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Male Lions Spotted Having Sexual Intercourse With Each Other
Topic Started: Nov 4 2017, 02:58 PM (829 Views)
Sheather
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Homosexuality is a continued pattern of exclusive attraction to the same sex, which is extremely uncommon in animals. The only examples I can think of are captive birds experimentally raised in environments totally lacking in females, some of them became totally imprinted on other males because they had never seen a female bird before, but otherwise it's really a human thing.

Virtually all "gay" animals are by a more accurate definition bisexual, because they aren't usually exclusively inclined to mate with others of their sex. Animals form gay pairs and mate with others of their sex very frequently, but there is not usually a pattern of doing so exclusively. The famous gay zoo penguins Roy and Silo mated with females when separated and male lions that mount each other still live in prides with lionesses and sire cubs.
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Mr Mysterio
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I'm assuming homosexual behavior is just "animal has sex with another of the same sex once or twice, but still attempts to mate with a member of a different sex", as opposed to homosexuality proper, which would be "animal engages in sex/mating behaviors exclusively with member(s) of the same sex and shows no interest at all in other sexes".

Which, y'know, could also be plain old bisexuality, but as Flisch said, we don't wanna anthropomorphize animal behaviors too much or apply our own sociological concepts to them when their social structures are generally very different from our own.

Edit: dangit, ninja'd.
Edited by Mr Mysterio, Nov 4 2017, 06:49 PM.
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IIGSY
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Two questions.

1. If Sheather is right, then why are humans 'more gay' than other animals?

2. How common is homosexuality among arthropods? People already mentioned spiders and dragonflies, but I wonder about others.
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Mr Mysterio
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As far as I know, homosexuality hasn't been recorded much in arthropods, if at all, but homosexual behavior has. The only ones I've heard of are spiders. Homosexual behavior has also been recorded in molluscs, namely, octopuses.

As for why outright homosexuality is so common in humans as opposed to other animals, your guess is as good as mine. The exact reasons for homosexuality are still not concretely known. There's lots of theories, sure, but honestly? I doubt we'll ever really know 100% for sure.
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Yiqi15
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Nov 4 2017, 07:01 PM
1. If Sheather is right, then why are humans 'more gay' than other animals?
I don't think we are more gay then other animals; it just seems like that because we are more capable of abstract thought [1] and so we just seem like it.
[1] It might be that all animals can preform abstract thought to a degree
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CaledonianWarrior96
Nov 4 2017, 06:41 PM
I don't want to sound offensive here I'm genuinely curious, but what's the difference between homosexuality and homosexual behaviour? They don't sound too distinct to me

Let me put it this way: I'm not a vegetarian, but I do eat salad every now and then.

Basically, homosexuality is the attraction, while homosexual bheaviour is simply an act, that may or may not be based on attraction. A lot of animals are known to engage in homosexual behaviour for reasons other than attraction. (Though this is a very fuzzy line as most animals aren't doing it consciously.)

Nyarlathotep
Nov 4 2017, 06:45 PM
The concept of sexual orientation is quite a recent phenomenon, being mainly post-enlightenment. Before it was defined mostly if not entirely by actions. People didn't think in terms of straight, gay, bi etc but by what actions one took. I think that was what he was looking for.

I also wanted to highlight what Nyarlothep said here. The idea of homosexuality is also in parts influenced by our modern way of thinking. In reality there is no (clear) homosexual/heterosexual (or bisexual) divide. Everyone is potentially attracted to everything, to varying degrees. (Depending on circumstance, mood, you name it.) But humans like categories and ever since we made up these categories of sexual attraction we started to identify with a certain side, which imprints on our way of thinking. It's kind of like a weird wobbly complex and ass-backwards feedback loop.

Sheather
Nov 4 2017, 06:48 PM
Homosexuality is a continued pattern of exclusive attraction to the same sex, which is extremely uncommon in animals. The only examples I can think of are captive birds experimentally raised in environments totally lacking in females, some of them became totally imprinted on other males because they had never seen a female bird before, but otherwise it's really a human thing.

We had a talk about this in the past (and I brought up your point as well) but apparently homosexuality has been observed in sheep.

Mr Mysterio
Nov 4 2017, 07:09 PM
As for why outright homosexuality is so common in humans as opposed to other animals, your guess is as good as mine. The exact reasons for homosexuality are still not concretely known. There's lots of theories, sure, but honestly? I doubt we'll ever really know 100% for sure.

I wouldn't say homosexuality is not so common among non-human animals. We just don't have any actual numbers. Nobody is running after wild animals 24/7 to make sure they only couple with one sex. And in captivity people say its aberrant behaviour. Plus, animals don't have any social norms or expectations. They bang whatever they find, even if it's a soaked loaf of bread.

Humans on the other hand think in words. Words have the power to affect the way we think. There's been studies with indigenous peoples, who lack a certain word and as such its concept. When confronted with a certain situation, they may act completely differently, because certain pathways in their brain are different than from people who use that specific word and its associations. So in our society most people (unless they identify as bisexual) think of getting a boyfriend or girlfriend, you know, word that already carry a gender in them. As a result this already sets their brain and actions down a certain path, even if they're not aware of it.

Personally, I feel the topic of our thinking being the product of our environment to be a far too under appreciated one.
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Flisch
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The issue has been solved, it is now known what caused this behaviour in lions:

Disclaimer: Text in picture contains minor profanity
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Yiqi15
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Flisch
Nov 9 2017, 05:16 AM
The issue has been solved, it is now known what caused this behaviour in lions:

Disclaimer: Text in picture contains minor profanity
A few problems with this:

1. While lions are probably pretty intelligent, I doubt they can copy sexual behaviour in another species.

2. What sort of tourist has sex in the middle of the bush?

3. Kenya is notorious for its homophobia, so i'm not trusting any official from that country when it comes to LGBT topics.
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CaledonianWarrior96
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Flisch
Nov 9 2017, 05:16 AM
The issue has been solved, it is now known what caused this behaviour in lions:

Disclaimer: Text in picture contains minor profanity
I'm not uncomfortable with watching animals mate with each other, but did they have to use that picture with that angle?
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Zorcuspine
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Flisch
Nov 9 2017, 05:16 AM
The issue has been solved, it is now known what caused this behaviour in lions:

Disclaimer: Text in picture contains minor profanity
That sounds suspiciously like a bigot trying to justify their own hangups to me.
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Flisch
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I mean, I thought it was fairly obvious that I posted the picture (and accompanying explanation) as a joke. >_>
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Zorcuspine
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Flisch
Nov 9 2017, 11:39 AM
I mean, I thought it was fairly obvious that I posted the picture (and accompanying explanation) as a joke. >_>
Sorry, I'm kind of slow when it comes to sarcasm.
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