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Debunking trey the explainer
Topic Started: Oct 27 2017, 10:27 PM (2,851 Views)
CeratosaurusKing
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So i bet you guys know who trey is right? Well trey the explainer is a guy who talks about dinosaurs and other stuff recently a few months ago he released a video about trex skin impressions in that video he said that feathers cool down....bruh they do not


Any scientist should be able to know that feathers warm up instead of cool down they trap hrat more than release heat if anything. While tyrannosaurs that lived in colder climates like gorgosaurus probably had thick coat of feathers while the mighty trex probably had a thin coat of feathers that looked like elephants hair.
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Terraraptor411
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Feathers can be used for insulation because like fur, they trap air near the body for it to warm, creating a layer of warm air between the skin and the outside air. They are just as capable as trapping cool air, which would then help lower the body temp of whatever organism had them. Combined with blood flows that passed cooler blood near those feathered areas, could function as a cooling system. Or, like modern Kangaroos, licking ones fur/feathers would create evaporation which can cool the body.

I'm sorry, but please try to gain a better understanding of basic biology before "debunking" people who genuinely contribute to scientific understanding. Trey is not always right, but being wrong is not a bad thing. We learn more from mistakes that correct guesses.
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LittleLazyLass
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/feather debate

Trey is fine. Do I like every single video he makes? No; that doesn't mean he's bad or anything.
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CeratosaurusKing
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Terraraptor411
Oct 27 2017, 11:18 PM
Feathers can be used for insulation because like fur, they trap air near the body for it to warm, creating a layer of warm air between the skin and the outside air. They are just as capable as trapping cool air, which would then help lower the body temp of whatever organism had them. Combined with blood flows that passed cooler blood near those feathered areas, could function as a cooling system. Or, like modern Kangaroos, licking ones fur/feathers would create evaporation which can cool the body.

I'm sorry, but please try to gain a better understanding of basic biology before "debunking" people who genuinely contribute to scientific understanding. Trey is not always right, but being wrong is not a bad thing. We learn more from mistakes that correct guesses.
Listen i wasn't trying to say the trex didn't had any feathers it might had have feathers but i wasn't a floof as depicted in saurian
Edited by CeratosaurusKing, Oct 28 2017, 12:21 AM.
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LittleLazyLass
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I fail to see how this is a "floof" by any reasonable standard of the word. Regardless, to my understanding they are making changes to their rex.
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Terraraptor411
Oct 27 2017, 11:18 PM
We learn more from mistakes that correct guesses.
That's debatable
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Chuditch
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Something to note is that birds cool down using the bare patches on their bodies. Tyrannosaurus's whole tail and legs were definitely scaly and would be probably be enough to cool it down if it had feathers.
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Nyarlathotep
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Feathers do have a higher limit for size than fur due to their regulatory capabilities as shown, though of course they still have limits as eventually the reduction of temperature stops being sufficient to lose body heat for Giants. Rex was far larger than Yutyrannus and more derived too. Phylogenetic is far from infallible too-Spinosaurus demonstrates that.
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Fazaner
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In every discussion of this type i have seen, people only look into aether skin preservations or philogenetics, and one thing that defines integument is left out, environment that animal lived into.
In case of our fan-favorite rexy, paleontological findings showed that Tyrannosaurus had very large habitation areal, from southern north america (Javelina Formation) to Canada (although I don't know what formation), and the world famous hell creak(you should about this), that range contains a lot deferent environments, from arid planes on south to colder forests north. Integument is bound to be deferent depending on environmental factors, temperature, humidity, type of plant-life, existence of seasons or not .... For example Javelina form. had arid planed dominating, similar to savanna, just without grass, and tyranosaurs in that area would have less feathers in order to prevent overheating, while ones that lived in Hell Creak, subtropical forested flood plain, with rivers and marches, in that area temperature will be much lower, although it would be warm all year round, that is known from crocodile remains that are found there.
So yeah both sides could get rexy they prefer.
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DroidSyber
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Fazaner
Oct 28 2017, 07:06 AM
In every discussion of this type i have seen, people only look into aether skin preservations or philogenetics, and one thing that defines integument is left out, environment that animal lived into.
In case of our fan-favorite rexy, paleontological findings showed that Tyrannosaurus had very large habitation areal, from southern north america (Javelina Formation) to Canada (although I don't know what formation), and the world famous hell creak(you should about this), that range contains a lot deferent environments, from arid planes on south to colder forests north. Integument is bound to be deferent depending on environmental factors, temperature, humidity, type of plant-life, existence of seasons or not .... For example Javelina form. had arid planed dominating, similar to savanna, just without grass, and tyranosaurs in that area would have less feathers in order to prevent overheating, while ones that lived in Hell Creak, subtropical forested flood plain, with rivers and marches, in that area temperature will be much lower, although it would be warm all year round, that is known from crocodile remains that are found there.
So yeah both sides could get rexy they prefer.
The Canadian formation is likely the Scollard formation, which has some work being done on the climate as of now (unpublished, but research is being done as it's got some closest amber to the K-Pg boundary known)
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LittleLazyLass
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Well, we know integument is dependant on a variety of things; phylogeny, environment, lifestyle, and size all come to mind. Emus are hairyfloofy because they're birds, sumatran rhinos are way hairier than black rhinos because of the sun exposure of open savannah vs forests, naked mole rats have their wholly unique setup because of the unique way they lived, and elephants are hairless because they're so big. These are just singular examples; more could be brought up for each. Applying this to Yutyrannus and Tyrannosaurus, if the former is a proceratosaurid they're actually quite distant relatives, they lived tens of million years apart, one in a colder and seemingly more forested environment (but see recent Sinosauropteryx study) than the other, that first one also being several metres shorter and only a fraction of the weight of T. rex. I'd personally lean on a mostly scaled rex, but we shouldn't say that with any certainty (and, I ask further, if this is correct, what of Nanuqsaurus, or Gorgosaurus, or Daspletosaurus?). We've relied to much on phylogenetic bracketing as something be-all-end-all, and whether Tyrannosaurus was for all intents and purposes scaly (in the sense we and elephants are hairless) or relatively floofy (feathers might have been able to co-exist on the same part of the body as scales), the whole issue has made people realize this black and white view doesn't hold up.
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Oct 28 2017, 10:44 AM
Emus are hairy because they're birds
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GlarnBoudin
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The thing about that video was that it wasn't really a valid point so much as Trey whining about how National Geographic and the Smithsonian are 'awesomebro' media for reporting on this.


