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Is my planet's life too Earth-like?; Plus plausibility discussion
Topic Started: Jun 27 2018, 11:26 AM (500 Views)
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First of all, this is my first post outside the Member Introductions forum, so hello everyone.

This question is about something that often signs the death warrant of many a xenobiology project, which is Earthliness. I've checked out the topic What, to you, is too Earth-like? with mixed replies. That thread was helpful, but I'd like to ask now about what you think in relation to my project.

The project I'm developing right now - and I may post it on this forum - is about the life on a habitable planet called Nemo, orbiting a G-type star in the Milky Way. One particular aspect of this project I'll be focusing on is the evolution of this life, an idea that was partially inspired by looking through some of the old Sagan 4 threads.

Here is a basic synopsis of the evolution of Nemo's "tetrapods". There are several parallels with Earth's life, so I'm wondering if it's not alien enough.



Spoiler: click to toggle





If you read all that, congratulations for having an awesome attention span. This just describes the evolution of the tetrapods, by the way, as there is also an equally diverse hexapod lineage, and a "pentapod" group derived from the tetrapods.

So, these are a few of the parallels with Earth I think there are, and I want to know if you think they're okay.

Quote:
 
These new animals continued to evolve, the fins becoming more advanced and the tentacles eventually fusing into two jaws, one on top of the other. In this time, their ancestors gradually developed two clusters of photoreceptor cells that became the first true eyes. But by far the most monumental adaptation of these new animals was the presence of a rod of [Haven't decided skeleton material yet] running through their bodies.


Are these too similar to Terran fish? They have tail and pectoral fins, jaws, eyes, a notochord and gills. I suppose that these are pretty effective universally, but I'm keen to know what you think.

Quote:
 
Its skin needed to be kept moist, and indeed it spent a lot of time around freshwater, but it was a start.


Clearly, this is an amphibian analogue. I know that there's bound to be an intermediate stage between fully-aquatic and fully-terrestrial, but does it need "spicing up"?

Quote:
 
Descended from arboreal gliders, each of their limbs has evolved into a wing, and they are the planet's dominant aerial clade


Is the "hairless flying animal" an overrused stereotype in xenobiology?

Quote:
 
Like all their land predecessors, they had no teeth but bony projections of the jaws


On the jaws - they are a lot more advanced internally than ours, but superficially they look kind of Earth-like (One on top of the other, mouth inside, teeth-like structures).

I would love to hear what you think on these examples and any others you found yourselves. Again, this is my first post, so I apologize if its format, subject or premise isn't "the norm" on this site.




EDIT: By the way, I've repurposed this thread not only for discussion on the project's alienness, but its plausibility too.







Edited by Seal, Jun 29 2018, 09:13 AM.
Ever wondered what a hexapodal fire-breathing rauisuchian on steroids would look like? What about a floating colony of bioluminescent siphonophore analogues? Maybe even plants with muscular systems that shoot you with darts? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then why not take a look at my xenobiology project; Nemo?

Quotes:

"Why must we climb away to the seal-less parts of the world? - Margo Lanagan

"I'm not above acting like a seal every once in a while and waiting for the next fish, I just don't want to do it all the time." - Fred Thompson
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beingsneaky
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Seal
Jun 27 2018, 11:26 AM
Quote:
 
Descended from arboreal gliders, each of their limbs has evolved into a wing, and they are the planet's dominant aerial clade


Is the "hairless flying animal" an overrused stereotype in xenobiology?

Quote:
 
Like all their land predecessors, they had no teeth but bony projections of the jaws


On the jaws - they are a lot more advanced internally than ours, but superficially they look kind of Earth-like (One on top of the other, mouth inside, teeth-like structures)






1. perhaps you can give these flying animals (and possible their relatives) "fractal fur" kinda similar to this fractal tree i can imagine this fractal fur to be used similar to how birds use their feathers (I.E. for both flight and keeping themselves warm)

Posted Image

2.maybe you can give your aliens 2 pairs of jaws (kinda similar to how some fish (like the moray eel) has a second pair a second pair of jaws) with the outer jaw being used to protect the inner jaw and the inner jaw being used for eating
Edited by beingsneaky, Jun 27 2018, 12:10 PM.
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beingsneaky
Jun 27 2018, 11:59 AM
Seal
Jun 27 2018, 11:26 AM
Quote:
 
Descended from arboreal gliders, each of their limbs has evolved into a wing, and they are the planet's dominant aerial clade


Is the "hairless flying animal" an overrused stereotype in xenobiology?

