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| The right to own guns | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 27 2008, 11:26:06 PM (409 Views) | |
| fantanoice | Jul 4 2009, 11:32:40 AM Post #41 |
I got my eyes on you.
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I'm still against guns though... just to let you know. O.o |
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| Boss Jr. | Jul 4 2009, 03:24:42 PM Post #42 |
Moblin
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*sound of head hitting keyboard* Ok, fair enough seeing as I'm still for them. I guess at this point we're just going to have to respectfully agree to disagree *shrugs* . Good Show  ! It was a fun debate 
Edited by Boss Jr., Jul 4 2009, 03:27:33 PM.
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| balooneybob | Jul 4 2009, 07:40:41 PM Post #43 |
The Waffle Queen
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Killing with a gun is a much more distanced way to kill someone though, plus its pretty much instantaneous. You don't have time to snap out of your rage and go 'shit what am I doing?' Like they would if they were killing someone mannually. If you are physically holding a pillow over someones face, or bashing them to death or some other method of murder then the person is more involved in actively ending this persons life than if they just point and click (and a greater chance of realising their error, or leaving forensic evidence...). Plus, the victim has a greater chance of fighting back or running for their life, however with a gun - if you run they can still shoot you in the back. So the excuse that people are going to kill people whether they have guns or not, to me is bullshit. Sure they may want to kill someone - but will they succeed? People have a better chance at escaping with their lives if the act of murder involves physcial contact rather than a projectile. |
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| Boss Jr. | Jul 5 2009, 06:40:30 AM Post #44 |
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Moblin
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It's all great to analyse the logic of it but the numbers don't lie and the numbers don't see it that way. There's no doubt that you're right, but there just aren't enough murders with guns even here in the U.S. to support the argument. And even if you say that one is too many then we have to look at everything that's ever been used to commit murder. Nut just Knifes either, but cars, ash trays, candle sticks, rope...... everything. Murderers don't use logic like that otherwise they wouldn't be murderers. It's actually been proven that poisoning is just as easy and almost undetectable due to the number of people on prescription drugs. Granted this method can't be factored into the "fit of rage" scenario but it is just as effective and easier to get away with. So much so that reprots say there's no way to actually calculate the numbers accurately. There's no way to know weather or not somebody just O.D'd or if they were poisoned. So called "accidental poisonings" are a whopping 27,531 deaths. More than double the people murdered with a gun (12,791). How many of those are actually Homicide? Al lest with a gun we know and can bring the person to justice. Edited by Boss Jr., Jul 5 2009, 06:48:37 AM.
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| fantanoice | Jul 5 2009, 10:32:55 PM Post #45 |
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I got my eyes on you.
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Are you counting manslaughters with the gun-related deaths Boss Jr? |
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| Boss Jr. | Jul 6 2009, 06:04:55 AM Post #46 |
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Moblin
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Actually that's all I'm counting because that's the #1 argument against them. In fact more people commit suicide with a gun than are murdered with one (16,883 total to be exact.). If we really want to reduce Gun related deaths should we start by treating depression? Gun related deaths Suicide - 16,883 Homicide - 12,791 Unintentional - 642 Total - 30,316 Even if you total out all gun related deaths the number still pales in comparison to the number of people killed in car accidents (43,664). (Number of "car accidents" only calculated to account for unintentional vehicle related deaths.) Edited by Boss Jr., Jul 6 2009, 06:34:59 AM.
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| fantanoice | Jul 6 2009, 02:11:27 PM Post #47 |
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I got my eyes on you.
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But the thing is, even 1 death is unacceptable. =/ |
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| Boss Jr. | Jul 6 2009, 02:53:13 PM Post #48 |
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Moblin
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*contents removed on the basis that the argument was not relevant* Y'know, I've had some thime to think and I've become painfully aware that there's no winning this. I'm not changing anybody's mind regardless of whatever articles or statistics I post. None of it matters. I could go on forever on "why" and "why not" and I'd never accomplish anything with it. So.... I'm done. All of my efforts made futile I just finally realise that I'm not doing any good this way. Edited by Boss Jr., Jul 6 2009, 05:01:32 PM.
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| fantanoice | Jul 6 2009, 04:13:05 PM Post #49 |
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I got my eyes on you.