I've talked with quite a lot of paleontology buffs lately, and the way that they put it, feathers don't work to insulate: Instead, they act like a wall to trap internally produced heat, but not letting out environmental heat. Therefore, if the environment is hotter than the animal's internal temperature, they keep it 'cool'. However, they don't help with losing internally produced heat - they make it harder.

Furthermore, just because feathers don't work like hair doesn't mean that T-rex had them. It's not a magic wand that instantly fixes all heating issues. You're still dealing with an animal that outweighed a goddamn African elephant and inhabited a hot, swampy environment. Just look at other dinosaurs; as a general rule, literally every other lineage seems to lose integument as they grow. What makes tyrannosaurs so special?

Trey has long ago lost any validity he once had; what pisses me off is when people are posting that video, made by someone who has zero experience with paleontology or fossils and general and regularly makes mistakes on everything from perspective to biology to the concept of fiction itself, as if it's the perfect rebuttal to a peer-reviewed paper that was put together by actual, competent scientists.
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GlarnSkeleDin
Oct 28 2017, 01:53 PM
The thing about that video was that it wasn't really a valid point so much as Trey whining about how National Geographic and the Smithsonian are 'awesomebro' media for reporting on this.


I've talked with quite a lot of paleontology buffs lately, and the way that they put it, feathers don't work to insulate: Instead, they act like a wall to trap internally produced heat, but not letting out environmental heat. Therefore, if the environment is hotter than the animal's internal temperature, they keep it 'cool'. However, they don't help with losing internally produced heat - they make it harder.

Furthermore, just because feathers don't work like hair doesn't mean that T-rex had them. It's not a magic wand that instantly fixes all heating issues. You're still dealing with an animal that outweighed a goddamn African elephant and inhabited a hot, swampy environment. Just look at other dinosaurs; as a general rule, literally every other lineage seems to lose integument as they grow. What makes tyrannosaurs so special?

Trey has long ago lost any validity he once had; what pisses me off is when people are posting that video, made by someone who has zero experience with paleontology or fossils and general and regularly makes mistakes on everything from perspective to biology to the concept of fiction itself, as if it's the perfect rebuttal to a peer-reviewed paper that was put together by actual, competent scientists.
I.. see a lot wrong with this.

I don't know a lot about the insulating abilities of feathers, but what I DO know is that while it is not one hundred percent certain, there is enough evidence to support feathered tyrannosaurs, and very little evidence to support featherless ones.

Featherless dinosaurs have their place. I'm a pretty big nerd when it comes to monster design, and featherless dinosaurs make pretty cool monsters. But they don't have a place in the scientific world because there is increasing evidence stacked against them. Feathered dinosaurs are much more likely to have existed than featherless ones, and It is likely most dinosaurs had some sort of covering, even if it was minimal. Stop getting butt hurt when people generally accept something with scientific evidence over something that looks cool. You are letting personal bias impair your logical judgement to the point it becomes problematic for the community.

Featherless dinosaurs have their place in fiction, not science. Make the distinction.
Edited by Finncredibad, Oct 28 2017, 02:15 PM.
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