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| Sapient Species of Earth? | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 2 2018, 12:08 AM (756 Views) | |
| Terraraptor411 | Feb 2 2018, 12:08 AM Post #1 |
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Troodontid
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I realize this is a highly debated topic and difficult to pin down. There are going to be different definitions and opinions on what it means to be sapient/ a sophont. I understand that. However, this isn't to finalize a rigid definition, but to compose a list of the species in real life here on Earth that have strong arguments for sapience. It will by no means be perfect, but I'm hoping if many people contribute we can get a decent and somewhat accurate list. I made this list based on tool building, complexity of social behaviors, empathy, self-identification, grasp of some abstract thought, ability to adapt to new environments and stimuli, interspecies altruism, and standard intelligence tests. Not every species here meets every category listed, but meets enough to warrant a mention. This will be updated often as I learn of new behaviors or species that change qualifications. Cephalopods and Psttacines are not as extensively researched as the others yet. Any additions, comments, or critiques are welcome. Sapient Earth Species Primates -Homo sapiens (Humans) -Pans troglodytes (Common Chimpanzee) -Pans paniscus (Bonobo) -Gorilla gorilla (Eastern Gorilla) -Gorilla beringei (Western Gorilla) -Pongo abeii (Sumatran Orangutan) -Pongo pgymaeus (Bornean Orangutan) -Pongo tapanuliensis (Tapanuli Orangutan) Cetacea -Tursiops truncatus (Common Bottlenose Dolphin) -Tursiops aduncus (Indo-Pacific Bottlenose Dolphin) -Tursiops australis (Burrunan Bottlenose Dolphin) -Sotalia fluviatilis (Tucuxi Dolphin) -Orcinus Orca (Orca) -Pseudorca crassidens (False Killer Whale) -Megaptera novaeangliae (Humpback Whale) -Delphinapterus leucas (Beluga Whale) Elephantinae -Loxodonta africana (African Bush Elephant) -Loxodonta cyclotis (African Forest Elephant) -Elephus maximus (Asian Elephant) Psittaciformes -Nestor notabilis (Kea) -Psittacus erithacus (African Grey Parrot) -Probosciger aterrimus (Palm Cocktatoo) Corvidae -Corvus moneduloides (New Caledonian Crow) -Pica pica (Eurasian Magpie) -Aphelocoma californica (Caliornia Scrub Jay) Cephalopods -Amphioctopus marginatus (Coconut Octopus) -Enteroctopus dofleini (Giant Pacific Octopus) -Octopus vulgaris (Common Octopus) Note that some domestic species, like Dogs, that could potentially qualify were excluded due to their intelligence being at its highest in human environments. AKA a specialized habitat. Wild and feral dogs often lack these traits. Edited by Terraraptor411, Feb 2 2018, 11:08 AM.
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Current Projects: Alien Earth Ultimate Pangea Potential Future Projects Future of the North Star: TBD My DA Page: https://terraraptor.deviantart.com/ | |
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| Rodlox | Feb 2 2018, 03:55 AM Post #2 |
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Superhuman
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hmm,,,hasn't it been established that its either "so long and thanks for all the fish" or "and I hope that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'cause there's bugger all down here on earth" ? |
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.---------------------------------------------. Parts of the Cluster Worlds: "Marsupialless Australia" (what-if) & "Out on a Branch" (future evolution) & "The Earth under a still sun" (WIP) | |
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| Archeoraptor | Feb 2 2018, 04:56 AM Post #3 |
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"A living paradox"
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what about belugas? they are un studied I guess?I have a weird personal story that may be relevant for this |
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Astarte an alt eocene world,now on long hiatus but you never know Fanauraa; The rebirth of Aotearoa future evo set in new zealand after a mass extinction coming soon......a world that was seeded with earth´s weridest and who knows what is coming next........... " I have to know what the world will be looking throw a future beyond us I have to know what could have been if fate acted in another way I have to know what lies on the unknown universe I have to know that the laws of thee universe can be broken throw The Spec I gain strength to the inner peace the is not good of evil only nature and change,the evolution of all livings beings" " Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Chuditch | Feb 2 2018, 05:12 AM Post #4 |
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Dasyurid
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The Palm Cockatoo may be another parrot that could possibly qualify. They are tool users and bond for life, and I believe they possess feelings towards others (not confirmed as they are little studied). |
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My wildlife YouTube channel Projects
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| Archeoraptor | Feb 2 2018, 05:54 AM Post #5 |
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"A living paradox"
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don´t all socail animals have feelings towrds others? |
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Astarte an alt eocene world,now on long hiatus but you never know Fanauraa; The rebirth of Aotearoa future evo set in new zealand after a mass extinction coming soon......a world that was seeded with earth´s weridest and who knows what is coming next........... " I have to know what the world will be looking throw a future beyond us I have to know what could have been if fate acted in another way I have to know what lies on the unknown universe I have to know that the laws of thee universe can be broken throw The Spec I gain strength to the inner peace the is not good of evil only nature and change,the evolution of all livings beings" " Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Niedfaru | Feb 2 2018, 06:28 AM Post #6 |
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I remember an interview with a corvid specialist, who said that he felt ravens to be the most intelligent corvid. I don't know what basis he was making that judgment on though. I see if I can dig it up. |
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| Flisch | Feb 2 2018, 07:32 AM Post #7 |
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Superhuman
