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Debunking trey the explainer
Topic Started: Oct 27 2017, 10:27 PM (2,854 Views)
IIGSY
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whats that last picture?
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LittleLazyLass
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and how do we even know if they are like Lepidosaurian or Avian scales in the first place? avian scales are diffirent from that of a hadrosaur's scales, because avian scales are flattened feathers.
Kulindadromeus indicates hadrosaurs had fuzzy ancestors just like birds did.
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Dragonthunders
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Eh, maybe it's a silly thing to debate over, but I see no reason to forcefully end the discussion if that's what you mean.

I see, to be honest at first it seemed like the topic was not going anywhere and it was going to end badly, I thought it was all with the arguments on page two, there was nothing productive in keeping open something that leads to cyclical conversations, however, it was my reaction yesterday for the last messages, so I agree that the topic doesn't need to be closed.

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whats that last picture?

Turkey's naked skin, this came from a Taxidermist tips video.
You can find it by the name "Taxidermy Tips: Boy Turkey Bodies."
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CeratosaurusKing
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Someone please shut this thread down i Don't like where it's going
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Not until Glarn posts, if he even has anything to say or defend himself with.
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Tartarus
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I don't think the thread should be shut down. The topic is one that can easily be discussed in a civil manner and the whole thing should not be judged according to a few of the more harsh posts.

Anyway, on the whole "the scales are actually rhino-like skin" concept, I don't really buy it. If I recall correctly the scale impressions were identified pretty conclusively as true scales. As such the question is not whether or not T-rex had scales (it clearly did) but rather whether or not it also had some feathers as well.
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New theory: T rex had hair. It was blonde and curly and it looked very nice.
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Mao
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Tartarus
Oct 30 2017, 12:54 AM
I don't think the thread should be shut down. The topic is one that can easily be discussed in a civil manner and the whole thing should not be judged according to a few of the more harsh posts.

Anyway, on the whole "the scales are actually rhino-like skin" concept, I don't really buy it. If I recall correctly the scale impressions were identified pretty conclusively as true scales. As such the question is not whether or not T-rex had scales (it clearly did) but rather whether or not it also had some feathers as well.
See that's the issue. it's why it even evolved scales in the first place. ostriches and such have naked areas of skin, not scales, plus, the scales might not even be real scales, and it hasen't been confirmed. it's like the equivalent to a lion growing glyptodont armor.
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ÐK
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Mao
Oct 30 2017, 05:42 AM
See that's the issue. it's why it even evolved scales in the first place. ostriches and such have naked areas of skin, not scales, plus, the scales might not even be real scales, and it hasen't been confirmed. it's like the equivalent to a lion growing glyptodont armor.
Hardly, feathers and avian-scales (which are the same structure as non-ave dinosaur scales as far as we can tell) are basically the same set of genes being expressed in different ways to either form a simple, flat scale or a complex feather and everything in between. Glyptodont armour is made of bony osteoderms, you can't just flip a genetic switch or two to suddenly cause keratinous hair to develop into a bony osteoderm instead. Going from predominantly feathery to predominantly scaly wouldn't be that hard at all, under the right selection pressures.
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Mao
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Oct 30 2017, 06:10 AM
Mao
Oct 30 2017, 05:42 AM
See that's the issue. it's why it even evolved scales in the first place. ostriches and such have naked areas of skin, not scales, plus, the scales might not even be real scales, and it hasen't been confirmed. it's like the equivalent to a lion growing glyptodont armor.
Hardly, feathers and avian-scales (which are the same structure as non-ave dinosaur scales as far as we can tell) are basically the same set of genes being expressed in different ways to either form a simple, flat scale or a complex feather and everything in between. Glyptodont armour is made of bony osteoderms, you can't just flip a genetic switch or two to suddenly cause keratinous hair to develop into a bony osteoderm instead. Going from predominantly feathery to predominantly scaly wouldn't be that hard at all, under the right selection pressures.
but it's why it needed to evolve scales that's stumping. if so, it probably acted like armor. so now T rex is a giant death Emu and Armadillo now.
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GlarnBoudin
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Oct 29 2017, 01:33 PM
If there is one thing I truly despise is people unwilling to change or listen in a debate. Glarn, you are unwilling to change. I am indifferent to the feathers v scales debate as I have little personal bias relating to it
"I'm not interested in this, and that's why I've been shitting on you nonstop!"

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but you on the other hand have your mind so set on the possibility of scales over feathers that you are unwilling to even reconsider your beliefs when more and more evidence comes out agains it. You're almost as bad, if not as bad, as the creationists and far right (or left) people that you and many others on this forum tend to make fun of and overall ridicule and belittle.


