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| Gliding haramiyidans?! | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 9 2017, 01:58 PM (863 Views) | |
| Even | Aug 9 2017, 01:58 PM Post #1 |
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Roman Catholic theistic evolutionist
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This is gonna shock and delight even JohnFaa, I guess So the Chinese rainforests are as diverse in gliders as SE Asian's are today (various paravians, at least two mammal lineages, at least one agamid...) |
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Currently a part of Specworld's revival and The Dark Phoenix's Dinosaur Spec... Still open for idea exchanges and commentaries GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. My Pets
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| TAXESbutNano | Aug 9 2017, 03:15 PM Post #2 |
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I'm going back to basics.
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Oh hey they have wishbones. That's pretty damn weird. |
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| Carlos | Aug 9 2017, 03:23 PM Post #3 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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This is so cool. And two right at once! |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Carlos | Aug 9 2017, 03:56 PM Post #4 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Not weird by synapsid standards, actually. Many non-therian mammals have coracoids, though get progressively smaller from multituberculates onwards and disappear altogether in therians and their closest relatives. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| lamna | Aug 9 2017, 04:41 PM Post #5 |
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Cool, but I first saw a article that called them "flying" mammals. Now that would have been something else. Hmm, odd that mammals took to the air within 14 million years of the K/Pg mass extinction, likely sooner, but not in the 160 million years they were around during the Mesozoic. It seems that everything else that mammals under 15 kg do today they did in the Mesozoic. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| Carlos | Aug 9 2017, 07:04 PM Post #6 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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*coughvolaticotherescough* Also realised that haramiyidans, as outside of crown-group mammalia, just offered us the first gliding non-mammalian synapsids! |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| LittleLazyLass | Aug 9 2017, 08:41 PM Post #7 |
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Proud quilt in a bag
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Actually, while on that subject, what are your thoughts on the objections to the idea of flying volaticotheres? |
totally not British, b-baka! You like me (Unlike)I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess. Me What, you want me to tell you what these mean? Read First Words Maybe | |
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| Carlos | Aug 10 2017, 06:33 AM Post #8 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Gave a basic rundown, will elaborate upon later: https://circlesfan.tumblr.com/post/164019723317/have-you-heard-about-the-flying-volaticotheres |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| kusanagi | Aug 10 2017, 06:48 AM Post #9 |
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Adolescent
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Haramiyidans are crownwards of morganucodontids, but outside of node-defined clade Mammalia. Its not that much of a difference, functionally, and small mammals glide easily because they already sprawl. Morganucodontids are the oddities if you accept tritylodonts as the sister of mammaliformes because they lack epipubic bones (why?). It is mitten gliding - incipient bat wings - that are rare and at least appear derived secondarily from the adaptations of parachuting tetrapods like rhacophorid frogs. As for pterosaurs there is no more an analogous form than there is a proto-pterosaur in the fossil record. Bird wings have both a patagium and feathers so their nearest analogs are to be found in certain primates (primates and theropods were constrained by erect limbs that they could not incorporate sprawling limbs into some kind of skin membrane). Bats and pterosaurs have no Archaeopteryx or Compsognathus in the fossil record. Brains that are flight capable exist in all maniraptors/pennaraptors but therizinosaurs and ornithomimosaurs lack the necessary motor control. Pterosaurs are currently Avemetatarsalian but somewhat incertae sedis: it is possible they are too stemward to be true Archosaurs and in life their pulmonary soft tissue states - if they could be coded - might drag them into Saurischia. The confusion revolves upon an intense specialisation for flight. Bats like pterosaurs come fully formed as fliers. Horovitz finds bats to share important character states with pangolins and xenarthrans (particularly Pilosa) in a tree that intuitively results from probable homoplasies (pangolins and anteaters, tenrecines and Solenodon, elephant shrews and lagomorphs, golden moles and talpids). If homoplasies draw Pilosa and Manidae into the same area of the tree it is harder to explain away that bats have similarities to both xenarthrans and pangolins (but not Metacheiromys which is the insectivorous sister taxon of Chriacus). Elsewhere Hooker finds remarkable similarities between eulipotyphlans and bats, including the unusual trait that they lack a pubic symphysis. Nyctithere internal phylogeny and tarsal morphology seems sadly inconsistent with them being stem bats linking Euarchonta, bats and the insectivore grade. Furthermore the unconstrained Halliday tree recovers the arboreal and insectivores apatotheres as the sister group of bats. Sadly Onychonycteris is not as well preserved as I would like, although it is exceptionally well preserved for a Palaeogene small eutherian and Propotto is fragmentary. Chiroptera are incertae sedis within the placentals to this date. Returning to pterosaur origins the Lossiemouth archosaur Scleromochlus and Madygen archosauromorph Sharovipteryx are both unlikely to be stem pterosaurs though a widespread hollowness of bones among prolacertiforms such as Sharivopteryx and Ozimek might suggest a primitively arboreal origin in some way convergent upon lizards with hollow bones such as Holaspis. Gliding and parachuting which are not the same thing evolved several times and need comparative description. In mammals the mitten gliding colugos and Voltaticotherium are outliers as is the greater glider, which folds its arms during gliding and so comes close to the delta-wing gliding of Sharovipteryx. All other gliding mammals use the structure convergently evolved in flying squirrels, anomalures and Australian gliders. Gliding haramiyids follow the most typical mammalian gliding morphotype. What about parachuting in mammals? When primates take to the air they do it like birds: saki monkeys. galagos and lemurs show stiffened hairs similar to the feather rhacis and a patagium along the trailing edge of the forearm. Parachuting is facultative in other mammals such as cats but rarely are organs modified to make parachuting easier. Edited by kusanagi, Aug 10 2017, 09:26 AM.
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| Carlos | Aug 14 2017, 06:08 AM Post #10 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Went through it in more detail here: https://circlesfan.tumblr.com/post/164171973977/have-you-heard-about-the-flying-volaticotheres Here's why the "alternate Ichthyoconodon" scenarios do not work: * “Aquatic mammal”: It’s a possibility, but I personally consider it unlikely given that it’s teeth don’t seem very different from those of its relatives. * “Terrestrial/arboreal/gliding mammal that died on the shore”: unlikely given how waves work. * “Gliding mammal that was caught in a storm”: unlikely since gliding mammals rarely get caught in storms, as they select landing targets before launching. * “Terrestrial/arboreal/gliding mammal that got stuck on a floating raft of vegetation”: Fairly likely, though I’m not aware of similar cases being preserved in the fossil record. * “Grabbed as prey by a pterosaur”: Strictly unlikely because otherwise the teeth would have shown signs of degradation through digestion. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| kusanagi | Aug 14 2017, 07:20 AM Post #11 |
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Adolescent
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Birds carry prey in their beaks so why not pterosaurs? |
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| Carlos | Aug 14 2017, 07:24 AM Post #12 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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All known pterosaurs swallowed prey on the spot rather than carrying it away and cutting it into pieces, as typical for sauropsids relying on their jaws rather than their feet to kill prey. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| kusanagi | Aug 14 2017, 07:51 PM Post #13 |
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Adolescent
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How do you know? Magpies and crows do not kill using their feet but I havevseen them carry food items around in their bill. |
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| Carlos | Aug 27 2017, 09:04 PM Post #14 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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https://ichthyoconodon.wordpress.com/2017/08/28/gliding-haramiyidans-and-further-arguments-for-flying-volaticotheres/ |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Carlos | Aug 27 2017, 10:36 PM Post #15 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Once again I am proven right. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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