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But I was enjoying your insightful-ness. 
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| Boss Jr. | Jul 6 2009, 05:04:55 PM Post #50 |
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Moblin
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But see the problem is that I don't feel like I'm making a difference. It's not like the evidence isn't there (on the contrary, it's in my favor), it's just that I feel like I haven't accomplished anything. (I know I said I wouldn't be back, but I couldn't resist lol) |
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| fantanoice | Jul 6 2009, 06:11:26 PM Post #51 |
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I got my eyes on you.
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You seem to be the only one actually putting up a decent debate for US gun laws. =/ |
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| Boss Jr. | Jul 7 2009, 01:07:18 PM Post #52 |
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Moblin
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Yeah, but this could go on forever! I have a response to any argument you could make as do you I'm sure. And I'd still never change your mind or anybody else's. Why? Because it's a preconditioned response. Like me you were probably raised on your beliefs. That means that I'd have to completely recondition you to have a different reaction to the subject of this conversation and that could take years. Besides, I could spend the rest of my life digging up articles putting up way better arguments than mine and as long as the number of gun deaths is greater than one it'd make no difference. It probably wouldn't make a difference even if the number was zero. There are always going to be people that believe that guns are evil. There's nothing I can do or say to change that. |
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| fantanoice | Jul 7 2009, 10:24:10 PM Post #53 |
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I got my eyes on you.
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I know, but I still like the enlightenment. xD |
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| Boss Jr. | Jul 8 2009, 07:09:40 AM Post #54 |
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Moblin
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Then you're going to have to give me a better argument than "One is too many" because that's not really a fair argument and hardly justifies the anti-gun witch hunt that's been started up as a result. I mean if you really want me to argue that point I can, but it'll come off as both childish and condescending because frankly there really isn't an adult way to approach that argument. Edited by Boss Jr., Jul 8 2009, 07:10:51 AM.
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| fantanoice | Jul 8 2009, 02:05:56 PM Post #55 |
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I got my eyes on you.
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Check the first page. I have longer posts there. xD |
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| Boss Jr. | Jul 8 2009, 02:49:47 PM Post #56 |
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Moblin
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Ok, I guess it's time to clear up a few points on that 1st page. If you get a gun and load it... then place it on a table and nobody ever touches it.... it'll never shoot anyone. It's only harmful in the hands of someone who intends to do harm. In which case the intent to do harm is a thought that went through the person's mind in advance. Meaning that the intent is considered "premeditated". Ironic that in a situation like say..... a violent crime the criminal has already decided in advance weather or not they're going to kill someone. This means burglaries too. Meaning that having a gun or rather not having one isn't going to change that. The intent is still there. Also presenting hypothetical scenarios isn't evidence. There's actual evidence to support my claim. And accidental shootings are really rare, suicide isn't a good argument either. By taking guns you're not solving the problem.... you're just taking the tool. In other words people will still be depressed and suicides will not go down. Suicides by guns maybe but not suicides as a total number. People will just find a different way of doing it and then you'll want to outlaw that too until visiting the Grand Canyon is illegal and roof tops are off limits. All this anti-gun talk is nothing but propaganda! If you look at the facts then you realise that we should be doing more about depression, poverty and drugs..... not guns! Edited by Boss Jr., Jul 8 2009, 02:53:44 PM.
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| richjohnny | Jul 10 2009, 03:01:54 PM Post #57 |
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Ness Kirby
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The way americans think is stupid. "Less people will die if we ALL had a gun!" |
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| Boss Jr. | Jul 11 2009, 08:49:15 AM Post #58 |
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Moblin
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It's not stupid if there's evidence to support it. It's pretty hard to argue with that. |
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| Anthrax Soda | Jul 15 2009, 06:07:02 AM Post #59 |
Cranium Smash
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QFT!!! Hell, the perp will do it anyways weather or not he/she got a gun. He/she could do it with a knife or a bat, not just a gun. I own a gun and I'm not gonna go out and shoot people. |
 
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| Boss Jr. | Jul 15 2009, 04:06:37 PM Post #60 |
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Moblin
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I've owned several in my lifetime and I haven't shot anyone yet. I'm 22 now and that means that I'm already beyond the age demographic where I'm most likely to do so as well. Lol, looks like my worries are behind me .
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