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The Sexy Sexualty Census of the DSA; Shocked to have found that no such thread yet existed, an optional census where people escape closets.
Topic Started: 9 Dec 2013, 17:04 (2,431 Views)
Lemur Isles
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Suceavija
9 Dec 2013, 19:31
I'm curious as to how the graph from the pedophilia discussion was derived. By older and younger, are these terms tied to a specific number (like the age of majority) or are they tied to perceptions of age or maturity based upon some other metric?

For instance, if one person is 17 and attracted to other 17-year-olds, is that person a pedophile because 17 is below the age of majority, or are the terms relative based upon the age difference or disparities of someone's perceptions of physical/mental/emotional/intellectual maturity between person A and person B?
I'm not very familiar with that graph, but I imagine the midpoint would be set to whatever age you are. That would make the most sense IMO
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Diederick Antonius
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Suceavija
9 Dec 2013, 19:31
I'm curious as to how the graph from the pedophilia discussion was derived. By older and younger, are these terms tied to a specific number (like the age of majority) or are they tied to perceptions of age or maturity based upon some other metric?

For instance, if one person is 17 and attracted to other 17-year-olds, is that person a pedophile because 17 is below the age of majority, or are the terms relative based upon the age difference or disparities of someone's perceptions of physical/mental/emotional/intellectual maturity between person A and person B?
The graph was intended to describe age difference from the subject individual, basically '0' on the vertical axis would be the age of the subject. The terminology 'paedophile' isn't really applicable, because the graph's axes indicate a spectrum, not a black and white position. Basically, the greater the difference between own age and the age which is found attractive, would indicate ones attraction to more older or younger people.

The main purpose of the graph was to illustrate a point that sexuality in terms of attraction to gender, is independent of attraction in respect to levels of maturity.
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Haltari
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After looking at your responses, it seems like I misinterpreted what Suceavija was saying. :-/
Anyway, I guess my point works for a different discussion if we choose to go in that direction.
Edited by Haltari, 9 Dec 2013, 23:31.
International Affairs Office of The Constitutional Monarchy of HaltariFormer Secretary-General of the Democratic Socialist Assembly for the 9th Cabinet
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Diederick Antonius
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Haltari
9 Dec 2013, 22:56
@Suceavija Responding to your question at the very bottom, I would have to say that it is a little bit of both. It is definitely tied to perceived levels of maturity that have developed over the length of human existence. In the past, men and women were expected to take on more adult roles earlier on (like men going to war at 15-16 and women having children at 12-13), and so our current standards are still fairly similar to that even though now it is closer to 18. However, it is still based on age differences as well because even though we only stop developing in our mid-twenties, most people would probably view a 25-year-old dating a 17-year-old as taboo or even pedophilic. Lastly, I don't think anyone would consider 2 17-year-olds together as pedophiles, although you bring up a good point that that does present somewhat of a logical issue.
I think the discrepancy with the past can be explained by the high level of sophistication we have accomplished in our society. When little is expected of parents and of any working individual in society, their mental health is less important. In our modern societies, mental health is very important and we don't allow people to harm others in such a way.

In the Netherlands there is a grey area for consensual sex starting at 16, going on to 18. Kids below 16 are deemed too young for intercourse, but similar to what you have stated, no one would prosecute two consenting 15-year-olds for having sex. The grey area is mainly to protect children from predators.

Additionally, relationships with power-differences are legislated on. For example, as a Nurse I can't have a sexual relationship with anyone who receives my professional care or is in any way dependent on it. And as a leader in scouting, perhaps especially in my current position (I'm a 25 year-old working with 15-18 year-olds), relationships with youth members (any one in a youth group, even if they are 18) are not allowed. To protect children from predators, several constructions are in place to root out paedophiles and actively ban them once identified.
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Haltari
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Diederick Antonius
10 Dec 2013, 00:12
I think the discrepancy with the past can be explained by the high level of sophistication we have accomplished in our society. When little is expected of parents and of any working individual in society, their mental health is less important. In our modern societies, mental health is very important and we don't allow people to harm others in such a way.

In the Netherlands there is a grey area for consensual sex starting at 16, going on to 18. Kids below 16 are deemed too young for intercourse, but similar to what you have stated, no one would prosecute two consenting 15-year-olds for having sex. The grey area is mainly to protect children from predators.

