Democratic Socialist Assembly, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| The Communist International and Us! | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: 23 Jan 2014, 22:11 (1,117 Views) | |
| Discoveria | 24 Jan 2014, 00:31 Post #11 |
![]()
"Bothered to vote"
![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Here's my take on the current situation. 1. The issue has been dissected over and over, but for your information, my view is that NNC's post was homophobic. NNC used an insult that he knew would hurt Cuba more because of Cuba being gay. Cuba has actually provided a 'smoking gun' piece of evidence that this is the case, one that I don't actually recall seeing before. (It's this TG from NNC: "I have nothing homosexuals. I took advantage from Neza being homosexual as he would be vulnerable to a seemingly anti homosexual comment. If Neza wasn't homosexual, I would have found something he was to insult him with it. He just happened to be homosexual instead of, say, being fat.") Therefore, any suggestion that the post has been interpreted mistakenly (due to its deliberate ambiguity), for example by Anima Vagula Blandula, can be safely dismissed. 2. Cuba really does feel deeply hurt about this. I have no doubt about that. 3. The issue concerns DSA in the sense that it is part of your foreign policy considerations. Cuba made it his intention to shut down Communist International's embassies in response to the lack of engagement from CI's government. Of course as you don't actually have an embassy with CI right now, it's hard for me to comment further on this. 4. Cuba has accepted NNC's apology in DSA. Since that is the case, I would hope for a swift resolution to the matter. 5. I don't think it is helpful for either side to bring up the long history of antagonism between DSA/TI/UDL etc. I think there needs to be a clear focus on the dispute between NNC and Cuba. 6. If I may say so, I would support the removal/banjection of Anima Vagula Blandula from the region. I understand that the nation is making a point, but the name is causing further distress and seems spiteful to me. It was not necessary to use such a provocative nation name to contribute anonymously to the discussion. Shame on you, player behind Anima Vagula Blandula. I will not speculate on who controls this player. 7. If I may say so, I believe the 'free speech' objections from Parti Ouvrier and Suceavija miss the point. Free speech provisions are intended to protect political speech, not to protect insults that cross the line into hate speech. NNC's original remark does not deserve such protection. 8. The fact is that some disagreements will remain unresolved. I think the focus should be on what needs to be done next to get closure. Whether a statement from DSA would be helpful, etc. Cuba, I hope you agree with my point here. I want you to feel that justice has been served as well. Please forgive me if my style of expression has been less than stellar. I'll try to respond in due course. |
|
"...to be the most effective form of human government." Professor Simon Goldacre formerly Administrator of the Utopia Foundation | |
![]() |
|
| Jack Steiner | 24 Jan 2014, 00:33 Post #12 |
Minister of Foreign Affairs
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
But that's just it Cuba, I've been insulted in the past by Sucejiva, I took it as a misunderstanding and it just rolled over me, yet, in the end, I think Suc is deep down a pleasant and thoughtful character, I don't loo at any negative comment said and conclude that is who they are, if I did that, I would have to say that you're a misogynist and cannot be reformed, but apparently, trying to do this with NNC's homophobic remarks, which were a year ago, taints him forever! Incidentally, were there calls for you to be ejected when you made misogynist remarks to comrade Veronica? Were you shunned, harassed, had regions declaring any regions you resided in as harbouring misogynists and must have embassies closed? And you can dish out criticism but cannot take it can you? Why should anarchists have special treatment and not be critiqued? If you can't take a critique from the left, what are you going to be like in a situation of increased class consciousness and fascists and or pro capitalist attracts on our characters? Or even in current day media, for example, think of it as the 'Paxo' test, could you handle a barraging from Jeremy Paxman? Jeremy Paxman: "So what use is it for you anarchists types to just troll around on the internet, is that really going to change anything? Or, Paxo: "Why do you support Kim Jung Un, a man who heads a dictatorial regime that commits torture and starvation of his own people? Meanwhile, Un live a luxurious lifestyle. That doesn't sound very socialist to me". Or "Hasn't China got the same levels of inequality as the US", or what ever... Cubana: "Cease and desist your criticism of us", *leaves room* If you can't take a heated debate, even online, my advice to you is to get out of politics, because I've had to deal with far worse characters, (in the real world by the way) than an online freemason* that made homophobic remarks a year ago. Anyway, yes I took time to respond, I'm beginning to think that perhaps both you and NNC should have been ejected and banned, NNC for his class collaborating politics and you for your support for the national bourgeoisie, (N.Korea/Kim Jung Un and China - I don't see anything communist about that). Also, gays and blacks have been persecuted in left-Bonapartist Cuba. And if you're wondering why it takes time, NSG is a second priority for me, existing left/socialist/communist organisations take presidence, I'm only human, I can't remember everything in the past, or act straight away, and there are real things going on - such as left group email lists, ect, factions in the SWP, Left Unity, ect. Of course I do accept Laand's criticism in some respects, but as I always said, NNC was to become a resident/guest only, without voting rights in other words, so Laand is incorrect to say that he shared a political platform, unfortunately this led to confusion, the only way to overcome that would have been to eject both Cubana and NNC! * By the way, the offending nation here in the DSA looks to me like a freemasonic 'brother'. I could be wrong. |
![]() |
|
| Riasy | 24 Jan 2014, 00:52 Post #13 |
|
"Representative"