Quote:
 
Like all their land predecessors, they had no teeth but bony projections of the jaws


On the jaws - they are a lot more advanced internally than ours, but superficially they look kind of Earth-like (One on top of the other, mouth inside, teeth-like structures)


1. perhaps you can give these flying animals (and possible their relatives) "fractal fur" kinda similar to this fractal tree i can imagine this fractal fur to be used similar to how birds use their feathers (I.E. for both flight and keeping themselves warm)

2.maybe you can give your aliens 2 pairs of jaws (kinda similar to how some fish (like the moray eel) has a second pair a second pair jaws with the outer jaw being used to protect the inner jaw and the inner jaw being used for eating

Number 1 is an excellent idea, but I'm not sure if many of my large animals will have any filamentous integument of a kind, since the planet's average climate is quite hot (16.2 degrees Centigrade). The fact that they're hairless alone isn't really what I considered to be overused, but rather their overall, almost reptilian appearance that is similar to ones in other projects.

I like the sound of Number 2, and I think I'll definitely use that one. I had known about pharyngeal jaws beforehand (Muraenids are my favourite type of fish), but I never thought of using such a structure in the project.

Thank you for contributing!

Ever wondered what a hexapodal fire-breathing rauisuchian on steroids would look like? What about a floating colony of bioluminescent siphonophore analogues? Maybe even plants with muscular systems that shoot you with darts? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then why not take a look at my xenobiology project; Nemo?

Quotes:

"Why must we climb away to the seal-less parts of the world? - Margo Lanagan

"I'm not above acting like a seal every once in a while and waiting for the next fish, I just don't want to do it all the time." - Fred Thompson
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Setaceous Cetacean
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It's awesome that you're thinking about this kind of stuff. Creating plausible yet alien organisms is always very challenging. What I would recommend is giving their ancestors some bizarre anatomical quirk that shapes their evolutionary path and pushes it in a new direction.

The first example that comes to my mind is Semicylinder's Cinder (found in the Habitable Zone). The dominant "vertebrates" on Cinder have extreme sexual dimorphism, with the males being plantlike and the females being mobile and like animals. This trait has led to some very fascinating and bizarre adaptations amongst the creatures. CM Kosemen's Snaiad also has this; the dominant megafauna have two heads (one for feeding and one for sensory and reproduction). This has led to some vast differences between them and Earth's tetrapods.

Another thing I'd recommend is changing up your planet. An Earthlike planet's creatures will undoubtedly mirror the life of Earth to a certain extent. Try changing up the gravity or atmospheric density. Maybe make it a desert planet, or an eyeball world. Unique selective pressures come into play on these disparate settings, and your creatures will be different from Earth's, for they evolved in a different environment.

As for bone materials, there's lots you can do. In other projects, I've seen copper, chitin, keratin, and even wood, so there's no shortage of stuff that can be used. Just make sure you do some research on how the properties of the bone will be different.

Again, it is really hard to find that balance between suspension of disbelief and plausibility. This is something that I too have struggled with, and I could go on for hours about this topic. Since I don't want to flood this topic with tales from my own experiences, feel free to PM me if you have any desire to discuss this further with me. If not, then I wish you luck with your world, and I look forward to seeing more from you.
Edited by Setaceous Cetacean, Jun 27 2018, 03:22 PM.
If you like balloons, the color red, or mixotrophic plants derived from photosynthetic vertebrate-analogues, then check out my xenobiology project Solais

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beingsneaky
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i have some other questions about your creatures

how do they reproduce

how do they give birth

what parts of the light spectrum can they see
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"Young ciliaurrg grow on the rear of the parent and look like small slurrg." - ZoologicalBotanist

active projects: R.T.K.L(Rotifer Tardigrade Kinorhyncha Loriciferans)
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Icthyander
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I don't think you have any real problems with your creatures being too Earth-like, especially with your general descriptions. There are two cases of creatures becoming Earth-like that I am not convinced are warranted. You start with the original Marifarcimena, which is rather alien, and then turn it into a fish-like form. I think generally a convergent fish-shape is plausible, but your description of tentacles fusing into jaws strikes me as odd. Tentacles could certainly come to form come sort of mouth, but I doubt you'd end up with a generic jaw built oriented like what we have. My other problem is with the appearance of tetrapods. Granted, I don't know any more about the specifics of their body, but the notion that a limb/tail would just double or split through gradual evolution is a little hard for me to swallow. It seems to me to mainly be in service of making the creatures tetrapods, but while being a tetrapod is probably more advantageous than a tripod, I'd imagine we'd just see them optimize their tripodal gait.

