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Vertical Eyes?; Above and below instead of right and left?
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Topic Started: Oct 16 2017, 02:33 PM (506 Views)
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Empyreon
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Oct 16 2017, 02:33 PM
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Are you plausible?
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So random ideas pop in my head (as it does with many), and I found myself wondering if there were any plausible way for eyes to orient in an "above/below" fashion, as opposed to "left-right," like most bilaterally symmetrical organisms have. I can think of primitive organisms displaying this (they can get away with a lot more) but would there be any benefit to a different orientation? Could pressures from a specific biome or setting lead to this strange feature, or is my muse pursuing pipe dreams?
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food for thought
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Yiqi15
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Oct 16 2017, 02:47 PM
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Look up at the ceiling without moving your neck. Then you'll know that eyes can orient up and down.
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ÐK
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Oct 16 2017, 03:42 PM
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Pretty sure Empyreon meant having one eye directly above the other, not just being able to rotate eyeballs upwards.
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peashyjah
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Oct 16 2017, 05:00 PM
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- Yiqi15
- Oct 16 2017, 02:47 PM
Look up at the ceiling without moving your neck. Then you'll know that eyes can orient up and down. That could be better evidence to know whether your eyes can rotate up and down without you moving your head.
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trex841
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Oct 16 2017, 05:38 PM
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- Oct 16 2017, 03:42 PM
Pretty sure Empyreon meant having one eye directly above the other, not just being able to rotate eyeballs upwards.

Something like this.
As for actual set up, while you can probably work out a functional form of binocular vision this way, but peripheral vision would be more heavily effected. Unless there's an evolutionary precedent for a vertical periphery than horizontal.
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Rodlox
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Oct 16 2017, 11:27 PM
Post #6
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- Empyreon
- Oct 16 2017, 02:33 PM
So random ideas pop in my head (as it does with many), and I found myself wondering if there were any plausible way for eyes to orient in an "above/below" fashion, as opposed to "left-right," like most bilaterally symmetrical organisms have. I can think of primitive organisms displaying this (they can get away with a lot more) but would there be any benefit to a different orientation? Could pressures from a specific biome or setting lead to this strange feature, or is my muse pursuing pipe dreams?
outside of an organism turning on its side flounder-style without an eye migration, yes, i'd say its possible...probably not a critter that lives near the sea floor (unless it has no other senses to detect prey with), but definately not something that lives on the sea floor. probably not something that lives at the sea surface - unless there are airborne dangers in the pre-Ordovician (or analogue thereof)
the biggest hurdle would be the conquest of land...assuming it drags itself out. but if its legs can support it even at that stage, no problem; also no problem if it conquers the land after hauling itself out in mangroves or something like that (rather than beaches)
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Rodlox
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Oct 16 2017, 11:29 PM
Post #7
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- trex841
- Oct 16 2017, 05:38 PM
- spoo-ÐK-ee
- Oct 16 2017, 03:42 PM
Pretty sure Empyreon meant having one eye directly above the other, not just being able to rotate eyeballs upwards.
 Something like this. As for actual set up, while you can probably work out a functional form of binocular vision this way, but peripheral vision would be more heavily effected. Unless there's an evolutionary precedent for a vertical periphery than horizontal. if it schools or has size on its side, does it need peripheral vision? (if its a true fish, it'd also have a lateral line, more important than sight)
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.---------------------------------------------. Parts of the Cluster Worlds: "Marsupialless Australia" (what-if) & "Out on a Branch" (future evolution) & "The Earth under a still sun" (WIP)
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Sigmund Nastrazzurro
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Oct 17 2017, 05:04 PM
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Nice idea. I like it!
I would say that the answer relies firstly on the visual field of each individual eye in the vertical as well as horizontal directions and secondly on where interesting events tend to happen happen in a 3D coordinate system (360 horizontally by 180 degrees vertically). Suppose one eye, raised on a stalk if need be, covers the entire surroudings except for the region of the stalk, then two eyes at opposite positions would suffice to ensure a full 360x180 degrees coverage. These could theoretically be placed anywhere as long as they are opposite. But if the visual field of each eye is limited in any direction (horizontal or vertical), you need more eyes to obtain 360x180 degrees coverage. However, in real life, I expect that some regions are more interesting than others. For animals that are never attacked from below or from above, it would suffice to have vision that extends all around horizontally; blind spots above or below would be admissible. But animals living in a true 3D environment, in water or in the air, might do well to have a complete visual coverage without blind spots anywhere.
Hence the four eyes and their variable placement on the head of Furahan hexameres ;-)
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Empyreon
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Oct 17 2017, 06:08 PM
Post #9
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Are you plausible?
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- trex841
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As for actual set up, while you can probably work out a functional form of binocular vision this way, but peripheral vision would be more heavily effected. Unless there's an evolutionary precedent for a vertical periphery than horizontal.
Yes, what kind of environment might support/encourage a vertical periphery? I keep imagining steep canyon walls, but I really don't think that's enough to prefer any eye array over any other...
- rodlox
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if it schools or has size on its side, does it need peripheral vision? (if its a true fish, it'd also have a lateral line, more important than sight)
Another interesting notion. Schooling species may rely on other senses for horizontal orientation, but what about fear of predation? Are predators likely to come from above or below, or any direction at all (as is common in an aquatic setting), and is that enough to let this "vertical eye array" gain a darwinian foothold?
- rodlox
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the biggest hurdle would be the conquest of land...assuming it drags itself out. but if its legs can support it even at that stage, no problem; also no problem if it conquers the land after hauling itself out in mangroves or something like that (rather than beaches)
And if the "vertical eye array" has gained enough of a foothold in the organism, perhaps it will develop other solutions to solve any disadvantages the orientation imposes?
