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T.Rex Couldn't Run?!
Topic Started: Jul 31 2017, 02:04 PM (1,342 Views)
ÐK
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For a 40ft long, multi-ton biped, the estimated speeds of Tyrannosaurus are a pretty decent clip, it would hardly be lumbering around or anything.
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Troy Troodon
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ÐK
Jul 31 2017, 04:25 PM
For a 40ft long, multi-ton biped, the estimated speeds of Tyrannosaurus are a pretty decent clip, it would hardly be lumbering around or anything.
Like how much?! 15 mph? 20?
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ÐK
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Most current estimates generally fall within that sort of range, yeah.
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In the absence of proper data, speculate wildy.

~Mark Witton, Pterosaurs (Chapter 3, page 18)


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pfft, DK making a project

~Troll Man, Skype (15/2/15)


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I'm sorry but in what alternative universe would thousands of zebras be sent back in time by some sort of illegal time travel group to change history and preparing them by making gigantic working animatronic allosaurs?

~Komodo, Zebra's sent back in time (4/1/13)
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LittleLazyLass
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I would assume if Tyrannosaurus couldn't run then Edmontosaurus of similar size isn't gonna do any better; Denversaurus, Ankylosaurus, and Triceratops (which was more common than hadrosaurs) likely weren't going anywhere fast anyways. It didn't need to be fast in a vacuum, just fast enough to outrun its prey.

Now, Tyrannosaurus does have running adaptations, but these are presumably inherited from younger growth stages and smaller ancestors, merely passed on to the slower adults.
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Triceratops and Ankylosaurus are still pretty dangerous prey to take down, especially Anks.
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kusanagi
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In Ornithischians a crural index consistent with cursorialism is seen only in some small ornithopods and some early Jurassic taxa ie. heterodontosaurids and Lesothosaurus. Herrerasaurids though not true theropods were of the carnosaur morphotype and therefore unexpectedly non-cursorial. Thyreophorans, pachycephalosaurids, ceratopsians, classic sauropodomorphs and therizinosaurs were non-cursorial even at small body sizes. As in mammals large taxa were relatively slow but not all taxa below a cut off point were cursorial: Parksosaurus and Masiakosaurus were about as built for running as giant ornithopods or the carnosaur guild.

What does this mean for the ecosystems where tyrannosaurs are preserved? It means apart from smaller theropods prey animals would not be built to run away and adult tyrannosaurs had no need for speed. (Incidentally none of even the small ornithopods in late Cretaceous North America were cursorial: their hindlimbs look like those of hadrosaurids and Iguanodon. I was very surprised to notice that of the "gazelles of the Mesozoic" so mislabelled by comparison to Hypsilophodon and Dryosaurus. But different locomotory tendencies within the smaller size ranges is exactly the observation of herbivorous, erect limbed mammals today. Thescelosaurus was plausibly semiaquatic and some of those North Ameican ornithopods were burrowers like oreodonts.)

Small tyrannosaur relatives for example Tanycolagreus, Guanlong, Dilong and Raptorex could be definitively cursorial. Yutyrannus was not markedly so and even Dryptosaurus was not especially built as a gracile persuit predator. In total Tyrannosauroidea was primitively cursorial with tendencies (not just once) to switch to ambush predation and gigantism unless the aforementioned cursors were not a grade of basal tyrannosauroids, as only Raptorex is a definite tyrannosauroid.
Edited by kusanagi, Aug 1 2017, 08:23 AM.
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dino-ken
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Well - any estimates regarding mass and speed of prehistoric animals is subject to debate. this is specially true with prehistoric animals which been extinct for more than 65 million years.

Truth is - If we could take a time machine back to Late Cretaceous - we would likely be seeing dinosaurs, pterosaurs, and other creatures of that era doing things which no paleonotogist would guess these creatures could do.