Additionally, relationships with power-differences are legislated on. For example, as a Nurse I can't have a sexual relationship with anyone who receives my professional care or is in any way dependent on it. And as a leader in scouting, perhaps especially in my current position (I'm a 25 year-old working with 15-18 year-olds), relationships with youth members (any one in a youth group, even if they are 18) are not allowed. To protect children from predators, several constructions are in place to root out paedophiles and actively ban them once identified.
Regarding the mental health of people today, I absolutely agree with you. In general, I believe that mental health is still often ignored in many cases, although I won't go into that too much because that's entirely different topic.

The gray area that you described definitely exists all over the world, and a similar societal standard exists in the US. I understand that this gray area and power-difference legislation is often there to protect children or potential victims from predators, but these can sometimes go a bit too far. I remember hearing a story about an girl getting arrested and convicted as a sexual predator once she turned 18, while her girlfriend was either 16 or 17 (I don't remember the exact details of the story). The entire case was brought forth by her girlfriend's parents because at some point I believe the convicted girl acted as a tutor or something to the younger girl. Even though technically the older convicted girl was in a position of power, the age difference was only 1 or 2 years, so in this kind of situation, I believe the laws should not nearly be as strict. However, in general, I do agree with you.
International Affairs Office of The Constitutional Monarchy of HaltariFormer Secretary-General of the Democratic Socialist Assembly for the 9th Cabinet
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Diederick Antonius
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Your example involves a homosexual couple, I'm inclined to believe that that fact was the actual cause for parents to involve the authorities. That happens a lot and the Netherlands once had laws to specifically discriminate against gays, making the age of consent higher for homosexual relationships. The UK once had that too, now that I'm writing this...

Anyway, I think each 'grey area' case should be considered in itself - like putting labels on people's sexual orientation, stuff like this cannot be legislated with black-and-white age restrictions.
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Haltari
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Diederick Antonius
10 Dec 2013, 12:26
Your example involves a homosexual couple, I'm inclined to believe that that fact was the actual cause for parents to involve the authorities. That happens a lot and the Netherlands once had laws to specifically discriminate against gays, making the age of consent higher for homosexual relationships. The UK once had that too, now that I'm writing this...

Anyway, I think each 'grey area' case should be considered in itself - like putting labels on people's sexual orientation, stuff like this cannot be legislated with black-and-white age restrictions.
About the couple, you are absolutely right that the parents did not like that the two girls were together, leading to them calling the authorities, although that wouldn't be a crime if that gray area was implemented in this case. Anyway, I definitely agree that each situation should be looked at individually within the spectrum of the gray area rather than the present rigid laws countries have in place.
International Affairs Office of The Constitutional Monarchy of HaltariFormer Secretary-General of the Democratic Socialist Assembly for the 9th Cabinet
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Opalaland
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Suceavija
9 Dec 2013, 19:31
Considering I can make out (kissing only) with a woman on a dare and not feel dirty, ashamed, or physically ill, I wouldn't say that I'm at a 6; but it's hovering right on the border of 5 or 6, for me. It's been several years since the dare; but I wouldn't consider myself any more or less willing/able to do the same at this point :P I am not however sexually attracted to or stimulated by women. I certainly can recognize and appreciate sexuality and sexual attractiveness of women, but it's like a scientific observation only, if that makes sense; hence my score of 5.

What he said. :D Except that the kiss I shared with a lady, or two, involved less of a dare and more of a New Year's Eve celebration.
Edited by Opalaland, 11 Dec 2013, 07:28.
Laura Roslin
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The Scientific States
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I'd say I'm around a 3. I don't prefer one gender over another.
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Corujean
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I'm positively surprised that we have that great diversity, though some of you already had commented about your sexuality in other occasions.

considering that the last statistics on western countries show a varying degree of "non-heterossexual" (Kinsey >0 or >1?) people ranging from 10% to 20% of the population, it is a good sign that we have far more representation all over the spectrum :)

I think that our "open leftist" approach to politic views consequently applies to everything else.


(curiously, I'm one of the few straight, just because I've never felt attracted to other men)
Edited by Corujean, 23 Dec 2013, 14:30.

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