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Is there any cryptids that could be real?; Which cryptids could be real?
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Topic Started: Feb 8 2018, 08:16 PM (4,375 Views)
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lamna
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Feb 12 2018, 06:20 PM
Post #46
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- GlarnBoudin
- Feb 12 2018, 05:23 PM
Never said that they were fully-grown when they went down the river. I meant when they were large enough to fend for themselves - ergo, when they're just fairly large.
Furthermore, reports of giant eels *do* exist from across Britain - the idea is that these things use multiple lakes and lochs to breed, with Loch Ness being just one place. Plus, Loch Ness' lack of life could make it a very useful nursery - such a bare ecosystem would mean that these hypothetical eels would be largely unchallenged, aside from by European and conger eels.
That said, I'd agree that it'd be more likely to see this creature in a different area - say, in fjords of Iceland. I don't think one of the birthplaces of modern zoology would miss a large fish.
And the Loch is poor in life just because of its geography. It's very deep and has very steep walls, hence very little area for water plants to grow in. Plants need sunlight, and can't really grow any deeper than 4.5 metres (15 feet) down.
Loch Ness is really, really deep. Its average depth is 132 metres (433 feet) and its deepest point is 226.96 metres (744.6 feet). There are no hydrothermal vents or and very little "marine" snow to sustain a deep water ecology. Loch Ness contains a massive amount of water, but most of it is useless for animal and plant life.
Imagine you had a building as tall as a skyscraper, but it only had one floor in it. Inside would be a huge space, but only a few people could make use of it, because it has limited living space.
Edited by lamna, Feb 12 2018, 06:25 PM.
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GlarnBoudin
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Feb 12 2018, 06:47 PM
Post #47
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Regarding Sheather's statement, I actually remember seeing this seminar done by someone with a background in forensics. He pointed out that in Native American legends, Sasquatch are always sapient; it could be that things like it simply don't want to be found.
That, or it could be something very simple - people see what they want to believe. Nowadays, when we see something, we don't really care - we just assume that it's something totally mundane. Nobody really believes in cryptids anymore - hence, nobody really sees them.
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Feb 12 2018, 06:55 PM
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- lamna
- Feb 12 2018, 06:20 PM
- GlarnBoudin
- Feb 12 2018, 05:23 PM
Never said that they were fully-grown when they went down the river. I meant when they were large enough to fend for themselves - ergo, when they're just fairly large.
Furthermore, reports of giant eels *do* exist from across Britain - the idea is that these things use multiple lakes and lochs to breed, with Loch Ness being just one place. Plus, Loch Ness' lack of life could make it a very useful nursery - such a bare ecosystem would mean that these hypothetical eels would be largely unchallenged, aside from by European and conger eels.
That said, I'd agree that it'd be more likely to see this creature in a different area - say, in fjords of Iceland.
I don't think one of the birthplaces of modern zoology would miss a large fish. And the Loch is poor in life just because of its geography. It's very deep and has very steep walls, hence very little area for water plants to grow in. Plants need sunlight, and can't really grow any deeper than 4.5 metres (15 feet) down. Loch Ness is really, really deep. Its average depth is 132 metres (433 feet) and its deepest point is 226.96 metres (744.6 feet). There are no hydrothermal vents or and very little "marine" snow to sustain a deep water ecology. Loch Ness contains a massive amount of water, but most of it is useless for animal and plant life. Imagine you had a building as tall as a skyscraper, but it only had one floor in it. Inside would be a huge space, but only a few people could make use of it, because it has limited living space. Makes me wonder about the spec potential for an alternate Loch Ness with hydrothermal vents in it.
I don't believe any cryptids exist. Even rare deep sea animals like beaked whales, oarfish, giant squid, colossal squid and megamouth sharks wash up on beaches to be found. If there were any large deep sea animals left undiscovered, a carcass would have washed up and been discovered if nothing else.