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Comrade Cuba, thank you very much for explaining this situation in organized manner. I understood three things from the evidences that you have presented: 1. New New Capston is a leftist player with homophobic tendencies, and he has insulted you in the past. I can understand why you want to inform others about this. 2. Parti Ouvrier/SAM hasn’t demonstrated any homophobic tendencies. If you don’t like how he treated your case when he was in CIL/CI you should discuss it with him via TG and/or with other members of CIL/CI. My opinion is that your conflict with SAM has no interregional importance, so I don’t think that members of DSA have reasons to choose sides in your conflict with him. 3. Nation Animula Vagula Blandula was named in such way to repeat the insult that was made by New New Capston in that incident and to provoke your negative reaction. Flaimbaiting is a form of trolling, and trolling is punishable offense in DSA. I hope that our Minister of Justice will research the possibility of ejection of Animula Vagula Blandula because of the obvious trollish intent behind its name. Edited by Riasy, 24 Jan 2014, 01:03.
|
| Minister of Justice | |
![]() |
|
| Discoveria | 24 Jan 2014, 00:57 Post #14 |
![]()
"Bothered to vote"
![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I also want to address a point made by Ratateague on the DSA RMB earlier, namely this post:
My emphasis in bold. The bolded statement is blatantly false. Gay did not come to any consensus. If anything, there was a wide range of views. Duodez and I were of the opinion that NNC had been homophobic. Fennijer saw it as a personal insult only. Asakya's post, in hindsight now, appears to be one long ad hominem attack on Cuba. Needless to say, I disagree completely with Asakya's perception of NNC's homophobic remark. Cherry-picking Asakya's post out of our RMB as if it is the only important thing that was said, annoys me a little, I have to say. You can follow the original discussion at http://www.nationstates.net/page=/region=gay/page=display_region_rmb?start=9025 Edited by Discoveria, 24 Jan 2014, 00:58.
|
|
"...to be the most effective form of human government." Professor Simon Goldacre formerly Administrator of the Utopia Foundation | |
![]() |
|
| Jack Steiner | 24 Jan 2014, 01:17 Post #15 |
Minister of Foreign Affairs
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Yes, everyone has a right to get things wrong. I did a superb job as WAD in CI didn't I? Of course, it would have been a judgement call to, for instance, eject nations. I also didn't manage to get comrades to understand the difference in participating in the region and merely being a resident. By the way, NNC posted a whole load of freemasonic,(far from being an institution of working class independence) links type spam in CIL way back. |
![]() |
|
| Discoveria | 24 Jan 2014, 01:22 Post #16 |
![]()
"Bothered to vote"
![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Fair enough. My view, Parti Ouvrier, is that you and Cuba fundamentally disagree on aspects of how justice should have been administered in CI. I can understand that. |
|
"...to be the most effective form of human government." Professor Simon Goldacre formerly Administrator of the Utopia Foundation | |
![]() |
|
| Ratateague | 24 Jan 2014, 01:46 Post #17 |
|
"Politician"
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Okay, I was probably wrong on that one. From the volume of comments that I had read, that was just my general impression. However.
I understand you may not be a familiar with a lot of the context surrounding DSA/TI disputes. What you may not know is that this kind of situation is nothing new for us. Where a grievance is perceived by TI members -often incorrectly- and they proceed to harass us in every (game-legal) way imaginable. Propaganda campaigns. Baiting and swearing at us from their regions. Gossiping and slandering us in our embassy regions. Piling on our RMB to spam and incite players. In particular, using people (to be expatriated) as bargaining chips in peace negotiations (aka "stop with the bickering and slandering, please"). These situations have been held over us and revisited over and over and over for us. Cuba being one of the major perpetrators/instigators. And it's nothing short of trolling, from the very amused reactions we've seen to our frustration. So while I'm inclined to agree with you on those terms, and that this is a unique situation where the grievance is actually substantial, please understand that this may be just another play on their part, and it is very hard to separate it from their history of dealings with us. We still have yet to hear the end of Unibot, or even the Antarctic Alliance dispute. Considering that Animula-whatever travelled to DSA after making those comments, it is increasingly clear that their intentions were to start another fight between Cuba, TI/CI, and ourselves. Regrettably, Cuba took the bait, but it's understandable as he's a very passionate and excitable person. Regardless, I'm hardpressed to grant him this one wish. I don't expect any feelings of gratitude in return, or any alleviation of resentment towards us. But what I do expect, is to never have to hear of this again. If I hear any criticism of "DSA's unjust banning of Animula," there will be HELL to pay. Mark my words. Cuba: whether you find it hard to believe, whether you despise me too much to listen, I am actually concerned about you. Not in a condescending way. Outside of the game. I have noticed your behavior for a while, and you have probably heard this before, but I feel like I need to say it. You are obviously very intelligent, but also troubled. You need someone to talk to, someone to lean on, someone to confide in, someone to vent with. Perhaps even therapy. I've had therapy, regarding my disability. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Edited by Ratateague, 24 Jan 2014, 02:17.
|
![]() |
|
| Riasy | 24 Jan 2014, 02:13 Post #18 |
|
"Representative"
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
We should eject Animula not because of the wishes of Comrade Cuba, but because according to the information that we have now it was named in such way with intention to flaimbait other player. Flaimbaiting is a form of trolling, and trolling is prohibited in DSA, so we should take action against this nation. |
| Minister of Justice | |
![]() |
|
| Kiptoke-Ruselia | 24 Jan 2014, 02:32 Post #19 |
![]()
"Candidate"
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Maybe it would be a good idea to settle this in the DSA court if we are truly going to ban someone. |
The Commonwealth of Kiptoke-Ruselia![]() Escalating Nuclear Conflicts Everywhere | |
![]() |
|
| StJames | 24 Jan 2014, 02:45 Post #20 |
|
"The Chosen One: Lugia"
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Agreed. If someone could please do the honours. |
|
Life can be a challenge Life can seem impossible It's never easy when so much Is on the line | |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · General Discussion · Next Topic » |






![]](http://z3.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)



Of course, it would have been a judgement call to, for instance, eject nations. I also didn't manage to get comrades to understand the difference in participating in the region and merely being a resident. 


12:15 AM Jul 11