Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]

Find and be included in our regional map here!

Welcome to the boards of the Democratic Socialist Assembly!

Charter Opt-In (LINK)

    New? [notice]Helpful Resources for Nationbuilding; courtesy of Comrade Ratateague [link]http://s1.zetaboards.com/DemocraticSocialist/topic/5052223/1/[/link][/notice]
    Active Discussions [notice]Roleplay [link]http://s1.zetaboards.com/DemocraticSocialist/forum/1567864/[/link][/notice] [notice]Map! -- LINK [/notice] [notice]General Discussion Forum [link]http://s1.zetaboards.com/DemocraticSocialist/forum/1565787/[/link][/notice][notice]Optional Census of the DSA [link]http://s1.zetaboards.com/DemocraticSocialist/topic/5037512/[/link][/notice]
Welcome to Democratic Socialist Assembly. We hope that you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means that you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features that you can't use. If you join our community (register) in the Democratic Socialist Assembly, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Proposal to ammend the embassy criteria
Topic Started: 8 Jan 2014, 01:23 (915 Views)
Grobladonia
Member Avatar
"Party Leader"
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
So, here is my second proposal for the new year. I seem to be on a roll. :P

While I have always agreed that embassies should mean something, there has always been one criterion that has irked me: the one regarding the maximum percentage of nations on our prohibited category list within an embassy region.

We as a region chose to have this requirement so that composition of our membership reflects the democratic principles of the region, and that's okay. However many regions do not have any rules regarding WA categories and it should not then be surprising that many will fail to meet this criterion. This is why I believe that it should be dropped from the embassy criteria entirely. It is my firm opinion that this is an unreasonable limitation on our region's ability to seek diplomatic ties to like-minded regions, especially since I see the prohibited category list as serving a mostly aesthetic purpose for us. Things such as professed ideology of a region and it's internal government structure should be what determines whether we have an embassy with a it or not, rather than the WA categories of its constituent nations. After all, these categories don't necessarily reflect the beliefs of a person or a region.

So, this is my little amendment to the embassy criteria. What do you think? :)
The United Socialist States of Grobladonia
"In Cats We Trust"
Posted Image
Charter Nation of the Democratic Socialist Assembly
Former Ambassador to the Communist International League
Minister of Domestic Affairs
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Terlibe
Member Avatar
"House Chairman"
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I get where you are coming from. Perhaps we should move it to the "Suggestions."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lemur Isles
Member Avatar
Charter Member
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I think I would agree to that. The stats on nationstates tell you nothing about your real life views, Lemur Isles is a Capitalizt for example :P
Former Secretary General
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Herrebrugh
Member Avatar
"Faction Leader"
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Actually, I strongly disagree. While it is absolutely true that other regions will have other rules on WA-categorization, I think this, quite frankly fundamental rule (category-requirements) in particular is so important in the DSA (it has been in place since before the foundation of the Democratic Socialist Assembly, being pretty much the one important rule that has carried over from the Democratic Socialist Alliance) that it is certainly sensible to question whether regions with a strong representation of authoritarian nations are compatible with the ideology present in the DSA.

Besides that, I don't think I merely speak for myself when I say that I am not at all comfortable with establishing embassies with regions with a strong representation of authoritarian nations. Especially in regions in which both (in-game) executive functions are held by authoritarian nations.

Therefore I am strongly opposed to getting rid of this requirement. However, let it be known that in case of these regions I am not at all against establishing relations in general, I'm just opposed to establishing embassies with them, considering I, and probably many others, regard it as a sign of friendship and substantive ideological similarity, and regions mentioned are lacking in the latter department.
Edited by Herrebrugh, 10 Jan 2014, 21:28.
Getekend, Herrebrugh
-
Signed, Herrebrugh


Eenheid, Vrijheid, Solidariteit
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Haltari
Member Avatar
"House Chairman"
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I agree with Herrebrugh on this one. I personally am a bit uncomfortable about establishing embassies with regions with so many dictatorships. The embassy requirement may be somewhat of an arbitrary cut-off, but I think we need to draw the line somewhere. We shouldn't be able to establish embassies with regions that are mostly in our prohibited categories even if they claim to believe in democratic socialism. I consider embassies to be reserved to only regions that are very similar to our own region, and this restriction is one way to easily eliminate regions that as a whole have low civil rights and political freedoms.

Also, while it is true that the categories in NS don't always reflect what people actually believe, that doesn't stop us from having some prohibited categories ourselves.
International Affairs Office of The Constitutional Monarchy of HaltariFormer Secretary-General of the Democratic Socialist Assembly for the 9th Cabinet
Former President and World Assembly Delegate of the Democratic Socialist Assembly for the 5th, 6th, and 7th Cabinets
Former Minister of Immigration and Regional Promotion of the Democratic Socialist Assembly for the 3rd and 4th Cabinets

"National Unity and Liberty"

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kiptoke-Ruselia
Member Avatar
"Candidate"
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Well, than again, we must not forget that:

1. Some nations might be brand new, and made some weird decisions in their pre nation poll that made them a restricted category instead of what they actually believe in, and;

2. Most people don't know that you can search results of events, and they vote what they seem best, which actually might push them accidentally into an unwanted category.

