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Is there any cryptids that could be real?; Which cryptids could be real?
Topic Started: Feb 8 2018, 08:16 PM (4,371 Views)
Rodlox
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Dragonthunders
Feb 16 2018, 10:09 AM

to be fair, even deer skeletons decompose quickly, what with bone-gnawing rodents and insect larvae.
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Dragonthunders
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I'm not saying that most of the remains can't disappear without a trace, but it seems too convenient that there are no records in places where anyone can find remains of all known species of large mammals of America, including humans
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LittleLazyLass
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Quote:
 
The Platypus was never a cryptid. Infact, as soon as it was encountered by the europeans, a pelt was sent back home, where the scientists considered it a hoax. It was basically the antithesis of a cryptid.
So there were some accounts and a bit of physical evidence, eye-witnesses who believed it, but it was shunned by the scientific community. How does this not count? De Loys' Ape, for example, is based off one account and a photograph widely considered a hoax (which is most definitely is). Does it not count as a cryptid? Where in the process is the designation lost here?
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LittleLazyLass
Feb 16 2018, 11:35 AM
Quote:
 
The Platypus was never a cryptid. Infact, as soon as it was encountered by the europeans, a pelt was sent back home, where the scientists considered it a hoax. It was basically the antithesis of a cryptid.
So there were some accounts and a bit of physical evidence, eye-witnesses who believed it, but it was shunned by the scientific community. How does this not count? De Loys' Ape, for example, is based off one account and a photograph widely considered a hoax (which is most definitely is). Does it not count as a cryptid? Where in the process is the designation lost here?
The platypus was never searched. It was found and shown and disregarded. (Your definitions may vary but in my opinion) Cryptids are creatures that are actively searched for, have no definite evidence proving their existence and are disregarded by the majority due to lack of evidence, and not (only) due to their absurdity.

As I said, your definitions may vary, but if we include creatures that aren't even actively searched for as cryptids this whole conversation loses its meaning due to the scope. We'd basically talk about everything and nothing.
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LittleLazyLass
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Having to be searched for seems, to me, incredibly arbitrary and silly to use as a definition, and I can't say I usually if ever see it invoked in the definition. Going back to Wikipedia:

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The Oxford English Dictionary defines the noun cryptid as "an animal whose existence or survival to the present day is disputed or unsubstantiated; any animal of interest to a cryptozoologist".

The case of the Platypus falls entirely within this (before it's acceptance, of course), and if it doesn't, than De Loys' Ape doesn't either. I feel if your definition excludes something that's very obviously a cryptid like that, it's a fairly dysfunctional one.
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Dragonthunders
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I think you should consider that the term as everything behind cryptozoology was created as of the middle of the 20th century and the first encounters were at the end of the 18th century, so it would not apply the same situation.
We also talk about an era where research related to zoology was beginning, with few or vague knowledge of animal diversity so that an animal of such characteristics would be quickly considered a hoax until live specimens were found.



Edit: I was writing at the same time that you published so I didn't notice the last posts
Edited by Dragonthunders, Feb 16 2018, 12:21 PM.
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Flisch
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LittleLazyLass
Feb 16 2018, 12:16 PM
Having to be searched for seems, to me, incredibly arbitrary and silly to use as a definition, and I can't say I usually if ever see it invoked in the definition. Going back to Wikipedia:

Quote:
 
The Oxford English Dictionary defines the noun cryptid as "an animal whose existence or survival to the present day is disputed or unsubstantiated; any animal of interest to a cryptozoologist".

The case of the Platypus falls entirely within this (before it's acceptance, of course), and if it doesn't, than De Loys' Ape doesn't either. I feel if your definition excludes something that's very obviously a cryptid like that, it's a fairly dysfunctional one.
So, in your eyes, all I have to do is claim an animal exists for it to become a cryptid? No other conditions?