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GlarnBoudin
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Feb 12 2018, 07:13 PM
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- Rebirth
- Feb 12 2018, 06:55 PM
I don't believe any cryptids exist. Even rare deep sea animals like beaked whales, oarfish, giant squid, colossal squid and megamouth sharks wash up on beaches to be found. If there were any large deep sea animals left undiscovered, a carcass would have washed up and been discovered if nothing else. ...Except they don't. IIRC, oarfish are the only ones of the animals you listed that wash up on beaches, and even then it's really, really rare. IIRC, giant squid have never washed ashore, and shark carcasses tend to sink, ruling them out quickly.
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Spoiler: click to toggle OctoSharkTaSaurus: WELP. HELL-O-PHANTS IT IS. Kamineigh: I was six and I had started having fantasies about this old crone dying. Sometimes by my own hand. YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING HORRIBLY WRONG IF A SIX-YEAR OLD WANTS TO KILL YOU WITH THE SAME HANDS HE JUST USED TO MAKE A BLOCK TOWER. Parasky: No, he's right, they have a medical grade walrus at most hospitals for that sort of thing. Mr Mysterio, regarding yours truly: I'm learning things about you that I'm not sure I wanted to know. HangingThief: An otologist is only as good as his walrus Stealth_Rock: We have a discord for double penetration? Ichthyander: If your eyelids are massive enough to significantly affect the path of light in space, it is time to go sleep. Mr Mysterio: Glarn-Glarn, don't... don't fuck the cave baboons. Kamineigh: They lacked wings. Instead, they went around in modified pilot's gear and beat the shit out of people using maces. Parasky: No! We will not calm down! This is a serious argument over whether or not some long dead animal is in any way similar to a group of modern animals that they are descended from! THIS. IS. SEWIOUS. Lamna: Obvious typo, I'm never going to be popular in Belgium. Trex841: Interesting point. Valid counterpoint. Self-obsessed psychotic rant. Parasky: No ties. Begin genetically modifying crows until we have organisms that roughly resemble those in the competition, and then have them fight to the death to see who wins this competition. Alternatively, Cephalian and SabrWolf could fight to the death. But at the end of the day something will be fighting to the death for my amusement to determine the winner. Yellowdrakex: Is it alright to have an irrational fear of gliding snakes? They're snakes. FROM ABOVE. Kamineigh: See, you wouldn't be in this mess if you began a bloody revolution every time your leaders showed to unsatisfactory. Zihuatanejo: Somewhere in heaven, a very groggy, very confused angel has just woken up and is trying to figure out why a boisterous Australian man is poking it with a stick. Komodo: I'm sorry but in what alternative universe would thousands of zebras be sent back in time by some sort of illegal time travel group to change history and preparing them by making gigantic working animatronic allosaurs? Seriously, why? Parasky: Maybe y'all should move to America, where you can flex your freedom muscles. Sir Spookums: It's a game about children catching super powered monsters, stuffing them in tiny balls, and battling other strangers' monsters. What about that makes sense in regards to anything, mister Kam? Des Orages: Yi qi. Just when you think you've seen it all, nature screws us over once more. Kaminiegh: This is clearly an inaccurate statement. I'd never challenge the authority of an admin... Unless Paraksytron stubbed his toe and fell over. THEN I, STARSCREIGHM, WILL BECOME THE NEW LEADER OF OF THE DE-SPECU-CONS! Dragon: Is normal a good word to use for describing any of us? Velociraptor: I once dreamed I was trying to steal a flamingo. The flamingo was oddly calm about the whole situation. Kaminiegh: THAT'S IT, I'M KINKSHAMING. Flashman63: In its 4,600 year history, men from all eras, places and classes have been entering into the Library: from the ancient bearded sages of Sumeria and Chaldea, to the sober-minded Academics and Zoologists of the Victorian era, to the great warlord Cletus, an inbred hillbilly who just happened to be carrying his AR-15 around his County's Strip-Mall library. OctoSharktasaurus: Well, uh, it's a pseudo-tripedal, terrestrial subcontinental