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Debunking trey the explainer
Topic Started: Oct 27 2017, 10:27 PM (2,855 Views)
Chuditch
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Mao
Oct 28 2017, 08:53 PM
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Oct 28 2017, 08:48 PM
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And we have absolutely zero evidence for non-coeluerosaur theropods having feathers of any kind
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LittleLazyLass
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This has been suggested, it just hasn't gained sustained acceptance.
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GlarnBoudin
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Oct 28 2017, 08:39 PM
An important, but often overlooked point I feel people need to consider in this debate is that feathers are not limited to thermoregulatory purposes. Feathers could be display structures, could serve to break up the silhouette of the animal, it might use them as a downy lining for nesting. If we look at feathers from the limited position as mere body covering, we devalue the other potential roles feathers could serve in the animal's life, and we fail some of the most important rules of speculative and practical evolutions.
The thing is, there are also plenty of birds that have lost feathers for that same purpose - case in point, cassowaries and king vultures. Obviously,not as extreme as losing all of their feathers, but I just thought it'd be relevant.

You want sources? How about experts on Hell Creek? I work at the AMNH, and let me tell you, scientists do not act like you people seem to think they do.


As for those fuckups, Little, how about:


-Screwing up basic perspective with the Jurassic World trailer and subsequently whining that the Mosasaurus was bigger than the Chrysler building
-Using a single diseased Dimetrodon (that he never saw himself, only pictures) to claim that Dimetrodon had no skin between said spines, a theory that was debunked over a century ago
-Being unable to grasp that a 20-year-old monster movie isn't scientifically accurate, as well as being unable to grasp that things are added in for plot devices
-The inability to comprehend basic ideas of a general franchise
-An inability to imagine what would make a good dinosaur movie monster, as evidenced by his trainwreck of a #buildabetterfaketheropod entry
-An inability to read the fucking paper he tries to explain

Also, I'm not referring to Trey himself with the last part about the video as a rebuttal - I'm referring to the brain-dead mouth-breathers who posted links to this video as part of that rebuttal.


Honestly, I'm enjoying this trainwreck. As feathernazis try to deny the validity of this paper, they're revealing just how deluded they truly are.
Edited by GlarnBoudin, Oct 28 2017, 10:12 PM.
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Uncanny Gemstar
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This is a pointless debate. The feather proposers will not convince the scale proposers and vice versa. This arguement will lead to nothing but shouting, anger, and wasted time. I realize I will likely be ignored and this arguement will rage on, but I felt I at least had to try.
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LittleLazyLass
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Like DK said though, the majority response seems to be "could go either way", despite preference generally falling on one side or the other.
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Dragonthunders
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So, Can we block this and just go as always?
The discussion is mostly a dead end, is an endless circle of someone trying to be right for the sake of be right and others trying to point out the main concensus and then go back to the first arguments like if this wasnt discussed like a billion times.
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LittleLazyLass
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Eh, maybe it's a silly thing to debate over, but I see no reason to forcefully end the discussion if that's what you mean.
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CeratosaurusKing
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This discussion is getting a tad bit extreme i wasn't saying the trex didn't had feathers at all it may have had feathers but more than anything they would have look like quills
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GlarnSkeleDin
Oct 28 2017, 10:11 PM





Honestly, I'm enjoying this trainwreck. As feathernazis try to deny the validity of this paper, they're revealing just how deluded they truly are.
and in your opinion that makes you better than them?you are the first one to criticise the use of "awesomebro" but you use "feathernazi" all the time,then what is the difference?
I can see you lost your temper too fast,maybe some people pick on you sometimes but anger is not gonna solve it

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You want sources? How about experts on Hell Creek? I work at the AMNH, and let me tell you, scientists do not act like you people seem to think they do.


show the sources then,
and how we think scientist act and how do they really act from your experience,what di they say?
Quote:
 
As for those fuckups, Little, how about:


-Screwing up basic perspective with the Jurassic World trailer and subsequently whining that the Mosasaurus was bigger than the Chrysler building
-Using a single diseased Dimetrodon (that he never saw himself, only pictures) to claim that Dimetrodon had no skin between said spines, a theory that was debunked over a century ago
-Being unable to grasp that a 20-year-old monster movie isn't scientifically accurate, as well as being unable to grasp that things are added in for plot devices
-The inability to comprehend basic ideas of a general franchise
-An inability to imagine what would make a good dinosaur movie monster, as evidenced by his trainwreck of a #buildabetterfaketheropod entry
-An inability to read the fucking paper he tries to explain

well some of this happenned some time ago,people have mistakes and certain stuff was not only his fault
and that hastag about fake theropods had some interesting designs but that is just an opinion
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Also, I'm not referring to Trey himself with the last part about the video as a rebuttal - I'm referring to the brain-dead mouth-breathers who posted links to this video as part of that rebuttal.


well video format is good for explaining and that is an overgeneralization,you have a point,yes,but how many people share other stuff without questioning,you talk like you think you are right and have from your point of view an opinion, but the anger on your words don't help to show it.

this is what I had to say,T.rex arguments are boring, we should give life to this community with more interesting biological discussions,I´m sure there is tons of more inetertesting paleo and spec stuff we could talk about and just not repeat this kind of stuff over and over with no change.
as gemstar said
"The feather proposers will not convince the scale proposers and vice versa. This arguement will lead to nothing but shouting, anger, and wasted time"

Edited by Archeoraptor, Oct 29 2017, 05:38 AM.
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Ànraich
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GlarnSkeleDin
Oct 28 2017, 10:11 PM
DroidSyber
Oct 28 2017, 08:39 PM
An important, but often overlooked point I feel people need to consider in this debate is that feathers are not limited to thermoregulatory purposes. Feathers could be display structures, could serve to break up the silhouette of the animal, it might use them as a downy lining for nesting. If we look at feathers from the limited position as mere body covering, we devalue the other potential roles feathers could serve in the animal's life, and we fail some of the most important rules of speculative and practical evolutions.
The thing is, there are also plenty of birds that have lost feathers for that same purpose - case in point, cassowaries and king vultures. Obviously,not as extreme as losing all of their feathers, but I just thought it'd be relevant.