So the speculation that T.rex was too heavy to run - is just that - PURE speculation. A real adult T,rex would likely surprise many paleontologists at how fast it could actually move. Still no matter what you call it (a fast walk, a trot, a jog, or a sprint) - I do believe that T.rex was very capable of catching it's prey.
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Tartarus
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I'm quite skeptical of the "T-rex couldn't run" claim. It is a claim that has been made many times before and seems to be based on the assumption that a multi-tonne animal should not be able to run simply because its "too heavy" to do so. Never mind numerous studies in theropod biomechanics that tell a very different story- namely that multi-tonne theropods, including T-rex, most certainly could run.
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LittleLazyLass
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...but this is based on a biomechanical study.
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Nyarlathotep
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I think that just shows the contrast in different studies between the two. A 12.3m, 8.4 tonne animal like Sue would obviously not be the fastest animals on the planet, but they did have plenty of adaptions to counter this. And elephants, which lack many of the adaptions can run deceptively fast, so u don't see why it's impossible.
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IIGSY
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Nyarlathotep
Aug 8 2017, 10:32 AM
I think that just shows the contrast in different studies between the two. A 12.3m, 8.4 tonne animal like Sue would obviously not be the fastest animals on the planet, but they did have plenty of adaptions to counter this. And elephants, which lack many of the adaptions can run deceptively fast, so u don't see why it's impossible.
Tyrannosaurus and elephants can't run, but they can walk fast. Running, by definition, requires both feet to be off the ground at some point.
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Aug 8 2017, 12:30 PM
Nyarlathotep
Aug 8 2017, 10:32 AM
I think that just shows the contrast in different studies between the two. A 12.3m, 8.4 tonne animal like Sue would obviously not be the fastest animals on the planet, but they did have plenty of adaptions to counter this. And elephants, which lack many of the adaptions can run deceptively fast, so u don't see why it's impossible.
Tyrannosaurus and elephants can't run, but they can walk fast. Running, by definition, requires both feet to be off the ground at some point.
if I'm being pursued by an angry/hungry multi-tonne animal, I neither know nor care how many feet are off the ground at any time.
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Apparently the study of T-rex supposedly not being able to run is Sellers et al, 2017, Investigating the running abilities of Tyrannosaurus rex using stress-constrained multibody dynamic analysis.
The study has a number of problems with it that the various articles praising it seem to not notice (or conveniently choose to overlook?). For example, their model poses T-rex's legs in a columnar manner that is not quite how the legs would have actually been posed. The anterior torso also seems to be a bit deeper than it should be. They also don't seem to take into account factors such as soft tissue structures reducing stress on the limb bones and reduction in gait width (one foot going in front of the other when moving). Examples like these throw doubt on the validity of the study's conclusions.

I find it a bit annoying how often pop science articles will refer to some new study or discovery or something as totally changing what we thought we knew about something without stopping for a second to consider things like "hang on, how reliable is this? Perhaps we should look into it a bit deeper before claiming it as revolutionary". Revolutionary new ideas can and do happen from time to time but we must always be cautious not to be to quick to jump onto bandwagons.
The idea that T-rex couldn't run is not a new one. It is an idea that has popped up time and time again and every time it never quite manages to argue its case all that well.
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Rodlox
Aug 8 2017, 02:33 PM
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Aug 8 2017, 12:30 PM
Nyarlathotep
Aug 8 2017, 10:32 AM
I think that just shows the contrast in different studies between the two. A 12.3m, 8.4 tonne animal like Sue would obviously not be the fastest animals on the planet, but they did have plenty of adaptions to counter this. And elephants, which lack many of the adaptions can run deceptively fast, so u don't see why it's impossible.
Tyrannosaurus and elephants can't run, but they can walk fast. Running, by definition, requires both feet to be off the ground at some point.
if I'm being pursued by an angry/hungry multi-tonne animal, I neither know nor care how many feet are off the ground at any time.
That doesn't prove anything. They can move fast, but they technically can't run
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
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Rodlox
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Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Aug 8 2017, 08:25 PM
Rodlox
Aug 8 2017, 02:33 PM
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Aug 8 2017, 12:30 PM
Nyarlathotep
Aug 8 2017, 10:32 AM
I think that just shows the contrast in different studies between the two. A 12.3m, 8.4 tonne animal like Sue would obviously not be the fastest animals on the planet, but they did have plenty of adaptions to counter this. And elephants, which lack many of the adaptions can run deceptively fast, so u don't see why it's impossible.
Tyrannosaurus and elephants can't run, but they can walk fast. Running, by definition, requires both feet to be off the ground at some point.
if I'm being pursued by an angry/hungry multi-tonne animal, I neither know nor care how many feet are off the ground at any time.
That doesn't prove anything. They can move fast, but they technically can't run
so? if I'm being chased, I'm not going to yell "HELP, THERE'S A T.REX WALKING BEHIND ME!"

no, I'm going to yell "HELP, THERE'S A T.REX RUNNING AFTER ME!"
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