Madagascan Beaked Whale... Is that not obvious? It literally says it blatantly. Holben: Did you not add lamb's blood to your fruit juice and the crushed bones of an englishman to your salsa? It's not authentic if you don't. Kaminiegh: Shut up, Hybrid, stop ruining my chances of time-travelling and getting some Neanderthal tail! Mr Mysterio: Except maybe Canada. If ever there was a country that was hiding secret reserves of powerful alien technology, it's probably mine. HangingThief: If you answered mainly "yes," you are most likely a salamander. Unfortunately it is becoming harder and harder to tell these days. Monster: In vaguely related news, I've developed a fear of my sewing machine. WHAT ARE YOU STRANGE NEEDLEBEAST Mynxi: He sowed the seed, I merely pissed on it and saw what grew. Beetleboy: The moral of the story: never trust a catfish. Parasky: Speaking of original, note to self: write erotic classical Chinese literature fan fiction Bromance of the Three Kingdoms under pseudonym Tuck Chingle. Little: Starting playing DND, took all of an hour of gameplay until a yuri love-triangle was initiated. And no, it was not my fault. Corecin: If this is your first time with a lesbian love triangle in a DnD game than you don't even have to specify that you're starting out. Octo: Oh no now Little will enlighten with the deep and complex subject that is hentai lore. Beetleboy: It shows what kind of person I am that I'm seeking crush advice on a forum about creating fictional organisms. Corecin: I am not in the mood for looking up yuri because then the FBI agent monitoring my computer will judge me with reckless abandon. Blue_Komrade: Excuse me sir I am going to have to see if you have your membership card to the Misanthrope Club. Parasky: Ultimately, by the miracle of microbiology and biochemistry, I have accidentally added an additional month to my brew and created a Bavarian style hefeweizen rather than the American style wheat beer I planned, despite technically not having the correct ingredients. However because I wrote down what I did wrong its not a mistake it's actually science. Rebirth: I can't be the only one curious about what would happen if you spayed and neutered a male antechinus before it reached sexual maturity. Ebervalius: Laws? What kind of spooky cuckery is that? Parasky: Ah see, but that's just the thing, you thought that I thought that you thought that I had said you hadn't read it, when really I had said that you had said that you thought that I thought that you hadn't read it. So really it's Flisch's fault.
Co-creator/corporate minion for the Pop Culture Monster Apocalypse!
My Projects
Spoiler: click to toggle Coming Soon
Spoiler: click to toggle Evolutionary Continuum: Jurassic Safari: An adventure 65 million years in the making continues. The Future is Altered: When man plays God, he plays to win.
Alternative Evolution: The Extended Jurassic: The time of the titans extends through the Cretaceous Xensaron: Second chance for the strange
The Habitable Zone: Bellator: A World at War Pentrex: The five worlds of the five champions of the dinosaur world, together at last.
Alternate Universes: Terra Venatus: Where fantasy comes to life Terra Incognita: Planet Earth, now with 150% more pulp! Sol and its Surrounding Worlds: A Guide to the Organisms and Peoples of the Solar System (Companion to Terra Incognita) Guide to the Ark: ???
Cafe Cosmique: Time Rip: When Dinosaurs Attack!
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Rebirth
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Feb 12 2018, 07:24 PM
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- GlarnBoudin
- Feb 12 2018, 07:13 PM
- Rebirth
- Feb 12 2018, 06:55 PM
I don't believe any cryptids exist. Even rare deep sea animals like beaked whales, oarfish, giant squid, colossal squid and megamouth sharks wash up on beaches to be found. If there were any large deep sea animals left undiscovered, a carcass would have washed up and been discovered if nothing else.
...Except they don't. IIRC, oarfish are the only ones of the animals you listed that wash up on beaches, and even then it's really, really rare. IIRC, giant squid have never washed ashore, and shark carcasses tend to sink, ruling them out quickly. Dead sharks wash up on beaches all the time. I know of at least one case of a giant squid that washed up in Kaikoura. And many beaked whales are only known from washed up carcasses.
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Tartarus
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Feb 12 2018, 07:26 PM
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- Feb 11 2018, 11:10 PM
- LittleLazyLass
- Feb 11 2018, 10:36 PM
Didn't that episode focus on the greenland shark?
no, that focus was in the final season. But the episode did seem to conclude Greenland sharks could be behind Nessie reports. I think that could well be true to at least some degree. Though, as I said before, "Loch Ness Monster" is more of a blanket term for whatever strange things people have seen in Loch Ness rather than a reference to a specific species. So while Greenland sharks could explain some accounts, I doubt it is only Greenland sharks and nothing else.
- Bob
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Personally I feel like when talking about cryptids people tend to have two very different mindset (of course there is variation as with all opinions, but generally people I meet fall into two camps); people who think of the more grounded side of the cryptid definition when they hear the word including things such as displaced animals, animals which are od but perfectly logical, or not-as-extinct-as-we-thought animals (Britains big cats, Komodo dragons, and Thylacines respectively) and the camp of people who think of mystical monsters when they hear the word cryptid (mothman, chubacabra, Jeresy Devil). I am rather skeptical of things like mothman, chupacabras and Jersey Devils, though I think there was likely a basis of fact to the accounts. Probably there were some sightings of far less fantastical creatures (e.g. large owls in mothman's case, mangy dogs in the chupacabra's and so on) and exaggerations and embellishments produced far-fetched tall tales about fantastical monsters. I generally remain on the "more grounded side", as you put it. I think there probably still are many species of animals not yet officially discovered but I think those yet to be discovered animals will still nonetheless turn out to be ordinary animals even if sometimes quite surprising ones.
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LittleLazyLass
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Feb 12 2018, 08:20 PM
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Regarding Sheather's statement, I actually remember seeing this seminar done by someone with a background in forensics. He pointed out that in Native American legends, Sasquatch are always sapient; it could be that things like it simply don't want to be found. This was always the way I saw it. They're (supposed for the sake of argument they're real) almost certainly the smartest organisms on earth, alongside us, and if they wanted to avoid us I recon they'd be better at it than just about anything. Additionally, once again supposing they exist, once one does royally fuck up and provide us undeniable proof, suddenly there's no shortage of encounters and videos/pictures (ones that suddenly are worth taking a lot more seriously) putting it on some magical pedestal away from everything else.
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Even though he is our creator, that does not afford him the right to take our lives on a whim. But that is the thinking of a homs. He is a god. Such morals cannot apply to gods. So you think we should just shut up and die?! If that is the fate decided by a god. You are mistaken if you think we will simply accept such a fate and wait to die. We'll never stop fighting. Not till the end. To Zanza, the outcome is the same. Thus your logic is flawed.
- Hades - Kid Icarus Uprising
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When freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.
- Kid Icarus Uprising
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But Souls are delicious. They're like bacon - they taste good on anything. But if you eat them, you completely remove them from existence! They can't move on or... or be reincarnated! Huh. I never really gave it much thought. Besides, what do you mean by reincarnation anyway? You know, being reborn as someone or something else. Which means different body, different memories, different experiences, yes? So isn't being reborn as "something else" the same as being "removed from existence"? I... I... eating souls isn't right! That depends on your definition of "right". All living things survive by eating other living things. So what? You're a god. You should be above all that! Gods are above living things, which doesn't necessarily mean we care about them.
- Some Dude on BBC Two
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You are being shagged... by a flightless parrot.
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Bob-The-Seagull-King
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Feb 12 2018, 09:20 PM
Post #53
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Bob, king of the seagulls
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Even considering if they are sapient, its not like humans haven't combed every part of the earth at one point. They'd either have to be living in underground or be purely nomads for... some reason.