Seal
Jun 27 2018, 11:26 AM
Its skin needed to be kept moist, and indeed it spent a lot of time around freshwater, but it was a start.

Clearly, this is an amphibian analogue. I know that there's bound to be an intermediate stage between fully-aquatic and fully-terrestrial, but does it need "spicing up"?

An amphibious stage would make sense, but I'm not convinced that this transitional organism would need to have moist skin. To my understanding, in modern lissamphibians, this allows them to breathe through their skin to complement or replace entirely an inefficient lung, but depending on how your amphibian gets air this may not be necessary.

Seal
Jun 27 2018, 11:26 AM
Descended from arboreal gliders, each of their limbs has evolved into a wing, and they are the planet's dominant aerial clade

Generally speaking looking back at the fossil record, it would seem flying animals do not evolve from gliding animals.
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Try changing up the gravity or atmospheric density.


Yeah, I forgot to mention I did that. The atmosphere has 1.5 times more oxygen than Earth, which allows for some interesting adaptations I've planned. Thanks for all your other brilliant suggestions, I'll certainly look into a lot of those.

Quote:
 
how do they reproduce

how do they give birth

what parts of the light spectrum can they see


Their reproductive organs are in their chest, and the males' uncoil from an internal cavity when they're going to mate.

The female gives birth through the chest as well, and many species kneel like a grazing warthog so they can defend the emerging baby with their jaws, which are their most powerful defenses.

I haven't figured out sight yet, so right now it's pretty much just open for suggestions.

Quote:
 
Generally speaking looking back at the fossil record, it would seem flying animals do not evolve from gliding animals.


Really? But I thought...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

I know that the pterosaur ancestor is speculative, but I've seen a lot of depictions of them as gliders.

Quote:
 
Tentacles could certainly come to form come sort of mouth, but I doubt you'd end up with a generic jaw built oriented like what we have.


Well, thanks to some help from beingsneaky and a bit of my own furthering of the idea, I've now got something a little more alien. Basically, what we would recognize as the animals' mouth is part of the skull, with bony serrations for teeth, but their true jaws are inside their mouth. These are made of cartilage, so the superficial jaw's job is to protect them, but when the mouth opens, the internal jaw extends (Kind of like a goblin shark, but inside another mouth) and takes a bite. The external jaws then close, retracting the inner one but biting themselves. In short, they've got two sets of jaws, one inside the other, and they take turns to bite when eating.

Quote:
 
Granted, I don't know any more about the specifics of their body, but the notion that a limb/tail would just double or split through gradual evolution is a little hard for me to swallow. It seems to me to mainly be in service of making the creatures tetrapods, but while being a tetrapod is probably more advantageous than a tripod, I'd imagine we'd just see them optimize their tripodal gait.


Yeah, this is something I'll definitely be checking out in my next topic, about the project's plausibility. I could imagine an intermediate stage where the back leg is shaped like a two-pronged fork, which would give them a lot more stability, but the complete splitting of the back leg would really help to spread their weight evenly.

Anyway, thank you everyone for your great contributions, I really appreciate it.

Ever wondered what a hexapodal fire-breathing rauisuchian on steroids would look like? What about a floating colony of bioluminescent siphonophore analogues? Maybe even plants with muscular systems that shoot you with darts? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then why not take a look at my xenobiology project; Nemo?

Quotes:

"Why must we climb away to the seal-less parts of the world? - Margo Lanagan

"I'm not above acting like a seal every once in a while and waiting for the next fish, I just don't want to do it all the time." - Fred Thompson
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Sceynyos-yos
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Passive gliding is disputed to have ever evolved into flying. For bats, it's argued they flapped while falling straight down. For bird, there's the hypothesis of WAIR(wing-assisted inclination running). For pterosaurs, it's believed they jumped like kangaroos and additional lift helped their jump distance. Insects' origin of flight is still more or less of a mystery.