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This just raises the question how good we are actually at recognizing intelligence. I doubt dogs are more intelligent than wolves to the degree to make it or break it on this list, but they have been selectively bred to synchronize with human interaction. Being unable to recognize what a pointing finger means doesn't mean the animal in question is less intelligent. It just means in its evolutionary history, finger pointing humans were not a factor for natural selection. Animals behave according to their psychological framework. That doesn't mean animals that don't act like humans expect them to are less intelligent. At any rate, you could look into manta rays. I'm not sure if they fully meet the criteria you listed*, but at least they passed the mirror test. (*This is an example for the thing I mentioned above. Mantas, due to their very physiology, are terrible at problem solving. They have no way to manipulate their environment, so this is one of the criteria they would automatically fail, no matter how intelligent they are as a whole.) |
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| Chuditch | Feb 2 2018, 09:13 AM Post #8 |
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Dasyurid
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I've heard dingoes are more intelligent than other dogs, better at problem solving and such. |
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My wildlife YouTube channel Projects
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| Pangolin12 | Feb 2 2018, 09:52 AM Post #9 |
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Nerd
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Aren't most crows intelligent enough to qualify for this list? |
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| Terraraptor411 | Feb 2 2018, 11:02 AM Post #10 |
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Troodontid
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Could you explain that more? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
I didn't include Belugas yet due to lack of popular studies on them and the fact that I hadn't yet had the time to look into them. Personal stories are welcome, though usually not enough evidence on their own.
I'll definietly look into them, but be careful when you say "feelings". We're not even sure how to define that in humans, much less other species. Thats why I didn't mention emotions on the list of qualifiers. Altruism and empathy are as far as I'm willing to go into that category, as they can be observed to some extent.
Please do! Any and all papers are welcome. I wanted to include more corvids but with 120+ species I hadn't yet had the time to look into each one. Just putting in crows and ravens is kind of a blanket statement, I want to be more specific if possible.
Yes! The idea that we're not at best equipped to define intelligence is part of the reason I'm making this, and being very tentative about it. Your example with pointing in dogs is spot on, dogs have evolved their behaviors to adapt to living with humans. This makes them great at communicating with us, but does it make them intelligent? Thats why I didn't include them. Huh, I had no idea they passed the mirror test. Thats really interesting. I also doubt they qualify for the list, but I can certainly look into it. If they showcase strong social bonds, learned behavior, and altruism, then they might have an argument for sapience. |
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Current Projects: Alien Earth Ultimate Pangea Potential Future Projects Future of the North Star: TBD My DA Page: https://terraraptor.deviantart.com/ | |
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| Archeoraptor | Feb 2 2018, 11:41 AM Post #11 |
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"A living paradox"
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so as a kid in an aquarium somehow, I don´t rememeber it very well is mostly what I was told and teh fact I know it happenned(there is a photo somewhere too) but basically, I started making weird noises and sounds (bc you know kids) trying to imitate the beluga and then the beluga stranded in front of me on the other side of the glass and produced noises too and so I did. this sound really weird but maaaaybe we tried somehow to communicate with each other? |
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Astarte an alt eocene world,now on long hiatus but you never know Fanauraa; The rebirth of Aotearoa future evo set in new zealand after a mass extinction coming soon......a world that was seeded with earth´s weridest and who knows what is coming next........... " I have to know what the world will be looking throw a future beyond us I have to know what could have been if fate acted in another way I have to know what lies on the unknown universe I have to know that the laws of thee universe can be broken throw The Spec I gain strength to the inner peace the is not good of evil only nature and change,the evolution of all livings beings" " Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| WaterWitch | Feb 2 2018, 01:33 PM Post #12 |
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Might manage to hold down a project some day
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It does sound like some intelligent play behavior with the sound mimicking. |
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| Archeoraptor | Feb 2 2018, 03:18 PM Post #13 |
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"A living paradox"
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maybe we should communicate with cetaceans using their "language"
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Astarte an alt eocene world,now on long hiatus but you never know Fanauraa; The rebirth of Aotearoa future evo set in new zealand after a mass extinction coming soon......a world that was seeded with earth´s weridest and who knows what is coming next........... " I have to know what the world will be looking throw a future beyond us I have to know what could have been if fate acted in another way I have to know what lies on the unknown universe I have to know that the laws of thee universe can be broken throw The Spec I gain strength to the inner peace the is not good of evil only nature and change,the evolution of all livings beings" " Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| lamna | Feb 2 2018, 03:55 PM Post #14 |
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Tool use was once the cornerstone of determining what was intelligent or not. Now it seems we can't got a month without another example of animals using tools. And should that be surprising? I mean, how is intricately woven nest or complex termite mount any different than a tool? Obviously, chimp culture is different to finches with cactus spines, but tool use alone doesn't seem like something of particular merit. I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure cephlopod intelligence gets inflated in the public imagination. But are they actually an especially intelligent animal, or are they just intelligent for an invertebrate? |
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| Chuditch | Feb 2 2018, 04:31 PM Post #15 |
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Dasyurid
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Yes that is what I meant, I see now that feelings isn't a good word to describe those characteristics. |
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