If they were sapient then I doubt they'd not be seen even more! The possibility of a bigfoot that would try to show themselves to the world is an inevitability imo if they were sapient.
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“The search for truth takes us to dangerous places,” said Old Woman Josie. “Often it takes us to that most dangerous place: the library. You know who said that? No? George Washington did. Minutes before librarians ate him.” ― Joseph Fink, Welcome to Night Vale “Librarians are hideous creatures of unimaginable power. And even if you could imagine their power, it would be illegal. It is absolutely illegal to even try to picture what such a being would be like.” ― Joseph Fink, Welcome to Night Vale "Blep" ― Diglett, My Blue Tonge
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LittleLazyLass
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Feb 12 2018, 10:23 PM
Post #54
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Proud quilt in a bag
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I see no reason why it's impossible they could be nomadic and unwilling to make contact.
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totally not British, b-baka!
You like me (Unlike) I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
Me  Forum user Uncanny Gemstar drew what is supposed to be a me. Thanks! Spoiler: click to toggle As they walk in, they're greeted by a small, poorly kept pathway leading to a poorly constructed Japanese-style gate. Behind this, a small field made up of corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, among other plants is contrasted by large piles of books, as well as a few rather out of place looking laptops. Off in the corner, a small woman, with long, striped, and strikingly colorful socks, no shoes, unremarkable denim shorts, a large, fancy black coat, arm warmers, glasses, a tuque, and somewhat unkempt, mid-length blue-and-pink-streaked red hair, is rummaging through a trash bin, located behind a sign saying "employees only". She continues this for a while (walking behind a wall to change her outfit now and then), until one of her visitors coughs. Startled, she looks up, apologizes, and grabs a handful of textbooks and novels before daintily running off to join them. What, you want me to tell you what these mean? Predenterra The (Lost) Lost World The Standing World Read First Clarifications on my sex and genderSorry if I come off as rude, I don't put much thought into word choice sometimes. I'm also super prone to editing my posts, sometimes multiple times, in the minutes following posting. For the love of god, take my posts from my earlier days on the forum with a grain of salt. I was not particularly knowledgeable or mature back then. Some of them are so cringe-worthy I can't even bring myself to look at them. Words Maybe Great Words - Words To Spec By
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It would have to be something extremely alien, pushing the limits of our imagination. But those are always my favorite kinds of life. ~~The Words of The Xenologist
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Ignorance is never insulting if you're willing to learn, we're all ignorant about most things. ~~The Words of Lamna
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Yeah, and even if you don't agree with creationists on that concept, that doesn't mean they can't be decent people. I have friends who are creationist (possibly even young earth) that I get along with fine in general life. I don't think they're right of course, but that doesn't make them intellectual degenerates. ~~The Words of forbidden3
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Even though he is our creator, that does not afford him the right to take our lives on a whim. But that is the thinking of a homs. He is a god. Such morals cannot apply to gods. So you think we should just shut up and die?! If that is the fate decided by a god. You are mistaken if you think we will simply accept such a fate and wait to die. We'll never stop fighting. Not till the end. To Zanza, the outcome is the same. Thus your logic is flawed.
- Hades - Kid Icarus Uprising
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When freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.
- Kid Icarus Uprising
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But Souls are delicious. They're like bacon - they taste good on anything. But if you eat them, you completely remove them from existence! They can't move on or... or be reincarnated! Huh. I never really gave it much thought. Besides, what do you mean by reincarnation anyway? You know, being reborn as someone or something else. Which means different body, different memories, different experiences, yes? So isn't being reborn as "something else" the same as being "removed from existence"? I... I... eating souls isn't right! That depends on your definition of "right". All living things survive by eating other living things. So what? You're a god. You should be above all that! Gods are above living things, which doesn't necessarily mean we care about them.
- Some Dude on BBC Two
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You are being shagged... by a flightless parrot.
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Niedfaru
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Feb 12 2018, 11:21 PM
Post #55
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We should be very wary of saying "we know everything already". We clearly don't.