I have zero problems with feathered dinosaurs; a huge number of 'em clearly had them. I'm not gonna debate the truth. I'm not even gonna debate the existence of feathers in the tyrannosaur family - they clearly had them. However, the evidence for a feathery Tyrannosaurus just isn't very strong. What I have a problem with is how people like you act so incredibly militant.

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I wouldn't have mind if you just believed dinosaurs had scales like "yea, I just believe they had scales, but it's cool if you don't though"


That's.... pretty much how I'm like without being pissed off. I don't see the point of what -

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but you are absolutely militant and hellbent on them being scaly, vicious monsters that you insult people that say otherwise and even downright bully people you disagree with.


Oh, and there's the ad hominem. You really are hell-bent on making that stereotype of 'anal Tumblerette for paleontology' fit, huh? If someone disagrees with you, then they're clearly wrong and idiots who see dinosaurs as vicious monsters and nothing else!

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Now you aren't the only one who acts like this (I can name at least two others), but you seem to be the worst. From what I've seen of your behavior, you don't belong here in a scientific community. You belong in a fandom.


Another ad hominem, and utterly false. Literally none of us are in a scientific community - this is meant to be a place where people can blend art and science. This is still clearly a fandom, much like the Internet dinosaur fandom.... because at its core, that's what you are in: a fandom. You do not have a scientific background, and neither do I - however, I've interned at the American Museum of Natural History and have actually spoken to multiple paleontologists. You know, people who, unlike you and I, actually have qualifications?

This is exactly what I'm talking about - writing me off as someone whose word isn't worth as much as yours because, eh, I don't fap to feathers or something? I've been on this forum longer than you, and unlike you, I've actually done fairly decent spec rather than make barely-intelligible messes of 'lol so randum lolololol'. If anything, my word should outrank yours!

Here's the thing, dude - science isn't this exclusive little club like you want it to be. Dinosaurs aren't just for you. By acting like this under the grounds of "Educating people about what dinosaurs were REALLY LIKE, not what you stupid awsumbros think!!!!!111!!111!!", you drive people away from being interested in not only dinosaurs, but prehistoric life in general. You are the paleontological equivalent of Tumblrettes screaming about 'checking your privilege'.

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I hope you can adjust (your attitude) and grow to better interact with the community but based on your past and current behavior I am inclined to believe you'll just reply to this with insults and pointless rebuttals. Adapt or die, as Darwin might've said. I hope for the prior.


And of course, gotta get that condescending attitude right. Can't have anyone think that you're on the level of a filthy awesomebro like me!
Edited by GlarnBoudin, Oct 30 2017, 10:48 AM.
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Ànraich
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Enough. Keep the discussion about dinosaurs, not each other.
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

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Triassic_Terror
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To summarize T. rex has feathers no question about it blah blah blah. Can we all agree that non avian Dinosaurs and other reptiles are just cool in general and hopefully not get too out of hand with it?
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Beetleboy
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For goodness sake, why do discussions about this always have to get out of hand? Ever heard of a civil, polite discussion about something? Or do we have to resort to insulting the other person to prove our point?!

The whole argument is stupid. We know that T. rex had scales for definite. It almost certainly had some kind of feathery integument somehow - whether it was simple whiskers or bristles or a mane. Here's the thing. Dinosaurs don't have to be all scaly, or all feathery - they can be both, even in a single species!
The most ridiculous thing is how heated these discussions become. Can I just remind anybody who gets angry about these sort of thing - it was an animal which lived 66 million years ago. If whether or not it had scales or feathers is all you can find to stress about, I suggest you reevaluate your priorities.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that:
1: it doesn't matter whether it had feathers or not.
2: you can have your scaley rexy and your fethurz rexy - it's pretty likely that T. rex was both.
3: an animal that lived 66 million years ago is not worth a heated discussion, especially not when it comes to insults.

Moving on, I personally think that T. rex was largely featherless, but I'm pretty certain it had bristles and whiskers.
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LittleLazyLass
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Tartarus
Oct 30 2017, 12:54 AM
Anyway, on the whole "the scales are actually rhino-like skin" concept, I don't really buy it. If I recall correctly the scale impressions were identified pretty conclusively as true scales. As such the question is not whether or not T-rex had scales (it clearly did) but rather whether or not it also had some feathers as well.
Like I said earlier, Andrea Cau has questioned this and proposed they're purely taphonomic.
totally not British, b-baka!
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I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
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