Thus, maybe we should dig further and look into the history of individual nations, than just a general skimming, as in look into the trends, see if this government was recently made, if it looks to be an accident, or on purpose, and if they're new.
The Commonwealth of Kiptoke-Ruselia
Posted Image
Escalating Nuclear Conflicts Everywhere
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Herrebrugh
Member Avatar
"Faction Leader"
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Kiptoke
11 Jan 2014, 02:39
Well, than again, we must not forget that:

1. Some nations might be brand new, and made some weird decisions in their pre nation poll that made them a restricted category instead of what they actually believe in, and;

2. Most people don't know that you can search results of events, and they vote what they seem best, which actually might push them accidentally into an unwanted category.

Thus, maybe we should dig further and look into the history of individual nations, than just a general skimming, as in look into the trends, see if this government was recently made, if it looks to be an accident, or on purpose, and if they're new.
However, it's not accidental when a nation is a psychotic dictatorship, as is the case with the founder of the Communict Bloc (just to name an example).

Besides that, if the authoritarian nations in a region are only so by accident, I think you can expect their representation within that region to be quite low (ten percent at best). When you have regions with thirty/fourty percent or more authoritarian nations, I think you can safely assume that this doesn't have anything to do with recently founded nations. Unless said regions are recently founded, but it's not a good idea to immediately build embassies with recently founded regions either.
Getekend, Herrebrugh
-
Signed, Herrebrugh


Eenheid, Vrijheid, Solidariteit
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Grobladonia
Member Avatar
"Party Leader"
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
@ Herrebrugh and Haltari:

Okay, fair enough. The number of nations in the prohibited categories, as well as their positions within the region can be a indicator of the region's views to a point, but it should not be a make-or-break fixed percentage. It should be something more along the lines of the optional criteria: something that is considered when deciding whether to create an embassy but which can be overlooked if there are enough reasons to do so.

And here is one more way a region can wind up being artificially unsuitable for an embassy with us: puppets. Many players have more than one nation, and not all of a player's puppets will be in accordance with a person's beliefs. In fact some may be the exact opposite. For example I have quite a few dictatorships that I set up just to see what would happen if I chose a different option on my issues. Because of our rules I have not brought any of them into the DSA, but in a region with no rules regarding WA categories or CR and PF ratings it would be reasonable to expect that a person would want to bring their other nations into their home region.
The United Socialist States of Grobladonia
"In Cats We Trust"
Posted Image
Charter Nation of the Democratic Socialist Assembly
Former Ambassador to the Communist International League
Minister of Domestic Affairs
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Haltari
Member Avatar
"House Chairman"
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Grobladonia
11 Jan 2014, 16:16
@ Herrebrugh and Haltari:

Okay, fair enough. The number of nations in the prohibited categories, as well as their positions within the region can be a indicator of the region's views to a point, but it should not be a make-or-break fixed percentage. It should be something more along the lines of the optional criteria: something that is considered when deciding whether to create an embassy but which can be overlooked if there are enough reasons to do so.

And here is one more way a region can wind up being artificially unsuitable for an embassy with us: puppets. Many players have more than one nation, and not all of a player's puppets will be in accordance with a person's beliefs. In fact some may be the exact opposite. For example I have quite a few dictatorships that I set up just to see what would happen if I chose a different option on my issues. Because of our rules I have not brought any of them into the DSA, but in a region with no rules regarding WA categories or CR and PF ratings it would be reasonable to expect that a person would want to bring their other nations into their home region.
Ok. I can agree to eliminating the current arbitrary cut-off that exists as long as the number of dictatorships is taken into account.
Edited by Haltari, 11 Jan 2014, 18:36.
International Affairs Office of The Constitutional Monarchy of HaltariFormer Secretary-General of the Democratic Socialist Assembly for the 9th Cabinet
Former President and World Assembly Delegate of the Democratic Socialist Assembly for the 5th, 6th, and 7th Cabinets
Former Minister of Immigration and Regional Promotion of the Democratic Socialist Assembly for the 3rd and 4th Cabinets

"National Unity and Liberty"

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ratateague
Member Avatar
"Politician"
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I share the same sentiments as Herrebrugh, but perhaps Grobladonia is right and we are going about this dumbly. Rather than treating all prohibited categories with the same weight, they could be treated incrementally. As in: one-step-removed, or Level 2, or Tier III, etc. So a region with a fair amount of mild offenders would be rated similar to one with only a handful of extreme offenders. Although, if we were to use such a system, Iron Fist Socialists would be as prohibited as Right-Wing Utopias. And one is clearly more leftist than the other.

A possible solution could be that we trim two categories from our accepted list: Corporate Bordello and Capitalist Paradise. That way, the different levels of offenders would look like this:

1: Iron Fist Socialists, Libertarian Police State, Benevolent Dictatorship, Corporate Bordello, Capitalist Paradise, Corrupt Dictatorship, Father Knows Best State, Tyranny By Majority, Authoritarian Democracy, Conservative Democracy, Moralistic Democracy

2: Compulsory Consumerist State, Free-Market Paradise, Right-Wing Utopia, Psychotic Dictatorship, Iron Fist Consumerists

3: Corporate Police State
Edited by Ratateague, 15 Jan 2014, 01:47.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply