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Your opinions on lizard spec?
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Topic Started: Jun 24 2018, 07:17 AM (240 Views)
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TAXESbutNano
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Jun 24 2018, 07:17 AM
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I'm going back to basics.
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Hiya guys, Nano here.
A common thing with lizards and whatnot is them evolving into the next 'big thing'- developing erect limbs, warm blood and so on and so forth.
However, they're one of the few groups of large tetrapods that have never produced an animal with such features conventionally considered necessary to take over the planet. Birds and mammals already have those features, and crocodylomorphs had them in the past, but not even Megalania had this sort of ability.
Perhaps there's some sort of limitation on them? Or perhaps they simply haven't reached a point in evolutionary history where it's likely?
Food for thought- just thought I'd throw it out.
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Chuditch
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Jun 24 2018, 07:44 AM
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Well, mosasaurs are lizards and a recent study has shown that they were likely endothermic, so they can develop a warm-blooded metabolism. And the ancestors of archosaurs and mammals all had sprawling limbs (even monotremes still have a rather reptilian gait), so I don't see what's restricting lizards from developing erect limbs. I'm no expert on lizard anatomy though so perhaps there's a deeper reason for their sprawling gait I'm unaware of. But as far as I know, there's nothing stopping them changing their gait. I don't see them in a position to became the next 'big thing' in their current form, with all those mammals and birds and crocodilians roaming about that are currently better adapted for megafaunal niches. But after a massive extinction somewhere in the distant future, who knows. I can definitely see them still being successful in their current niches well into the future though. Nothing is better at being a lizard than a lizard.
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Scrublord
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Jun 24 2018, 08:55 AM
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Dude, one word: Mosasaurs.
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Yiqi15
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Jun 24 2018, 09:27 AM
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Caesio16
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Jun 24 2018, 11:10 AM
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I dont think it nessecsery fo lizards to become endothermic to become the dominat megafauna in the far futuree (at least of the warmer parts of the world). Although an upright posture would certainly be an advantage in some situatiouns (as would endothermy) lizards could become the the dominant megafuanal group with out it. I think it s somewhat anthroponcentic to thenk that you have to be lik a mammal (and there for like a human) to be domimant of the Eartg (or any othr earthlike planet). Look atthe Permain.
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CaledonianWarrior96
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Jun 24 2018, 11:59 AM
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Depends on the lizard group I guess. Monitors are suggested to be the most likely big thing in terms of what lizard group will be it. They have a unique cardiovascular and respiratory system that could develop into endothermy (look at mosasaurs, they are relatives), are generally one of the smartest lizards known and range from body sizes of under a metre to six to seven metres that Megalanian probably reached (15 metres if you want to include mosasaurs). As long as mammals, birds and crocodilians are about then monitors might have some struggles there but if you had to pick a group of lizards that could perform the best then monitors are your best bet
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IIGSY
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Jun 24 2018, 05:37 PM
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I don't think modern crocodilians are much of a limit to lizards become dominant because they are all highly specialized, sprawling ectotherms.
If it came down to monitors vs crocodilians, I'd pick monitors.
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Quotes "Arthropod respiratory systems aren't really "inefficient", they're just better suited to their body size. It would be quite inefficient for a tiny creature that can easily get all the oxygen it needs through passive diffusion to have a respiratory system that wastes energy on muscles that pump air into sacs. (Hence why lungless salamanders, uniquely miniscule and hyperabundant tetrapods, have ditched their lungs in favor of breathing with their skin and buccal mucous membranes.) But large, active insects already use muscles to pump air in and out of their spiracles, and I don't see why their tracheae couldn't develop pseudo- lungs if other conditions pressured them to grow larger."-HangingTheif
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Tartarus
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Jun 24 2018, 07:37 PM
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- Caesio16
- Jun 24 2018, 11:10 AM
I dont think it nessecsery fo lizards to become endothermic to become the dominat megafauna in the far futuree (at least of the warmer parts of the world). Although an upright posture would certainly be an advantage in some situatiouns (as would endothermy) lizards could become the the dominant megafuanal group with out it. I think it s somewhat anthroponcentic to thenk that you have to be lik a mammal (and there for like a human) to be domimant of the Eartg (or any othr earthlike planet). Look atthe Permain. The reasons for endothermy being seen as an ideal trait for "dominant megafauna" is not so much about being "like a mammal" but more about the types of advantages it brings. Endothermy allows a creature to produce more energy and also allows it to be active in a wider range of temperatures. Endotherms also seem to evolve at a somewhat faster rate than ectotherms. When it comes to filling megafaunal niches, being an endotherm does give one a certain edge over ectotherms.
Note that this does not necessarily mean its impossible for ectotherms to be "dominant megafauna". Such a thing could well happen in the right circumstances and there may even be circumstances where the megafauna in question is better off as ectotherms (e.g. in resource poor environments where an ectotherm's lower food requirements would give it an advantage over any endotherm). But in most cases, endothermy would be the better option.
As for your comment on the Permian, it should be noted that most of the synapsids that comprised that time's "dominant megafauna" were endotherms.
Edited by Tartarus, Jun 24 2018, 07:38 PM.
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WaterWitch
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Jun 24 2018, 07:59 PM
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- IIGSY
- Jun 24 2018, 05:37 PM
I don't think modern crocodilians are much of a limit to lizards become dominant because they are all highly specialized, sprawling ectotherms.
If it came down to monitors vs crocodilians, I'd pick monitors. we have seen some fairly interesting things with crocodilians and their close relatives before, so they might have a chance. Mekosuchines come to mind personally.
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IIGSY
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Jun 24 2018, 08:15 PM
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- WaterWitch
- Jun 24 2018, 07:59 PM
- IIGSY
- Jun 24 2018, 05:37 PM
I don't think modern crocodilians are much of a limit to lizards become dominant because they are all highly specialized, sprawling ectotherms.
If it came down to monitors vs crocodilians, I'd pick monitors.
we have seen some fairly interesting things with crocodilians and their close relatives before, so they might have a chance. Mekosuchines come to mind personally. Yeah, but in the present day, I think varanids have a much better starting place than crocodilians
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod
ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)
Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.
Quotes "Arthropod respiratory systems aren't really "inefficient", they're just better suited to their body size. It would be quite inefficient for a tiny creature that can easily get all the oxygen it needs through passive diffusion to have a respiratory system that wastes energy on muscles that pump air into sacs. (Hence why lungless salamanders, uniquely miniscule and hyperabundant tetrapods, have ditched their lungs in favor of breathing with their skin and buccal mucous membranes.) But large, active insects already use muscles to pump air in and out of their spiracles, and I don't see why their tracheae couldn't develop pseudo- lungs if other conditions pressured them to grow larger."-HangingTheif
"Considering the lifespans of modern non- insect arthropods (decade-old old millipedes, 50 year old tarantulas, 100+ year old lobsters) I wouldn't be surprised if Arthropleura had a lifespan exceeding that of a large testudine"-HangingTheif
"Humans have a tribal mindset and it's not alien for tribes to war on each other. I mean, look at the atrocities chimpanzee tribes do to each other. Most of people's groupings and big conflicts in history are directly or obliquely manifestations of this tribal mindset."-Sceynyos-yis
"He's the leader of the bunch You know his Coconut Gun is finally back to fire in spurts. His Coconut Gun Can make you smile If he shoots ya it's firing in spurts. His Coconut Gun Is bigger, faster, stronger too! He's the gun member of the Coconut Crew! HUH!
C.G.! Coconut Gun! C.G.! Co-Coconut Gun! Shoot yourself with a Coconut Gun! HUH!"-Kamineigh
"RIP, rest in Peytoia."-Little
"In Summary: Piss on Lovecraft's racist grave by making lewds of Cthulhu and Nyarlathotep.
Then eat arby's and embrace the void."-Kamineigh
"Dougal Dixon rule 34."-Sayornis
Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups
In honor of the greatest clade of all time
More pictures
Other cool things
All African countries can fit into Brazil
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