Not that I entirely subscribe to the notion that gliding can't evolve to flying, or hasn't on Earth.
Edited by Sceynyos-yos, Jun 28 2018, 09:35 AM.
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Icthyander
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I got ninja'd by Scey on this, but since I go into a bit more detail here's the full thing I wrote:

Seal
Jun 28 2018, 04:57 AM
Quote:
 
Generally speaking looking back at the fossil record, it would seem flying animals do not evolve from gliding animals.


Really? But I thought...

Microraptor snip.

I'd hesitate to use Microraptor as a model for early flight in general, considering how separated in time it was from the appearance of flight, but even then there are problems with treating it as a glider. There is evidence to suggesting that Microraptor may have been at least partially terrestrial. Indeed, cursoriality is seen in a wide variety of winged paravians, and a lot of research now focuses on wings instead being used in jumping and flap running. For a couple examples of papers, look at this and this.

Seal
Jun 28 2018, 04:57 AM
Protobat snip.

This is a purely speculative reconstruction of a hypothetical protobat that was made in 1977, so I wouldn't really treat it as any hard evidence.

I know this may sound like semantics, but it's been suggested that bats instead evolved to flutter rather than to truly glide, i.e. to slow and control a fall from a height by flapping, and as far as I know this hasn't been greatly challenged. I'm curious if there might be any relationship between parachuting and fluttering, but I don't want to speculate on my own. Unfortunately, it seems that the two main papers[1] aren't readily available online.

Seal
Jun 28 2018, 04:57 AM
Protopterosaurus snip.

I know that the pterosaur ancestor is speculative, but I've seen a lot of depictions of them as gliders.

Frankly, the notion that flight arises from gliding has been held as simple common sense for a very long time, and it's no surprise that these sorts of hypothetical are everywhere. We have unfortunately never found any sort of pterosaur transitional fossil, and can only guess how flight may have arisen. I've heard people hypothesize that, since some of the creatures found to be most closely related to pterosaurs (like Scleromochlus) seem to have been hoppers, the wings arose as jump boosters, but we just don't know. Gliding is incredibly common, arising again and again, with little overarching compelling reason for why more gliding creatures would not transition to some form of flight, but maybe pterosaurs really did evolve from gliders, and they had some X-factor that let them transition when all the other gliders couldn't. The issue is definitely a lot more complex than thought in the past.


[1] Phylogenetic Distribution of ecological traits in the origin and early evolution of bats (2011) and Did bat ancestors glide? A phylogenetic approach (2013)
Edited by Icthyander, Jun 28 2018, 09:56 AM.
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Passive gliding is disputed to have ever evolved into flying. For bats, it's argued they flapped while falling straight down. For bird, there's the hypothesis of WAIR(wing-assisted inclination running). For pterosaurs, it's believed they jumped like kangaroos and additional lift helped their jump distance. Insects' origin of flight is still more or less of a mystery.

Not that I entirely subscribe to the notion that gliding can't evolve to flying, or hasn't on Earth.


Quote:
 
Frankly, the notion that flight arises from gliding has been held as simple common sense for a very long time, and it's no surprise that these sorts of hypothetical are everywhere. We have unfortunately never found any sort of pterosaur transitional fossil, and can only guess how flight may have arisen. I've heard people hypothesize that, since some of the creatures found to be most closely related to pterosaurs (like Scleromochlus) seem to have been hoppers, the wings arose as jump boosters, but we just don't know. Gliding is incredibly common, arising again and again, with little overarching compelling reason for why more gliding creatures would not transition to some form of flight, but maybe pterosaurs really did evolve from gliders, and they had some X-factor that let them transition when all the other gliders couldn't. The issue is definitely a lot more complex than thought in the past.


Thank you both for your information, consider the origin of my aliens' flight to be undecided for now. The nature of their evolution isn't really an important part of the project, so it doesn't really matter at the moment. I'll decide when I start fleshing out that group.





Ever wondered what a hexapodal fire-breathing rauisuchian on steroids would look like? What about a floating colony of bioluminescent siphonophore analogues? Maybe even plants with muscular systems that shoot you with darts? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then why not take a look at my xenobiology project; Nemo?