That statistic you hear about how we know more about the moon than the ocean: I always thought it was BS, but listening to an oceanographer explain why it's not was fascinating. Basically, we have explored the surface 50m of the oceans with scuba gear and (some of) the sea floors with subs. The surface range is now extending thanks to new scuba gear that lets you go down to 100m. But that still leaves a huge gap in the middle. That there could be large interesting and unknown species in the seas that are currently unknown is far from impossible. Yeah, fishing nets and sonar and all that make it harder and harder, but still not impossible. In 2016, a 24ft specimen of a new species of beaked whale washed up in Alaska, for example.
And even outside the oceans, there's still space, just not much of it. Given that over 13000 new species are discovered each year, it's still possible to find something. Yes, I know, half of those species are insects, and many of them are just splitting existing species into smaller groups. But, still, it only takes one of those...
BUT I agree that, as Sheather says, it's much easier to find evidence now than ever before, and most cryptids don't have a lot to them. But that just means the burden of proof higher now, not that everything has already been found.
More on Orang Pendek - I'd forgotten this bit until I looked it up again. It probably already is extinct, in fact it was probably extinct long before Europeans ever heard of it: it was probably Homo Floresiensis. Sumatra is close to Flores, and Flores has it's own mythology called Ebu Gogo, which is described very similarly to Orang Pendek. This just gives more grounding to the cryptid, though, and some (not many) are still suggesting H. Floresiensis is still alive. It's not likely.
But, with that in mind, how many cryptids could be a similar cultural echo of an animal we know to be extinct?
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Scrublord
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Feb 12 2018, 11:28 PM
Post #56
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Well, that depends on whether you mean cryptids or just myths in general. The Maori of New Zealand had the Pouakai, which is almost universally agreed to have been the Haast's eagle, and likewise the original Thunderbird of Native American mythology (as opposed to the cryptozoological version) may have been based on folk memories of teratorns.
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Niedfaru
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Feb 12 2018, 11:48 PM
Post #57
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Hmm, well yeah, there are lots of theories about cultural memories in mythology, but I'm wondering specifically about cryptids. Then again, where do you draw the line between cryptozoology and mythology. The former can be fantastical, while the latter can often be very reasonable, so...
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Bob-The-Seagull-King
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Feb 13 2018, 12:25 AM
Post #58
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Bob, king of the seagulls
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- LittleLazyLass
- Feb 12 2018, 10:23 PM
I see no reason why it's impossible they could be nomadic and unwilling to make contact. I would say it's highly, highly unlikely that an entire sapient species lives hidden from us and the entire society has somehow had enough contact with our world that there are regular sightings and "supposed" footage, but not so much that we know anything about this entire sapient society.
Especially unlikely that not one member of the species/faction has attempted to make actual decent contact within recent (last century or so) history.
EDIT: AND that they apparently live in the US, since that's where most sighting I know of are found, while still not being found AND that they're also, like, bigger than humans (which, at minimum, requires a LOT of food and a LOT of space to have that food grow).
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“The search for truth takes us to dangerous places,” said Old Woman Josie. “Often it takes us to that most dangerous place: the library. You know who said that? No? George Washington did. Minutes before librarians ate him.” ― Joseph Fink, Welcome to Night Vale “Librarians are hideous creatures of unimaginable power. And even if you could imagine their power, it would be illegal. It is absolutely illegal to even try to picture what such a being would be like.” ― Joseph Fink, Welcome to Night Vale "Blep" ― Diglett, My Blue Tonge
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Rebirth
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Feb 13 2018, 12:30 AM
Post #59
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The whowhie of aboriginal mythology is said to be a giant man-eating goanna of 20 feet long, but has 6 legs instead of 4 and a frog-like head. Not exactly megalania, but 50,000 years of folklore might distort it.
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Picrodus
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Feb 13 2018, 02:12 AM
Post #60
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This makes me wonder what people think of the Patterson–Gimlin film?
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