Well in that case we have successfully rendered the word completely and utterly meaningless.
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LittleLazyLass
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I don't know what the best definition would be, but whatever it is, it should include the case of the platypus.
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Rodlox
Feb 16 2018, 03:53 AM
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The whole "shy, wary, sapient bigfoot" idea is ridiculous. It assumes that the entire race would have a single hivemind that goes against revealing themselves to humans. In reality, individuals have their own thoughts. That not a single bigfoot, even a pariah, has revealed itself to humanity is a huge red flag.
except that, according to eyewitness statements, some of the bigfoots do make contact - walk up to windows and look in on people, throw rocks at their human neighbors, walk around cars that have people in them.

and then those eyewitness statements are dismissed because nobody in those situations thought "okay, gotta kill one of those things on the other side of my car (and hope the others don't either take the body or kill me or both) ."
Oh really! Wow, so surely one of these people must have gotten some real evidence right? I mean, you know, since a huge proportion of the US population has on-hand a high-quality camera it would be ludicrous to believe these people didn't take footage of and confirm a huge scientific discovery!

Oh... wait... they haven't? Strange considering the species supposedly sometimes goes up to cars and gets within visual range of humans with regular eyewitness accounts.

On the subject of the platypus, I feel like the term cryptid shouldn't really apply to stuff that was discovered from such an old era in which much of the world was left unexplored. If so, then every animal that wasn't immediately killed then brought to someone who could confirm the existence upon discovery of a species was a cryptid.
Imo cryptids refer to stuff that is elusive enough that it remains undiscovered even in the recent times where most of the world has been colonized and much of the earth investigated (cira 20th century). Although that opinion is just my opinion, not based on anything other people have said.
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I actually agree with you. The platypus was never a mythical or folkloric figure prior to its discovery, nor was it supported solely by unconfirmed sightings for years before the first confirmed sighting established it to be real. It was simply a newly-discovered animal species, albeit one that was met with more skepticism than most.
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Feb 16 2018, 10:09 AM
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As an additional note, there's actually been a lot of talk about linking Bigfoot with what are known as the Missing 411 cases, a rash of disappearances with the people in question vanishing without a trace in woodlands areas with only their clothes being found, folded and cleaned like nothing ever happened.

You know, we need a bit of source of that, it feels like we're just telling anecdotes and that's where we will lose the "real" part of this conversations for not checking the accuracy of cases.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeT2FG88PIM

Here ya go. Apologies for not posting this sooner.

As for the platypus, I really don't see why it's not a former cryptid. It was an animal whose existence was debated by the scientific community. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

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On the subject of the platypus, I feel like the term cryptid shouldn't really apply to stuff that was discovered from such an old era in which much of the world was left unexplored. If so, then every animal that wasn't immediately killed then brought to someone who could confirm the existence upon discovery of a species was a cryptid.

So, by that logic, then gorillas, African peafowl, giant squid, and okapis were never cryptids because we didn't know every inch of their habitat? I.... don't get it.
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Feb 16 2018, 03:07 PM


Quote:
 
On the subject of the platypus, I feel like the term cryptid shouldn't really apply to stuff that was discovered from such an old era in which much of the world was left unexplored. If so, then every animal that wasn't immediately killed then brought to someone who could confirm the existence upon discovery of a species was a cryptid.

So, by that logic, then gorillas, African peafowl, giant squid, and okapis were never cryptids because we didn't know every inch of their habitat? I.... don't get it.
I mean... they aren't? I don't get what you're saying

The point was not "we have investigated every inch of the earth, therefore nothing before that was a cryptid"
I'm saying that the connotations brought by the term "cryptid" shouldn't really apply to animals discovered during the are of colonisation and exploration of areas imo, the connotations are different from cryptid and animal discovered during the age of exploration.

(Also, like, the aborigines of Australia knew what a platypus was well before English naturalists, it wasn't a cryptid).
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Feb 16 2018, 03:12 PM
(Also, like, the aborigines of Australia knew what a platypus was well before English naturalists, it wasn't a cryptid).
Right, we all forgot about those.
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LittleLazyLass
Feb 16 2018, 01:18 PM
I don't know what the best definition would be, but whatever it is, it should include the case of the platypus.
platypi were hard to find, even when they were initially known to Europeans. the platypus egg was definitely cryptic - first nobody believed in it (no matter what the Aborigines said) and then it was near impossible to find.
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Rodlox
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Feb 16 2018, 03:12 PM

(Also, like, the aborigines of Australia knew what a platypus was well before English naturalists, it wasn't a cryptid).
by that logic, Bigfoot and the Yeren aren't cryptids, because the local people knew of them before Europeans arrived.
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