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| Putting the foundations of a left-defender organization | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 10 Jan 2014, 19:32 (1,038 Views) | |
| Kryftland | 15 Feb 2014, 05:12 Post #21 |
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"Debater"
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Firstly, if you read the starting post you will see that the central theme of this discussion is to establish a purely defensive coalition, so no need for the bold all-caps stuff. Secondly, perhaps you might help us understand your opinion more if you actually provided some rational criticism of the Red Fleet option, rather than the (empty) apocalyptic nonsense.
I will review it in more depth when I have time, but the immediate issue I notice is that you exclude the possibility of defending anarchists by your requirement for a region to have a representative-democracy form of government. Edited by Kryftland, 15 Feb 2014, 05:18.
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| Remean Lord | 15 Feb 2014, 20:35 Post #22 |
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"Bothered to vote"
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The outline of this defense coalition is currently a draft. When I authored it, I set it somewhat like a DSA-type government, hence the requirement of a regional democracy. Still, I do not want to get this organization, and possibly the DSA, tangled up in too many "radical" affairs (in fact, at the time, I did attempted to avoid the membership of the Internationale, due to the enormous tensions that were flaring back and fourth at the time). Even with this in mind, with the SDL being centered on a representative council, I would like to see some sort of popular sovereignty exhibited in nations who take part. The document does give reference to regions that are halfway-members, who can submit pleas, and fall under the umbrella of aid that the SDL gives, but do not deliberate in its meetings or have full membership. Perhaps this idea can be further exploited... If I haven't said this, I would like to make this extremely clear: This document is still up for debate, and major changes can be made or added. |
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| Kryftland | 15 Feb 2014, 22:18 Post #23 |
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"Debater"
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Well that about says it all. Socialism calls for total economic/social transformation (by reform and/or revolution)... it is fundamentally radical. I think this is an issue. If you genuinely want to build an organisation that unites all socialists in mutual defence, rather than simply extending the DSA's power by building a interregional organisation in its image, then you might want to consider the plurality of the left wing. Ah I see, so the anarchists aren't allowed genuine membership because they are not a close enough reflection of the DSA, but you plan to extend a rather hollow "half-membership" offer of pity. I think your generosity would not be appreciated. Understood. But I think your basic approach to the matter is rather unilateral. On a more positive note, I like the name: Socialist Defence League. Edited by Kryftland, 15 Feb 2014, 22:40.
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| Lemur Isles | 16 Feb 2014, 01:34 Post #24 |
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Charter Member
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I've just joined the Red Fleet because it's simpler, and they have experience. |
| Former Secretary General | |
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| Grobladonia | 17 Feb 2014, 23:57 Post #25 |
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"Party Leader"
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I'd like to add some things here. First of all I was thinking of an organization that would defend all leftist regions, not just democratic ones. The guiding principle behind this is that you need to experience the contrast in order to truly understand an idea. So even regions that espouse authoritarian veins of leftist thought can at least help people understand why they should be rejected. Another thing is that I want this to preferably be an independent organization, rather than and interregional alliance, similar in some ways to the UDL or TRF. However I also believe that an organization that is unaccountable to anyone but itself can become dangerous, so some system of oversight on the part of the NS left would also be needed, though I have no idea on how to accomplish this. Regarding starting this off as a branch of the Red Fleet, I do in fact have one small objection. My philosophy in wanting to create this organization is a bit different than that of TRF. TRF is built primarily around anti-fascism, while I would like to build this around protecting leftist regions for educational purposes. By its actions this organization would indeed be implicitly anti-fascist, but the focus would be on providing as wide a platform as possible for the spread of leftist ideas, whichever they may be rather than simply the destruction of fascism. Perhaps this nuance is a bit subtle, but I consider it significant. When it comes to Defender organizations, one key difference between this organization and, say, the UDL would be its focus. While organizations like the UDL are game-centered in both their actions and ideology, this organization would have an RL-centered ideology with the game simply being the medium through which this focus is manifested. @UFC: I disagree with you when it comes to TRF. They are without a doubt a mixed R/D organization, though the raiding aspect tends to take center stage kore often than not. They are also different