Quotes:

"Why must we climb away to the seal-less parts of the world? - Margo Lanagan

"I'm not above acting like a seal every once in a while and waiting for the next fish, I just don't want to do it all the time." - Fred Thompson
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Rodlox
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Seal
Jun 28 2018, 04:57 AM
Quote:
 
Tentacles could certainly come to form come sort of mouth, but I doubt you'd end up with a generic jaw built oriented like what we have.


Well, thanks to some help from beingsneaky and a bit of my own furthering of the idea, I've now got something a little more alien. Basically, what we would recognize as the animals' mouth is part of the skull, with bony serrations for teeth, but their true jaws are inside their mouth. These are made of cartilage, so the superficial jaw's job is to protect them, but when the mouth opens, the internal jaw extends (Kind of like a goblin shark, but inside another mouth) and takes a bite. The external jaws then close, retracting the inner one but biting themselves. In short, they've got two sets of jaws, one inside the other, and they take turns to bite when eating.
hm...so, like moray eels? (lots of fish chew with their throat jaws - morays actually hunt with theirs)


been thinking about your original statement, and something occurred to me: we've never seen anything like before in spec. projects.

you said that the tentacles fused together to form jaws, and originally i wondered if some lineages had, say, four tentacles forming the upper jaw & five in the lower jaw, while others were six and two, respectively......and then I realized that the tentacles->jaws would be outside of the head.

jaws like this would very likely be superior to our own jaws at certain jobs, while would be cobbled by evolution to match our own in other jobs.



Quote:
 
Quote:
 
Granted, I don't know any more about the specifics of their body, but the notion that a limb/tail would just double or split through gradual evolution is a little hard for me to swallow. It seems to me to mainly be in service of making the creatures tetrapods, but while being a tetrapod is probably more advantageous than a tripod, I'd imagine we'd just see them optimize their tripodal gait.


Yeah, this is something I'll definitely be checking out in my next topic, about the project's plausibility. I could imagine an intermediate stage where the back leg is shaped like a two-pronged fork, which would give them a lot more stability, but the complete splitting of the back leg would really help to spread their weight evenly.


why split the leg? just broaden the rear foot.

also, no need to start a new topic about plausibility - just put it in this thread.
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Jun 28 2018, 11:06 AM


been thinking about your original statement, and something occurred to me: we've never seen anything like before in spec. projects.

you said that the tentacles fused together to form jaws, and then I realized that the tentacles->jaws would be outside of the head.

jaws like this would very likely be superior to our own jaws at certain jobs, while would be cobbled by evolution to match our own in other jobs.


Hmmm, I forgot about that whole thing with the jaws being outside the head. What I was planning to do was for the skull to extend into the ex-tentacle part of the mouth to make it more stable, and then eventually, because... evolution, the tentacles were "shed" and replaced by just a layer of flesh around the jaws section of the skull. The main reason why I'd rather this way is that a distinguishing feature of the Nemoan tetrapods are their bony "beaks" instead of teeth, which look kind of like one of Snaiad's Kahydronts' first head jaws.

Quote:
 
why split the leg? just broaden the rear foot.


What about this: a group of small tripeds start evolving to improve their agility, so they eventually become tetrapods (Two back legs would be much better for steering without falling during a high-speed chase). These guys live underground in burrows and survive the triped extinction, thus becoming, in time, the new dominant land animals.
Ever wondered what a hexapodal fire-breathing rauisuchian on steroids would look like? What about a floating colony of bioluminescent siphonophore analogues? Maybe even plants with muscular systems that shoot you with darts? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then why not take a look at my xenobiology project; Nemo?

Quotes:

"Why must we climb away to the seal-less parts of the world? - Margo Lanagan

"I'm not above acting like a seal every once in a while and waiting for the next fish, I just don't want to do it all the time." - Fred Thompson
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peashyjah
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Jun 28 2018, 12:39 PM
Rodlox
Jun 28 2018, 11:06 AM


been thinking about your original statement, and something occurred to me: we've never seen anything like before in spec. projects.

you said that the tentacles fused together to form jaws, and then I realized that the tentacles->jaws would be outside of the head.

jaws like this would very likely be superior to our own jaws at certain jobs, while would be cobbled by evolution to match our own in other jobs.