- Sigmund Nastrazzurro
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I would say that the answer relies firstly on the visual field of each individual eye in the vertical as well as horizontal directions and secondly on where interesting events tend to happen happen in a 3D coordinate system (360 horizontally by 180 degrees vertically).
That's an interesting place to work from: imagine a sphere of interest/danger around the organism, and determine ideal placement on the body for maximum coverage of most interesting surrounding areas, with a minimal tax on sensory or neurological development. Could a "vertical eye array" come about due to those evolutionary pressures as much as the horizontal one we're familiar with?
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus!
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food for thought
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LittleLazyLass
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Oct 17 2017, 07:12 PM
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The obvious next question is here is the interesting ways you might have to redesign the skull in light of the vertical eyed anatomy, although I suppose that's not exactly the topic at hand.
Anyway, yeah, I could see this working well in a vertically oriented environment. It's have a vertical version of our peripheral.
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trex841
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Oct 17 2017, 08:33 PM
Post #11
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- Rodlox
- Oct 16 2017, 11:29 PM
- trex841
- Oct 16 2017, 05:38 PM
- spoo-ÐK-ee
- Oct 16 2017, 03:42 PM
Pretty sure Empyreon meant having one eye directly above the other, not just being able to rotate eyeballs upwards.
 Something like this. As for actual set up, while you can probably work out a functional form of binocular vision this way, but peripheral vision would be more heavily effected. Unless there's an evolutionary precedent for a vertical periphery than horizontal.
if it schools or has size on its side, does it need peripheral vision? (if its a true fish, it'd also have a lateral line, more important than sight) I was thinking about terrestrial prey-predator dynamics, but yeah, if that is the only system that develops, that would be a bit of a moot point. And attacking from below or above is a rather popular tactic in the water (at least now a days, don't know how those figures work out back when eyes were developing), though I don't know if it's any more than from the sides. It feels like in a 360 environment, 360 vision would be the best when possible.
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F.I.N.D.R Field Incident Logs A comprehensive list of all organisms, artifacts, and alternative worlds encountered by the foundation team.
At the present time, concepts within are inconsistent and ever shifting. Protectorates of the Proan Empire- The Sundered Realms - A fantasy realm where the world is divided into different sections. (Following names subject to change)
- The Gavell Kingdom
- The Everdark Forest
- The Lunar Tundra
- The Sand Sea
- The Asteroid Cloud
- The Rotting Shard
- The Orbital River
- The Outer Shadow
- Bottle Beasts - This Universes version of Pokemon.
Worlds Impacted by the Enlightened/Visceral War- The 'Verse Whale - The Homeworld of the two forces, a planet sized organism, and the unique life that has flourished on it.
- замороженный конец - An Ice Age world populated by tripodal organisms.
- [To Be Named] - A world of creatures with an arm for a head
- [To Be Named] - The Homeworld of a species where only the males are sapient.
- [To Be Named] - The home of a race of carnivorous, trap building beings.
- [To Be Named] - A planet of organisms that can link their minds, where two forms of intelligence have arisen.
Unaffiliated Universes- [To Be Named] - A parallel earth where the Synapsids took over after the Permian Extinction, among other resulting changes.
- نيو نيو امستردام - An abandoned Dyson Cylinder containing an Ecumenopolis now catering to our former pets and pests. (A concept developed entirely separate from DroidSyber's Arcology, I swear.)
- The Bleed - A vast universe where physics are more a suggestion than a rule.
Parakosmos Minor - Known Earth Pocket Universes, Natural or Artificial.- Island of Marsupials and Armadillos off the coast of South America
- A world inhabited by Woodpecker descendants (Again, not meant to be a clone of Serina, I in no way have that much detail ready for this.)
- Katiwala - Your typical Lost World...if i decide to go that route...
(And this is just the spec related stuff)
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Rodlox
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Oct 17 2017, 11:16 PM
Post #12
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- trex841
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As for actual set up, while you can probably work out a functional form of binocular vision this way, but peripheral vision would be more heavily effected. Unless there's an evolutionary precedent for a vertical periphery than horizontal.
Yes, what kind of environment might support/encourage a vertical periphery? I keep imagining steep canyon walls, but I really don't think that's enough to prefer any eye array over any other... - rodlox
-
if it schools or has size on its side, does it need peripheral vision? (if its a true fish, it'd also have a lateral line, more important than sight)
Another interesting notion. Schooling species may rely on other senses for horizontal orientation, but what about fear of predation? Are predators likely to come from above or below, or any direction at all (as is common in an aquatic setting), and is that enough to let this "vertical eye array" gain a darwinian foothold? - rodlox
-
the biggest hurdle would be the conquest of land...assuming it drags itself out. but if its legs can support it even at that stage, no problem; also no problem if it conquers the land after hauling itself out in mangroves or something like that (rather than beaches)
And if the "vertical eye array" has gained enough of a foothold in the organism, perhaps it will develop other solutions to solve any disadvantages the orientation imposes? well, as to predators...we know our earliest chordate ancestors (between Pikia's branch and the jawless fishes' branch) lived in the shallows...where there wasn't much - if anything - overhead, and few things that would attack from below...so sidewards vision would've had an advantage over any theoretical or hypothetical vertical-eyed chordate ancestors that may've existed.
...so, fewer shallows during that critical period (though that'll hinder a fossil record of the rise of the eyes, granted) ?hmm...maybe something like that squid that lives its life on its side, one eye facing the surface & one eye facing the seafloor & each eye is a different size.
and yes, other solutions are entirely possible. (a massive brow, for example)
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.---------------------------------------------. Parts of the Cluster Worlds: "Marsupialless Australia" (what-if) & "Out on a Branch" (future evolution) & "The Earth under a still sun" (WIP)
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