from universal raiders in that they are motivated by RL political ideologies rather just a desire to play the game in an aggressive way. On top of this, they reject both universal defending and universal raiding in equal measure, as evidenced by their expulsion and condemnation of Proletaurus when he turned to universal raiding. Most of my criticism of TRF would center more on strategy than anything else. Given the nature of gameplay mechanics it seems unlikely that their stated goal of destroying fascism in this game is actually achievable. If this is true then they are expending a huge amount of time and energy on something that cannot be done. This is one of the reasons behind my desire to found this left-defender organization. I believe that the best way this game can be used to have an impact IRL is through education. This means keeping as many leftist regions open as places of learning and debate so that the ideals of the left can spread, myths can be debunked and dangerous ideas such as fascism can be countered. |
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The United Socialist States of Grobladonia "In Cats We Trust" ![]() Charter Nation of the Democratic Socialist Assembly Former Ambassador to the Communist International League Minister of Domestic Affairs | |
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| Defwa | 18 Feb 2014, 07:15 Post #26 |
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<<< Minister of Role Play >>>
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Though I don't fully understand raiding in NS yet, the idea of a purely defensive group sounds like a good idea. Especially in this case where the goal is to exhibit a more specific political view. I would support the inclusion of authoritarian governments in this type of organization as long as personal freedoms are up to snuff. What's wrong with an interregional alliance? Keeping such a group accountable in an independent form seems like it would take more work than the value of any good the organization could ever do. Edited by Defwa, 18 Feb 2014, 07:21.
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| Remean Lord | 19 Feb 2014, 02:51 Post #27 |
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"Bothered to vote"
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In response to requests and how the stream of debate has progressed, I have revisited my draft of the Socialist Defense League, and have amended it to create a more encompassing organization, including amending the exclusion of anarchists, which was a MAJOR flaw in the first draft. This new draft can be viewed at the following link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FNybFFFaYxJ2GvbC39PXH8fso_Ps7D6IVX0wDeJH2t4/edit?usp=sharing Concerning TRF: I would not support any action linking this new organization (mine or any other one) with TRF. I believe that this new region should have the sole priority of protecting those under attack, not to wage war on other ideologies. With our regions we are diverse; with our defense coalition, we unite to protect ourselves, in our diversity. Again, please review this new outline, and comment or telegram me (@ The Remean Lordship) to input ideas or give comment. |
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| Kryftland | 19 Feb 2014, 06:40 Post #28 |
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"Debater"
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Remean Lord, I apologise for my unnecessarily snarky attitude in my previous post. Thank you for addressing my concerns regarding inclusiveness, which is not only self-interested concern for anarchists, but concern that this would need to be genuinely pluralistic to allow unity. Unity in diversity. However, I would agree with Grobladonia that an independent organisation would be preferable to an interregional alliance. My opinion is that it should be a purely (defensive) military affair, with no power politics between regions. Politicking and diplomatic chicanery should be cut out entirely (which would not be possible in an interregional alliance) and bureaucracy should be avoided to prevent stagnation and inefficiency. I still stand by my proposition of an open, democratic, and dynamic socialist militia. |
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| Grobladonia | 16 Mar 2014, 12:57 Post #29 |
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"Party Leader"
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Unfortunately, I won't be able to have more than passive involvement with this idea and I'm currently looking for someone with more free time to take it to the next level. My circumstances between when I proposed this and now have changed rather dramatically. |
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The United Socialist States of Grobladonia "In Cats We Trust" ![]() Charter Nation of the Democratic Socialist Assembly Former Ambassador to the Communist International League Minister of Domestic Affairs | |
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| Kryftland | 18 Mar 2014, 21:36 Post #30 |
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"Debater"
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Greetings comrades, I have pushed forwards with the matter of a left-defender organisation, and believing that it should be a multi-regional effort I have contacted some other regions. It so turns out that the Communist International and United Socialist Republics were already discussing the idea, and so in the interest of achieving our shared goals I have opened up an open conference in the multi-regional Red Forum. I believe that this is really promising and positive progress. Red Forum - Discussion Edited by Kryftland, 24 Mar 2014, 02:25.
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