You want sources? How about experts on Hell Creek? I work at the AMNH, and let me tell you, scientists do not act like you people seem to think they do.


As for those fuckups, Little, how about:


-Screwing up basic perspective with the Jurassic World trailer and subsequently whining that the Mosasaurus was bigger than the Chrysler building
-Using a single diseased Dimetrodon (that he never saw himself, only pictures) to claim that Dimetrodon had no skin between said spines, a theory that was debunked over a century ago
-Being unable to grasp that a 20-year-old monster movie isn't scientifically accurate, as well as being unable to grasp that things are added in for plot devices
-The inability to comprehend basic ideas of a general franchise
-An inability to imagine what would make a good dinosaur movie monster, as evidenced by his trainwreck of a #buildabetterfaketheropod entry
-An inability to read the fucking paper he tries to explain

Also, I'm not referring to Trey himself with the last part about the video as a rebuttal - I'm referring to the brain-dead mouth-breathers who posted links to this video as part of that rebuttal.


Honestly, I'm enjoying this trainwreck. As feathernazis try to deny the validity of this paper, they're revealing just how deluded they truly are.
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And people say scientific debates are boring.

Sorry for adding kindle to the fire, I just caught up with this
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If there is one thing I truly despise is people unwilling to change or listen in a debate. Glarn, you are unwilling to change. I am indifferent to the feathers v scales debate as I have little personal bias relating to it, but you on the other hand have your mind so set on the possibility of scales over feathers that you are unwilling to even reconsider your beliefs when more and more evidence comes out agains it. You're almost as bad, if not as bad, as the creationists and far right (or left) people that you and many others on this forum tend to make fun of and overall ridicule and belittle.

I wouldn't have mind if you just believed dinosaurs had scales like "yea, I just believe they had scales, but it's cool if you don't though", but you are absolutely militant and hellbent on them being scaly, vicious monsters that you insult people that say otherwise and even downright bully people you disagree with. Now you aren't the only one who acts like this (I can name at least two others), but you seem to be the worst. From what I've seen of your behavior, you don't belong here in a scientific community. You belong in a fandom. I hope you can adjust (your attitude) and grow to better interact with the community but based on your past and current behavior I am inclined to believe you'll just reply to this with insults and pointless rebuttals. Adapt or die, as Darwin might've said. I hope for the prior.
Edited by Finncredibad, Oct 29 2017, 03:29 PM.
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Mao
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Personally, I believe that T rex's scales are just rhino-like skin, and they'd probably have integument patterns like an ostrich or emu, with areas like the neck and tail having thinner feathers, and maybe having bald legs from the tibia down.

It just doesen't make sense that they would evolve scales over bald skin. like how many birds do you know have scales besides the legs and feet, and ones that have bald or thin areas?

I still stand my position on a relatively fluffy rex. Mammalian fur works in very diffirent ways feathers do, so the elephant comparision is rather not that great.
Edited by Mao, Oct 29 2017, 03:43 PM.
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At the end of the day does it really matter all that much? I know we all care about our respective hobbies / areas of expertise but does the integument of ancient life really have to cause such a fuss? We're supposed to be a community and despite one another's views or biases we are supposed to be respectful to one another. Any antagonisation on this subject is shameful on either side of the fence and should be stopped immediately. When we argue like this I feel as though we devolve to a state of immaturity that shouldn't be present in a community of very astute individuals such as ourselves.

This topic area has been argued before and no doubt will be argued again but I don't think the manner in which this argument has formed is at all representative of the informative nature of scientific debate. This is no longer a rational argument, it has become squabbling and until all parties have the maturity not to ridicule or goad the other I think the topic at hand should be dropped.
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Mao
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The real mystery is why Dinosaurs evolved scales in the first place. It seems pretty obvious, but for me, it really isn't. most birds just have bald areas where there's normally feathers, not scales, so why not bald skin?

If feathers were so useful to birds today, the same should be said about dinosaurs, but why is just a mystery. was it for defense? most animals evolve extensive scale coverings mainly for defense, but what would a scaly body advance over a bald one if it was just for an animal that didn't really need that much defense. maybe a chainmail-like covering similar to Komodo Dragons? we'll never know.

and how do we even know if they are like Lepidosaurian or Avian scales in the first place? avian scales are diffirent from that of a hadrosaur's scales, because avian scales are flattened feathers. Dinosaurian "scales" could just be some kind of rhino-like skin.

Posted Image
Posted Image

What i'm seeing is that, should we even consider dinosaur scales as proof of an abense of feathers? Avian scutes are diffirent from dinosaur scales, so how do we know that we aren't just looking at a "psudo scale pattern" made out of hardened skin. Plus, look at Wood Storks, Black vultures. they might have had something similar going on, or what about how Tyrannosaur and Ableisaurian faces were hardened skin?

Also, as a side note...

Posted Image

Has anyone noticed that A and D kinda look like...


This?
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