Hmmm, I forgot about that whole thing with the jaws being outside the head. What I was planning to do was for the skull to extend into the ex-tentacle part of the mouth to make it more stable, and then eventually, because... evolution, the tentacles were "shed" and replaced by just a layer of flesh around the jaws section of the skull. The main reason why I'd rather this way is that a distinguishing feature of the Nemoan tetrapods are their bony "beaks" instead of teeth, which look kind of like one of Snaiad's Kahydronts' first head jaws.

Quote:
 
why split the leg? just broaden the rear foot.


What about this: a group of small tripeds start evolving to improve their agility, so they eventually become tetrapods (Two back legs would be much better for steering without falling during a high-speed chase). These guys live underground in burrows and survive the triped extinction, thus becoming, in time, the new dominant land animals.
Jaws that aren't located on the head? Wouldn't they make a second "mouth" just like the second head of Snaiad's native animals?
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The Americas (where in 58 million years from now in the future North and South America has both become isolated island continents)



All Expansions (my attempt at expanding the universe of All Tomorrows by Nemo Ramjet aka C.M. Kosemen, started June 6, 2018)
Anthropozoic (my attempt at expanding the universe of Man After Man and also a re-imagining of it, coming 2019 or 2020)
New Cenozoica (my attempt at expanding the universe of The New Dinosaurs and also a re-imagining of it, also coming 2019 or 2020)
All Alternatives or All Changes (a re-telling of All Tomorrows but with some minor and major "changes", coming June 10, 2018)
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Jun 27 2018, 03:22 PM
Another thing I'd recommend is changing up your planet. An Earthlike planet's creatures will undoubtedly mirror the life of Earth to a certain extent. Try changing up the gravity or atmospheric density. Maybe make it a desert planet, or an eyeball world. Unique selective pressures come into play on these disparate settings, and your creatures will be different from Earth's, for they evolved in a different environment.
I don't really think having an Earth-like planet is that much of an issue. No matter how Earth-like a planet may be, its life forms are still a product of an entirely separate evolutionary history than Earth's life, and thus could still end up looking radically different. In a way, speculating on alien life forms is kinda like alternate evolution taken to its greatest extreme- a divergence point from the very beginnings of life.

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Really? But I thought...

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While Microraptor was once thought to be a glider, later studies showed it was in fact capable of powered flight.

Sceynyos-yos
 
Insects' origin of flight is still more or less of a mystery.
There is a good hypothesis arguing that insect wings actually began as gills that evolved into flapping structures that helped insects move along water surfaces and later became capable of granting them the power of flight. It is noteworthy that the most primitive flying insect groups- mayflies and dragonflies and their kin- live near water and still have aquatic nymphs.
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Rodlox
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Jun 28 2018, 12:39 PM
Rodlox
Jun 28 2018, 11:06 AM


been thinking about your original statement, and something occurred to me: we've never seen anything like before in spec. projects.

you said that the tentacles fused together to form jaws, and then I realized that the tentacles->jaws would be outside of the head.

jaws like this would very likely be superior to our own jaws at certain jobs, while would be cobbled by evolution to match our own in other jobs.


Hmmm, I forgot about that whole thing with the jaws being outside the head. What I was planning to do was for the skull to extend into the ex-tentacle part of the mouth to make it more stable, and then eventually, because... evolution, the tentacles were "shed" and replaced by just a layer of flesh around the jaws section of the skull. The main reason why I'd rather this way is that a distinguishing feature of the Nemoan tetrapods are their bony "beaks" instead of teeth, which look kind of like one of Snaiad's Kahydronts' first head jaws.

well its certainly possible for a lineage or two to bring the tentacle jaws into the head...sharks demonstrate that its possible to have more than one way of attaching the mouth to the skull, after all.


Quote:
 

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why split the leg? just broaden the rear foot.


What about this: a group of small tripeds start evolving to improve their agility, so they eventually become tetrapods (Two back legs would be much better for steering without falling during a high-speed chase). These guys live underground in burrows and survive the triped extinction, thus becoming, in time, the new dominant land animals.


two back legs may be better for stability - but six would be better for stable bodies...yet Earth tetrapods never developed them. there are some things legs just can't do, for better or worse.
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Parts of the Cluster Worlds:
"Marsupialless Australia" (what-if) & "Out on a Branch" (future evolution) & "The Earth under a still sun" (WIP)
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