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I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's probably not aliens. Yet.
Topic Started: Aug 31 2017, 06:49 AM (844 Views)
Rodlox
Superhuman
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kusanagi
Sep 1 2017, 04:08 PM
Neither the Drake equation nor the Fermi paradox were meant to be very serious in the first place. The Drake equation was thought up by Frank Drake, not as some profound insight but his way to illustrate the obvious. Fermi made an off the cuff remark once, not a deep philosophical reasoning as it gets twisted into.
he wrote it as a stepping stone, ditto Fermi's question. to badmouth either as useless, is like wanting to get rid of the foot of a bridge, because the foot doesn't get you across the chasm - but without that foot, the bridge couldn't have been built.
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Parts of the Cluster Worlds:
"Marsupialless Australia" (what-if) & "Out on a Branch" (future evolution) & "The Earth under a still sun" (WIP)
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Niedfaru
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Ah, sorry, I had assumed Mr Arthur had actually put the videos on the Rare Earth and Rare Intelligence questions in the playlist. I'm not quite sure why the Great Filters videos beyond the trailer aren't in there.
Edited by Niedfaru, Sep 1 2017, 06:39 PM.
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kusanagi
Adolescent
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Rodlox
Sep 1 2017, 05:16 PM
kusanagi
Sep 1 2017, 04:08 PM
Neither the Drake equation nor the Fermi paradox were meant to be very serious in the first place. The Drake equation was thought up by Frank Drake, not as some profound insight but his way to illustrate the obvious. Fermi made an off the cuff remark once, not a deep philosophical reasoning as it gets twisted into.
he wrote it as a stepping stone, ditto Fermi's question. to badmouth either as useless, is like wanting to get rid of the foot of a bridge, because the foot doesn't get you across the chasm - but without that foot, the bridge couldn't have been built.
I'm not badmouthing either of them, but in these kinds of debate Fermi's paradox and Drake's equation are given a symbolic weight that neither of them predicted at the time. Especially not Fermi. Once you ignore the names and think how these debates are structured, they are cited to represent important opinions about the burden and nature of evidence. Neither of them is right or wrong, Drake comes to stand for the importance of speculation and Fermi for the reality check.
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Rodlox
Superhuman
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kusanagi
Sep 1 2017, 08:09 PM
Rodlox
Sep 1 2017, 05:16 PM
kusanagi
Sep 1 2017, 04:08 PM
Neither the Drake equation nor the Fermi paradox were meant to be very serious in the first place. The Drake equation was thought up by Frank Drake, not as some profound insight but his way to illustrate the obvious. Fermi made an off the cuff remark once, not a deep philosophical reasoning as it gets twisted into.
he wrote it as a stepping stone, ditto Fermi's question. to badmouth either as useless, is like wanting to get rid of the foot of a bridge, because the foot doesn't get you across the chasm - but without that foot, the bridge couldn't have been built.
I'm not badmouthing either of them, but in these kinds of debate Fermi's paradox and Drake's equation are given a symbolic weight that neither of them predicted at the time. Especially not Fermi. Once you ignore the names and think how these debates are structured, they are cited to represent important opinions about the burden and nature of evidence. Neither of them is right or wrong, Drake comes to stand for the importance of speculation and Fermi for the reality check.
yes, you are badmouthing them - you're talking like they're pieces of shite that the scientific community & everyone else is an idiot for not abandoning the Equation and the Question at the first opportunity.

also, I have no idea what you mean by "symbolic weight", as you seem to be saying they are not stepping stones, but altars that people pray upon.
.---------------------------------------------.
Parts of the Cluster Worlds:
"Marsupialless Australia" (what-if) & "Out on a Branch" (future evolution) & "The Earth under a still sun" (WIP)
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kusanagi
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Huh? Scientific community just treat SETI stuff as playful speculation. On those lines Drake created the equation for Green Bank, only intended as a way to briefly stir debate on each variable. Himself he was aware it was flawed and critics of the equation miss his intention.

Anyway apart from specifics like the Wow signal or Tabby's star, debates about SETI hit a dead end years ago. What is the proper way to deal with possibilities in the absence of evidence? The Drake Equation and Fermi's Paradox became symbolic of informed speculation and informed doubt, and that is all.

There is probably no point continuing this because all that can be said, has been said and not just in one forum thread. The fact this is at root a problem of philosophy, is why it never gets resolved and won't unless following up Tabby's star or a second Wow signal leads somewhere productive.
Edited by kusanagi, Sep 2 2017, 07:20 AM.
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Rodlox
Superhuman
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kusanagi
Sep 2 2017, 06:54 AM
Anyway apart from specifics like the Wow signal or Tabby's star, debates about SETI hit a dead end years ago. What is the proper way to deal with possibilities in the absence of evidence? The Drake Equation and Fermi's Paradox became symbolic of informed speculation and informed doubt, and that is all.

There is probably no point continuing this because all that can be said, has been said and not just in one forum thread. The fact this is at root a problem of philosophy, is why it never gets resolved and won't unless following up Tabby's star or a second Wow signal leads somewhere productive.
dead end? I'm going to have to ask you to put your money where your mouth is, and actually prove what you're claiming.

(root of philosophy?? which school?)
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Parts of the Cluster Worlds:
"Marsupialless Australia" (what-if) & "Out on a Branch" (future evolution) & "The Earth under a still sun" (WIP)
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