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My issues with the T rex skin study; WARNING: you have entered rant zone
Topic Started: Oct 30 2017, 07:44 AM (1,655 Views)
Zorcuspine
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dino-ken
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Honestly - I have no problem with sub-adult or Adult T-rex having mostly scaly skin.

T.rex is known to have lived in a warm environment (which very rarely saw cool temps) - much like Florida today. Also Adult T,rex is a huge animal - as large as a very large bull Elephant(7-8 metric tons). Being completely covered in feathers would have made so An Adult T,rex would likely over heat. So an adult T. rex without feathers is kind of like an adult elephant without hair. It is something which may be basically useless.

Still it is possible that as Adult, T.rex(and other tyrannosaurs) may have had feathers in a few well placed spots(back of the neck, on the arms, on the tai)l - especially during mating season. Only to lose them once mating season was over. As a small juvenile(first few years) - small downy feathers would make sense for helping to keep the juveniles warm at night.
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Mao
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dino-ken
Nov 1 2017, 04:28 PM
Honestly - I have no problem with sub-adult or Adult T-rex having mostly scaly skin.

T.rex is known to have lived in a warm environment (which very rarely saw cool temps) - much like Florida today. Also Adult T,rex is a huge animal - as large as a very large bull Elephant(7-8 metric tons). Being completely covered in feathers would have made so An Adult T,rex would likely over heat. So an adult T. rex without feathers is kind of like an adult elephant without hair. It is something which may be basically useless.

Still it is possible that as Adult, T.rex(and other tyrannosaurs) may have had feathers in a few well placed spots(back of the neck, on the arms, on the tai)l - especially during mating season. Only to lose them once mating season was over. As a small juvenile(first few years) - small downy feathers would make sense for helping to keep the juveniles warm at night.
ah yes, lets compare it's thermoregulatory functions to an elephant, you know, an animal that totally doesn't live in a way hotter environment and totally doesen't have an entirely different way of cooling itself off. and let's forget that T rex's environment was definitely not a forest, but a giant savannah-like an elephant.

You have the right to your opinion, but I always see this argument but you're just comparing apples to oranges at this point. someone really needs to remove this post, because we're going nowhere. Arguing about dinosaur integument is about as important as arguing about politics, completely pointless.
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Dragonthunders
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ah yes, lets compare it's thermoregulatory functions to an elephant, you know, an animal that totally doesn't live in a way hotter environment and totally doesen't have an entirely different way of cooling itself off. and let's forget that T rex's environment was definitely not a forest, but a giant savannah-like an elephant.

Forgetting your obvious sarcasm, elephants are not exclusive of a specific environment, they live in different places from forest areas, islands, marshes coasts and even deserts, they can live in any tropical and subtropical climates.

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You have the right to your opinion, but I always see this argument but you're just comparing apples to oranges at this point.

Why exactly? elephants are the only animals of the same size as a Tyrannosaurus alive, so they are the best comparison, they only thing that people have not agreed with the analogy is that the plumage does not work in the same way as the mammal coat, although Theropods as tyrannosaurs and ancestors presented a less complex form of tegument, being only filament like in structure.

You never show something to refute the analogy so you can't just tell us that is like comparing apples to oranges.

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someone really needs to remove this post, because we're going nowhere.

I must say that it is rather you are not going anywhere, like in most of the post.
If you're wondering why lowry called your opinion ego-inflated is probably because of this, most of the arguments have been more about whether you accept the assumptions or not, only you, the rest of the discussion and points of people feels like are taken aside and the goal of this topic is that people agree with your opinion, and if not then delete the posts.

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Arguing about dinosaur integument is about as important as arguing about politics, completely pointless.

So why was your point on all of this, why you tried to keep the argument going if you dont see it like is going to something?


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Tartarus
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Mao
Nov 1 2017, 05:16 AM
and may I also bring up that Lepidosaurs or Crocodiles are not even Ornithodirans to start with? their scales are ancestral to them, whereas fuzz was ancestral to Ornithodirans.
Ornithodirans MAY have been ancestrally fuzzy, but we still have no conclusive evidence to show that this was definitely the case.
And yes, lepidosaurs and crocodiles are not ornithodirans but so what? The fact still remains that scales on dinosaurs did exist and this fact is not changed by the fact that fuzz existed on a number of them as well, nor would this change if it turned out fuzz was ancestral to dinosaurs or to ornithodirans in general.
What point is it you are trying to make here exactly?
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IIGSY
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Y'know, this all has me wondering. Exactly how far back does soft feather/hair like integument go in tetrapods?
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LittleLazyLass
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Well, the dinosaur/pterosaur floof is either two or three independent cases (Ornithischia, somewhere in Theropoda, Pterosauria), or ancestral to Ornithodira, while hair goes back to... something. We know something in the Permian had hair, thanks to a croprolite, off the top of my head, but no idea where on the synapsid branch it falls. Apparently there's something in the pipeline that's gonna clear stuff up.
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IIGSY
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LittleWitch
Nov 1 2017, 08:15 PM
Well, the dinosaur/pterosaur floof is either two or three independent cases (Ornithischia, somewhere in Theropoda, Pterosauria), or ancestral to Ornithodira, while hair goes back to... something. We know something in the Permian had hair, thanks to a croprolite, off the top of my head, but no idea where on the synapsid branch it falls. Apparently there's something in the pipeline that's gonna clear stuff up.
Speaking of integument, something else came to mind. I know this seems kinda off topic and a very "me"-ish thing to ask, but can setae in arthropods function like hair/feathers/pycnofybers?
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

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Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


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Mao
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LittleWitch
Nov 1 2017, 08:15 PM
Apparently there's something in the pipeline that's gonna clear stuff up.
I bet RaptorX863 is behind this. He seems to hint at upcoming discoveries all the time because he attends SVP every year.
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LittleLazyLass
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This was not to my knowledge at all present at SVP.
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Torvonychus
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This is the Speculative Evolution forum, not the Dinosaurs Were All Scaly/Fuzzy Circlejerk Argument forum. Keep your fucking opinions to yourself - most people really don't care about whether you think rexy was Scaly or fuzzy. You are all entitled to your opinions, but for fuck's sake, don't make a rant topic just to shove your opinions of dinosaur integument to the rest of us.


Edited by Torvonychus, Nov 1 2017, 09:45 PM.

Dys, Darwin's Inferno: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5949354/1/



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LittleLazyLass
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Please do not make this more heated for no good reason.
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IIGSY
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Little appears to be a voice of reason as of now, as she often is. It would be advisable to comply.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
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LittleLazyLass
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The inherent issue is that Zorc said the same thing over twelve hours ago. We shouldn't need to re-iterate it.
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dino-ken
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Forgetting your obvious sarcasm, elephants are not exclusive of a specific environment, they live in different places from forest areas, islands, marshes coasts and even deserts, they can live in any tropical and subtropical climates.


Exactly - in present day, two of the three known species of Elephants live in forests - the African Forest Elephant, and the Asian Elephant.


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Why exactly? elephants are the only animals of the same size as a Tyrannosaurus alive, so they are the best comparison, they only thing that people have not agreed with the analogy is that the plumage does not work in the same way as the mammal coat, although Theropods as tyrannosaurs and ancestors presented a less complex form of tegument, being only filament like in structure.


Agreed.

I mean I wish there was a giant ratite or terror bird which was about 10-12 meters long, with a 3.5-4 meter tall hip height, and weighed at least 4 metric tons to have a more reasonable comparison to T. rex. But sadly, no such bird has ever been known to have existed.
Edited by dino-ken, Nov 1 2017, 11:03 PM.
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